The game description says that it's a dystopia where people are defined by what they consume, not what they create. That sounds pretty critical of capitalism if you ask me.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
"The Last Night" (Milkshake Duck incarnate) E3 Trailer [XBO/Win10/Steam 2018]
- Thread starter NeoRaider
- Start date
- Status
The game description says that it's a dystopia where people are defined by what they consume, not what they create. That sounds pretty critical of capitalism if you ask me.
I'm also intrigued but I expect him to express his views and to characterize the views of others poorly. This would be a hard pass if I hadn't played the alpha years ago. The decision making in the game led to a nice array of consequences and the sequences were so tight it was visceral.
The gameplay if slightly improved on that alpha (the reactions to raising a weapon were too binary) and consistently maintained it would offer an uncommon type of solid gameplay experience.
Still looking forward to it but I'll only get it from Humble Bundle. I won't even accept a donation unless it was a humble bundle key.
Zap Rowsdower
Banned
Count me as someone that had a passing interest in it and now no longer does as well.
I guarantee this game will be awful. Reactionaries can't write worth a shit and this dude seems completely dense and out of his gourd. As previously mentioned, how the hell can you completely miss the very thematic core of cyberpunk as a genre, that rampant capitalism only destroys and technology won't solve societal problems such as poverty, racism, and sexism?
If you're all looking for a great cyberpunk adventure game play Technobabylon instead.
I guarantee this game will be awful. Reactionaries can't write worth a shit and this dude seems completely dense and out of his gourd. As previously mentioned, how the hell can you completely miss the very thematic core of cyberpunk as a genre, that rampant capitalism only destroys and technology won't solve societal problems such as poverty, racism, and sexism?
If you're all looking for a great cyberpunk adventure game play Technobabylon instead.
Exentryk
Member
I have no idea what the themes are for the game, but whatever it is, it's fine. Whether you feel hate or joy at the end of it, if it manages to create an emotional impact, then it might be worth it. Of course, if it has crap writing, then none of it will matter.
Psychoward
Banned
I mean at the same time the problem is only there because everyone has a guaranteed universal living wage and thus no motivation to create things because they aren't getting paid as much for them. Which is like, completely opposite from capitalism.
I realised he probably had French tweets people hadn't caught:
(the tweets he's replying to have been deleted)
1. The only racist I see here creating a racial hierarchy because someone is black or white here is you.
2. The real racists are the degenerates of your kind who see everything through the prism of race and gender.
(The next tweets are in the context of an "anti colonial summer camp" in France for POC which did not welcome the participation of white folk.)
Tim1. Please tell me you're not defending the summer camp, Baptiste.
Baptiste2. I 200% do, and I really dislike seeing everybody up in arms about it. "Oh my god, the oppressed are organising!"
Tim3. Wow, you've totally bought into the rhetoric of oppression and state racism. Disappointing.
(he then suggests Baptiste read an article he links)
Baptiste4. I read it, it's mediocre and shallow. Whether or not it chaffs your butt, institutional racism exists and is still a reality.
Baptiste5. Obviously, people who don't live it scream when say that, which in itself justifies the existence of a camp where speech is protected.
Tim6. That's anti living-together. I miss the 90s when I was a kid and we were all mixed and never thought about colour or religion.
And, re: Zoe Quinn
I don't know if you're aware, but it's a hot topic. Zoe Quinn was sexually harassing men all while crying sexism.
Thank you for bringing proof he also is more than a sexist like the typical gamergater. It's amazing how they have to overlap with so many different forms of bigotry. They can't help themselves.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Now you're just feigning ignorance.
Every single answer to you "needing to know what the theme of the game is" is in this thread.
Hell, it's in the post you're replying to.
You've had four people tell you what the game is about from actual quotes by the developer, and you've shrugged it off with "maybe we'll never know".
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Looks amazing.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I wouldn't bother. It's clear he wants to ������ it up and he's decided that's the path he's taking in life. Willful ignorance is entirely his prerogative.
edit: those are supposed to be 'see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil' monkeys but it keeps getting replaced after posting.
freethought
Member
Well as far I've heard, society has been crippled by Universal Basic Income because robots do everything. Why currency would still exist in that situation I have no idea. But it's just an excuse for an attack on the poor really.
Not interested in political commentary that chooses to blame the powerless, even if he wasn't a Gater.
NB: The pro-capitalist stuff is just weird, the GG stuff is why I'd never buy this game.
Nah, see our creative drive has been destroyed by UBI in his future. Socialism has caused the downfall. Of course it's a complete ideological mess with no internal consistency, hence consumerism still exists while capitalism has been destroyed.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
It's 1am. I can't help myself. I need to be stopped before I reply again.
I honestly think in concept the story would be great if the intentions behind it weren't so malicious.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
Yeah... Outside of the choice of choosing feminism in particular*, the notion of creating a cyberpunk world created from some sort of contrasting ideology or economic concept could be interesting. So does the notion of, what if 'big brother' does come from social media; what happens if other ideologies gain too much control and dominance, etc. Instead of mega-corps, mega-activism or if activism becomes too institutionalized. Or if politics or activism becomes too privatized. Who knows. Just there could be something at least curious there.
(*simply because in terms of national politics it's still rather marginalized; to portray it this way sort of seems more of a response to gaming community politics than real politics).
Palette Swap
Member
I'm curious to see how MS will react.
There's like zero room for ambiguity.
There's like zero room for ambiguity.
Psychoward
Banned
I wonder what would happen if he was alive during the renaissance.
"No, specialization is bad! Giving people enough food to pursue their interests will lead to the downfall of civilization and a decrease in art!"
This is just factually wrong. Cyberpunk largely originated in literature and the oppositional stance to existing power structures and hierarchies is absolutely endemic to the genre. If you claim to be making a "cyberpunk" game just cuz it looks kinda like Blade Runner and you make a game that celebrates existing power structures then you are making kitsch.
Clarification, they don't have universal basic income in Star trek. There is no money at all, people do stuff "for the betterment of mankind"
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
The usual art from artist bullshit.
Maybe he's making Cyberpunk great again®
freethought
Member
Hence 'punk'. This is more like Cyberpop.
The only way a "feminism is evil" story works is if it's total satire or parody of people who legitimately believe feminism is evil. The idiocy of these guys has so many layers. They not only don't know what feminism actually is (equality), they also transparently project their own failings and miseries in life onto women as a whole. That it's all their fault they can't get a girlfriend, or whatever. This game seems to be an embodiment of that if those tweets are anything to go by.
GillianSeed79
Member
This was legit one of the most interesting games of the show so far. Flashback meets Blade Runner.
Edit: I'm not privy to the story/background yet. Just popped in to comment how I think the game looks cool. Hopefully it's not alt-righty or anything.
Edit: I'm not privy to the story/background yet. Just popped in to comment how I think the game looks cool. Hopefully it's not alt-righty or anything.
Oh I know lol.
And the funny thing is that every human colony or planet that still wants to use currency outside the Federation is basically a dystopian nightmare with (see the Orion Syndicate episodes in DS9)
More_Badass
Member
In and of itself, that wouldn't be a bad thing. With clever and smart writing, you can probably wring out some interesting stories by twisting and subverting that thematic core.
You're right, my bad.
Why is Charlie a "lower-class citizen" if AI have taken over and provide for everyone's needs? Is he "lower-class" because his disability prevents him from interfacing with the augmented reality and there's a message about ableism? Is he "lower-class" because he's discriminated against for being bisexual and there's a message about sexual discrimination? Is he "lower-class" because he doesn't consume the socially approved media and there's a message about how criticism of media is exactly the same as censorship?
I have some preemptive thoughts about the quality of this world-building, just from a single paragraph.
I have some preemptive thoughts about the quality of this world-building, just from a single paragraph.
No worries
Yes, well, the Star Trek universe is... Highly optimistic.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
.
Aarglefarg
Member
Maybe because he's a man?
Nah, it sounds more like a GATTACA thing except instead of genes it's not being able to interface with augments.
"Charlie is a lower-class citizen who can't interface with the systems and augmentations of the world around him, due to an accident during his childhood."
Marmaladefire
Member
The best cyberpunk comes from people who understand what's it's like to really have a stake in the game. Someone who truly thinks they are oppressed because they are a member of the most prosperous and socially dominant group is probably never going to find any joy in anything, because they're too worried about people they feel are lesser than them taking it away. But that doesn't make for a genuine perspective. They aren't the socially, economically, racially oppressed underdogs and they don't want to sympathize with them. That's not what cyberpunk is about to them. They're here for robot mistresses and aesthetics and that's it.
How do you make a cyberpunk game with this kind of ~twist~? You make it about government approved quasi progressivism that isn't intersectional, talks over those they claim to help, doesn't have nuance. Big brother took our idea, twisted it into something depraved and fed it back to us in the form of gaslighting. Something like that requires devs and an audience that have a base level of understanding and acceptance of the core foundations of equality though. Then you can begin your critique.
How do you make a cyberpunk game with this kind of ~twist~? You make it about government approved quasi progressivism that isn't intersectional, talks over those they claim to help, doesn't have nuance. Big brother took our idea, twisted it into something depraved and fed it back to us in the form of gaslighting. Something like that requires devs and an audience that have a base level of understanding and acceptance of the core foundations of equality though. Then you can begin your critique.
More_Badass
Member
Genres evolve. Cyberpunk can expand and evolve too, if it's done well. That's like saying because noir is rooted in the world-weary cynicism that arose in between the eras of the Great Depression and Cold War, that noir can only always portray subject matter with that kind of thematic outlook.
TanookiTom
Member
wooooow Blade Runner all the way! Love the art style so much. Not really my genre but I will definitely keep an eye out for it for the graphic style alone!
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I would goddamn kill for a noir set in the recovering US economy.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
He is actually far-left. He was rooting for Melenchon/Hamon in the last presidential election.
Talk about conflicting ideas.
Talk about conflicting ideas.
Permanently A
Junior Member
Actually I thought that was a very novel take on cyberpunk. Cyberpunk at its core is just advanced technology juxtaposed with poor standards of living. "High tech, low life." Most media use cyberpunk to reflect real social phenomena, for example Augs in Deus Ex show the divide between mechanized and regular humans, and how technology allows regular humans to be oppressed. They themselves used the phrase "mechanical apartheid" to describe the game, showing how closely this conflict was meant to mirror that of the real world. However this game shows us a different kind of conflict - instead of physical poverty and oppression we have spiritual poverty and depression. No one needs to work anymore because everyone has money. Technology has become advanced enough to the point where creativity is dead because the robots make better art than humans. That is an incredibly captivating idea, and a fresh take on the cyberpunk genre, because nothing is really wrong. No oppressed class or thinly veiled metaphors. Just humanity face to face with its banality and lack of utter purpose.
Of course its made by a complete asshole so it won't be getting my money. I'll just have to watch it on youtube and see if it lives up to the potential its setting affords it.
Maybe Tim accidentally discovered the concept of institutional inequality while working on the plot and that's what prompted this supposed change of heart? Yeah, I don't buy it either.
Martylepiaf
Member
Rooting for Hamon while making a game about how universal income has ruined the world is weird
More_Badass
Member
Hell or High Water is basically that. Post-recession neo-noir
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I like that they directly called out gamergate.
Not many do.
Boner.
BRSxIgnition
Member
Marmaladefire
Member
Plenty of men who have economically left leaning views participate in not so shrouded sexism and racism and gender essentialism, unfortunately. A poor man (or a man who feels compelled to make a cyberpunk game) might have anti capitalist sentiments that somehow don't extend to the betterment of equal rights.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
Especially in France, where there is a special blend of Republicanism who lead a lot of left-leaning people to actually support the oppressions of women/ethnic minorities in the name of unity.
I love when they say it's biased. Like that's the end of the argument.
It would also help if he used it right.
I love the title change OP. It's so apt.
I came in like: "woah that's a unique way to represent cyberpunk themes." then I read his background and realized I probably got the themes wrong, and now I'm thinking about it in his perspective. Now it feels like Bioshock rewritten for Ayn Rand fans.
Permanently A
Junior Member
I think it would be totally doable to write a serious story about evil feminism. It would be absolutely stupid as fuck and involve many Futurama references, but nothing is impossible.
- Status