tiggerkiddo
Member
This is why I always buy physical copies. Can't stand buying only digital titles. I only do it if digital is the only medium the game came out on. Even then, I'm hesitant.
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The days of owning games are coming to an end
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The glaring contradiction in your post is bolded. How incredibly myopic.
Look at books: they have proliferated to the point that many of them have so many copies they will never be lost unlike past works of which the sole copy has been destroyed.
Your future scenario basically would leave the door open for more "art" (not that games are art) to be lost in future where its all "in the cloud" when the servers fail.
renegade_dewitt
Member
This! Exactly what I was thinking, until the day when downloading becomes as convenient as installing from CDs, I am keeping my physical collection close at hand. Try and get me EA!
My days of owning EA games came to an end years ago.
I'm still a fan of physical games. Probably because I grew up on a lot of second hand stuff which was only possible with physical items so I've come to appreciate it. Also a mother who basically doesn't trust digital good helped to paint my mindset when it comes to the matter. If something is super cheap I don't mind it, hence buying a few games off of Steam but for the most part recent purchases have still been physical. Even New Leaf, which I was temped to get as digital, ended up still being physical.
I'm still a fan of physical games. Probably because I grew up on a lot of second hand stuff which was only possible with physical items so I've come to appreciate it. Also a mother who basically doesn't trust digital good helped to paint my mindset when it comes to the matter. If something is super cheap I don't mind it, hence buying a few games off of Steam but for the most part recent purchases have still been physical. Even New Leaf, which I was temped to get as digital, ended up still being physical.
OmegaSmash
Member
What I'm taking from this, is that this new subscription plan is basically EA's console equivalent of Origin?
This somehow appeals to me. I am not a fan of having physical boxes at home anymore. I am content with just getting the contents, play and forget. I never was like that years ago, but I somehow changed. Maybe due to having less time during the day, being tired after work and having a girlfriend. It really is a sad state (gaming wise) I am currently in. The best thing that could happen to me would be playing preview versions of all the games I am interested in. Not really demos but let's say the first few hours of a game.
I think it's a step towards an all-digital future rather than a service future. And it's a step towards consoles no longer existing too.
If EA could sell their games directly to the consumer or as a subscription based service through a Smart TV they would do so in an instant. Once they find out how to do that, Origin will become EA's platform in which you can buy and download their games directly from them from tons of machines.
Consoles won't be needed at that point when people choose to download on their tablet, then come home and switch it to the TV. Even VR wouldn't save them.
If EA could sell their games directly to the consumer or as a subscription based service through a Smart TV they would do so in an instant. Once they find out how to do that, Origin will become EA's platform in which you can buy and download their games directly from them from tons of machines.
Consoles won't be needed at that point when people choose to download on their tablet, then come home and switch it to the TV. Even VR wouldn't save them.
test_account
XP-39C²
Console gaming did replace much of PC gaming indeed, that is true, but i'm sure that PC gaming wouldnt collapse completely if it wasnt for digital distribution. If digital distribution didnt excist, they wouldnt have any other option than to make retail copies, and people would still make games for PC.
PC retail was also never really completely dead, at least not where i live. Even today, i can see PC games at retail. The reason for this is because of exposure. This is important for every game, not just consoles. There is probably less need for exposure for PC games in comparison to console games because console games are bigger when it comes to popularity (the usually sell more than PC games). And the bigger exposure at retail is probably one of the bigger reasons why console gaming in general is bigger.
I think a huge part of why PC retail is/was going away is because of things like Steam. Generally speaking, its convenient, easy to use and the prices are good. Its the same thing with music and CDs. Today its so easy to buy music online, and the prices are also fair, at least from what i've seen.
But my main point is simply that Steam didnt do anything to keep physical games on the market. Steam did quite the opposite, in my opinion. If this is a good thing or a bad thing is something that people will have different opinion about of course =)
Which DRM system(s) are you referring to that didnt allow trading by the way? I only know about Steam that prevented this early on because you needed to activate the game online. I cant remember to have seen any 3rd party service doing this in the early 2000. Consoles are not based around subscriptions either, or how do you mean?
Led_Zeppelin
Member
I have no issues with this if the price is right and the value of the games can fulfill my expectations.
I see no difference in paying $60 for Madden, $60 for FIFA, $60 fo Battefield and own them for a year and then I put other $60 for newest Madden, $60 for newest FIFA and then every 2/3 years $60 for a new Battlefield.
If I can have all those games for $30 a year, even if I don't own them, I am ok with it, like everything it is a trade off, and if EA's proposition has value I have no problems with it. I will wait though before jumping in, mostly because like every services it takes a couple of months until the provider reach an equilibrium between the content provided and the benefits of the subscription for its customers.
I see no difference in paying $60 for Madden, $60 for FIFA, $60 fo Battefield and own them for a year and then I put other $60 for newest Madden, $60 for newest FIFA and then every 2/3 years $60 for a new Battlefield.
If I can have all those games for $30 a year, even if I don't own them, I am ok with it, like everything it is a trade off, and if EA's proposition has value I have no problems with it. I will wait though before jumping in, mostly because like every services it takes a couple of months until the provider reach an equilibrium between the content provided and the benefits of the subscription for its customers.
UncleSporky
Member
I think we can still count on Nintendo for physical games for the foreseeable future. Yeah, they've embraced digital recently, but I think they're going to be in stores for as long as possible, and may be the last people there if need be.
I feel like pulling your product out of brick and mortar, even in this day and age, is a minor suicide. You need eyeballs seeing your presence everywhere. Imagine going to a department store and seeing only one game console represented on the shelves.
I feel like pulling your product out of brick and mortar, even in this day and age, is a minor suicide. You need eyeballs seeing your presence everywhere. Imagine going to a department store and seeing only one game console represented on the shelves.
SmashN'Grab
Member
It is the way things are going, I'm afraid. I own several hundred games across PC, Xbox One, Xbox 360, PS3, Wii, Vita, 3DS and iPad. The vast majority of them are digital (like 95%+). I spent far more than I should have amassing them, and now I'm left with no time at all to play them, really. And as the years go by, I've less and less time.
So sure, paying a subscription fee à la Netflix to just play games intermittently over the next few decades, and never having to 'buy' any games again, suits me. I barely have time to watch blu-rays anymore, and haven't bought one in around 3 years. At one time, I had amassed a collection of dvds and blu-rays that was several hundred strong. Netflix changed my viewing (and spending) habits completely, and I imagine this type of thing will do the same for games.
So sure, paying a subscription fee à la Netflix to just play games intermittently over the next few decades, and never having to 'buy' any games again, suits me. I barely have time to watch blu-rays anymore, and haven't bought one in around 3 years. At one time, I had amassed a collection of dvds and blu-rays that was several hundred strong. Netflix changed my viewing (and spending) habits completely, and I imagine this type of thing will do the same for games.
I really don't care. As it was last gen I spent thousands on games, played through most of them once and ever since they collected dust. This gen I'm digital only and buy everything day 1, play it through once and then it just sits there in my ever growing library. I never touched the original Xbox again after the 360 came out and same for the 360 after X1 was launched. Same for Steam. Yes, I still have access to each and every one of those 400 games I bought. But if it suddenly disappeared I wouldn't care because frankly I don't use that stuff anymore. I'm ok if I get a good hour of entertainment for each $5 I spend on a game. That's about the same I'm willing to pay for a movie. Truth is there is so much stuff coming out in games, television, books that I just don't have the time to revisit something. So since you can't resell digital content I'm fine with games as a service. It will make things so much cheaper for me.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
As long as DRM free services like GOG exist, I won't be too concerned about that since they cannot take my games away like Steam can.
Wind's Howling
Member
I do not see this happen when the average broadband speed in the majority of the world still lingers around the 20-30mb/s (bits, not bytes) and games become increasingly bigger with each passing generation.
I highly doubt people want to wait 6 hours before their download is complete in order to actually play the game. That is like going in the cinema for your favorite movie and having 50 minutes worth of trailers before it actually begins.
I highly doubt people want to wait 6 hours before their download is complete in order to actually play the game. That is like going in the cinema for your favorite movie and having 50 minutes worth of trailers before it actually begins.
I really don't understand this "physical games are immortal" thing. I bought Heroes of Might & Magic VI for 40€, which lasted about 2 months before the disc became corrupted. Haven't bought a single physical game after that. Only problem with Steam games I've ever had was Worms:subtitle not working on the first week before it was patched and I believe Steam has universally removed 0 games so far.
Edit: Yes, there's the theoretical chance of Valve going crazy and completely destroying their company by "taking away my games from Steam" but it's a lot slimmer chance than DVD and Blu-Ray discs being corrupted. Companies follow the money and removing a single game from Steam library would basically doom their entire business.
Edit: Yes, there's the theoretical chance of Valve going crazy and completely destroying their company by "taking away my games from Steam" but it's a lot slimmer chance than DVD and Blu-Ray discs being corrupted. Companies follow the money and removing a single game from Steam library would basically doom their entire business.
DryvBy
Member
I'm never going digital-only. Rough times ahead.
SmashN'Grab
Member
Steam has in fact done this, the publisher of Order of War: Challenge (Square Enix) actually went in to everyone's account who owned the game and removed it from their libraries. So there's precedent.
Emulated Hype
Member
It's probably going to be a mess tbh. If this program is successful every publisher under the sun is going to dive in head first.
You'll get one that dabbles with subscription exclusives (see: Netflix, network television) & then that's when the tides will shift. This isn't tinfoil hat stuff, we were heading this direction since before the XBO unveiling, the 180s were more a detour on a bumpy road. Publishers want away from physical media & the used game market, this is their out.
In the meantime I've been avoiding EA's ecosystem for other reasons, so it's easy for me to not be enamored by what they're offering.
You'll get one that dabbles with subscription exclusives (see: Netflix, network television) & then that's when the tides will shift. This isn't tinfoil hat stuff, we were heading this direction since before the XBO unveiling, the 180s were more a detour on a bumpy road. Publishers want away from physical media & the used game market, this is their out.
In the meantime I've been avoiding EA's ecosystem for other reasons, so it's easy for me to not be enamored by what they're offering.
That's what annoys me most, videogames are in a unique position to learn from the mistakes of other media.
They know about masterpieces being painted over.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...6999/Top-five-long-lost-art-masterpieces.html
They know the majority of early silent movies have been lost forever.
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/dec/04/american-silent-films-lost-forever
They've seen TV companies do things like taping over old episodes of Doctor Who because they thought nobody would be interested in it.
Videogames should be different but instead of making mistakes out of ignorance they're wilfully making them disposable.
We're not far from that now, there was 30 minutes of adverts and trailers the last time I made the mistake of going to the cinema.
thatsthejoke.jpg?
We're there already. Ive seen 50 minutes of pre-screening ads with about 4 trailers before the second Sherlock Holmes film a couple of years ago.
Wind's Howling
Member
KarneeKarnay
Member
I think you've not understood what I've put down. I'm trying to see it from both sides. There will always be a risk that a server could fail and you lose them forever. I think that this is highly unlikely, but it is a possibility. I for one welcome the cloud. I think digital is the way to go.
This was at Hoyts in Australia, for reference.
I understood completely what you were arguing, but your conclusion and reasoning are incongruous. If you only have one copy (as per many paintings, works of arts) then its incredibly easy to lose them forever. When media such as books, music, games etc can be widely distributed, the safest way to ensure their survival is to distribute them wildly - not cut them back to cloud control.
Personally I think it's already far too late for physical media. Microsoft was so close to implementing online permanently, but someone will eventually succeed and it will become mainstream.
Between apathetic/impulsive consumers, companies realizing games are making big money, and recent developments like DLC/F2P/early access/online drm, companies will continue to divide and conquer endlessly.
They will continue until they can successfully make consumers re-purchase every experience, every year in piecemeal, all while ensuring you have no control over it at all. It's just a result of capitalism techniques and gaming gaining traction with the world.
It's not something I want for the future for games and I feel sorry for kids growing up that won't be able to re-live things because companies decided to pull the plug on their games, but ultimately no one can really stop the insatiable lust of bored consumers.
Hackers can only do so much to keep games playable, and sometime in the future it will become flat out impossible because everything will be a thin-client and/or too complicated to emulate. People that understand this number in the few, while the average consumer count grows by the thousand each day.
My only hope is that some where along the line, crowd-funding overtakes AAA and the biggest titles are no longer under the thumb of executives who don't care about games. Well, that is assuming the corporations don't start abusing crowd-funding and it ends up in the same place.
Between apathetic/impulsive consumers, companies realizing games are making big money, and recent developments like DLC/F2P/early access/online drm, companies will continue to divide and conquer endlessly.
They will continue until they can successfully make consumers re-purchase every experience, every year in piecemeal, all while ensuring you have no control over it at all. It's just a result of capitalism techniques and gaming gaining traction with the world.
It's not something I want for the future for games and I feel sorry for kids growing up that won't be able to re-live things because companies decided to pull the plug on their games, but ultimately no one can really stop the insatiable lust of bored consumers.
Hackers can only do so much to keep games playable, and sometime in the future it will become flat out impossible because everything will be a thin-client and/or too complicated to emulate. People that understand this number in the few, while the average consumer count grows by the thousand each day.
My only hope is that some where along the line, crowd-funding overtakes AAA and the biggest titles are no longer under the thumb of executives who don't care about games. Well, that is assuming the corporations don't start abusing crowd-funding and it ends up in the same place.
RPGCrazied
Member
The day all digital is the only way to play games, then I stop playing new games. Its disc/box or nothing with me. Unless its an $15 indie game. Bad enough manuals are gone, miss those! But I won't take an all digital future.
Once upon a time I was all about building a dvd collection. Just all of my favorite movies that I know I'd watch time and time again in case I was ever without an internet connection.
Then I realized we live in the 21st century and I will probably never be without an internet connection. Once this really settled in I realized how much I could actually save by subscribing to services like netflix, which offers way more content at a much cheaper price. Same with services like Spotify, I used to love buying albums - no more. And I couldn't be happier.
Should the payment models become unreasonable I will be the first one to complain about it. And if the apocalypse did happen and I was left without access to the internet I suppose I will just have to find a new hobby. Which wouldn't be the worst thing.
The backwards compatibility thing is kind of a bitch though but that's why I do the majority of my gaming on pc.
Then I realized we live in the 21st century and I will probably never be without an internet connection. Once this really settled in I realized how much I could actually save by subscribing to services like netflix, which offers way more content at a much cheaper price. Same with services like Spotify, I used to love buying albums - no more. And I couldn't be happier.
Should the payment models become unreasonable I will be the first one to complain about it. And if the apocalypse did happen and I was left without access to the internet I suppose I will just have to find a new hobby. Which wouldn't be the worst thing.
The backwards compatibility thing is kind of a bitch though but that's why I do the majority of my gaming on pc.
Well, we do have GOG and Humble Store for PC.
PC retail was going away long before Steam, the way I see it PC digital is thriving today precisely because PC retail slowed down in the mid '00s. I don't think the platform would have seen a resurgence like it's seeing today without it, retail was just too cumbersome, fractured and expensive for it to thrive again. I agree that Steam isn't doing anything to keep physical markets active, I'm just saying it's successful due to PC retail slowing down over 10 years ago. It ignored it and did it's own thing, and funnily enough digital can be pretty damn good without being hamstrung by retailers.
Regarding the DRM I'm talking about SecuRom, Tages, GFWL and StarForce, and serial codes with online verification. They had terrible aspects like install limitations and system instability, they would exit your entire fucking game if you had shit like daemon tools lite installed. They were retail based a million times worse than Steam or Origin. And regarding the subscriptions, I mean the console online services being structured around them, XBL Gold and PSN with their online multiplayer and best deals paywalled. And worst yet, your 'free' games being paywalled as well. I'm not a fan of those practices being prevalent in a digital environment.
PapaJustify
Member
I'd embrace that, but then games have to drop in price or alternative models have to be developed (like EA's subscription for example).
IAmRandom31
Banned
Ding Ding
Companies can try these types of things, but if the consumer market rejects it. Guess what, it no longer exists.
Last night I fired up my Sega CD and I had a good time playing a game that I haven't played in 10 years and that has never been released on another platform. Even if there was a digital version, there is nothing quite like holding the Genesis controller in your hands that works perfectly since the day you bought it in 1991. I have a Steam account and download some console games but it's just a different feeling.
Years ago I ripped all of my CDs to a hard drive. I enjoy Pandora and Spotify but I like knowing that I can listen to that old obscure album that I love at any time I want. Same goes for a few classic DVDs and Blurays like Fight Club and Die Hard.
I understand the new business models and the potential convenience offered but as a consumer I see a lot of drawbacks. Net-net, for me, I prefer to have a physical copy that I can keep and play in the future because that offers me the most long term value.
Years ago I ripped all of my CDs to a hard drive. I enjoy Pandora and Spotify but I like knowing that I can listen to that old obscure album that I love at any time I want. Same goes for a few classic DVDs and Blurays like Fight Club and Die Hard.
I understand the new business models and the potential convenience offered but as a consumer I see a lot of drawbacks. Net-net, for me, I prefer to have a physical copy that I can keep and play in the future because that offers me the most long term value.
Wait, is the XBL marketplace separate for each platform? I mostly have experience with PSN where it is one big store for all platforms.
EL CUCO
Member
This is basically MS partnering up with EA to offer a program "comparable" to that of PS+, only with less value and higher cost.
Imo, this is also telling me that MS is having a tough time matching the quality of service that PS+ offers, whether it be games or range of platforms.
This would essentially be a win, win, for both EA and MS since I'd imagine you wouldn't be able to have this subscription with out having XBL.
No thanks.
Imo, this is also telling me that MS is having a tough time matching the quality of service that PS+ offers, whether it be games or range of platforms.
This would essentially be a win, win, for both EA and MS since I'd imagine you wouldn't be able to have this subscription with out having XBL.
No thanks.
Is it sad that I don't feel like I've owned my games for a while?
I have access, or rather a license, to play these games whilst always adhering to the owner's ToS. The content is the property of someone else; I'm just paying to join the ride.
It's not right, or maybe not entirely how it is, but that's how console gaming feels to me. Through in online servers and you're really at the whim of publishers/developers.
I have access, or rather a license, to play these games whilst always adhering to the owner's ToS. The content is the property of someone else; I'm just paying to join the ride.
It's not right, or maybe not entirely how it is, but that's how console gaming feels to me. Through in online servers and you're really at the whim of publishers/developers.
I am now all digital on Xbox One/PS4/Vita.
Although I love the convenience of digital I am still deeply uneasy about what happens "when the servers go down".
It will have minor impact on my collection when it happens on 360 and PS3. Who knows when this will happen but I'd like to think its a long way off yet. But the fact the DLC/XBLA servers are gone for the original Xbox already is concerning.
When it happens for PS4 and Xbox One however it will be an enormous impact. My entire library not able to be redownloaded.
But whenever I think about it more rationally, the real world impact on me is unlikely to be significantly worse than if I had a physical collection.
1) When the servers do go down I'll still have the games installed. Yes one accident could permanently wipe a game but one accident can destroy a physical game too. Also, Xbox One already lets you back up to external disk and PS4 likely will in the end too.
2) Games are moving towards connected features and vast downloadable content more and more. Even having a physical copy won't save you from when the servers for these go down.
3) Hacking/piracy/emulation will probably be able to provide a solution anyway if all else fails.
4) My life gets busier every year, as well as being caught up with new games of the time. I'd image this is the case for most of us. When the time comes, probably looking towards 2030 and beyond before this is truly an issue, that I can no longer play my PS4/Xbox One collections without extreme difficulty, will I even care? Probably not. When I picture myself in 2030 I'm not sitting around playing decades old video games. It's a nice idea to be able to keep everything forever but in reality I've spent so much time and money hoarding/preserving/backing up various media throughout my life for little to no benefit or usage in the end. Best case scenario is rare moments of nostalgia and novelty. So I've let this go of late. Life is too short. I've realized clinging to possessions is futile. Can't take it with you when you die, after all.
None the less, I remain uneasy. Although I'm convinced it won't matter to me when it happens in a decade or more, it's still scary to think about now.
Although I love the convenience of digital I am still deeply uneasy about what happens "when the servers go down".
It will have minor impact on my collection when it happens on 360 and PS3. Who knows when this will happen but I'd like to think its a long way off yet. But the fact the DLC/XBLA servers are gone for the original Xbox already is concerning.
When it happens for PS4 and Xbox One however it will be an enormous impact. My entire library not able to be redownloaded.
But whenever I think about it more rationally, the real world impact on me is unlikely to be significantly worse than if I had a physical collection.
1) When the servers do go down I'll still have the games installed. Yes one accident could permanently wipe a game but one accident can destroy a physical game too. Also, Xbox One already lets you back up to external disk and PS4 likely will in the end too.
2) Games are moving towards connected features and vast downloadable content more and more. Even having a physical copy won't save you from when the servers for these go down.
3) Hacking/piracy/emulation will probably be able to provide a solution anyway if all else fails.
4) My life gets busier every year, as well as being caught up with new games of the time. I'd image this is the case for most of us. When the time comes, probably looking towards 2030 and beyond before this is truly an issue, that I can no longer play my PS4/Xbox One collections without extreme difficulty, will I even care? Probably not. When I picture myself in 2030 I'm not sitting around playing decades old video games. It's a nice idea to be able to keep everything forever but in reality I've spent so much time and money hoarding/preserving/backing up various media throughout my life for little to no benefit or usage in the end. Best case scenario is rare moments of nostalgia and novelty. So I've let this go of late. Life is too short. I've realized clinging to possessions is futile. Can't take it with you when you die, after all.
None the less, I remain uneasy. Although I'm convinced it won't matter to me when it happens in a decade or more, it's still scary to think about now.
WarMacheen
Member
When games as a service becomes the norm, I'm done with gaming.
UncleSporky
Member
Are you just talking about the semantics of whether you really own the content you buy, or are you saying that the all-digital future is here and nobody will buy physical moving forward?
Because the days of owning games are most definitely still here, according to some of the more common definitions. Today is a day and I own a physical disc of Mario Kart 8.
Majukun
Member
as always it's all in the hands (and wallets) of the gamers..the industry goes were the users wants it to go..we made them clear with the whole xbox one debacle,but people are already starting forgetting again that it's the industry that needs the games to survive,gamers can survive without gaming with a little willpower...if someone is going to change idea first,it's them.