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[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Jokes on them they'll need a PSN login to investigate

 

[feynoob]

Jokes on them they'll need a PSN login to investigate

Do polish need a permission?

 

[Hudo]

Kurwa

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Do polish need a permission?

Only if they don't want to be mythical country 119

 

[Bartski]

Polskaaaaaa biało-czwerwoni

 

[Soodanim]

I'll be surprised if Steam gets in trouble. Do they do anything anti-competitive? Seems pretty laid-back to me.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I smell an Epic showdow. EPIC!

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

keep searching, you are not going to find anything

 

[Zathalus]

I'm struggling to think of in what way Steam is anti-competitive.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

rofif since you're a polish guy, I guess this might be related to certain games on Steam (and maybe PSN too) having the PLN price above the euro zone like what happened with Hades II recently?

 

[feynoob]

Only if they don't want to be mythical country 119

Good luck

 

[Bojji]

Kurwa

Polskaaaaaa biało-czwerwoni

Steam nas kiedyś nieźle z cenami zrobił w konia.

 

[feynoob]

Kurwa

dlaczego powiedział do mnie „pieprz się”.

 

[Esca]

Steam allows other sites to sell keys to redeem on steam from the dev/pub so I didn't see a problem with them

PSN on the other hand you're SOL. If you want a digital game on a Sony platform you have no option but to buy from their store

 

[rofif]

rofif since you're a polish guy, I guess this might be related to certain games on Steam (and maybe PSN too) having the PLN price above the euro zone like what happened with Hades II recently?

yes it is. There is a campaign started by website lowcygier.pl (website aiming to help you find good gaming deals).
Essentially, pc game prices are some of the highest in the world for whatever fucking reason.
For example, Normal retail media markt price for stellar blade physical is 339pln. That's 85$.
That's why I never buy there. I usually get games from other smaller retailers who get games from abroad. then it's 60-70.
For steam, I get games from cdkeys. It never ever makes any sense to get directly from steam. You are paying more.

We don't have these crazy taxes like brazil or anything so it is not explainable this way.
We earn way less than west but get west or higher prices. That's plain unfair.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

yes it is. There is a campaign started by website lowcygier.pl (website aiming to help you find good gaming deals).
Essentially, pc game prices are some of the highest in the world for whatever fucking reason.
For example, Normal retail media markt price for stellar blade physical is 339pln. That's 85$.
That's why I never buy there. I usually get games from other smaller retailers who get games from abroad. then it's 60-70.
For steam, I get games from cdkeys. It never ever makes any sense to get directly from steam. You are paying more.

We don't have these crazy taxes like brazil or anything so it is not explainable this way.
We earn way less than west but get west or higher prices. That's plain unfair.

That's pretty messed up. Hopefully the campaign has success.

 

[Hudo]

dlaczego powiedział do mnie „pieprz się”.

Nie wiem

But for real, the one time I was in Poland, I got by fairly well with kurwa. (Beautiful country, tho)

 

[Guilty_AI]

yes it is. There is a campaign started by website lowcygier.pl (website aiming to help you find good gaming deals).
Essentially, pc game prices are some of the highest in the world for whatever fucking reason.
For example, Normal retail media markt price for stellar blade physical is 339pln. That's 85$.
That's why I never buy there. I usually get games from other smaller retailers who get games from abroad. then it's 60-70.
For steam, I get games from cdkeys. It never ever makes any sense to get directly from steam. You are paying more.

We don't have these crazy taxes like brazil or anything so it is not explainable this way.
We earn way less than west but get west or higher prices. That's plain unfair.

Seems to be a problem with Steam's default price recommendation. They recommed the same price across the EU since there can be no purchase restriction between regions, but the PLN value they used for the calculation is probably outdated, it has drastically increased in value for the last 2 years after all. Devs can still alter it however they like it though, i believe steam'll probably correct the price recommendation with some pressure.

For physical goods though, i have no clue.

 

[Bojji]

Nie wiem

But for real, the one time I was in Poland, I got by fairly well with kurwa. (Beautiful country, tho)

"Kurwa" is as versatile as "Fuck" (or even more) and can be used for almost anything. It's the first word that foreigners should learn.

Spoiler

 

[feynoob]

Nie wiem

But for real, the one time I was in Poland, I got by fairly well with kurwa. (Beautiful country, tho)

Beatiful country. Just try to not to mess with them

 

[Guilty_AI]

Beatiful country. Just try to not to mess with them

 

[StereoVsn]

It’s unfair competition from Gaben since he didn’t close down Steam when Timmy Epic opened his amazing EGS Emporium! Here is a secret EGS HQ picture from back in the day.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

BOBER KURWA!

 

[Jinzo Prime]

I guess it isn't fair that Microsoft sucks ass can't compete.

 

[Generic]

In my country Sony demands developers to price their digital games in dollar. As a result, games on the PS Store cost more than in any other digital store.

Some games on PS Store cost 3x more than on Steam. It's ridiculous.

 

[killatopak]

Steam allows other sites to sell keys to redeem on steam from the dev/pub so I didn't see a problem with them

PSN on the other hand you're SOL. If you want a digital game on a Sony platform you have no option but to buy from their store

I got a couple of games on the Playstation from buying them on humble bundle.

 

[Three]

Is the Polish developer/Publisher CDPR?

 

[adamsapple]

Jokes on them they'll need a PSN login to investigate

 

[Embearded]

"These two are doing good, something fishy is going on"

 

[MrRenegade]

Video game market - preliminary investigation

Could there have been restrictive practices in the video game sales market from which game developers, platform providers and gamers may be losing out? The President of UOKiK has initiated preliminary investigation concerning the case in question. In addition, UOKiK’s staff have inspected the...

uokik.gov.pl

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I'll be surprised if Steam gets in trouble. Do they do anything anti-competitive? Seems pretty laid-back to me.

For all Americans this will be hard to understand: ask anyone doing economic theory and they will tell you perfect competition with no government intervention will result at the end in a monopoly.

In Europe the approach has always been to prevent any company attaining monopolistic position through regulation because it's bad for competition, and bad for users. So in the US you would go: "hur dur, they were just better, that's why they are a monopoly" in Europe we go: "I don't give a fuck, we have to protect the market from any company emerging as dominant".

 

[Soodanim]

For all Americans this will be hard to understand: ask anyone doing economic theory and they will tell you perfect competition with no government intervention will result at the end in a monopoly.

In Europe the approach has always been to prevent any company attaining monopolistic position through regulation because it's bad for competition, and bad for users. So in the US you would go: "hur dur, they were just better, that's why they are a monopoly" in Europe we go: "I don't give a fuck, we have to protect the market from any company emerging as dominant".

1. I'm not American
2. My question still stands: what anti-competitive practices have Steam partaken in?

Valve have a store, but no publisher is forced to be exclusive and other places can sell Steam keys for whatever price they want.

EU don't just punish success for the fuck of it, and Valve aren't operating like Apple

 

[Three]

1. I'm not American
2. My question still stands: what anti-competitive practices have Steam partaken in?

Valve have a store, but no publisher is forced to be exclusive and other places can sell Steam keys for whatever price they want.

EU don't just punish success for the fuck of it, and Valve aren't operating like Apple

This is false unless it changed recently. Steam control key releases and limit the amount. You are also not officially allowed to sell it for less, though some resellers do.

Valve limits keys provided to developers or publishers to 5,000 keys for use with other stores and platforms, but does not guarantee delivery of any additional keys.

Valve requires that buyers of these keys on third-party platforms do not receive better terms than Steam customers.

if your sole business is selling Steam Keys and not offering value to Steam customers, your request may be denied and you may lose the privilege to request keys

 

[IDKFA]

"Kurwa" is as versatile as "Fuck" (or even more) and can be used for almost anything. It's the first word that foreigners should learn.

Spoiler

For real, my father in law would use Kurwa every other word in a sentence. Damn, I miss him so much

 

[Topher]

This is false unless it changed recently. Steam control key releases and limit the amount. You are also not officially allowed to sell it for less, though some resellers do.

Not sure how accurate that is since keys are regularly sold at cheaper prices from official key resellers like GMG and Fantatical. I just bought Ghost of Tsushima for $10 from Fanatical for $10 less than Steam.

Also, "terms" may not refer to price. Could be that is saying it cannot include DLC or add-ons that are not included on Steam.

Edit: Found this:

"

• It's OK to run a discount for Steam Keys on different stores at different times as long as you plan to give a comparable offer to Steam customers within a reasonable amount of time."

Steam Keys (Steamworks Documentation)

partner.steamgames.com

Yeah.....not sure.

 

[Soodanim]

This is false unless it changed recently. Steam control key releases and limit the amount. You are also not officially allowed to sell it for less, though some resellers do.

Thanks, it was a genuine question so thanks for answering.

I still don't get how that counts in anyone's eyes as anti-competitive though, as that's the market leader being more generous than any of the other stores on the open platform that is PC.

PSN I get. Walled garden etc, it's more understandable that questions would be asked even if nothing comes of it.

 

[Three]

Not sure how accurate that is since keys are regularly sold at cheaper prices from official key resellers like GMG and Fantatical. I just bought Ghost of Tsushima for $10 from Fanatical for $10 less than Steam.

Yeah I mentioned resellers. Resellers are meant to be people who have bought/obtained the keys through some legitimate avenue already (normally from some region that is cheap) and can resell at whatever price they like but an official platform can't sell fresh keys cheaper. For example Devolver, EA, Take two etc can't sell their generated keys on their own store for cheaper.

 

[Topher]

Yeah I mentioned resellers. Resellers are meant to be people who have bought/obtained the keys through some legitimate avenue already (normally from some region that is cheap) and can resell at whatever price they like but an official platform can't sell fresh keys cheaper. For example Devolver, EA, Take two etc can't sell their generated keys on their own store for cheaper.

Ah.....ok, thanks. Too early.

I need more coffee.

 

[Three]

Thanks, it was a genuine question so thanks for answering.

I still don't get how that counts in anyone's eyes as anti-competitive though, as that's the market leader being more generous than any of the other stores on the open platform that is PC.

They keys themselves aren't, but limiting and controlling price might be the same outcome of protecting a walled garden. It's a way of protecting their Steam revenue like PSN protects its. You can argue that both Steam and PSN have garnered that userbase and have a right to do as they please but they both have control on competition on their userbase. A guaranteed 5000 keys isn't going to change that control. Especially for big games that sell millions.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Not sure if Steam still has that policy where software listed for sale on there can't be offered for less somewhere else. That's about the only thing that could bite them in regards to anti-competitive practice, IMO. Their dominance seems organically built outside that.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Not sure if Steam still has that policy where software listed for sale on there can't be offered for less somewhere else. That's about the only thing that could bite them in regards to anti-competitive practice, IMO. Their dominance seems organically built outside that.

Think that's only if you're selling steam keys. You can still price your game cheaper on GOG or Epic Games etc,

 

[Guilty_AI]

They keys themselves aren't, but limiting and controlling price might be the same outcome of protecting a walled garden. It's a way of protecting their Steam revenue like PSN protects its. You can argue that both Steam and PSN have garnered that userbase and have a right to do as they please but they both have control on competition on their userbase. A guaranteed 5000 keys isn't going to change that control. Especially for big games that sell millions.

Steam doesn't control game prices either. Devs can set their games for whatever price they want (i think there's a minimum value of $1 or something if the game isn't free), choose regional pricing as they see fit, run their own sales, etc.

PSN however, there have been devs on the past saying Sony has a lot of say on the prices and are in total control of sales. I think there could be something there.

 

[Three]

Steam doesn't control game prices either. Devs can set their games for whatever price they want (i think there's a minimum value of $1 or something if the game isn't free), choose regional pricing as they see fit, run their own sales, etc.

PSN however, there have been devs on the past saying Sony has a lot of say on the prices and are in total control of sales. I think there could be something there.

PS doesn't control third party game prices or sales. The only thing they might control in sales is listing something as originally $100 but pretending you're giving it away for $10 in a sale for 3 months or more but this is a regional law thing when it comes to promotions.

 

[The Pleasure]

 

[Guilty_AI]

PS doesn't control third party game prices or sales. The only thing they might control in sales is listing something as originally $100 but pretending you're giving it away for $10 in a sale for 3 months or more but this is a regional law thing when it comes to promotions.

Dev Details Sony’s Frustrating Rules For Discounts And Promotion On PlayStation

A developer is taking Sony to task for how hard it is to promote or price games on PS4 or PS5.

www.forbes.com

Sony Demands Developer Changes Price On Other Platforms To Match Its Own

Salt and Sacrifice just recently launched. But not without some controversy as Sony wasn't happy about the game being sold cheaper elsewhere.

www.gamebyte.com

Lots of reports on the way they handle sales and game pricing. I do think there are things here for the UOKIK to scrutinize.

 

[Three]

Dev Details Sony’s Frustrating Rules For Discounts And Promotion On PlayStation

A developer is taking Sony to task for how hard it is to promote or price games on PS4 or PS5.

www.forbes.com

Sony Demands Developer Changes Price On Other Platforms To Match Its Own

Salt and Sacrifice just recently launched. But not without some controversy as Sony wasn't happy about the game being sold cheaper elsewhere.

www.gamebyte.com

Lots of reports on the way they handle sales and game pricing. I do think there are things here for the UOKIK to scrutinize.

That's not what it's saying. Try reading the Paul Tassi report you've posted. Nothing about PS setting the price a third party wants on PS. Also about price matching with other stores how come you're oblivious to the developer launching a class action against Valve/Steam? :

Regarding the Valve class action - Wolfire Games Blog

Dear gamers and game developers, I would like to explain why Wolfire Games is seeking to represent game developers in a class action suit against Valve Corporation. I felt that I had no choice, because I believe gamers and game developers are being harmed by Valve's conduct. While I am ...

blog.wolfire.com

 

[Guilty_AI]

That's not what it's saying. Try reading the Paul Tassi report you've posted. Nothing about PS setting the price a third party wants on PS. Also about price matching with other stores how come you're oblivious to the developer launching a class action against Valve/Steam? :

Regarding the Valve class action - Wolfire Games Blog

Dear gamers and game developers, I would like to explain why Wolfire Games is seeking to represent game developers in a class action suit against Valve Corporation. I felt that I had no choice, because I believe gamers and game developers are being harmed by Valve's conduct. While I am ...

blog.wolfire.com

I'm not, the "most favoured nation" clause the dev was claiming to be in place was shown to not exist at all and the lawsuit was dismissed.

Now its continued due to the allegation from the dev that Valve would supposedly delist games from steam that are sold for cheaper elsewhere, but they don't have any proof of that so its still under investigation.

 

[Three]

I'm not, the "most favoured nation" clause the dev was claiming to be in place was shown to not exist at all and the lawsuit was dismissed.

Now its continued due to the allegation from the dev that Valve would supposedly delist games from steam that are sold for cheaper elsewhere, but they don't have any proof of that so its still under investigation.

Why are you making things up? The judge said that Wolfire Games' "allegations are sufficient to plausibly allege unlawful conduct" and a separate class action was filed.

The judge said they need to file a new complaint because they did not describe how Wolfire directly suffered from an alleged reduction in output and/or quality. Instead, it only addressed the impact on the industry.
Valve lost the bid to dismiss the new claim and the new class action complaint is ongoing:

Valve Loses Bid to End Antitrust Case Over Steam Gaming Platform

Valve Corp. must face antitrust litigation over claims that “most favored nation” policies for its Steam distribution platform have driven up video game prices across the industry, a federal judge in Seattle ruled.

news.bloomberglaw.com

 

[Guilty_AI]

Why are you making things up? The judge said that Wolfire Games' "allegations are sufficient to plausibly allege unlawful conduct" and a separate class action was filed.

The judge said they need to file a new complaint because they did not describe how Wolfire directly suffered from an alleged reduction in output and/or quality. Instead, it only addressed the impact on the industry.
Valve lost the bid to dismiss the new claim and the new class action complaint is ongoing:

Valve Loses Bid to End Antitrust Case Over Steam Gaming Platform

Valve Corp. must face antitrust litigation over claims that “most favored nation” policies for its Steam distribution platform have driven up video game prices across the industry, a federal judge in Seattle ruled.

news.bloomberglaw.com

Additionally, it was claimed that Valve is enforcing pricing parity. The claim? “[Valve] imposes a [platform most-favored nation] regime to non-Steam-enabled games to ‘prevent price competition from rival storefronts’”.

This claim specifically was dismissed, however:

Now, the court acknowledges the more detailed claim that “a Steam account manager informed Plaintiff Wolfire that ‘it would delist any games available for sale at a lower price elsewhere, whether or not using Steam keys.’” And it wants to see if there’s more alleged evidence like that. So that claim can go to the next phase.

Like i said, thats the specific claim they want to investigate. There is no specific clause on steam terms demanding price parity.