People (at least on the forums I posted on) were disappointed at the time with Majora’s Mask back at release. Lots even hated it. Obviously, over the decades it’s grown massively in stature as we all grew up and appreciated the darker tone more. It’s a phenomenal game but, I do think people had a point back then, the gameplay is a bit too much of the time travel and I don’t care what anyone says, finishing that game without looking at a guide at least 5 times is impossible. I bet you nobody, except some lunatic somewhere in Japan who got the game 2 months early, has ever completed the game without looking at a guide. For me that makes Ocarina better than it, as well as the fact it’s less stressfull to play. Both games compliment each other really well. Although I think Wind Waker is probably the best one overall, the “trilogy” is Link to the Past, Ocarina, Majoras to me.
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The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time & The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask - Are these two games an anomaly?
- Thread starter Cutty Flam
- Start date
nkarafo
Member
You also need to take into account that Majora's Mask is a much shorter game than Ocarina. It only has, what, 4 main dungeons? OOT has 10. Though i do understand that Majora's Mask doesn't rely as much on Dungeons. But still, designing and balancing those things must take a lot of time.
And being able to use the same engine and a lot of the same assets buys a lot of time and money.
And being able to use the same engine and a lot of the same assets buys a lot of time and money.
MeteorVII
Member
There was a creative boom during that whole era.
Developers were excited for the advent of 3D, new frontiers were opening up and it felt like everything they were doing was revolutionary so they put in extra effort and basically created the greatest games ever known to mankind.
Mario 64
Sonic Adventure
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Final Fantasy VII
These are all still the very best entries in each of those respective franchises and absolutely no one can dispute this.
Developers were excited for the advent of 3D, new frontiers were opening up and it felt like everything they were doing was revolutionary so they put in extra effort and basically created the greatest games ever known to mankind.
Mario 64
Sonic Adventure
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Final Fantasy VII
These are all still the very best entries in each of those respective franchises and absolutely no one can dispute this.
StateofMajora
Banned
That's a you problem my dude
Spaceman292
Banned
It's not bad. It looks really cool. OoT doesn't even have art, it's just whatever N64 could run.
Nah all those patterns you have to get right, meeting character A, Character B, Character C, Character D and so forth all at certain times on certain days in certain places etc, then using the right item while wearing the right mask to get it to trigger the right thing. Yeah you’ll no doubt say you did, but then you would wouldn’t you.
StateofMajora
Banned
It sounds like you just didn't want to explore and wanted things to be over fast. Which I could see if you were a small kid, and i'm not saying the game isn't challenging. I'm sitting here thinking about all the masks and can't reasonably think of an obscure one that I didn't eventually figure out. I did however have to put the game down until I was 12 when I could finally be arsed to beat the stone tower temple.
StateofMajora
Banned
Rated E for everyone. lolMajora is the Empire Strikes Back of Zeldas: Darker, weirder and better.
"We shall greet the morning... together"
You and I both know you didn’t finish the game without looking up any help whatsoever. So carry on pretending. And as for you giving me advice how to play it, hilarious! You admit you were younger than 12 when the game came out meaning I was playing Zelda games around the time you were born. Relax man, I said the game was brilliant in the rest of the post you cut from the quote box. Chill. Smoke some weed or something, it’s fine.
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J
JeremyEtcetera
Unconfirmed Member
So which indie/AA dev personally insulted you?
StateofMajora
Banned
Bro I think it's clear who is upset lol.
I didn't need a guide to beat the temples, get the masks and finish the game. The only pretender is you for not admitting you're not smart enough to beat it on your own, or you lacked patience.
Neither of us is upset. But one of us is a fanboy with a majoras avatar who took exception to one bit of my post, in a post where I praised the game massively. This is why I like games but don’t like nerds, or try to be one myself. You types are too fussy over every little throwaway comment.
StateofMajora
Banned
I'm just saying man, you're the one who : Essentially called me a whippersnapper, and now a fanboy and a nerd (on a gaming forum), but i'm upset!
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Rean no Kiseki
Banned
Hmmmm that's a long list, it's going to take some time...
I'm just saying man, you're the one who : Essentially called me a whippersnapper, and now a fanboy and a nerd (on a gaming forum), but i'm upset!
The public can decide for themselves if you were upset by my post and whether they believe you beat Majora’s Mask without seeking any help whatsoever. Anyone who has finished the game knows you’re lying, so it was hilarious seeing you come back and say exactly what I said you’d say.
I also loved how for you it was “I couldn’t be arsed to beat the Stone Temple til I was 12!” Instead of “I was too small and shit at the game to beat the Stone Temple even using the official strategy guide. Plus I missed a bunch of obscure items and masks I needed, so I simply waited til Youtube was invented then watched a guide and finished the game.”
All that plus FF Tactics in 98.
MeteorVII
Member
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Bakkus
Member
Wasn't it E10+?
Anyways to answer the question: No. Nothing else comes close. The other ones I can think of like Square's FF output from 7-10 and I guess MGS' development team did alright from 1-3, but those have already been mentioned. We also have Atlus' SMT output on the PS2 from 2003-2008. But nothing comes close to MM. The way they manage to make something which was to begin with so similar, and make it feel so unique is just mindblowing.
Man, i wish Koizumi would return to the series.
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StateofMajora
Banned
E10+ wasn't a thing back then, it was either E or KA (kid to adult) before that
E10+ was for the 3ds version
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fart town usa
Gold Member
Man, I'm totally fine with people not liking TP as much as I do but I really can't wrap my head around the hate that the game receives. I think it's absolutely fantastic. I could go on and on but I'll just leave it at that. I will say though, I'm glad I enjoy it as much as I do because it's one of those games that I always get absorbed in. Currently playing TP HD right now and I just absolutely love it.
To each their own.
Also, and I realize that most people aren't able to have this setup but TP in S-Video on a CRT looks fantastic. It does look rough though in RCA on a HD TV, but that applies to anything with RCA and a modern television (or old television for that matter).
Meesh
Member
By the old Hylian gods and the new, you are preaching to the Kokiri choir bro.
OoT had such a wonderful awareness of 3d space and z-targeting made combat and exploring a lot of fun.
So many amazing characters in both Ocarina and Majoras. What I love about how they were portrayed is that they seemed to have so much going on behind the scenes, so much back story to be imagined because of what's implied. And everything just felt plain magical!!! When was the last time you felt "magic" when engaging with characters and exploring a game?
To be quite honest, these games kept me gaming. Made the future of the gaming landscape so hopeful and bright. There was no telling where Nintendo might go from there and which developers may be influenced because of these successes.
These two are much more than "simple videogames". They represent an artful take on the interactive medium that no one had ever seen before. And the direct competition with Sony and the equally mind blowing and genre defining FF7? Golden age gaming history greatness.
OoT and MM are so relevant they're referred to every time there's a Zelda announcement. Every. Time. They're the benchmarks each Zelda aspires to and for good reason. Because the greatness of those two games isn't solely about the dungeons, the characters, the story, or any other technical aspect.... its about the impact they had on the industry.
They deserve 35th anniversary gold remakes.
We won't get them... but they'll always have a special place in my library and heart.
Edit: soooo... they're anomalies of a sort I guess???
OoT had such a wonderful awareness of 3d space and z-targeting made combat and exploring a lot of fun.
So many amazing characters in both Ocarina and Majoras. What I love about how they were portrayed is that they seemed to have so much going on behind the scenes, so much back story to be imagined because of what's implied. And everything just felt plain magical!!! When was the last time you felt "magic" when engaging with characters and exploring a game?
To be quite honest, these games kept me gaming. Made the future of the gaming landscape so hopeful and bright. There was no telling where Nintendo might go from there and which developers may be influenced because of these successes.
These two are much more than "simple videogames". They represent an artful take on the interactive medium that no one had ever seen before. And the direct competition with Sony and the equally mind blowing and genre defining FF7? Golden age gaming history greatness.
OoT and MM are so relevant they're referred to every time there's a Zelda announcement. Every. Time. They're the benchmarks each Zelda aspires to and for good reason. Because the greatness of those two games isn't solely about the dungeons, the characters, the story, or any other technical aspect.... its about the impact they had on the industry.
They deserve 35th anniversary gold remakes.
We won't get them... but they'll always have a special place in my library and heart.
Edit: soooo... they're anomalies of a sort I guess???
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Phunkydiabetic
Banned
Don't forget the GTAIII 2001-GTA Vice City 2002 insanity
SnapShot
Member
It would be if it didn't have those annoying bug hunts
Spaceman292
Banned
True. At least they lowered the amount of bugs in the remaster.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I used a guide for some side quests, but I finished the main tasks of the game without a guide.
Cutty Flam
Banned
As a kid (think I was nine at the time) it took a day or two of failure before I got to the point of knowing what needed to be done and how to get past the first cycle and thus to the first save owl. It takes some getting used to, but once you get used to it there is nothing like that pressure of having only 72 hrs to accomplish saving. In a way, the three day system utilized in MM brings to life all the feelings of the inhabitants within the world of (or land of) Termina. There was something about the time system that brought more realism to the game. It brought so much livelihood to the game itself. All the characters have their schedules, their routines, their lives to live in real time almost. This was unheard of at the time, in the year 2000. The 3 Day Cycle allowed for some of the greatest sidequests in gaming, period. The writing, the emotions, the in-game situations and events constantly developing over these 72 hrs - it all makes for an unforgettable story filled to the brim with beautiful complexity
HE1NZ
Banned
It's just bunch of people going from A to B one day, next day from B to C, etc. You guess the right mask and do something at the right time you'll get a reward. There's nothing emotional and unforgettable about it.
Soodanim
Member
The game isn’t fresh in my mind, and it’s been a long time since I first played it, but the only one that comes to mind as maybe needing a guide is the engaged couple that spanned across all of the days and concludes right at the end of the cycle. Even then, I imagine it’s fine because the game as a whole is well designed. I might replay the game just to see how it is, because I don’t get the same impression from the game as you and I’ve forgotten all of the obscure stuff.
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Cutty Flam
Banned
Never realized it but that does seem to be the case. I guess things changed somewhere down the line in the mid 2000s and games started receiving a lot more development time. It can even be seen in TLoZ series if you just look at the 3D Zelda games
OOT = 1998
MM = 2000
TWW = 2003
TP = 2006
SS = 2011
BOTW = 2017
JimboJones
Member
StateofMajora
Banned
Yeah, games like TP and Re4 were made for crts, covers the low textures well and makes them pop. On my Wii with component cables hooked up to my late model trinitron TP looks breathtaking, really nice lighting and effects. Played it on my x900e lcd with component as well(I must have beaten the game over 10 times through the years), it still is a nice looking game but nowhere near as it does on the tube.
Honestly, it's the best, most consistent Zelda if we are looking at the quality of its dungeons and overall design polish.
Usually when I read someone criticize TP it's usually "I hated the wolf lol" or "it takes too long to start" or "it looks hideous on my vizio lcd with composite cables" (no shit!)
Which tells me A. they don't like different things and B. are not patient lol.
MeteorVII
Member
Right, so thanks for proving my point about how impossible it would be for you to refute it considering how you had to instantly resort to memes as opposed to an actual rebuttal.
StateofMajora
Banned
See that's the thing, that quest is the one that people say is the hardest, but the if you start talking to Anju she literally tells you what time to meet here and subsequently you learn all the other times to meet Kafei as well. Once you find out you can't follow Kafei, you just get on with the dungeons until you find sakon the thief later in the game and you can go from there.
That's why they bomber notebook is there, and why the character events are broken up into days to tell you if there's anything left need done. Everything can be done with patience, granted it is very hard for a small kid which is another reason I think the rating is complete BS and it should be teen. I couldn't beat either Ocarina or Majora personally when they first came out.
JimboJones
Member
I mean there's not much else to say. Sonic Adventure is a pretty bad game by most people's metrics.Right, so thanks for proving my point about how impossible it would be for you to refute it considering how you had to instantly resort to memes as opposed to an actual rebuttal.
MeteorVII
Member
Next time, if you could actually research what you’re talking about before pulling shit outta your ass, that would be great.
You’d look less stupid, then.
JimboJones
Member
Every rerelease of that game has had vastly lower scores, even by the GC release the gameplay had aged like milk on a warm summers day.
Next time, if you could actually research what you’re talking about before pulling shit outta your ass, that would be great.
You’d look less stupid, then.
The other games you listed have had rereleases and held their score far better.
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MeteorVII
Member
Uh-oh. You made yourself look completely braindead this time!
That first image is the game’s rating now. As in...that’s what people recently have rated the game.
And by “rerelease” you mean ports? As in...very poor ports? Which those other games didn’t have, hence why they weren’t as criticised?
Nice try, though. You kinda stumbled and fell flat on your face, but the tap dancing was very entertaining while it lasted.
I mean, true. Sonic Adventure is by far the best game out of that list, you are indeed correct about that.
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JimboJones
Member
I will just assume you are a troll account lol
MeteorVII
Member
That’s a pretty weird response to being factually disproven.
Soodanim
Member
I thought that might have been the case - the Bomber’s notebook is a good example of it being well designed.
I don’t think the rating should necessarily be informed by the difficulty, that’s a can of worms that would shake the industry in wholly detrimental ways. The game can be finished without a full collection of masks, so all that’s actually required is the 4 main bosses and Majora.
Breath of the Wild should have had running speed bunny ears though, just saying.
Krappadizzle
Member
Super Mario 1985
Super Mario 3 1988.
3 absolutely doing everything better and adding tons of new mechanics and ideas.
Super Mario 3 1988.
3 absolutely doing everything better and adding tons of new mechanics and ideas.