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The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword |OT| Home of Punkin' Chunkin' Champion 2011
- Thread starter Amir0x
- Start date
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SecretMoblin
Member
I think people are just going to have to accept that there is no universal Zelda game.
...except for Link's Awakening.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
I haven't played beyond the first dungeon so I can't give my personal opinion but the obvious flaw I see with your argument here is that you haven't said anything about the quality of the quests in between the dungeons. No one was asking Nintendo to put crappy fetch quests in the game to mix things up a bit.
Hopefully I won't mind any of that stuff though (I'm trying to stay positive).
I feel like Nintendo should return to a OoT > MM or SMG > SMG 2 release schedule. It seems ridiculous to me that they spend five years making all these assets, then never using them again (Link's crossbow training doesn't really count). They should just make a conventional Zelda first, then release one that is super experimental two years later with reused assets. If we got Majora's Mask this way, I'm sure we can get something just as awesome.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
I haven't even played them so I wouldn't know. I'm just saying that if the quests are crappy then I can understand the complaints and it pokes a hole in Bit-Bit's argument.The biggest flaw of your conclusion is that you think they are crappy.
radioheadrule83
Banned
They're fun, but they still feel like mandatory minigames couched in language thats meant to make them seem significant to the story - ultimately I just see through it. I like the idea of having my knowledge of the geography tested, but I'd prefer it be done with environmental riddles (think Arkham City's Riddler Riddles) or with solid story based reasons for traversing the land again (for those who haven't played it - the game DOES do that as well. Returning to one area of the game was my favourite, most quirky area of the game). The excuse for doing the trials though just seemed kind of weak... I'm being tested by the powers that be so I can grow in spirit, so I can gain entry to and be tested by a dungeon, so I can recieve some extra power. Like I say, I had some fun with a couple of them, but I never want to see these mechanics / gameplay-segments returned in a mandatory fashion. It will annoy *some* people this time, and it'll be totally unacceptable next time. It felt like whoever had come up with the Guardians idea in Phantom Hourglass was so in love with it that he not only returned it for Spirit Tracks, but he'd foisted it onto this game as well. Its been done enough. They need to drop it for future releases, Zelda can do better.
Man, they got so close with the music. It can be really incredible at times, but I'm so disappointed that they still managed to slip in a number of incidental midi music that only serves to detract from the atmosphere. Something like Faron Woods could really have used a beautiful, sweeping theme or simply relied on ambient sound, but instead they slap in this boring midi tune that adds nothing. I also dislike how they insist on using combat music. This has never worked well in any of the 3D Zelda titles (for me, at least). The first dungeon has a very nice piece of music associated with it, but every time you wander near an enemy the music is interrupted by that awful tune.
I still can't believe they brought back that god awful shop music from OoT.
I'm sure there are people who like this stuff, but I can't help but feel that the music of OoT (which I was never a big fan of) pretty much ruined the audio side of the series for over a decade. They went from Zelda 3 and Link's Awakening (both of which featured incredible tunes) and then never managed to match them. Some of the music used in Skyward Sword is remarkable and feels like a return to form, but then they fall back on the same midi crap they've been throwing around since 1998.
Aside from that (and the constant interruption from Fi) the game has been pretty amazing thus far. Just needed to rant a little.
I still can't believe they brought back that god awful shop music from OoT.
I'm sure there are people who like this stuff, but I can't help but feel that the music of OoT (which I was never a big fan of) pretty much ruined the audio side of the series for over a decade. They went from Zelda 3 and Link's Awakening (both of which featured incredible tunes) and then never managed to match them. Some of the music used in Skyward Sword is remarkable and feels like a return to form, but then they fall back on the same midi crap they've been throwing around since 1998.
Aside from that (and the constant interruption from Fi) the game has been pretty amazing thus far.
Just needed to rant a little.Wrong. Sorry. Everything between dungeon 4 and 5 is gold. People aren't complaining about between dungeon content, they're complaining about lazy pre-dungeon content. Being forced to fly from one area to another, and go through an area you've already been to, just to collect one arbitrary item to you need, before immediately flying back to the original area is not a quest. It's busywork. Between dungeon content in this game ranges from inspired to cynical.
Technically it's the Wind Waker arrangement. Beedle always has that music. It's his theme.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I love how using big keys is another puzzle now.
They're not. So no holes in my arguments. If anything, Nintendo paces it just right. Sometimes between dungeons you'll be fighting major bosses, other times you'll be doing sneaking misssions, and while even other times you'll be solving tons of puzzles just to traverse the land.
And the ones that requires you to collect a certain number of things takes like 5 minutes to do. (since there's a time limit)
The only one I can think of at the top of my head that requires you to do that is the Water Basic fetch. And even that had an escort section added to it. Something that I enjoyed to do very much. Again, I don't understand the complaints since I thought the pacing in the game is just perfect.
You've probably figured this out by now, but you can go ask the
old man
Pumpkin' Bumpkin'
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Awesome, glad to hear it. Hopefully I agree with you.
Refreshment.01
Member
Do you think they aren't reusing assets for Skyward Sword?
Nintendo is reusing a lot of stuff, like animation, sound and textures. In term of graphics its somewhat hidden because of the "impressionist" shading effect.
Probably the reason why it took so long was because indecision of what implementation the Wii remote would have. I think this is pretty much confirmed on one of the Iwata asks.
yes. i've always said this. but then, i think dynamic music in games in general is an overrated and overused concept anyway. it too often devolves into what is usually referred to as "mickey mouse music" in film: shallow incidental music with a reliance on cues that consistently underlines the simplest and most apparent emotion or action on screen without ever adding anything or contrasting the obvious. when instead a game like zelda should rely on atmosphere, and combat within a given area should be part of that atmosphere and not feel like a constant distraction or disruption.
edit: remember the "midna in distress" section in tp with that beautiful solo piano tune playing?... and then you'd get close to an enemy and the whole atmosphere would be ruined. i don't understand why, if you MUST insist on combat music (and tp's was particularly irritating), you can't simply turn off the trigger for an isolated section like that. why didn't that bother any of the designers?
I doubt Nintendo would use SS assets in their next projects. Didn't see any TP assets after it.
You enjoyed that bit?
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
I feel dumb for asking this, but how does one get the Boss Rush mode :/
Yes, that Midna section was maddening. One of the few great pieces of music in that game spoiled time and again by enemy encounters. Are they just trying to be meta or do they really think it sounds good?!
The only character in common between TP and SS is Link so I don't believe very much animation is reused. Can't say for sound but I haven't seen any reused textures at all. I suppose a 3DS zelda with the same style is not unlikely so they can reuse a lot of things.
YES that is easily the worst offender. I remember i was so cought up in the moment and then... the battle music kicked in. I literally wanted to throw the controller at the screen. The entire setting was so beautiful, I found myself avoiding enemies just because of the music. Thankfully it didn't happen with
your first encounter with Fi
Late in the game you talk to
the Thunder Dragon
What... is there something wrong with that section as well?
radioheadrule83
Banned
I actually think it might sound strange now to play a Zelda where the only sound of the combat is the purcussive sound of swords and shields. Like a comedy without canned laughter when they still have the pauses. Even in Link to the Past they had some great noises - the swishes, disappearing badguy noise, the BOW-OW-OW-oW of a dying boss... I'd personally get a kick out of hearing that BOW-OW-OW noise followed by exploding boss-parts again... I love the bosses that explode in sections because it reminds me of LTTP.
I don't see why the noises couldn't be orchestra hits or something though. Why not? Its not like the length of the notes in MIDI is dynamic.
The soundtrack for me is a little on the soft side compared to Mario Galaxy - as in - its really soft, very little bombast. I kind of want to replay the game on headphones so I can enjoy the music, because all the ambient noise of my shared house was enough to distract me from enjoying quite a lot of it. Having listened to some tracks privately on YouTube, I'm like - "wow, that's really awesome". There are no tracks with the bombast of the Super Mario Galaxy soundtrack though -- really, a Zelda soundtrack should sound every bit as huge. Pop your soundtrack CD on and listen to that old Darkworld theme or the thundering awesomeness of the classic Zelda theme. That's what this game could have really done with as part of the game-playing experience. The Ballad of the Godess is at the appropriate level when it kicks in, but most other stuff - like the sky theme is more gently sweeping.
I don't see why the noises couldn't be orchestra hits or something though. Why not? Its not like the length of the notes in MIDI is dynamic.
The soundtrack for me is a little on the soft side compared to Mario Galaxy - as in - its really soft, very little bombast. I kind of want to replay the game on headphones so I can enjoy the music, because all the ambient noise of my shared house was enough to distract me from enjoying quite a lot of it. Having listened to some tracks privately on YouTube, I'm like - "wow, that's really awesome". There are no tracks with the bombast of the Super Mario Galaxy soundtrack though -- really, a Zelda soundtrack should sound every bit as huge. Pop your soundtrack CD on and listen to that old Darkworld theme or the thundering awesomeness of the classic Zelda theme. That's what this game could have really done with as part of the game-playing experience. The Ballad of the Godess is at the appropriate level when it kicks in, but most other stuff - like the sky theme is more gently sweeping.
Refreshment.01
Member
Im not exactly suggesting that zoukka. I was just replying to divvy, who thinks Nintendo took 5 years to release Skyward because (among other thinks) they had a lot of work to do with assets. For what i can tell watching Skyward , it uses assets from past games in the series. Textures, animations for Link, sounds. Adding to this, probably Nintendo had a ton of concept art from WW and TP around applied to the game since some things look similar in style, for example to the Midna tron like world. The
Gate of time
Fix your spoiler.
I agree with part of this: "Mickey mouse music" is terrible, but I don't think it's fair to compare what's going on in Skyward Sword to that. Dynamic music is more than those stupid music cues or complete music shifts. The dungeon music, for example, has layers of music fading in and out depending on what room you are in. The bazaar changes instruments on the fly, matching the atmosphere of the shops. Percussion is added to the flying theme when you near danger, etc etc. Dynamic music, when used right, creates a nice subtle shift in atmosphere and keeps things fresh.
The thing that's really bothering me right now is the item catch breaking up the awesome cutscenes. I mean, seriously? Was it really important to let me know that I received the (post-third dungeon story spoiler)
harp when Zelda threw it to me
i don't know. it doesn't even matter if the battle music was any good, really. i don't get how you can't see/hear almost IMMEDIATELY that this ruins that particular section. but this is the kind of stubborn and puzzling decision in the midst of something brilliant that's become so typical of nintendo. and i can't help but feel that it often has to do with a blind reliance on tradition for tradition's sake, without concern for anything else. it is done because "that's how we've always done it" or because it was done in an earlier extremely successful entry in the franchise and now "we're gonna stick with it no matter what".
This makes the ost more enjoyable, imo, instead of trying to make everything sound epic. It's the combination of of notes that creates atmosphere, not how hard you bang a drum.
wow, that is totally not true! in fact, i was frequently thinking to myself: this sounds totally like mario galaxy! i'll link whatever youtube videos i can find to prove this later
...although i have to say that the more "bombastic" tracks usually play during cutscenes or are relegated to one-off item/boss/character cues instead of the dungeons or the general overworld.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Yeah the boss music was great for that... I guess what I mean is that galloping around Hyrule Field or using your pegasus boots around the light world in Link to the Past - you always had this awesome melody and backbeat that just screamed adventure. The sky theme and province music in this game is softer... the sky theme reminds me of the music from Stargate (the movie). Which I love. But I dunno... I miss the use of a general adventuring theme that drills itself into my head.
I took that as a deliberate joke, like when
.
I took that as a deliberate joke, like when
Zelda told Link to stop goofing around after he does it on top of the Goddess Statue when receiving the sailcloth
Yep, it's pretty clear that this is what's happening. Ocarina was a huge success and all mainline Zelda games are stuck following that mold.
This isn't necessarily an issue in and of itself, but there were some missteps made back in 1998 that haven't been addressed as a result of its success. They seem afraid to truly commit to something new.
The hardware is now powerful enough to realize a fully open map ala Zelda 3 packed with details. We don't NEED a "Navi" character anymore and the world need not be so divided. They seem unwilling to allow people to discover the world for themselves and force every single mechanic down your throat at every opportunity.
Some islands have multiple chests. You might've missed the unlocked one.
Just finished the second dungeon. Great game so far, the
stuff was great, as was the dungeon. This game is the closest 3D Zelda has come to LttP and LA.
Also, once I stopped trying to use the remote as a sword and more like a mouse gesture, the combat became so much better. And the flying controls are incredible.
Eldin Volcano
Also, once I stopped trying to use the remote as a sword and more like a mouse gesture, the combat became so much better. And the flying controls are incredible.
IAmtheFMan
Member
Totally agree, though I think the shift was fairly intentional. We went from having strong thematic elements to ambient backgrounds, ESPECIALLY in the dungeons. SS does somewhat better then say some of the others, but it's still not to the form of the earlier titles.
They should check super metroid...
radioheadrule83
Banned
I'm glad there are other people who feel this way. Hub-like design, companions and instrument central plots... just not needed anymore. They are the shackles Nintendo unwittingly placed on the series with Ocarina.
I do personally think this game is the best 3D Zelda, I would love to be able to give Nintendo some honest feedback about its flaws and what I feel like they need to recapture. I do think Aonuma aspires to LTTP more and more -- I think a lot of his choices in the last three games have been inspired by it, the symphony concerts paid a particular reverence to LTTP too, and I'd much prefer he move towards reimagining Zelda along those lines and building a cohesive whole world as you describe rather than retreading Ocarina tropes.
Question: How much did Fi really bother you guys in the first dungeon?
I've read complaints about stuff like her popping up for obvious puzzles and telling that your hearts are low, but I only really saw those if I summoned her by hitting down on the d-pad. Is that the stuff that's annoying everyone or am I just blanking out her popping up a bunch without being called? Or does it get worse in later dungeons?
I've read complaints about stuff like her popping up for obvious puzzles and telling that your hearts are low, but I only really saw those if I summoned her by hitting down on the d-pad. Is that the stuff that's annoying everyone or am I just blanking out her popping up a bunch without being called? Or does it get worse in later dungeons?
I don't know about "as well" since it has been the only section I have outright hated so far.
Some islands have more than one chest. You must've unlocked another one on that island than the one you checked. Unlocked chests are also brighter and shinier than locked ones.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Considering they clearly messed up the % for gold skulls and regular skulls, has anyone found an enemy that drops regular skulls more often than gold ones?
I have found a shortcut to almost every rare or uncommon material there is, but regular skulls aren't even meant to be so rare, so I'm not sure if there's an easier approach to getting them.
I have found a shortcut to almost every rare or uncommon material there is, but regular skulls aren't even meant to be so rare, so I'm not sure if there's an easier approach to getting them.