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The Last Jedi: Why Does Nobody Talk About Holdo Lighstpeeding Through Rey, Rose & Finn?

Because she doesn't know Rey/Rose/Finn are on the ship?

It's pretty clear her plans to keep certain people in the dark about virtually anything in case her plans backfired, uh... backfired.
 
If the best you can say, is cool effects

then it’s just best left like that

I always found that having a fleet of the universes slowest most defenceless bombers, that actually ‘drop bombs’ in space !!!!

was far more testing for my Star Wars fan side, than this and had me cringing in my seat on opening night. Although wrapping it with some cool Poe versus a star destroyer action was a smart play 👍😎

not sure on the ‘everybody can dream of being a Jedi’ coda either (right up there with with the Lucas explanation of the force as well 😬🙈)
 

VAL0R

Banned
The problem with the Holdo lightspeed kamikaze attack is not that it is fantastical. Yes we know Star Wars has "space wizards" and laser swords. But you have to be coherent and somewhat consistent within your own fictional world. If you can simply strap a piloting droid onto a lightspeed engine and drive it into any military starship, obliterating it, this obviously renders starships completely useless and obsolete, especially the awesome mega-ships of the Empire. We know that in the Star Wars fiction lightspeed drives are a dime a dozen as are the droids that could pilot them. So lightspeed kamikaze attacks become an obviously readily available, immediately accessible, and unstoppable weapon that trumps all other weapons, within the fiction of the universe.
 
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Cleared_Hot

Member
dude... did Red Letter Media not mention this in their review?! Even they missed it?!


this broke star wars... we have to believe that nobody in the thousands upon thousands of years of the star wars galaxy beings capable of light speed did anyone ever think of it?! LOL

i am willing to bet a BILLION dollars when light speed is invented, the military will already have a plan to use it as a weapon.
 
The real question is why did she waited so long with the ramming? Half of rebel ships were destroyed before she did anything. TLJ is so full of plot holes that nothing makes sense.
 
Dunno if this has been said, if you've read the books you understand a lot the movie hasn't divulged.

For instance - Skywalker can simulate multiple variations of himself, the count was over 90 before he stopped counting. It is said he essentially can now replicate 12x of himself to utilize on the battlefield, per Jedi that have ever existed.

And perhaps far more.

He also cloned himself at least twice once he found out cloning was a common thing, it was during this revelation that you find out he has utilized all sorts of Jedi force powers to help his friends and communicates with them (as well as the over 90+ other Luke Skywalkers that have been replicated - regularly)

He also would have been helping Rey pilot ship's she boarded remotely.

with that out of the way...

Per the Books - If you know anything about Vice Admiral Amilyn Holdo everything makes complete sense - she was a genius, 2nd only to Luke Skywalker - and extremely educated in military strategy.

If you've read the literature, you would know Holdo utilized all the recon... all the data gathered.... and carried out that mission knowing EXACTLY where Rey, Fin and the others would be in relation to the path she charted through the ship. If you know the literature - You knew she was a very tactful precise woman. She also knew that Skywalker was helping the others and in fact everyone (as much as he may of helped his own sister better invoke her own force powers when she was sucked into space) and knew that the ship had massive safety protocols in place for such an occurrence - protocols that would leave the ship largely paralyzed under such circumstances but had the correct safety procedures in place to mitigate and minimize harm to those outside of the impact zone.

With this data she made an educated choice, also - it is my understanding that is very possible this iteration of Amilyn Holdo may have herself been a clone.

Either way Vice Admiral Holdo charted a course through the ship knowing her friends would be outside of the impact zone, and relatively safe due to on ship safety protocol that would immediately lock down and seal off space breaches during such an occurrence.

Per the literature (at far over 100 books worth of reading)

Capital ships had self healing, self repairing, self shielding walls, hulls, ect. A lot of the technology outlined in the book cites that such shields would be utilized in abundance as you only became aware of them when passing through them, they were multipurpose and they were certainly strong enough to shield the crew from the space breaches, anomalies and outside incursions therein.

It was important that passengers were unable to see the plasma style clear shielding until passing from corridor to corridor as these shields also maintained the function of healing it's crew, and scanning all persons present during such incursion while relaying security breach intel back to the Empire.

The crew on Empire ships - knew about these features boasted by the Empire intimately, and leveraged whatever strategic worth they could on the fact that maybe intruders would not.

Which is why it's also important Rey was a hacker, some of these barely visible shielding mechanisms... did not just heal the crew on pass through, and seal off the atmosphere from space breaches - but also carried the function of apprehending intruders.
 
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dave_d

Member
If the best you can say, is cool effects

then it’s just best left like that

I always found that having a fleet of the universes slowest most defenceless bombers, that actually ‘drop bombs’ in space !!!!

was far more testing for my Star Wars fan side, than this and had me cringing in my seat on opening night. Although wrapping it with some cool Poe versus a star destroyer action was a smart play 👍😎

not sure on the ‘everybody can dream of being a Jedi’ coda either (right up there with with the Lucas explanation of the force as well 😬🙈)
The part that I found completely stupid about it was that Leia signed off on this attack. That they put all the time and effort of hundreds of people to get the bombers there through guile. It was pretty much a one time thing and they'd have to expect the bombers would be useless next time. Anyway they get an opportunity to take out a major target that they have almost no chance of doing better than this. So of course Leia gets cold feet and starts claiming maybe I could have used them better, you're demoted Poe. I guess I could also go into the whole thing where Holdo is supposed to be a great leader but she leads the empire right to the new base planet and it's pretty much the only planet they fly by. Even if she led them off once they catch up to her there's a decent chance they figure out the rebels are missing, why don't we check that one planet we flew by. (Or how they don't know about that gun the empire uses to knock down the door of the base. Another plot hole.)
 

sobaka770

Banned
Star wars is a fantasy soap opera. Nobody cares about laws of science or things that should've happened normally apart from people who don't understand what it entails. Things happen in start wars mostly to drive character arcs, plot and deliver cool moments. It also needs some internal consistency to maintain the illusion of disbelief but assist from that with Force magic and space passed already thrown aside - anything goes.

Holdo manoeuver was the pinnacle of all arcs on TLJ - Kylo and Rey fight for lightsaber, Rose and Finn about to get executed and rebellion getting shot to pieces - and it's a great visual cap and a plot device to move all of them forward at the same time. The way the movie comes together at this point and how visually arresting it is, is one of the reasons why this movie is awesome, in my opinion, of course.
 
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Cleared_Hot

Member
Dunno if this has been said, if you've read the books you understand a lot the movie hasn't divulged.

For instance - Skywalker can simulate multiple variations of himself, the count was over 90 before he stopped counting. It is said he essentially can now replicate 9x of himself to utilize on the battlefield, per Jedi that have ever existed.

And perhaps far more.

He also cloned himself at least twice once he found out cloning was a common thing, it was during this revelation that you find out he has utilized all sorts of Jedi force powers to help his friends and communicates with them (as well as the over 90+ other Luke Skywalkers that have been replicated - regularly)

He also would have been helping Rey pilot ship's she boarded remotely.

with that out of the way...

Per the Books - If you know anything about Vice Admiral Amilyn Holdo everything makes complete sense - she was a genius, 2nd only to Luke Skywalker - and extremely educated in military strategy.

If you've read the literature, you would know Holdo utilized all the recon... all the data gathered.... and carried out that mission knowing EXACTLY where Rey, Fin and the others would be in relation to the path she charted through the ship. If you know the literature - You knew she was a very tactful precise woman. She also knew that Skywalker was helping the others and in fact everyone (as much as he may of helped his own sister better invoke her own force powers when she was sucked into space) and knew that the ship had massive safety protocols in place for such an occurrence - protocols that would leave the ship largely paralyzed under such circumstances but had the correct safety procedures in place to mitigate and minimize harm to those outside of impact zone.

With this data she made an educated choice, also - it is my understanding that is very possible this iteration of Amilyn Holdo may have herself been a clone.

Either way Vice Admiral Holdo charted a course through the ship knowing her friends would be outside of the impact zone, and relatively safe due to on ship safety protocol during such an occurrence.

Per the literature (at far over 100 books worth of reading)

Capital ships had self healing, self repairing, self shielding walls, hulls, ect. A lot of the technology outlined in the book cites that such shields would be utilized in abundance as you only became aware of them when passing through them, they were multipurpose and they were certainly strong enough to shield the crew from the space breaches, anomalies and outside incursions therein.

It was important that passengers were unable to see the plasma style clear shielding until passing from corridor to corridor as these shields also maintained the function of healing it's crew, and scanning all persons present during such incursion while relaying security breach intel back to the Empire.

The crew on Empire ships - knew about these features boasted by the Empire intimately, and leveraged whatever strategic worth they could on the fact that maybe intruders would not.

Which is why it's also important Rey was a hacker, some of these barely visible shielding mechanisms... did not just heal the crew on pass through, and seal off the atmosphere from space breaches - but also carried the function of apprehending intruders.
if you need to read all these books for the movie to be even semi coherent... its even more of an epic fail than i realized... you mean to tell me that they had all this source material and they went with whatever the fuck rian could think of?!
 
if you need to read all these books for the movie to be even semi coherent... its even more of an epic fail than i realized... you mean to tell me that they had all this source material and they went with whatever the fuck rian could think of?!
Well you could plainly see that the course Admiral Holdo plotted through the ship missed Rey, Finn and Rose by a fairly large margin. As it is a Sci Fi movie about wild technology, and clear plasma shielding capable of sealing off Space Breaches are frequently seen even in the first films - and these films are set 30+ years in the future I think a lot of the misconceptions and seemingly discernable plot holes are reliant upon the audiences ability to either ignore or acknowledge that in the Star Wars universe - Sci Fiction is often Science Reality and technology is far more incomprehensible - particularly for something as miniscule as an empire ship that has been breeched during a crash/rebel onslaught - than most may realize.

Also - It doesn't take much reading to find out juuuuust how sophisticated the Empire capitol ships really are in relation to what has been visualized in the films. Read any serious Starwars novel and you are guaranteed to find out a handful of interesting fact's about Empire Ships.

The technology, technology that far exceeds what the film's visualize - is discussed in detail in the books. And across most of them.

With that said, it's Luke Skywalker you are forced to read Star Wars Novels for. For all we know, the Luke assisting Rey - at point's was not actually Luke at All. As Luke is at this point in the cannon, essentially god.

It's also worth noting he routinely buff's out other Jedi with more nuanced force power's than they might have had otherwise.

Last I read, he was helping the rebel alliance - in his spare time - with a technology that could replicate it's troops and others as easily as he is able to replicate himself - that he has studied the dark side of the force after he long ago realized that what he thought was Yoda and Kenobi.....

Was actually a technology utilized by the Dark Side to replicate Yoda and Kenobi for reconnaissance.

He finds out Yoda and Kenobi ect all essentially left him long ago - to fight a greater war occurring inside the force - a war which he has become powerful enough to involve himself in (though he has not caught up with Yoda or Kenobi to my knowledge) without succumbing to death in order to do so.

Yoda left, and did so knowing the Dark Side had caught on to the fact that they were communicating with Skywalker within the force, and in turn created a recon technology to replicate Yoda and Kenobi and friends - but Yoda, it is said - also realized Luke was far too powerful at that point for it to matter or even make a difference - and as such immediately left to fight this force war (Kenobi had left some 4 day's prior, and without contacting Yoda for years) taking place inside the force. The war itself is about/leveraged on Midichlorians - which are said to be tied to children outside of their place in the force more than previously was understood or realized.

Also, after turning to the Dark Side for his own (some may say, selfish) studies... Within 2 days of studying the Dark Side - he turns away from it.... as he only studied it to find out potential vulnerabilities to the Jedi/Rebel Forces he and others may not of known about - all he in actuality learns is the Dark Side is far weaker than ever he realized. And the implications of turning to the Dark Side for Luke had Zero Impact on Luke Skywalker.

And that's about all I know about Luke Skywalker. Almost all of it anyways.

It's likely his clone is the fabled Luke who has a wife and kids ect.

The Real Luke likely does not. The Real Luke Skywalker is said to have found a piece of technology, the force led Luke to - that has invigorated his interest in pursuing new Technologies for the Rebel Alliance.

Even if he is at this point, what many would consider "God". This technology is said to have only amplified his abilities and knowledge. It is apparently some type of all knowing omnificent AI derivative, that let's him peer into all facets of existence and tweak/interject into physical outcomes.

And then... during some great incursion (may be what is shown in the movies, we don't know) he went and defeated an entire Sith Planetary Subsystem (upwards of 9 planets teeming and filled to the brim with Sith) on his own, preemptively. While also harnessing the force to help his friends and the Rebel Forces during said war incursion.

You don't find this out because there are Luke Skywalker novels (and there are)...

You find it all out by reading Random Star Wars Cannon - and this information usually comes in the form of Luke (actually, one of his replicated variants) reporting to the Rebel Alliances - or you find out about Luke by coming across breaks in Story Arcs where Luke has intervened in some way.

There's no overwhelming piece of comprehensive material that would tell you all of this nuanced subtle information otherwise.
 
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Romulus

Member
Good grief, I had literally forgotten about this. The whole sequel series was a train wreck. The Mandalorian is very flawed and ends up looking like a masterpiece compared to this.
 

Dazrael

Member
Star wars is a fantasy soap opera. Nobody cares about laws of science or things that should've happened normally apart from people who don't understand what it entails. Things happen in start wars mostly to drive character arcs, plot and deliver cool moments. It also needs some internal consistency to maintain the illusion of disbelief but assist from that with Force magic and space passed already thrown aside - anything goes.

Holdo manoeuver was the pinnacle of all arcs on TLJ - Kylo and Rey fight for lightsaber, Rose and Finn about to get executed and rebellion getting shot to pieces - and it's a great visual cap and a plot device to move all of them forward at the same time. The way the movie comes together at this point and how visually arresting it is, is one of the reasons why this movie is awesome, in my opinion, of course.
The in-universe mechanics still need to make sense regardless if it’s a fantasy soap opera. That’s like saying if Superman turns up in a Star Wars film it’s ok because “anything goes”. TLJ used visually arresting scenes at the expense of common sense and that can take the audience out of the narrative.
 

oagboghi2

Member
Star wars is a fantasy soap opera. Nobody cares about laws of science or things that should've happened normally apart from people who don't understand what it entails. Things happen in start wars mostly to drive character arcs, plot and deliver cool moments. It also needs some internal consistency to maintain the illusion of disbelief but assist from that with Force magic and space passed already thrown aside - anything goes.

Holdo manoeuver was the pinnacle of all arcs on TLJ - Kylo and Rey fight for lightsaber, Rose and Finn about to get executed and rebellion getting shot to pieces - and it's a great visual cap and a plot device to move all of them forward at the same time. The way the movie comes together at this point and how visually arresting it is, is one of the reasons why this movie is awesome, in my opinion, of course.
"a.k.a turn your brain off and don't think about anything. This movie has bright lights and explosions, so it's awesome."
 

BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
That entire movie was dumb as fuck. It starts out with World War II style bombers in space and gets dumber almost every ten minutes from there.

I do not understand The Last Jedi fans. It was easily the worst written Star Wars movie IMO.
 
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Blade2.0

Member
I still think overall TLJ is a good film. It's definitely better than the 3rd in the trilogy. If they wanted a coherent story they should have set guidelines from the off. That's why mandalorian works and this trilogy didn't. Mando has many different directors following am overall plotline. This trilogy was "throw shit at wall and see what sticks".

What I'm basically saying is "I want the trevorrow cut god damnit!"
 

VAL0R

Banned
Dunno if this has been said, if you've read the books you understand a lot the movie hasn't divulged.

For instance - Skywalker can simulate multiple variations of himself, the count was over 90 before he stopped counting. It is said he essentially can now replicate 12x of himself to utilize on the battlefield, per Jedi that have ever existed.

And perhaps far more.

He also cloned himself at least twice once he found out cloning was a common thing, it was during this revelation that you find out he has utilized all sorts of Jedi force powers to help his friends and communicates with them (as well as the over 90+ other Luke Skywalkers that have been replicated - regularly)

He also would have been helping Rey pilot ship's she boarded remotely.

with that out of the way...

Per the Books - If you know anything about Vice Admiral Amilyn Holdo everything makes complete sense - she was a genius, 2nd only to Luke Skywalker - and extremely educated in military strategy.

If you've read the literature, you would know Holdo utilized all the recon... all the data gathered.... and carried out that mission knowing EXACTLY where Rey, Fin and the others would be in relation to the path she charted through the ship. If you know the literature - You knew she was a very tactful precise woman. She also knew that Skywalker was helping the others and in fact everyone (as much as he may of helped his own sister better invoke her own force powers when she was sucked into space) and knew that the ship had massive safety protocols in place for such an occurrence - protocols that would leave the ship largely paralyzed under such circumstances but had the correct safety procedures in place to mitigate and minimize harm to those outside of the impact zone.

With this data she made an educated choice, also - it is my understanding that is very possible this iteration of Amilyn Holdo may have herself been a clone.

Either way Vice Admiral Holdo charted a course through the ship knowing her friends would be outside of the impact zone, and relatively safe due to on ship safety protocol that would immediately lock down and seal off space breaches during such an occurrence.

Per the literature (at far over 100 books worth of reading)

Capital ships had self healing, self repairing, self shielding walls, hulls, ect. A lot of the technology outlined in the book cites that such shields would be utilized in abundance as you only became aware of them when passing through them, they were multipurpose and they were certainly strong enough to shield the crew from the space breaches, anomalies and outside incursions therein.

It was important that passengers were unable to see the plasma style clear shielding until passing from corridor to corridor as these shields also maintained the function of healing it's crew, and scanning all persons present during such incursion while relaying security breach intel back to the Empire.

The crew on Empire ships - knew about these features boasted by the Empire intimately, and leveraged whatever strategic worth they could on the fact that maybe intruders would not.

Which is why it's also important Rey was a hacker, some of these barely visible shielding mechanisms... did not just heal the crew on pass through, and seal off the atmosphere from space breaches - but also carried the function of apprehending intruders.
Imagine reading books about "Vice Admiral Amilyn Holdo." You'd have to pay me at least $100.00 cash up front and another $100.00 when I'm done.
 
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Cleared_Hot

Member
iwP8M9s.jpg
 

Iorv3th

Member
Nobody talks about it because you don't have to even mention it to understand that it's the worst star wars movie ever made and should have never been made. It's terrible and Rian Johnson shouldn't touch star wars again.

I actually don't understand why they had the scripts of 1, 2, and 3 written by different people. It's mind boggling.
 

sol_bad

Member
And just as an aside.

OK for a farm boy to make a 1 in a million shot on the death star.
Not ok for a military woman to successfully make a 1 in a million chance warp speed jump to cripple a fleet.
 
So why were they using slow bombers and not y wings? Those bombers made no sense. Why couldn’t Laura Dern tell oscar issac her plan. It was a sound plan i am sure oscar issac would have been cool with it.
A man who still found good in his father who murdered millions wanted to kill his nephew while he is sleeping because nightmares. If he wanted to die in the island why he left his location to R2? A man who would never give up wanted the Jedi to end? Rian Johnson had no clue about star wars lol.
 

dr_octagon

Banned
a woman was going up against a ship called the supremacy. there is an analogy, metaphor, similie or allegory, fable in there maybe.

the film sure as fuck missed having a proper story. expectations subverted by Rian who's name is an anagram for rain. just like the rain, he couldn't sustain the cardboard characterisation of characters who quickly melted. we're left with soggy remains of potential like bowless weetabix.

the last jedi ruined wheat based cereal for me.
 
I wonder if there’s ever a picture that did so much damage to a beloved franchise. TLJ ruined SW for me. Even knowing how great mandalorian is or seeing OT again only to realize how pathetic the true ending is for my heroes Luke, Han and Leia is depressing. RoTJ ended the saga perfectly disney should have tried something new. Not related to OT.
 
Honestly i just imagine when someone says "jump to lightspeed" because of relativity they really just mean enter a warp/wormhole and come out the other side. Therefore the holdo maneuver would never work and therefore TLJ isnt cannon anyway.

The only thing cannon for me is the OT and mandalorian anyway
 

sol_bad

Member
It was filmed


We are putting Holdo’s on Luke’s level now?

It was filmed? What's your point? Thousands of films have footage on the cutting room floor, if the footage isn't in the film, it doesn't count. Obviously during editing they realised the scene didn't work, for all you know they shot that scene as a bit of fun, adlibbing etc.

And what does "level" have to do with anything? It's not an RPG.
If you want to talk about life experience though, Holdo has been doing what she has been doing for years. Luke was a farmer his whole life and then jumps in an X-Wing for the first time and he's instantly an expert, a Gary Stu if you will.
 
And what does "level" have to do with anything? It's not an RPG.
If you want to talk about life experience though, Holdo has been doing what she has been doing for years. Luke was a farmer his whole life and then jumps in an X-Wing for the first time and he's instantly an expert, a Gary Stu if you will.

The Office Lol GIF
 

farmerboy

Member
Is there a write up somewhere that explores the physics of this? Like wouldn't a collision at light speed or near light speed basically wipe out at least the star system they were in?
 

E-Cat

Member
1. She didnt know they were there.

2. Even if she knew in that case it was either them or the entire resistance. The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few.

Seriously people, stop making plot holes where there are none just because you didnt like the movie.
It's a plot hole that such an overpowering tactic is used in battle just once, and then never again.
 
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Trogdor1123

Member
I had a big star wars need friend of mine say that it couldn't happen as they actually don't do light speed, they do hyper space which is a different dimension (my word, not his) and so what she did is possible but not possible in their universe.

Also, given the mass of the ship, if it was light speed, the damage would have been billions of times more explosive. A single baseball hitting earth a light speed would destroy the whole planet, let alone a whole ship.
 
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