-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
"The problem with the gaming industry is that developers make too much"
- Thread starter kvothe
- Start date
RoninChaos
Member
I'm going to agree with this. With some games literally printing money, the people who work on them deserve to be compensated fairly. The guy who wrote this article is an ignorant asshole.
flarkminator
Member
Fuck everything about all of this.
I don't even own a car. I ride a bicycle I bought at Target to the train station every day, even during crunch and in the snow.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
Actually it is obscenely small in the Bay area or in NYC.
MemoryHumanity
Member
My head is full of fuck. One of the worst things I've ever read.
I H8 Memes
Member
Game Developers: "Sure we make a lot of money. But we spend a lot of money too"
Nah I'm jk. If anything the actual developers arent paid enough. I'm pretty sure that there are developers out there who could transition to the executive side of the business. Some have. Quite a few at smaller devs already run the business side themselves and many have in the past. The executives at a publisher like EA or Acti couldnt get a working game of tic tac toe out the door though.
Nah I'm jk. If anything the actual developers arent paid enough. I'm pretty sure that there are developers out there who could transition to the executive side of the business. Some have. Quite a few at smaller devs already run the business side themselves and many have in the past. The executives at a publisher like EA or Acti couldnt get a working game of tic tac toe out the door though.
Kinder Egg
Member
CliffyB owns a Ferrari which is worth way more than $70,000... can't be him
Chrissakes. Lower middle-class people pointing at other lower middle-class people and demanding they earn less is the kind of shit that's killing wages for everyone. If their bosses take your bait and oblige, that's not a victory for you. Making their job worth less makes your job worth less too, the savings don't get passed on.
Stop asking why other people earn so much, start asking why you don't.
Stop asking why other people earn so much, start asking why you don't.
I do Website Development for a living with around $65k. So my own experience is that $80k avg is quite a bit above mine. But of course, I only work a simple 40hrs a week, I hear a bunch of times how game developers have to have to work crazy hours and crunch a lot to get things done. So I wouldn't be surprised how much game developers make.
mugurumakensei
Member
Salaries are part of the reason costs are so high, but a lot of dev studios are in high cost of living areas.
200-300 guys at an average of 60k across all positions adds up over 2-3 years. That would be a game with a roughly 24-36 million dollar budget excluding marketing.
200-300 guys at an average of 60k across all positions adds up over 2-3 years. That would be a game with a roughly 24-36 million dollar budget excluding marketing.
Stealth_Cobra
Member
That's a pretty insane conclusion.
I love how it is immediately assumed because the wife of said game developper has a 70000 dollars car, it means game developpers are overpayed.
Apparently too , in the bizarro world of this article, woman are not allowed to work and make their own money, they must steal their husband's money to buy expensive sports cars, then crash them with no remorse. It is impossible said woman could acutally have earned said money by, I dunno, working, being a successful buisnesswoman, because apparently, in bizarro world, women never left the kitchen to become men's equal.
Sure, some game devs get ok, even good salaries, but you know what, that's the way it should be in any buisness that rewards creativity and success. Game developpers have to work hard, their projects are not always successful, and most of the money goes to the publisher and stock holders anyways, it's not like the brain behAind the game does not deserve to be half decently paid for his brainchild. And if a couple of sucessfull married people decide to buy a sports car, who are we to judge. Heck, they could be living in a dump, spending all their money to fuel their car infatuation like some people I know. Who are we to judge how one's chooses to spend his hard earned money . What gives us the right to scrutinise someone's else buying habits, judge them as overpaid and condemn them as the cause of all of the game industry troubles...
I love how it is immediately assumed because the wife of said game developper has a 70000 dollars car, it means game developpers are overpayed.
Apparently too , in the bizarro world of this article, woman are not allowed to work and make their own money, they must steal their husband's money to buy expensive sports cars, then crash them with no remorse. It is impossible said woman could acutally have earned said money by, I dunno, working, being a successful buisnesswoman, because apparently, in bizarro world, women never left the kitchen to become men's equal.
Sure, some game devs get ok, even good salaries, but you know what, that's the way it should be in any buisness that rewards creativity and success. Game developpers have to work hard, their projects are not always successful, and most of the money goes to the publisher and stock holders anyways, it's not like the brain behAind the game does not deserve to be half decently paid for his brainchild. And if a couple of sucessfull married people decide to buy a sports car, who are we to judge. Heck, they could be living in a dump, spending all their money to fuel their car infatuation like some people I know. Who are we to judge how one's chooses to spend his hard earned money . What gives us the right to scrutinise someone's else buying habits, judge them as overpaid and condemn them as the cause of all of the game industry troubles...
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
As I recall, low wages in Poland is the reason that The Witcher 2 cost so little to make ($8 million) compared to other high profile games. Marketing budgets are ludicrously inflated on some blockbuster games, but it's not like you can just risk not doing any marketing.
Lets not ignore the fact that that he uses a single source -- a small sample size salary survey -- to advance his insipid argument. He has no data on production costs, overhead, engine and tool licensing, insurance, marketing -- nothing at all.
For a software developer with any decent amount of experience, that pay is a bit on the low side, especially for a job in one of the big (read: more expensive) markets.
On top of that, game developers are underpaid relative to other software engineers, and work obscene hours for what they do make. The author of this article is a clueless moron.
Plus, even a $100k a year salary isn't anywhere near enough to afford a $70k sports car. Most software developers (myself included) have other obligations - rent/mortgages, families, and so on, and so we drive much more modest cars.
AppleSmack
Banned
Thank goodness for "quote" so we don't have to give him those hits.
Its a polish thing in general. Even a Doctor in Poland only makes upwards of 1500 USD a month.
Poohblaster
Member
I followed the money out of the game industry to a more stable software development job. If anything the game industry doesn't pay it's developers enough money.
The Faceless Master
Member
but don't game devs get paid less and work more than other programmers?
jimforspeed
Neo Member
Maybe the worst article I've ever read. I read it till the end, hoping there would be a last paragraph saying jk or something like that.
I won't even analyze it, it's terrible. And I am pretty sure the author will go to the movies tomorrow, paying 7-8$ for a movie, and thus make shitty actors millionaires just because [ .. ]. Or buy some cigars, making tobacco sellers millionaires too. And the problem is highly skilled-technical creative individuals, with 80k not being so much in the first place.
!meritocracy
I won't even analyze it, it's terrible. And I am pretty sure the author will go to the movies tomorrow, paying 7-8$ for a movie, and thus make shitty actors millionaires just because [ .. ]. Or buy some cigars, making tobacco sellers millionaires too. And the problem is highly skilled-technical creative individuals, with 80k not being so much in the first place.
!meritocracy
prag16
Banned
Came in here to say pretty much this. It's not obscene at all.
Vermillion
Banned
Isn't the average salary half that?
Not to discredit the extremely hard work that game developers put into their games but you don't know what the hell you are talking about. It is extremely ignorant to try to make any blanket statement like that.
digita1alchemy
Member
Personally, since moving out of game development and into more general software development I work less and make more.
TheLaughingStock
Member
I've never heard of a game generate > 2 billion in revenue annually. I don't think CoD manages that even if you include DLC, but maybe it is possible. Extremely rare case if it has ever happened.
Neuromancer
Member
Goddamn lazy game devs driving their $100000 rap cars around my neighborhood with their whistle tips.
he isn't 100% wrong.
One of the largest expenses in a project like videogame is labor, and one of the biggest constants in the industry so far is how high labor has grown. growing labor costs of high skilled personnel, concentrated in first world countries with expensive living standards, and well surprise. Shit gets expensive
It's ironic that so many people on GAF criticize the game industry for having high budgets and growing expenses, but namedrop games like the Witcher as being a model for the future.
One of the largest expenses in a project like videogame is labor, and one of the biggest constants in the industry so far is how high labor has grown. growing labor costs of high skilled personnel, concentrated in first world countries with expensive living standards, and well surprise. Shit gets expensive
It's ironic that so many people on GAF criticize the game industry for having high budgets and growing expenses, but namedrop games like the Witcher as being a model for the future.
piratepwnsninja
Member
Yeah, this is pretty much one of the most ill-informed, poorly written articles ever. He's resorted to saying he was just quoting figures in the comments.
I crunched on The Shield:The Game. Read that again. Yes. And I was working as a new designer getting paid what amounted to minimum wage for Irvine, California. I'm in a much better position now, but this guy...well he way off base. I'm being nice.
I crunched on The Shield:The Game. Read that again. Yes. And I was working as a new designer getting paid what amounted to minimum wage for Irvine, California. I'm in a much better position now, but this guy...well he way off base. I'm being nice.
"Hey Mr. Programmer, hey Mrs. Animator, hey Mr. Concept Painter. We know you're putting in insane amounts of hours to meet the deadlines and demands we've made for you. We also are aware that you've greatly sacrificed the time you could be spending with your significant others, children, and friends, all so you could be here and help meet your team's quotas for this week. So much so that many of you don't even go home some nights of the week, and work weekends.
Despite all this, we are also well aware that you can be fired at any time, and are consistently threatened with such action from us on a near-constant basis. Well, we've been talking, and we're thinking you have it too well off. We're kinda tired of paying for DLC, so we think you all should get a pay cut. Thanks! Please understand."
Yeah, this guy at the Examiner can fuck right off. Someone get Michael Shannon to cunt-punt this guy.
Despite all this, we are also well aware that you can be fired at any time, and are consistently threatened with such action from us on a near-constant basis. Well, we've been talking, and we're thinking you have it too well off. We're kinda tired of paying for DLC, so we think you all should get a pay cut. Thanks! Please understand."
Yeah, this guy at the Examiner can fuck right off. Someone get Michael Shannon to cunt-punt this guy.
ScottSullivan
Member
I really don't like the train of thought that no one deserves expensive products. No matter how successful their products are. If a game producer negotiates a great contract, helps to market the game well, and helps his team create a fun game that sells awesome, Fuck yes, don't get mad at him if he buys a sports car for his wife with his royalties.
Most people just don't think when they see 8-10 million for Witcher 3 and go wow that's cheap they fail to account for the fact that's based on polish budgets which are then based on polish wages.
That doesn't suddenly mean Poland is doing a better job than US studios. It just means Poland has a far cheaper cost of living.
rohlfinator
Member
Labor is a major expense =/= developers are overpaid.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Hmm, this article is ignorant and kind of offensive in a way
Which is this guy's point. Well not really the guy is an idiot but overall the theme is the same. The Witcher has a cheaper production because of cheaper costs.
If the witcher was made in america, they would move to San Francisco or Los Angeles, which have obscene living costs(or maybe they would be smart and move outside of the big cities to a irvine or San Rafeal. Still expensive places to live) Pay these guys very high wages due to their location and run a multi-year project. Most of that money will be spent on employee wages.
Despite all the people attacking this guy, the industry is reflecting what the article is saying as true. How many stories have we seen about studios chasing tax credits to different states or even out of the country? How many games are put into productiona nd then immediately cancelled, with the studio or publisher eating the costs? We've seen many studios move out to cheaper parts of the country just to keep costs down.
I mean, hell what do people think these "bloated, heavy budgets" publishers approve of and consumers criticize are spent on if not the workers?