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The first 30 fps Metroid [HELPFUL MOD EDIT] is not Samus Returns

Y'know guys, I really don't think the OP said "how could anyone possibly enjoy this game when it's only 30 fps?". But maybe I'm misremembering.

I'm inclined to agree that it's somewhat disappointing for a remake of an NES title to have half the frame-rate of the original, whatever the reasons. But I also haven't played the game yet.
 
i don't care about other games or N64 or something... it's a freaking 2D sidescroller game, i except 60 fps from it....

what a fucking strawman comparing this to n64 games...

it's not hard to understand why it's a deception for a lot of people... if i have the choice to play 60 fps, it's 60 fps all the way, like in Nioh, and i will do the same for Fire Emblem Warriors

with these kind of graphic for M returns, don't tell me 60 fps wasn't achievable, there's plenty of good looking 60 fps game on 3DS! It doesn't mean the game is bad by any means, i'm sure i'll like it, but we have the right to complain, it's not being whiny when like 95% of 2d playing games are 60 fps... and here we have 30 fps not even locked
 

beril

Member
You don't understand how it works. The 3DS doesn't have to render at 120 to display at 60... 3d isn't done by halving framerate, it rendered two 400x240 images then uses parallax barrier to display those two images to each eye separately.

There are also many games that don't allow 3d at all as well.

Well it still does render 120 individual frames per second
 
Oh, another whine thread about "30 FPS" on a fucking 2011 console.

PlayStation 2 and GameCube, both from 2000 and 2001 says "hi".

Of course, not every game was 60fps, but it showed big games could run at 60fps flawlessly. Jak & Daxter and Metroid Prime 1 and 2 were outstanding.
 

Plum

Member
Just for fun I decided to calculate how long this thread and the OT took to get to 5 pages:

OT: 16 Hours and 27 Minutes

This thread: 5 Hours and 39 Minutes

I said damn.

As for the game itself, I decided against buying it last minute but I can't imagine the 30fps would really hamper things too much if I had kept on track. Sure, it'd be great, but considering the hardware it's running on I doubt they'd have been able to get it running smoothly at all.
 

Jezan

Member
If they cant stand 30fps then they cant stand most video games...yall act like 30 is 10
Maybe yes, maybe they don't play games at 30fps,some people can be picky in that aspect.

And no, we are not acting like 30 is 10, 30 is 30 and it's not 60.
 

DVCY201

Member
Just for fun I decided to calculate how long this thread and the OT took to get to 5 pages:

OT: 16 Hours and 27 Minutes

This thread: 5 Hours and 39 Minutes

I said damn.

As for the game itself, I decided against buying it last minute but I can't imagine the 30fps would really hamper things too much if I had kept on track. Sure, it'd be great, but considering the hardware it's running on I doubt they'd have been able to get it running smoothly at all.

LOL people love to complain. Honestly, I love 60FPS, but I'd be crazy to pass on it or bitch the developers out for doing 30FPS. It's practically industry standard for 30FPS
 

SoulUnison

Banned
Are you playing on a regular 3DS/2DS? Because that's been my experience on one. All this talk about 30fps and nobody seems to mention that it's not even locked on old hardware. And in a moderately fast paced game like this, it becomes very noticeable a couple of hours into it.

Yes, an original model 3DS.
 

rjc571

Banned
LOL people love to complain. Honestly, I love 60FPS, but I'd be crazy to pass on it or bitch the developers out for doing 30FPS. It's practically industry standard for 30FPS

30 fps is definitely NOT the industry standard for sidescrollers
 

Opa-Pa

Member
LOL people love to complain. Honestly, I love 60FPS, but I'd be crazy to pass on it or bitch the developers out for doing 30FPS. It's practically industry standard for 30FPS

It sadly is, but there are certain genres where 60fps is considered a must, some of them being fighters and side scrollers. It's always been like this and the reason you very rarely see big games in those genres be 30fps (and the few that are get a lot of backlash).

Really I don't think it's a deal breaker and think people shouldn't pass on it just because of it, but I can't fault anyone for being disappointed by it either.
 
Well it still does render 120 individual frames per second

I mean... No... It's really not. If it was, it'd be negligible to make a 30fps 3d game 60fps by turning 3d off. It's just not how it works, otherwise every game would likely have that option.
 

Kyzer

Banned
Maybe yes, maybe they don't play games at 30fps,some people can be picky in that aspect.

And no, we are not acting like 30 is 10, 30 is 30 and it's not 60.

Well, in response to that earlier post, 30 is completely playable, being picky is not the same as "cant stand". Some people are really exaggerating their graphical preferences...also its not really like a "some people prefer" thing, everybidy likes better graphics and performance. Theres a difference between preferring the best possible performance and pretending its unplayable.
 

beril

Member
I mean... No... It's really not. If it was, it'd be negligible to make a 30fps 3d game 60fps by turning 3d off. It's just not how it works, otherwise every game would likely have that option.

Well yes there are ways that you can take advantage of the two images being nearly identical. Instead of going through the whole rendering procedure from start to finish twice, you typically render each object twice to different frame buffers; which means you'll spend less time setting up the render states. And you also only need to run the game logic and animation updates once per frame. But most of the GPU work is duplicated in 3D, and it does literally produce 120 unique images; there's no other magic way to achieve it. But yeah honestly I don't see why more games don't have the option to run in 60 fps in 2D, I guess they're more CPU limited than I'd otherwise assume.
 

Wildo09

Member
BOtW is my favorite game of the year, Xenoblade Chronicles is one my favorite games of all time, and both are way below 30 fps. I wouldn't mind 30 fps on Metroid at all as long as its solid. Having said that, I think the game should've also released on the switch and Im personally not going to buy it right now.
 

Paragon

Member
the problem is people acting like it makes it unplayable which is ridiculous.
30 FPS often does make a game unplayable for me. I can end up with very bad motion sickness and/or migraines from games running at ≤30 FPS. I really tried, but had to give up on Zelda: Breath of the Wild on Wii U.
With a G-Sync display that enables arbitrary framerates to look smooth, 55 FPS is about the lower limit for me. Even it doesn't look all that smooth once you get used to ≥90.
That being said, I might not have a problem with a game like this on a 3DS due to the smaller screen size - though there did seem to be a lot of camera movement in the gameplay footage I've seen, and interpolating that footage to 90 FPS made it a lot more comfortable to watch fullscreen on a monitor.

I disagree. Unstable 60 is much worse than locked 30.
An unstable framerate is always worse than a stable one even if the fps itself is lower because exactly of the variable input lag. There is no consistent input standard and as a result your fighting with the fact that the input lag completely changes in every different instance of moment to moment gameplay. It's really not hard to understand.
Variable refresh rate displays are an amazing thing. You no longer have to lock to 30 or 60, and you get the lowest input lag possible at all times.
I can't wait for TVs and consoles to catch up. It's a real shame that the Switch doesn't use it, since the Maxwell GPU in the Tegra X1 can probably support it.

If they cant stand 30fps then they cant stand most video games...
It's not that difficult to avoid 30 FPS games if you don't insist on playing every single console-exclusive game out there.

Odds of 60fps Switch release?
Well the engine it's based on supports 120 FPS+ and can be modded to support any aspect ratio you like on PC, so it probably wouldn't be difficult to get it running at 1080p60 on Switch.
Whether that actually happens is another matter entirely, and a good reason to hate exclusives.

We've killed metroid again lads.
I would rather that a series was allowed to die than kept alive with bad games.
I'm not saying that Metroid: Samus Returns is a bad game, just that I don't think it's always a bad thing to let a series die.
Would you still care for Metroid if it turned into endless sequels to Other M and Federation Force?

Well it still does render 120 individual frames per second
Rendering 800x240 at 60 FPS is not the same as 400x240 at 120 FPS. Increasing the framerate also increases CPU load, while doubling the resolution only doubles the GPU workload - and there is arguably a lot you don't have to render twice to do 3D. (though the 3DS hardware may have to brute-force it)
 
I can understand the frustration since most side scrolling games are 60fps. However, I need to try out game and see if 30fps hampers the experience.
 
The game looks and feels like a 2D Metroid. I'd love if it was 60fps as well as 2D sprites, but regardless so far I'm very impressed with the game. I hope the people skipping it because it's 30fps are just a vocal minority. Unlike Federation Force, this is a good Metroid game and deserves to sell well.
 

OmegaFax

Member
There's moments later in the game that are jarring
when you get the ability to make everything around Samus move in slow motion. Some of the fire effects didn't have a lot of frames to begin with and are halved. Conversely, it does make them easier to dodge which I think was the intention.
 

Kesagiri

Member
I would understand if people were complaining about 30fps if this game was a fighting game.

To my knowledge, nobody has complained about the frame rate hampering this game.

The '60fps or death' mentality is a bit ridiculous. I've played games at 30fps for over 20 years with no problem.
 
People clamouring for another 2D Metroid, we finally get one after 13 long years and now so many not buying it (or claiming they're not, hmmm...) because of the amiibos and frame rate. If this is the last one for a while again then they can't complain.

Throw in the great reviews and there's really no excuse not to pick it up. I get the gripe with amiibo and locking an entire mode behind one, but 30 fps? No good Metroid since Metroid Prime 3 and y'all are mad that a 3ds remake of a game boy game runs at 30 fps? Metroid is my favorite Nintendo franchise and I can't even with this fanbase right now.
 
I would understand if people were complaining about 30fps if this game was a fighting game.

To my knowledge, nobody has complained about the frame rate hampering this game.

The '60fps or death' mentality is a bit ridiculous. I've played games at 30fps for over 20 years with no problem.

Everyone was fine with shitting on the Sony 2D platformers @ 30fps (LBP series, Puppeteer) for good reason. Platforming just doesn't feel right at half the frames, especially 2D for some reason.

Fighting games, rhythm games and platformers are probably the only genre I think NEEDS to be 60fps fwiw. Currently fine playing The Last of Us with the 30fps lock for that sweet 4K.
 

-shadow-

Member
Game runs perfectly smooth at 30 for me, would've preferred 60 absolutely, but it doesn't kill it for me. A 30/60 change when going from 2D/3D could've been an idea.
 

kc44135

Member
I'm so disappointed with this release, and I think I have to pass on it, which is something I certainly never thought I would say for 2D Metroid. Not because I think Samus Returns is bad (haven't played it, but I'm sure it's a great game based off it's overall reception so far), but because the game is so clearly hobbled by the device it was made for. 240p resolution at sub-30FPS is just horrible in 2017, especially when we're used to a better standard now (a standard Nintendo themselves set with Switch, I might add), and when the original game this remake is based on ran at 60FPS on a downright primitive piece of tech. I could go back for this, but I just genuinely don't want to.

I can't fathom why Nintendo didn't make this a cross-gen release with Switch, but regardless, it's an absolute shame. Also, I gotta say, it really grinds my gears a bit when folks (and indeed, Nintendo themselves) say that the reason Samus Returns is only on 3DS is because "Switch is a home console, and 2D Metroid belongs on 3DS because it's a handheld". OK, so what is the Switch when I unlock it, exactly? Switch is a hybrid system that can act as both a console and handheld, and it should get both styles of games. That's supposed to be one of it's selling points! I just don't get it.
 

rekameohs

Banned
I'm so disappointed with this release, and I think I have to pass on it, which is something I certainly never thought I would say for 2D Metroid. Not because I think Samus Returns is bad (haven't played it, but I'm sure it's a great game based off it's overall reception so far), but because the game is so clearly hobbled by the device it was made for. 240p resolution at sub-30FPS is just horrible in 2017, especially when we're used to a better standard now (a standard Nintendo themselves set with Switch, I might add), and when the original game this remake is based on ran at 60FPS on a downright primitive piece of tech. I could go back for this, but I just genuinely don't want to.

I can't fathom why Nintendo didn't make this a cross-gen release with Switch, but regardless, it's an absolute shame. Also, I gotta say, it really grinds my gears a bit when folks (and indeed, Nintendo themselves) say that the reason Samus Returns is only on 3DS is because "Switch is a home console, and 2D Metroid belongs on 3DS because it's a handheld". OK, so what is the Switch when I unlock it, exactly? Switch is a hybrid system that can act as both a console and handheld, and it should get both styles of games. That's supposed to be one of it's selling points! I just don't get it.
Jesus, calm down. This thing was in development long before the Switch was released and became a bonafide hit.
 

Astral Dog

Member
I'm so disappointed with this release, and I think I have to pass on it, which is something I certainly never thought I would say for 2D Metroid. Not because I think Samus Returns is bad (haven't played it, but I'm sure it's a great game based off it's overall reception so far), but because the game is so clearly hobbled by the device it was made for. 240p resolution at sub-30FPS is just horrible in 2017, especially when we're used to a better standard now (a standard Nintendo themselves set with Switch, I might add), and when the original game this remake is based on ran at 60FPS on a downright primitive piece of tech. I could go back for this, but I just genuinely don't want to.

I can't fathom why Nintendo didn't make this a cross-gen release with Switch, but regardless, it's an absolute shame. Also, I gotta say, it really grinds my gears a bit when folks (and indeed, Nintendo themselves) say that the reason Samus Returns is only on 3DS is because "Switch is a home console, and 2D Metroid belongs on 3DS because it's a handheld". OK, so what is the Switch when I unlock it, exactly? Switch is a hybrid system that can act as both a console and handheld, and it should get both styles of games. That's supposed to be one of it's selling points! I just don't get it.
The game would looking horrible on Switch standards and has been in development for 3DS while Switch is going to have its own Metroid.

See it as the 3DS swang song what a Beast
 

Oidisco

Member
I'm so disappointed with this release, and I think I have to pass on it, which is something I certainly never thought I would say for 2D Metroid. Not because I think Samus Returns is bad (haven't played it, but I'm sure it's a great game based off it's overall reception so far), but because the game is so clearly hobbled by the device it was made for. 240p resolution at sub-30FPS is just horrible in 2017, especially when we're used to a better standard now (a standard Nintendo themselves set with Switch, I might add), and when the original game this remake is based on ran at 60FPS on a downright primitive piece of tech. I could go back for this, but I just genuinely don't want to.

I can't fathom why Nintendo didn't make this a cross-gen release with Switch, but regardless, it's an absolute shame. Also, I gotta say, it really grinds my gears a bit when folks (and indeed, Nintendo themselves) say that the reason Samus Returns is only on 3DS is because "Switch is a home console, and 2D Metroid belongs on 3DS because it's a handheld". OK, so what is the Switch when I unlock it, exactly? Switch is a hybrid system that can act as both a console and handheld, and it should get both styles of games. That's supposed to be one of it's selling points! I just don't get it.

The reason it's only on the 3DS is because Sakamoto wanted to have a 2D Metroid that made use of 2 screens and 3D. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets a Switch release after Prime 4 comes out but for now 3DS is all you got and honestly, it looks great. I thought it was pretty ugly in the trailers and demo footage, but actually playing the game I really like the art style.
 

NoKisum

Member
Fans beg for new Metroid > Nintendo finally listens and gives fans new Metroid > New Metroid runs at 30 fps > No one considers it a real Metroid game > Sales plummet despite critical acclaim > Nintendo decides not to make Metroid games again
 

SirNinja

Member
Fans beg for new Metroid > Nintendo finally listens and gives fans new Metroid > New Metroid runs at 30 fps > No one considers it a real Metroid game > Sales plummet despite critical acclaim > Nintendo decides not to make Metroid games again

Keep in mind I could write this exact thing, except replacing the underlined with something far more damning, for both Other M and Fed Force.

Metroid will be okay. It may be an annoyingly long time between entries, but if it survived those two games, it can absolutely weather the storm of "the framerate's not what I wanted it to be".
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Is not but people here act like it was invented when ps4 and xbox one were released.

it's funny too because most games there aren't even 60fps

Everyone was fine with shitting on the Sony 2D platformers @ 30fps (LBP series, Puppeteer) for good reason. Platforming just doesn't feel right at half the frames, especially 2D for some reason.

Fighting games, rhythm games and platformers are probably the only genre I think NEEDS to be 60fps fwiw. Currently fine playing The Last of Us with the 30fps lock for that sweet 4K.

I get your point but people were saying Metroid is more of an exploration game than a platformer.
 

Instro

Member
Fans beg for new Metroid > Nintendo finally listens and gives fans new Metroid > New Metroid runs at 30 fps > No one considers it a real Metroid game > Sales plummet despite critical acclaim > Nintendo decides not to make Metroid games again

The reality is that it's a small handful of people complaining about this stuff. The game will live and die based on whether people care about a remake of one the least liked/remembered games in the series, and whether core fans(and general audiences) still care about buying 3DS games now that the Switch is in full swing. It's also fair to say that the current commercials don't exactly make it look like the most visually compelling game either.
 

EricB

Member
Actual Metroid fan here:

Significant way through the game already, loving it. Wouldn't have known about this "issue" had it not been for this thread.

Anywho, out of curiosity, since the framerate
is unlocked, are there any improvements playing on custom firmware? I'd try it myself, but I honestly do not care in the least.
 

Opa-Pa

Member
Actual Metroid fan here:

Significant way through the game already, loving it. Wouldn't have known about this "issue" had it not been for this thread.

Anywho, out of curiosity, since the framerate
is unlocked, are there any improvements playing on custom firmware? I'd try it myself, but I honestly do not care in the least.

Is it unlocked? I'm playing with "boost mode" on CFW myself and it's just solid, probably locked 30FPS.
 

EricB

Member
Is it unlocked? I'm playing with "boost mode" on CFW myself and it's just solid, probably locked 30FPS.

Just going by bits and pieces that I read in this thread. Seemed like it was unlocked, but I guess I didn't really read enough to see if it was verified one way or the other.

Either way, great game however many frames it shows you per second.
 

-shadow-

Member
The only time I actually notice the frame rate is the small cutscene when riding an elevator. It's not an issue otherwise.
This and the teleportation are the only two places where I've noticed the framerate being off. For the rest it's solid 30.
 

zooL

Member
the animation for destroying blocks is also somehiw low framerate, but this is a small blemish for this otherwise awesome game. I am so happy this game turned out so well! :D
 

Berordn

Member
This and the teleportation are the only two places where I've noticed the framerate being off. For the rest it's solid 30.

My gut tells me that these are FMV, which is especially weird. Maybe just trying to save on space since it'd be a waste of time to have that big a video for a glorified load screen.
 
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