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The definition of "last generation"
- Thread starter LonelyGreyWolf
- Start date
WHAT?!?! No, generation is a term defined by TIME. It is defined as a period of time people were born into, where they share experiences. Everyone in a given generation is NOT THE SAME and they do not necessarily agree or have the same abilities, but they go through the same time period TOGETHER.
Wii U is a next generation console because it will share time with the next generation Xbox and Playstation. Technology has nothing to do with it!
ElRenoRaven
Member
Well his escape clause is right. If their power was on par then yes it would be. However Microsoft and Sony are not going to put out something that is equal or just a hair above what they currently have.
You know, I think you've got the right attitude here.
Mama Robotnik
Member
For those including the Wii U in the current gen alongside the PS3, 360 and Wii (even though it isn't out yet)...
What is the exact increase in capability, to the nearest hertz if you will, that will make the console transcend from current gen to next gen? As its so clear cut to you that Wii U is present gen, surely this question is a doddle, right?
Or could it be that people invent arbitrary nonspecific thresholds of capability that conveniently exclude and include certain companies' hardware from a nebulous and utterly vaguely defined umbrella of "next gen", rather than just accept the fact that its a measure of time and nothing more?
Inane example: Someone could think that advances in controllers are the true gamers definition of next-gen. Assuming that the 720 and PS4 have comparable controllers to their current generation efforts, and no screens like the Wii U, they can assert using the same logic being applied in this thread that Wii U is next-gen, and the 720/PS4 are last gen.
Its completely bollocks, of course.
What is the exact increase in capability, to the nearest hertz if you will, that will make the console transcend from current gen to next gen? As its so clear cut to you that Wii U is present gen, surely this question is a doddle, right?
Or could it be that people invent arbitrary nonspecific thresholds of capability that conveniently exclude and include certain companies' hardware from a nebulous and utterly vaguely defined umbrella of "next gen", rather than just accept the fact that its a measure of time and nothing more?
Inane example: Someone could think that advances in controllers are the true gamers definition of next-gen. Assuming that the 720 and PS4 have comparable controllers to their current generation efforts, and no screens like the Wii U, they can assert using the same logic being applied in this thread that Wii U is next-gen, and the 720/PS4 are last gen.
Its completely bollocks, of course.
tkscz
Member
How is this still an argument? Generation is time based, not hardware based. If going by that logic, the Gamecube and Xbox would be in a different generation than the DreamCast and PS2. Hardware doesn't make the generation, time does.
Understandable, I don't agree with it, but it makes logical since.
Understandable, I don't agree with it, but it makes logical since.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Wut the world?? Y u defeat urself?
LOL!ps4 is the next gen sony console
720 is next gen microsoft console
They all 3 are next gen consoles
Its that simple..
Specifically, generation is to do with being a successor. As the WiiU succeeds the Wii, it is next generation.
Neither "Next" nor "Generation" have anything within them that relates to power.
And heck, if they do, anyone arguing as such should answer Mama Robotnik's question. Although I suspect it will be ignored.
Neither "Next" nor "Generation" have anything within them that relates to power.
And heck, if they do, anyone arguing as such should answer Mama Robotnik's question. Although I suspect it will be ignored.
just a typical customer seeing something and saying "thats next gen" would be a good start....? you dont have to be a hardware geek.
when the 360 got released and gears of war was showing no one was questioning if it was next gen!
same with yearly sports games.there is no comparison between this gen and last gen.
everyone undestants the difference!
you can give a gamer that doesn't care of gfx a copy of fifa 2002 and tell him that its current gen.he will still understand the difference and say: "no,this is running on old technology"
even if the controller is different
its not "bollocks"
just a typical customer seeing something and saying "thats next gen" would be a good start....? you dont have to be a hardware geek.
when the 360 got released and gears of war was showing no one was questioning if it was next gen!
same with yearly sports games.there is no comparison between this gen and last gen.
everyone undestants the difference!
you can give a gamer that doesn't care of gfx a copy of fifa 2002 and tell him that its current gen.he will still understand the difference and say: "no,this is running on old technology"
even if the controller is different
its not "bollocks"
Ah, so you can't give an answer then? Rightio.
I can't tell if you are being serious or just being intentionally dim for the sake of trolling. Some of the hyperbole here is just ridiculous. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean Wii U is not current gen hardware.
below = hardware
- each company has different pack-ins and marketing. nintendo just sells the standard controller as accessory.
nothing bad with that.
its all simple.
That is all pretty different from the example you gave above, and still can't be accomplished for less than $500. Also to a much lesser effect. It is being released around the same time as the 8th generation consoles, and offering new ways to play alongside slightly beefier hardware, and even more expensive options from competitors can't act in the same way(smart glass's lack of buttons and Vita/PS3's reported lag time and sparse support).
Actually I no longer have a Wii U preorder and am instead using that money to beef my pc a little more (Edit: If anyone has a suggestion for a good 27" monitor too I'd be happy to hear it
). That has nothing to do with it. Some people think hardware means gpu, cpu, and RAM, and refuse to think that anything else factors in. Nintendo is selling a box that does things that others are not capable of right now, as a successor to its 7th gen console, just before other 8th gen consoles launch. Even from a pure graphical perspective I wouldn't be surprised if we see games in the next 2 years that reasonably surpass what was possible on PS360.no i gave an answer.
a ggod start would be a typical buyer thats not a geek immediatly understanding the difference.
and i assure you,gamers that only play sports games and have no ieda of "mhz" and shaders" know the wii as "old" and the ps360 as "current"
the wiiu will be "current".
tkscz
Member
just a typical customer seeing something and saying "thats next gen" would be a good start....? you dont have to be a hardware geek.
when the 360 got released and gears of war was showing no one was questioning if it was next gen!
same with yearly sports games.there is no comparison between this gen and last gen.
everyone undestants the difference!
you can give a gamer that doesn't care of gfx a copy of fifa 2002 and tell him that its current gen.he will still understand the difference and say: "no,this is running on old technology"
even if the controller is different
its not "bollocks"
Yes, it is bollocks. Again, using the last generation as an example. The Gamecube and Xbox could do SO many more things graphically than the PS2 and DreamCast, and yet all four of them are one generation (Generation 6).
The Wii doesn't even come close to the PS360, yet they are the same generation (Generation 7).
The 3DS can't compare power wise, to the Vita, and yet thet are both the same generation of handhelds (Generaiton 8).
Generation is successor/time based. Not power based.
Even bigger example, Graphic cards. The nVidia 610 is apart of the new generation of GPU's from Nvidia, but it's still a shit ton weaker than the GTX 560 and it's the previous generation. Hell, it's weaker than the GTX 460, and that's two gens before it.
so the price determines gens?
if sony went crazy and did a stock clearance and you could get a box with (ps3+vita) for 20$ then they would be next gen along with wiiu.
just rebrand it as ps4 and save money from r&d
The way I see it...
The PS3 will be last gen whenever the PS4 gets released.
The 360 will be last gen whenever the 720 gets released.
The Wii will be last gen whenever the WiiU gets released.
The 3DS and Vita are also current gen when it comes to each hardware, and also when it comes to the overall handhel gen.
The same thing for 720, PS4 and WiiU, we will be fully on "current gen" (or next gen for those who are not aware that there's also a present not just future and past) whenever all consoles get released. Until then we'll be stuck in-between.
The PS3 will be last gen whenever the PS4 gets released.
The 360 will be last gen whenever the 720 gets released.
The Wii will be last gen whenever the WiiU gets released.
The 3DS and Vita are also current gen when it comes to each hardware, and also when it comes to the overall handhel gen.
The same thing for 720, PS4 and WiiU, we will be fully on "current gen" (or next gen for those who are not aware that there's also a present not just future and past) whenever all consoles get released. Until then we'll be stuck in-between.
so wiiu is next-gen in name only.
and only because noone bothered to specify what next gen is.
thats all i got from this thread.
Why do you come up with such shitty examples? Your horrible example is not in any way comparable to Wii U.
Should have stayed in school
You got it backwards. Period of time was created to gather people which had the same values and were alike. It's same way why you call some people old fashioned now. Because their habits and their living culture looks like from past generation.
I think whats decided that Wii U is current gen was the same thing why people think Wii is last gen. Games. Currently showed games are just like current games. More than that most of them not even look better than exclusives from ps3 or X360.
As of Wii U controller. Controller was never any indication of next gen. Same as Eye Tool wasn't proof that PS2 was next gen.
If Wii U will end like Wii meaning whole industry will release X360/PS3 games on it and not PS4 and X720 games thet this will be final proof that Wii U is current gen as Wii was last gen.
No, "next generation" is specified as "next generation". Those are words, and they have actual tangible meanings.
why its a shitty example??
if i do exactly what i wrote,will that be a next gen console?
yes or no
some believe yes others say no.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Nope.
Generation has never been associated with power - its meaning really is just time - as in the next or the one that proceeds it.
I mean, with that logic, PS2 doesn't belong in DC/GC/XBox generation.
BibiMaghoo
Member
By definition, the next gen is the 8th gen. WiiU is 8th gen, and so is next gen, regardless of power.
This has been muddied by pc.
Technically, pc is part of no video game gen. Pc gamers have often described their position in this video game gen, as 'next gen'
This is simply incorrect, and has confused matters by linking a gen to power.
Pc has generations of video cards, but no video game gens in the same way as consoles.
A gen is only defined by the current series of platforms released by all parties. Next gen is when they are released again.
Personally. Next gen only exists when ALL platforms have been released, but begins with the first. This position is up for debate though, as not everyone agrees.
This has been muddied by pc.
Technically, pc is part of no video game gen. Pc gamers have often described their position in this video game gen, as 'next gen'
This is simply incorrect, and has confused matters by linking a gen to power.
Pc has generations of video cards, but no video game gens in the same way as consoles.
A gen is only defined by the current series of platforms released by all parties. Next gen is when they are released again.
Personally. Next gen only exists when ALL platforms have been released, but begins with the first. This position is up for debate though, as not everyone agrees.
Lol come on now you know that's not even close to what I was saying. You chose to compare multiple items to one item, not me. I'm just wondering why a touch screen controller with 1/60th second lag time coupled with modestly more powerful hardware makes the Wii U in the same gen as the PS3 or 360 alone?
Technically yes, if this is what Sony releases as their PS4, it would be their 8th gen console, though examples like that are irrelevant considering there isn't any basis in reality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
mclaren777
Member
Couldn't agree more. I'm surprised that so many people think it's next-gen.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
How silly to be trying to justify a consoles generation then. Go keep upgrading your PC every 6 months. You dun goofed
wii u might be considered half step when compared to the wii but it has taken not that many steps when compared with the PS3 or 360
BibiMaghoo
Member
Because it is an indisputable fact, that WiiU is 8th gen, and so is next gen.
You are defining a gen by power, which is incorrect.
You're right since the "next gen" already started with 3DS and Vita and thus "next gen" is current gen now. Today, PS3, Wii, PSP, 360 and DS are already last gen.
mclaren777
Member
Please make a case for why it's incorrect. I'm curious to see this argument.
tkscz
Member
Ok let's go by power for generation separation, starting with the 3rd generation.
Before I start though let me say, that I am not trolling anyone, nor am I calling people with this logic stupid by any means, this is just how I see it when they say generation is defind by hardware.
This gen had many consoles, of them were the Atari 7800, the NES, and the Sega Master system (Not including the PC based Amega and Commador 64). The Atari 7800 was released a few years before the NES, but the two are close in power. The Master System, on the other hand, could produce better graphics than the both of them, putting it in a generation of it's own. So the 4th generation is actually the Master System.
Then the 5th generation would be the Sega Genesis, and the SNES, with the Atari Jaguar being in a generation of it's own, being a power jump above the other two, making it the 6th generation.
Then the 7th generation would be the PS1 and the Saturn, but the N64 was much more powerful than both of those, producing games like Conker's Bad Fur Day and Banjo Tooie. So it would be Generation 8.
Then the DreamCast, PS2, Gamecube and XBox would be Generation 9, but the DC and PS2 can't produce the type of shaders the GC and XB can, so they are a generation behind them and would make the GC and XB Generation 10.
Now we reach present time. With the Wii, PS3, and 360. The Wii is obviously under powered compared to the PS3 and 360, but uses much better hardware than the XB and GC, so the Wii is alone in Generation 11 and the PS360 are in Generation 12.
This is why I don't separate by hardware.
This argument is never ending if pursued in this. If based on graphical capabilities, how do you determine how much more powerful a console has to be for it to be next gen? If based on time, how much time has to pass before it is considered next gen?
BibiMaghoo
Member
A gen has never been defined by power. Show me a case where a console that has exceeded its rivals in power within the same competing timeframe that has been next gen at the time.
Was the n64 a gen above ps1 ?
Or the 3do being 6th gen?
By saying the WiiU is current gen, you are basing it on power. This has never been the case. Unless you can give me an example?
Then why is it when the industry announced a title for next gen consoles it never included the Wii?
I like this post. It's sensible.
we have a current state of technology on this planet.
different for smartphones.
different for cars.
different for handheld consoles
and different state of technology for home consoles.
when something gets announced on the market that's above the current standard of technology in the home-consoles-market,it will be labeled next gen.
when it gets released it will become the current gen.
releasing older technology in current times, doesn't change this fact.
I can't tell if you are being serious or just being intentionally dim for the sake of trolling. Some of the hyperbole here is just ridiculous. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean Wii U is not next gen hardware.
Above = Hardware
funny enough that tablet is barely using current gen tab hardware
mclaren777
Member
Maybe I'm just weird, but I have always based console generations on relative power. This has been the case since I was a kid.
In my mind, the Gamecube and Wii are both the same generation, with the Wii U joining the PS3 and 360 as "current gen".
In my mind, the Gamecube and Wii are both the same generation, with the Wii U joining the PS3 and 360 as "current gen".
That makes perfect sense and so does another way of looking at things : by release date.
there is a big difference in generations of technology and people
generation of technology is defined by technological advancements and shifts of the use of the technology, not time