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[Darth Sonik]

I just finished watching the whole thing.

Enterprise being his second favourite series is no surprise, seeing as it was the most he has written on any of the shows.

As for my opinion on the matter, I think Enterprise has gotten a raw deal from the fans. I think that anything that came after 14 years straight of Trek would have been poorly received.

Especially when after the internet wars of the mid 90's between the other three series, the fans of those shows now had a common enemy.

Nemesis was almost a "good classic Star Trek movie", trouble was that we had seen it all before and better.

 

[Cheebs]

Berman seemed like a ok dude but he had no clue what to do with the franchise. Trek fans are extremely lucky to have J.J. Abrams in Berman's old job. I know a decent number of Trek fans miss the 24th century stuff (Dax) but Abrams has a muuuuuch higher standard than Berman ever did for quality with this franchise.

Watching that video makes it all the more clear just how fucking lucky this franchise is circa 2009.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Berman seemed like a ok dude but he had no clue what to do with the franchise. Trek fans are extremely lucky to have J.J. Abrams in Berman's old job. I know a decent number of Trek fans miss the 24th century stuff (Dax) but Abrams has a muuuuuch higher standard than Berman ever did for quality with this franchise.

Problem is Abrams is likely not going to be stuck with the franchise forever and eventually someone is going to have to take over the franchise if they ever want it back on TV. Abrams involved in alot of things, doubt he can dedicated himself to trek outside of possible next films.

 

[Cheebs]

Problem is Abrams is likely not going to be stuck with the franchise forever and eventually someone is going to have to take over the franchise if they ever want it back on TV. Abrams involved in alot of things, doubt he can dedicated himself to trek outside of possible next films.

Abrams has said that he isn't opposed to producing a Trek tv series down the line after it is a film franchise for a while.

 

[Instigator]

Nemesis was almost a "good classic Star Trek movie", trouble was that we had seen it all before and better.

Repetition and recycled plots are not alien to Trek.

Nemesis was still a turd on its own right. Can't blame the cast or the special effects, the story and dialogue just wasn't good enough to make a movie out of it.

 

[The Librarian]

Berman seemed like a ok dude but he had no clue what to do with the franchise. Trek fans are extremely lucky to have J.J. Abrams in Berman's old job. I know a decent number of Trek fans miss the 24th century stuff (Dax) but Abrams has a muuuuuch higher standard than Berman ever did for quality with this franchise.

Watching that video makes it all the more clear just how fucking lucky this franchise is circa 2009.

Given the three TV series he mainly oversaw (most of TNG, Voyager and Enterprise), this is an accurate description. He didn't really know what to do with it, so he just kept on authorizing more TV shows and movies until "franchise fatigue" sunk in.

Some can (and probably do) blame him for what happened to Trek, and Braga too.

From what I've seen Abrams is a lot more careful with the franchise (what's authorized and what gets made) compared to Berman.

 

[Freshmaker]

I just finished watching the whole thing.

Enterprise being his second favourite series is no surprise, seeing as it was the most he has written on any of the shows.

As for my opinion on the matter, I think Enterprise has gotten a raw deal from the fans. I think that anything that came after 14 years straight of Trek would have been poorly received.

Especially when after the internet wars of the mid 90's between the other three series, the fans of those shows now had a common enemy.

DS9 kinda ended the franchise. Most of the issues were wrapped up, the political intrigues that made TNG and DS9 interesting were finished etc. The only place left to then in the future timeline would be exploring a new quadrant or something. That or moving to something terrible like the further future time police or worse yet, Starfleet Academy.

So then we get Voyager, a show built around tensions that weren't interesting to begin with. (Who ever gave a crap about the Marquee?) Voyager had already convinced fans that ST was dead for the most part. Enterprise would've had to be incredible to get inertia with the fans. Instead, the show started slow and had future lizard space Nazi's.

 

[FoneBone]

So then we get Voyager, a show built around tensions that weren't interesting to begin with.

Eh... Voyager could have been good, had it attempted to actually make good on its premise -- far from home, short on resources, et cetera -- as opposed to getting shuttlecraft destroyed every other week. (Not that i'm the first to observe this.)

 

[Acid08]

I saw Wrath of Khan for the first time recently. Goddamn the movie sucked, and I'm a huge fan of TOS after powering through most of it on YouTube :lol . Ricardo Mantebaun is such a shit villain.

 

[BorkBork]

So then we get Voyager, a show built around tensions that weren't interesting to begin with. (Who ever gave a crap about the Marquee?) Voyager had already convinced fans that ST was dead for the most part. Enterprise would've had to be incredible to get inertia with the fans. Instead, the show started slow and had future lizard space Nazi's.

I gave a crap about Maquis. But DS9 ended that great arc, not Voyager. I agree with the rest of your synopsis though.

 

[LCfiner]

I saw Wrath of Khan for the first time recently. Goddamn the movie sucked, and I'm a huge fan of TOS after powering through most of it on YouTube :lol . Ricardo Mantebaun is such a shit villain.

I'm so angry at your opinion right now I want to punch through a million walls with my fists.

 

[Zenith]

So then we get Voyager, a show built around tensions that weren't interesting to begin with. (Who ever gave a crap about the Marquee?) Voyager had already convinced fans that ST was dead for the most part. Enterprise would've had to be incredible to get inertia with the fans. Instead, the show started slow and had future lizard space Nazi's.

the Marquis were cool when DS9 did them.

but Voyager's premise just sucked. That whole "trying to get home" thing. First it's just not very interesting, and second you know every 2 parter or series finale will revolve around some hope of getting home and they'll always fail fro bullshit reasosn.

 

[Acid08]

I'm so angry at your opinion right now I want to punch through a million walls with my fists.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Darth Sonik]

I find it hard to criticise Berman too much. It wasn't just him that was burned out, it was the fans as well. He had an impossible job when it came to Enterprise, follow 14 years of a TV Franchise that was on an inevitable decline.

It was Paramount at fault not Berman.

 

[BorkBork]

I just finished watching the whole thing.

Enterprise being his second favourite series is no surprise, seeing as it was the most he has written on any of the shows.

As for my opinion on the matter, I think Enterprise has gotten a raw deal from the fans. I think that anything that came after 14 years straight of Trek would have been poorly received.

Especially when after the internet wars of the mid 90's between the other three series, the fans of those shows now had a common enemy.

Nemesis was almost a "good classic Star Trek movie", trouble was that we had seen it all before and better.

Did you just repost the same post you wrote hours ago? :lol

 

[Darth Sonik]

No I just finally came back on the internet, and refreshed some tabs that were open, creating the double post of forever. :lol :lol :lol

 

[maharg]

I find it hard to criticise Berman too much. It wasn't just him that was burned out, it was the fans as well. He had an impossible job when it came to Enterprise, follow 14 years of a TV Franchise that was on an inevitable decline.

It was Paramount at fault not Berman.

"franchise fatigue" is such a lame, pathetic excuse. The fatigue has more to do with mismanagement than the franchise itself. I'm not saying there weren't, at times, too much Star Trek media coming out (namely, while DS9 was on the air), just that the problem was never that the franchise needed any sort of resting period.

What it needed was new blood, new ideas. It got that in fourth season Enterprise with Manny Coto and then in Star Trek with JJ Abrahms. It's not as if the gap between those two was even very long (about 4 years), which just goes to show how bunk the franchise fatigue argument is.

 

[The Librarian]

DS9 kinda ended the franchise. Most of the issues were wrapped up, the political intrigues that made TNG and DS9 interesting were finished etc. The only place left to then in the future timeline would be exploring a new quadrant or something. That or moving to something terrible like the further future time police or worse yet, Starfleet Academy.

But it also left somethings to be resolved (or, at least, have potentially awesome new storylines): Section 31, the aftermath of the Dominion War... Voyager left something open in its series finale with the Borg. You're mainly right: DS9 did kind of wrap things up.

There's still some different direction one could take within the original timeline, though.

 

[maharg]

Freshmaker, what have you done

 

[The Librarian]

Freshmaker, what have you done

What has he done, exactly?

 

[Freshmaker]

Freshmaker, what have you done

Just saying the perception of franchise fatigue popped up because you had two weak properties back to back. People recognize them as such, and stop watching. This makes the advertisers notice etc, which then leads the money people to think that the franchise is played out.

It's not necessarially true, but the perception tends to shape the reality. You need something to smack that perception square in the neck with a double axe-handle, maybe tear a shirt etc to get people to think otherwise. They weren't doing that with Enterprise. The stuff that was good really only popped up well after most people stopped watching. (I know I stopped at the future space Nazi lizardmen and didn't revisit the series until it was in reruns on HDNET...)

But it also left somethings to be resolved (or, at least, have potentially awesome new storylines): Section 31, the aftermath of the Dominion War... Voyager left something open in its series finale with the Borg. You're mainly right: DS9 did kind of wrap things up.

That reminds me, I always thought it'd be interesting if the Borg decided to be sneaky about their assmililation. Set up a cult of Borg, and try to draw willing recruits to the collective. Generate a holy war kinda vibe. The whole humans vs glorified insect hive is meh to me.

I am also interested in what became of Westley Crusher once he ascended. Dunno how you'd structure a series around that though.

The problem with continuing off DS9 to me is that then you'd have to either ignore or try to explain Starchild Sisko at some point.

 

[Zenith]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg8_cKxJZJY

Bizarre. I have clear memories of Newton acting like a douche, Einstein being down-to-earth and there being a 3rd scientist, but I have no memory of Hawking. You'd think he'd stick out more.

 

[The Librarian]

That reminds me, I always thought it'd be interesting if the Borg decided to be sneaky about their assmililation. Set up a cult of Borg, and try to draw willing recruits to the collective. Generate a holy war kinda vibe. The whole humans vs glorified insect hive is meh to me.

The Borg adapt. It's what they do. At the end of Voyager, it's clear that they need to adapt in order to confront Mankind. Due to what Voyager did, it definitely would be best to take the Borg in an entirely different direction.

The problem with continuing off DS9 to me is that then you'd have to either ignore or try to explain Starchild Sisko at some point.

Hm, probably. You're likely right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg8_cKxJZJY

Bizarre. I have clear memories of Newton acting like a douche, Einstein being down-to-earth and there being a 3rd scientist, but I have no memory of Hawking. You'd think he'd stick out more.

That scene is awesome.

 

[Cheerilee]

But it also left somethings to be resolved (or, at least, have potentially awesome new storylines): Section 31, the aftermath of the Dominion War... Voyager left something open in its series finale with the Borg. You're mainly right: DS9 did kind of wrap things up.

There's still some different direction one could take within the original timeline, though.

I thought TNG and DS9 both ended the same way.

TNG: Q made everything since the first episode happen as a test for Picard/Humanity. Picard passed the test in the last episode, so Q goes away (I really hate that they brought him back just to be lame in Voyager).

DS9: The Prophets made everything since the first episode happen to prepare the Sisko to fight the Pah-Wraiths for them. Sisko wins in the last episode, so the Prophets go away.

All the other dangling threads are just life in the 24th Century.

Voyager didn't end anything except it's own pathetic game of Gilligan's Island. Voyager could go back out again, assuming they came up with a new core concept. I would suggest an edgy Romulan war, triggered by the anti-Borg technologies Voyager brought back with them from the Delta Quadrant/future, ending with the detonation of Omega Particles and whatnot.

They could put Chakotay in command of Voyager (since Janeway took an Admiral's desk job according to the TNG movies) with Seven of Nine and the Doctor, to offload the cost of veteran actors. Harry Kim and Tom Paris/B'lana Torres could get command of their own ships (matching each other, but not Voyager, Galaxy, Defiant, or any other previously established class) manned by fresh noobs, and take on assorted episodes, to increase the overall scope of the series. They could bring Michael Dorn in to do a Worf/Defiant episode. All under JJ Abrams with better CG than we saw in the previous 24th Century shows.

Edit: Oh and, Voyager 2 is an awesome name.

 

[maharg]

TNG: Q made everything since the first episode happen as a test for Picard/Humanity. Picard passed the test in the last episode, so Q goes away (I really hate that they brought him back just to be lame in Voyager).

What? I think you misunderstood the TNG finale. Q didn't make anything happen except the obvious things in the episodes he was in. He wasn't making the ferengi steal luaxana troi or any of that crap. The only really big impact on the timeline he had, afaik, is bringing the Federation's first direct encounter with the Borg ahead a year or two which allowed them to prepare some defenses.

He also said at the end of that episode that the trial never ends (echoing him saying that in the first episode as well). Q has never promised to never come back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIGxezrlj2I

 

[The Librarian]

I thought TNG and DS9 both ended the same way.

TNG: Q made everything since the first episode happen as a test for Picard/Humanity. Picard passed the test in the last episode, so Q goes away (I really hate that they brought him back just to be lame in Voyager).

DS9: The Prophets made everything since the first episode happen to prepare the Sisko to fight the Pah-Wraiths for them. Sisko wins in the last episode, so the Prophets go away.

I've never thought of it that way before! They're definitely very similar.

Voyager didn't end anything except it's own pathetic game of Gilligan's Island. Voyager could go back out again, assuming they came up with a new core concept. I would suggest an edgy Romulan war, triggered by the anti-Borg technologies Voyager brought back with them from the Delta Quadrant/future, ending with the detonation of Omega Particles and whatnot.

They could put Chakotay in command of Voyager (since Janeway took an Admiral's desk job according to the TNG movies) with Seven of Nine and the Doctor, to offload the cost of veteran actors. Harry Kim and Tom Paris/B'lana Torres could get command of their own ships manned by fresh noobs, and take on assorted episodes, to increase the overall scope of the series. They could bring Michael Dorn in to do a Worf/Defiant episode. All under JJ Abrams with better CG than we saw in the previous 24th Century shows.

I know you're probably just thinking of the top of your ahead, but it does support what I said in my post you quoted. New blood was needed, and that's really something Trek lacked Voyager and beyond (aside from the latest movie).

TOS was different from TNG, DS9 was different from TOS... those three shows were different from each other, but most importantly they were good while being different. Voyager was essentially a worse version of TNG and had the same type of theme, and while Enterprise was different from previous Treks, it wasn't good (aside from season four, but it was too late by then).

 

[BorkBork]

I just watched "All Good Things..." last week on TV again. Damn that was a great finale.

"So, five-card stud, nothing wild... and the sky's the limit."

 

[Cheerilee]

What? I think you misunderstood the TNG finale. Q didn't make anything happen except the obvious things in the episodes he was in. He wasn't making the ferengi steal luaxana troi or any of that crap. The only really big impact on the timeline he had, afaik, is bringing the Federation's first direct encounter with the Borg ahead a year or two which allowed them to prepare some defenses.

He also said at the end of that episode that the trial never ends (echoing him saying that in the first episode as well). Q has never promised to never come back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIGxezrlj2I

I think it's just that I figured Q was capable of being subtle. He made sure that there was always another adventure for Picard just around the next bend. He didn't have any direct involvement in anything, except for the times when he got antsy and couldn't resist jumping in for himself. Especially with his little joke (to the viewer) that he was going to end Picard's "Trek". And he was at least watching Picard for that entire time.

His threat at the end was just a threat. He didn't make any promises not to come back, but I think he did finally go away.

Q switching from Picard to Janeway just seemed cheap and transparent to me. So I pretend it never happened. Not unless something more comes from a Q-Voyager connection (something like Q claiming responsibility via Voyager/Janeway/Seven for denying warp travel to humanity by way of Omega Particles as punishment for a future war with the Romulans).

 

[BorkBork]

I think it's just that I figured Q was capable of being subtle. He made sure that there was always another adventure for Picard just around the next bend. He didn't have any direct involvement in anything, except for the times when he got antsy and couldn't resist jumping in for himself. Especially with his little joke (to the viewer) that he was going to end Picard's "Trek". And he was at least watching Picard for that entire time.

His threat at the end was just a threat. He didn't make any promises not to come back, but I think he did finally go away.

Q switching from Picard to Janeway just seemed cheap and transparent to me. So I pretend it never happened. Not unless something more comes from a Q-Voyager connection (something like Q claiming responsibility via Voyager/Janeway/Seven for denying warp travel to humanity by way of Omega Particles as punishment for a future war with the Romulans).

It was before the TNG finale, but Q was on DS9 as well. Sisko punched him and he never came back. :lol

 

[Cheerilee]

It was before the TNG finale, but Q was on DS9 as well. Sisko punched him and he never came back. :lol

The Emissary of the Prophets punched Q. That's what Q gets for toying with a God-killer in training.

 

[maharg]

Q not only doesn't say he isn't coming back, he pretty much says he will. It's right there at the end of the clip I linked to.

And since the Federation never had any shortage of new adventures before leaving the area the Q felt they shouldn't leave, it seems unlikely Q would have to make anything special happen once they had.

 

[DrForester]

Biggest problem with Q (With the exception of All Good Things...), was that he was turned more into a comic relief character with every new appearance. In "Encounter at Farpoint" and "All Good Things...", he provided genuine threats to the crew.

And you can't really argue the Bog meeting, since the Borg were already aware of the Federation, Q just let the Federation find out about them earlier (And actually, the Federation knew about the Borg before that as well)

 

[maharg]

The Federation knew there was something, but didn't know what. I think Voyager retconned the shit out of that, but that's Voyager for you.

 

[DrForester]

The Federation knew there was something, but didn't know what. I think Voyager retconned the shit out of that, but that's Voyager for you.

Well I believe there were writers from TNG that said it was something that they wanted to include in an episode, but never found the actual time for it. While it wasn't officially cannon will Voyager messed with it, it was the original intention of the TNG crew. Kind of like how DS9 writers wanted to mention at some point that the Founders knew about the Federation and expected their conflict to begin in 300 years when their areas had expanded far enough.

Also know that the Borg were originally not a mechanic race, but were supposed to tie into those little neck bugs from season 1 that tried to take over starfleet.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I am also interested in what became of Westley Crusher once he ascended. Dunno how you'd structure a series around that though.

The problem with continuing off DS9 to me is that then you'd have to either ignore or try to explain Starchild Sisko at some point.

As a nerdy-nerd guy who reads a lot of the recent Star Trek novels, a few comments to make.

In the A Time To novel series that basically covers the Enterprise-E's doings in the year prior to Nemesis, two of them (A Time to be Born, A Time to Die) heavily deal with Wesley. Pretty interesting to see a take on the character after so long in his new role. It also basically ignores what little they had of him in Nemesis deleted scenes, which is probably for the best; unexplainedly coming back to being a low-ranked Starfleet engineer after having been with the Traveler would've been a bit buh.

Quite a few of the post-finale DS9 books have very little to do with Ben Sisko--at least beyond other characters (especially Jake and Kassidy) missing him and wondering what's become of him. Later on it does start touching on him again, but they still try to leave things pretty myserious. The Prophets are always hard to understand.

 

[beelzebozo]

i need you STAR TREK supernerds to help me figure out what episode of TNG this is. all i can remember:

wesley crusher is trapped in a cave with someone who may or may not be injured. i seemed to remember this person lying on the ground and wesley is trying to calculate some kind of input to put into a tricorder or some sort of handheld device which will allow him to fire a laser or beam of light to disable some sort of force field which is trapping them.

i've only seen it once when i was a kid, but it's burned forever in my memory--but only that scene. any ideas?

 

[DarthWoo]

i need you STAR TREK supernerds to help me figure out what episode of TNG this is. all i can remember:

wesley crusher is trapped in a cave with someone who may or may not be injured. i seemed to remember this person lying on the ground and wesley is trying to calculate some kind of input to put into a tricorder or some sort of handheld device which will allow him to fire a laser or beam of light to disable some sort of force field which is trapping them.

i've only seen it once when i was a kid, but it's burned forever in my memory--but only that scene. any ideas?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Mission

Also, I've been listening to the end credits from 11, and I can't help but think it is one of the best pieces of Trek music ever.

 

[beelzebozo]

darthwoo, you are awesome.

look at that shit. five fucking minutes.

that's why STAR TREK fans are so fucking awesome. thanks man.

 

[Escape Goat]

He made sure that there was always another adventure for Picard just around the next bend.

Q never made anything happen except their encounter with the Borg. He gave Picard clues about things Picard had already set in motion. It wasn't Q who created the anomly in the finale, it was Picard. Q just gave Picard an opportunity to fix it.

 

[beelzebozo]

i'm watching some more TNG, and while i watch episodes, i like to read background info on the star trek memory alpha wiki. i'm noticing there's considerably less background info or general "behind the scenes" information for each TNG episode than there was for each DS9 episode.

was a lot of "making of" and "behind the scenes" stuff just not produced or revealed for TNG?

 

[Sibylus]

Akira's the coolest ship class. Torpedoooooooes.

 

[Rickard]

Hey guys, maybe you can help me.

The people who made THIS VIDEO say the music is from "Star Trek", but I haven't been able to find it.

Anybody here recognize it?

 

[beelzebozo]

for some reason i'm inclined to think that track is from the newest movie's soundtrack.

 

[Zophar]

for some reason i'm inclined to think that track is from the newest movie's soundtrack.

It's definitely not. I have no idea what it's from.

 

[user_nat]

My Brother recently bought all 4 seasons of Enterprise, show gets way to much hate.

Season 4 is very great. Even the last episode isn't that bad the second time.

Spoiler

It's still pretty bad though

 

[beelzebozo]

It's definitely not. I have no idea what it's from.

oops, sorry. just a gut feeling. my bad.

 

[Sibylus]

It was in one of the newest movie's trailers, though.

 

[beelzebozo]

oh, well, there you go. apology retracted. maybe.

 

[Freshmaker]

As a nerdy-nerd guy who reads a lot of the recent Star Trek novels, a few comments to make.

In the A Time To novel series that basically covers the Enterprise-E's doings in the year prior to Nemesis, two of them (A Time to be Born, A Time to Die) heavily deal with Wesley. Pretty interesting to see a take on the character after so long in his new role. It also basically ignores what little they had of him in Nemesis deleted scenes, which is probably for the best; unexplainedly coming back to being a low-ranked Starfleet engineer after having been with the Traveler would've been a bit buh.

The story would be easier to swallow without Whil Wheaton getting in the way.

Quite a few of the post-finale DS9 books have very little to do with Ben Sisko--at least beyond other characters (especially Jake and Kassidy) missing him and wondering what's become of him. Later on it does start touching on him again, but they still try to leave things pretty myserious. The Prophets are always hard to understand.

Not only that, they're kinda dull since they only sit in that wormhole and don't seem to actually do anything.

 

[Rickard]

I listened through the newest movies soundtrack, couldn't find it.

Help me Trek-GAF, You are my only hope.