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The Democrats are spineless and worthless in opposing Trump & the GOP

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Deepwater

Member
Democrats are convinced they are playing 11th dimension Chess against the GOP. The last 8 years the GOP got tired of the game and refused to play

After the election the GOP got tired of everything and started to burn the house down. The Democrats are still at the table trying to play chess.
 

Blader

Member
the problem with relying on republicans is that they are republicans. see: the recent HB2 repeal debacle in north carolina. they, unlike democrats, snap into line when they're told to do so by their geriatric mutant ninja turtle leader mitch mcconnell.

if a republican offers you his hand, you should spit on it.

McConnell is one of the biggest advocates for keeping the filibuster. Hell, if he wasn't, it would've been gone years ago.

I can respect that opinion. Gestures mean different things to different people. To me, as a queer-identifying person, it has symbolic meaning that my party has a unified message and is there to fight, no matter what the argument may be. Does it mean that Warren is now this corrupt dog of wallstreet? Absolutely not. Aside from Mattis, who actually needed the dem votes, it would have just been the kind of hardline stance I would like to see taken that shows that the party itself is capable of meaningful action. Just like Ellison and Perez are not corrupt for going to fundraisers instead of the Women's March. It is just an action that I am displeased with and because I respect them and trust them enough to know that they will listen to me, I am voicing my displeasure.

I understand. I would just say, re: the bolded, a hardline stance that shows the party is capable of meaningful action doesn't fly (for me) when there's no meaningful action they even have to enforce that hardline stance. On bills and SCOTUS, they have the filibuster; on cabinet picks, they don't.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I mean, what was the alternative really?

You serious here? Let them fall flat on their faces and then point to your record and say "See that mess over there? I had no hand in it.".
 

Kusagari

Member
The Republicans against the filibuster getting nuked can say it easily now.

See what happens when a Supreme Court pick is blocked and Trump blows a gasket.
 
This topic is too much. Democrats stay home for elections and now want to primary everyone.

Less political power will surely do it.

Democrats refuse to vote for a candidate they hate, and now want to primary the establishment that gave them this option.

What inconsistent purists.
 
The Republicans against the filibuster getting nuked can say it easily now.

See what happens when a Supreme Court pick is blocked and Trump blows a gasket.

Right, but in that scenario Democrats would be obstructionist, which is what people in this thread have been wanting.

I can see the filibuster being removed for SCOTUS nominees, can't see it being removed for legislation. I think both are actually somewhat unlikely.
 

Blader

Member
The Republicans against the filibuster getting nuked can say it easily now.

See what happens when a Supreme Court pick is blocked and Trump blows a gasket.

I'd say it's more likely McConnell cajoles some red-state Dem senators than gets rid of the filibuster.
 
I assume everyone taking the time to write out posts detailing why the are not pleased with democratic senators are taking the time to call them as well, right? I'm not sure posts on neogaf.com reach them.
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
I assume everyone taking the time to write out posts detailing why the are not pleased with democratic senators are taking the time to call them as well, right? I'm not sure posts on neogaf.com reach them.

Fun story, my senators mail box is actually full so i have to literally send a letter like this is the 18th century or something. Which is fine because FuckTrump
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
I think part of the problem with the superdelegates was how the Clinton campaign and some in the media used the superdelegates early on as not so subtle propaganda. Touting huge superdelegate leads before anyone has voted is not how the superdelegates were intended to be used. It may be smart politicaly and not against the rules, but it also undermines the Democratic process and leaves a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths. That along with caucuses (which Bernie benefited from) don't do much to encourage participation. They just make a lot of people believe they don't matter.

That's exactly the problem. I know DWS asked the media to stop reporting on the numbers like that, but asking nicely does absolutely anything in the realm of politics.

It's another example of democrats ignoring the optics because if you look closer it might not actually mean anything. That sort of argument is fine to a point, but democrats recently seemed to hit a critical mass of caring too little about optics.
 

faisal233

Member
2009 Cabinet

Secretary of State: Clinton confirmed 94–2
Secretary of the Treasury: Tim Geithner confirmed 60–34
Attorney General: Eric Holder confirmed 75–21
Secretary of the Interior: Ken Salazar confirmed 100-0
Secretary of Agriculture: Tim Vilsack confirmed 100-0
Secretary of Commerce: Bill Richardson withdrew, Judd Gregg withdrawn, Gary Locke 96-0
Secretary of Labor: Hilda Solis confirmed 80-17
Secretary of Health and Human Services: Tom Daschle withdrawn, Kathleen Sebelius confirmed 65-31
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development: Shaun Donovan confirmed 71-26
Secretary of Transportation: Ray LaHood confirmed by voice vote
Secretary of Energy: Steven Chu confirmed 100-0
Secretary of Education: Arne Duncan confirmed 93-5
Secretary of Veterans Affairs: Eric Shinseki confirmed by voice vote
Secretary of Homeland Security: Janet Napolitano confirmed by voice vote


Why won't the democrats learn from the GOP???
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
zuckerberg

Zuckerberg is only the left's Trump if he ends up being even more progressive than Sanders, and ends up being way more emotionally unstable than he seems.

It's hard to understate how much Trump has become the absolute worst nightmare for the left in every single way possible.
 
2009 Cabinet

Secretary of State: Clinton confirmed 94–2
Secretary of the Treasury: Tim Geithner confirmed 60–34
Attorney General: Eric Holder confirmed 75–21
Secretary of the Interior: Ken Salazar confirmed 100-0
Secretary of Agriculture: Tim Vilsack confirmed 100-0
Secretary of Commerce: Bill Richardson withdrew, Judd Gregg withdrawn, Gary Locke 96-0
Secretary of Labor: Hilda Solis confirmed 80-17
Secretary of Health and Human Services: Tom Daschle withdrawn, Kathleen Sebelius confirmed 65-31
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development: Shaun Donovan confirmed 71-26
Secretary of Transportation: Ray LaHood confirmed by voice vote
Secretary of Energy: Steven Chu confirmed 100-0
Secretary of Education: Arne Duncan confirmed 93-5
Secretary of Veterans Affairs: Eric Shinseki confirmed by voice vote
Secretary of Homeland Security: Janet Napolitano confirmed by voice vote


Why won't the democrats learn from the GOP???

this just in from the hot takes factory: trump is a totally regular president, and it's actually cool and good to treat his presidency as a normal event.

did you actually think this was clever?
 
this just in from the hot takes factory: trump is a totally regular president, and it's actually cool and good to treat his presidency as a normal event.

did you actually think this was clever?

Have you spoken to your Senator's office today?

We're on page nine of this thread and I still don't have a clue what the Dems are supposed to do except have better messaging.

Symbolically vote "Nay" on every cabinet appointee so people can come in and complain about how they aren't really doing anything to help the disenfranchised, they're just doing it for appearances.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
I love that people in this thread think that Dems who voted in favor of Trump's appointments will be gaining any kind of leverage with Republicans. They don't give a flying fuck.

Also love the ones that think the "both sides" media will no longer use "both sides" arguments because of those votes.
 

Blader

Member
Fun story, my senators mail box is actually full so i have to literally send a letter like this is the 18th century or something. Which is fine because FuckTrump

Better to call than write. Letters and emails can be ignored; calls make life for the staffers harder, and it makes more likely for them to bring issues directly to the senator/congressperson.

this just in from the hot takes factory: trump is a totally regular president, and it's actually cool and good to treat his presidency as a normal event.

did you actually think this was clever?

Many of his cabinet choices are not that out of the ordinary for a Republican president. A lot of his crazier picks are the ones that don't need Senate confirmation.
 
Many of his cabinet choices are not that out of the ordinary for a Republican president. A lot of his crazier picks are the ones that don't need Senate confirmation.

the fact that people consider apocalyptic holy warrior mike pompeo and sleepy halfwit ben carson "pretty normal" speaks volumes
 

Jeels

Member
I dont trust Chuck Schumer. I was extremely disappointed in his selection as minority leader. I no longer have faith in the democratic party, although I do have faith in some of its leaders (Obama, Sanders, Biden, Warren, Ellison,Pelosi) but the democrats in general can screw right off. They have massively let down the American people (and the world) with their incompetence.
 

Grexeno

Member
Democrats are convinced they are playing 11th dimension Chess against the GOP. The last 8 years the GOP got tired of the game and refused to play

After the election the GOP got tired of everything and started to burn the house down. The Democrats are still at the table trying to play chess.
latest
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D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Nothing they can use a fillibuster on has come up yet.

I'm referring specifically to many of them approving Trumps ridiculous cabinet picks. While they couldn't block them, they could at least make it clear that Trump and the GOP pushed them through without any kind of unanimous support. Showing their support for terrible choices is just an awful look and makes me question their sincerity in the first place.
 
I'm conflicted because I want Dems to resist but also think purity tests are terrifying and a one way ticket to losing even more power. A Democrat that works for 50% of the things I believe in is far better than any Republican. And we should probably wait until the GOP starts attempting to pass actual legislation rather than getting angry over a bunch of votes that are ultimately meaningless because these guys are going to get confirmed anyway.

Seriously this shit scares me more for 2020 than anything. A bunch of people on the left are going to crucify anyone that worked with Trump even once, even if their policy stances are better than the "pure" candidate.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
The argument on the other side seems to be that Democratic voters demand lots of pointless signalling of opposition in order to feel like showing up for elections. And maybe that's true. But it seems to me that if the real concern is about voters perceiving Democrats as spineless even when nothing they're doing so far indicates genuine spinelessness, it's just making the problem worse to, say, title a thread about it this way.

They're being "genuine spineless" by being so afraid of center right critiques.

To be honest the problem isn't that democrats are afraid, but who they are afraid of. It seems wrong to be chiefly worried about the center right when that strategy has failed them so badly time and time again.

And you think the buck stops with thinkprogress writers, neogafers, and facebookers? Ideally every progressive stops caring about symbolism, and falls in line for voting, but that seems like a far more uphill battle to fight than getting democrats to start caring about how symbolism and optics affects their own bases.

Add Carson to the list. The man himself says he can't do the job.

I agree. Carson is definitely where they stepped over the line by not picking that to be one of their battles. Hopefully that's the last mistake along those lines, and they don't do the same for Sessions, DeVos, Price, Pruitt, and Tillerson.
 
What I'm getting from this thread is that we're fucked, no matter what we do.

Does that sound about right?

Yeah. Even if literally every democrat and independent voted nay on the confirmations it wouldn't change anything except the usual suspects would be complaining about something else.
 

royalan

Member
I'm conflicted because I want Dems to resist but also think purity tests are terrifying and a one way ticket to losing even more power. A Democrat that works for 50% of the things I believe in is far better than any Republican. And we should probably wait until the GOP starts attempting to pass actual legislation rather than getting angry over a bunch of votes that are ultimately meaningless because these guys are going to get confirmed anyway.

Seriously this shit scares me more for 2020 than anything. A bunch of people on the left are going to crucify anyone that worked with Trump even once, even if their policy stances are better than the "pure" candidate.

To be clearer, I don't advocate for ideological purity tests, either. The blessing and curse of the Democratic Party is that we're a big tent. We represent a much more diverse demographic than Republicans ever worry about, and as a party we are strongest when this is recognized.

I don't give a flying fuck if you're a hard left progressive Democrat, or a moderate, or a blue dog. I don't care if you believe in grassroots activism, or if you're more adept at appealing to the pockets of those who are no less benevolent, but have more to give than the average person. I don't care if you prefer to rage at the local level, or if you're more adept at national politics. These are all incredibly petty squabbles, when the fact of the matter is that Democrats have lost over a thousand elected seats in the last 8 years. We need more Democrats, period.

My problem with the current roster of Democrats isn't a lack of purity. My problem with this party is the lack of goddamn sense. Time and time again, Democrats stick their noses out to work with Republicans, only to get decked in the nose. Our party has been DECIMATED because Democrats tried fruitlessly, then refused to learn their lesson and tried again, to govern with a party that would rather be a cancer to our democracy than a functioning part. This current Republican party is shameless, deplorable, and they have no interest in working with Democrats. There comes a point where reaching across the aisle stops being noble and starts being fucking foolish. Democrats reached that point ages ago.

Democrats who don't get it, who refuse to get it, need to fucking go. And I don't care if you're a member of the Warren wing or the shilliest of neoliberal shills. There can be no room for dumbasses.

And if Democrats are smart, they'll realize that soon they won't have a say in the matter. See those hordes of angry liberals protesting around the country? Mark my words, if they don't start seeing action from their leadership, pretty soon they'll start looking inward.
 
Huh? This is just more meaningless chest beating by Trump. The filibuster already doesn't exist for cabinet appointments.

i don't know if i should be infuriated or delighted that people are still so foolish as to assume trump doesn't actually fucking intend to make good on the things he says.

i mean, after the last week? are you seriously making the "pff, they won't actually DO that" argument?
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
https://twitter.com/jbview/status/824613525502984192

@jbview said:
Liberal criticisms of Warren and Dems on cabinet votes may be based on a misunderstanding of the Senate

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...arren-isn-t-weak-for-backing-trump-s-nominees

That tweet sums up the elitism problem perfectly. Deflecting criticisms with "you just don't get it" isn't helping at all.

Even if these arguments are 100% technically right, it'd be nice for once not having to go through all the explanations and just do the right thing symbolically in the first place.
 

Blader

Member
i don't know if i should be infuriated or delighted that people are still so foolish as to assume trump doesn't actually fucking intend to make good on the things he says.

i mean, after the last week? are you seriously making the "pff, they won't actually DO that" argument?

Do what? The only thing stopping Sessions from becoming AG is time. He'll get through the Senate even if he doesn't have a single Democrat's vote.
 
i don't know if i should be infuriated or delighted that people are still so foolish as to assume trump doesn't actually fucking intend to make good on the things he says.

i mean, after the last week? are you seriously making the "pff, they won't actually DO that" argument?

What do you think go nuclear means in this context? Launch a nuclear strike on DC? No I don't think he's going to do that. Going nuclear normally means removing the filibuster but Harry Reid already did that for cabinet and non-SC justice appointments in 2013.
 
To be clearer, I don't advocate for ideological purity tests, either. The blessing and curse of the Democratic Party is that we're a big tent. We represent a much more diverse demographic than Republicans ever worry about, and as a party we are strongest when this is recognized.

I don't give a flying fuck if you're a hard left progressive Democrat, or a moderate, or a blue dog. I don't care if you believe in grassroots activism, or if you're more adept at appealing to the pockets of those who are no less benevolent, but have more to give than the average person. I don't care if you prefer to rage at the local level, or if you're more adept at national politics. These are all incredibly petty squabbles, when the fact of the matter is that Democrats have lost over a thousand elected seats in the last 8 years. We need more Democrats, period.

My problem with the current roster of Democrats isn't a lack of purity. My problem with this party is the lack of goddamn sense. Time and time again, Democrats stick their noses out to work with Republicans, only to get decked in the nose. Our party has been DECIMATED because Democrats tried fruitlessly, then refused to learn their lesson and tried again, to govern with a party that would rather be a cancer to our democracy than a functioning part. This current Republican party is shameless, deplorable, and they have no interest in working with Democrats. There comes a point where reaching across the aisle stops being noble and starts being fucking foolish. Democrats reached that point ages ago.

Democrats who don't get it, who refuse to get it, need to fucking go. And I don't care if you're a member of the Warren wing or the shilliest of neoliberal shills. There can be no room for dumbasses.

And if Democrats are smart, they'll realize that soon they won't have a say in the matter. See those hordes of angry liberals protesting around the country? Mark my words, if they don't start seeing action from their leadership, pretty soon they'll start looking inward.

Well said.
 
What do you think go nuclear means in this context? Launch a nuclear strike on DC? No I don't think he's going to do that. Going nuclear normally means removing the filibuster but Harry Reid already did that for cabinet and non-SC justice appointments in 2013.

correct, finish the job that that imbecile started. if trump is apoplectic over a confirmation hearing that he literally cannot lose, how do you think he (and by extension the cowards over whom he holds sway) going to act when a SC judge gets filibustered?
 

SaviourMK2

Member
I've flat out just HAD it with our elected Democrat officials. Time and time again they've proven they are not willing to hold their ground when it comes to these issues. Did John Lewis and his group even last as long as Ted Cruz when he filibustered?

To be clearer, I don't advocate for ideological purity tests, either. The blessing and curse of the Democratic Party is that we're a big tent. We represent a much more diverse demographic than Republicans ever worry about, and as a party we are strongest when this is recognized.

I don't give a flying fuck if you're a hard left progressive Democrat, or a moderate, or a blue dog. I don't care if you believe in grassroots activism, or if you're more adept at appealing to the pockets of those who are no less benevolent, but have more to give than the average person. I don't care if you prefer to rage at the local level, or if you're more adept at national politics. These are all incredibly petty squabbles, when the fact of the matter is that Democrats have lost over a thousand elected seats in the last 8 years. We need more Democrats, period.

My problem with the current roster of Democrats isn't a lack of purity. My problem with this party is the lack of goddamn sense. Time and time again, Democrats stick their noses out to work with Republicans, only to get decked in the nose. Our party has been DECIMATED because Democrats tried fruitlessly, then refused to learn their lesson and tried again, to govern with a party that would rather be a cancer to our democracy than a functioning part. This current Republican party is shameless, deplorable, and they have no interest in working with Democrats. There comes a point where reaching across the aisle stops being noble and starts being fucking foolish. Democrats reached that point ages ago.

Democrats who don't get it, who refuse to get it, need to fucking go. And I don't care if you're a member of the Warren wing or the shilliest of neoliberal shills. There can be no room for dumbasses.

And if Democrats are smart, they'll realize that soon they won't have a say in the matter. See those hordes of angry liberals protesting around the country? Mark my words, if they don't start seeing action from their leadership, pretty soon they'll start looking inward.

I love this, mind if I share it on FB?
 

ahoyhoy

Unconfirmed Member
Democrats are convinced they are playing 11th dimension Chess against the GOP. The last 8 years the GOP got tired of the game and refused to play

After the election the GOP got tired of everything and started to burn the house down. The Democrats are still at the table trying to play chess.

This is perfect.
 
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