ElRenoRaven
Member
Zenith said:
Yup. The last Rare games I really loved were Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Conker, Kameo. Since then it's been all down hill. I just wish Microsoft would finish it and put Rare out of it's misery. We can all see it coming.
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[The Rare Canceled Game Art Thread]
- Thread starter Shiggy
- Start date
Yup. The last Rare games I really loved were Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Conker, Kameo. Since then it's been all down hill. I just wish Microsoft would finish it and put Rare out of it's misery. We can all see it coming.
Azure Phoenix
Member
It's a shame that Microsoft don't have the decency to sell off all of Rare's old IPs to companies that give a damn. Kameo, Battletoads, Viva Pinata and Banjo shouldn't have to go down with the sinking ship.
Skiptastic
Member
I held out on getting down on Rare because Seavor was still there and there was always a chance of another awesome Conker game.
If he's gone/not allowed to direct games anymore, fuck this shit.
If he's gone/not allowed to direct games anymore, fuck this shit.
jump_button
Banned
they more of less die years ago, its really sad to see and MS have no idea how to best use them aka let them do what they want
Imperial Hot
Banned
I'll never understand why Microsoft bought Rare. They didn't leverage any of their strengths.
Uh, no, Halo is not a Doom clone.REMEMBER CITADEL said:
Success =/= quality. Especially for a genre as mediocre as wii sports type games.
You know what they could have done? Change the name of the company. They're not deserving of a name that other more talented creators made famous more than a decade ago. Rename it Microsoft Games Studios Leicestershire or something similar reflecting the blandness of the products they're making.
But why am I even bothering? I doubt you really wanted to debate anyway.
It's sad what happened to Rare.
The most infuriating thing, it's almost entirely Microsoft's fault. MS seemed to have absolutely no idea how to manage the studio, changing course of direction so many times. Just reading about the massive number of scrapped projects (Perfect Dark and Kameo sequel etc) is mind-boggling.
The most infuriating thing, it's almost entirely Microsoft's fault. MS seemed to have absolutely no idea how to manage the studio, changing course of direction so many times. Just reading about the massive number of scrapped projects (Perfect Dark and Kameo sequel etc) is mind-boggling.
well at least rare has a megahit called kinect sports unlike in their nintendo days were they did not have real hit games at all (outside of DKC and Goldeneye maybe). they will be just fine as i hear kinect is currently hotter then anything on the market.
well i never understood why nintendo sold em.Imperial Hot said:
Azure Phoenix said:
Preach.
I've wanted to see a new Battletoads for years, and in light of the likes of Scott Pilgrim offering a bit of rejuvenation for side-scrolling brawlers, it'd be nice to see what a dev could offer.
But no, M$ will just do more to sit on these properties that will likely never see the light of day again.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
What I'm saying here is that measuring the success of a product that is framed as "the technical showcase" of a new piece of hardware isn't something you can repeat over and over again without new tech accompanying it. Kinect Sports was a sure thing from the second the idea was pitched, the actual design decisions counted for very little insofar as its success is concerned. A competent, playable sports game on new motion control will always be a sure thing.REMEMBER CITADEL said:
It might be worth looking at Nintendo here and pondering the success of the new-gadget-included-within games like Wii Sport (the remote itself), Play (an extra remote), Resort (M+) and Fit (Balance-board) versus the relatively less successful gadget-less Wii Music and Party entries. I don't have any hard numbers here to back this up, so I could be proven completely wrong. I suspect Party may have been more successful than I remember it being.
I guess I'm not really saying a lot here. I'm tired, in my defense, so forgive some glaring elephant I'm missing. My point can basically be summarised as "Rare's success here is because of special circumstances, it doesn't really indicate that they did anything particularly remarkable on their side as far as Kinect Sports is concerned, and future success based on building games in a similar mold isn't a sure thing".
EDIT: for some reason I typed the word 'here' a lot
goldenpp72
Member
So much hate in this thread, say what you want about the banjo reboot but kinect sports and viva pinata are both AAA, amazing achievements that trump most (but not all) of their n64 era stuff today.
Pardon me if this is all sarcasm or something, but rare had plenty of 'megahits' back in the day, most all of their titles exceeded 1 million sold. I think rares highest selling games after DKC were DK64, banjo, diddy kong racing, goldeneye, and PD, each of which sold anywhere from 2 million to like, 8 million, lol. Also nintendo didn't own rare, they owned I think 49 percent while the stamper brothers owned 51. They sold their 51 to microsoft and nintendo made some arrangement while selling their part to keep the rights to say, kremlings and so forth, and allow MS access to rares original ip.
farnham said:
Pardon me if this is all sarcasm or something, but rare had plenty of 'megahits' back in the day, most all of their titles exceeded 1 million sold. I think rares highest selling games after DKC were DK64, banjo, diddy kong racing, goldeneye, and PD, each of which sold anywhere from 2 million to like, 8 million, lol. Also nintendo didn't own rare, they owned I think 49 percent while the stamper brothers owned 51. They sold their 51 to microsoft and nintendo made some arrangement while selling their part to keep the rights to say, kremlings and so forth, and allow MS access to rares original ip.
The Super Bob
Member
Was fun while it lasted Rare.
from what i gather kinect sports sold a shit ton and moved a shit ton of kinects and guess what its going to be a evergreen title as well. as DKC sold bout 8 million (and the later DKC titles less then that) and Goldeneye about the same.. yeahShiggy said:
i thought they owned enough to control them (over 50 %)apana said:
StevieP said:
from what it looks like kinect sports will easily become a forerunner title of the most successful platform of 2011 it will easily crack 10 million before 2011 ends
goldenpp72
Member
farnham said:
Kinect sports isn't doing NEAR as well as you think, if it ends up outselling banjo kazooie 1 on n64, which did like 3-4 million i think, that would be a huge deal. It's not near that figure yet however, hell kinect itself isn't even at 10 million yet lol
goldenpp72
Member
Kinect managed to sell some 7 million up to now I think, during its launch, during christmas, and during its huge media explosion. The device is a big success and will *probably* hit sales of maybe 20 million life at best, which is amazing for such an expensive add on (or any add on really)
That said, for KS to hit 10 million would require not only kinect to hit that 20 million figure, but to also have an attach rate of sold to every other kinect owner, something not even halo did back on the xbox.
Plus you have to consider they are probably working on KS2, which would cut the legs of 1 right off, KS will likely never exceed 4 million sold, which is still huge considering that would be more units sold then probably all their xbox titles combined, but all the same, you're making it out to be a halo seller (which even halo reach hasn't crossed 10 million)
That said, for KS to hit 10 million would require not only kinect to hit that 20 million figure, but to also have an attach rate of sold to every other kinect owner, something not even halo did back on the xbox.
Plus you have to consider they are probably working on KS2, which would cut the legs of 1 right off, KS will likely never exceed 4 million sold, which is still huge considering that would be more units sold then probably all their xbox titles combined, but all the same, you're making it out to be a halo seller (which even halo reach hasn't crossed 10 million)
Sho_Nuff82
Member
goldenpp72 said:
Kinect Sports sold over 1 million in the US alone in November in December, and it hasn't exactly been a slouch in the PAL charts (not just UK either).
Unless Kinect sales completely fall off a cliff, I'm guessing it passes B&K and Goldeneye before the end of the generation.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Rez said:
It was certainly not a sure thing if GAF was to be asked, and making your sports game competent and playable is the trick. There were others, too, but they didn't fare half as well.
Apples and oranges, Kinect Sports was not bundled with hardware, it was "commonly bundled", as you put it. And why were games like Kinect Sports, Dance Central commonly bundled while others weren't? Kinectimals did well, but it didn't sell as much as Sports (and remember that Nintendogs was also a huge hit), even though many people agree that it's the best technical showcase of everything Kinect has to offer.
We don't know to which extent the special circumstances helped and some would argue that making a good sports game was rather remarkable, just like the success of Avatars wasn't solely due to it being a concept similar to Miis. And of course it's not a sure thing, but it's not a sure thing that it's "not sustainable" either.
goldenpp72
Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
Kinect sports can't possibly be over 3 million units sold as of right now, goldeneye sold 8 million plus units, you really think it can even come close to GE? GE was halo before halo was halo, seems a lot of people don't know that game sold fuck loads, more than I think 2 of the DKC series.
I'm not even trying to belittle KS sales, I fuckin love that game and think it's doing great, however, it's not halo and it's not goldeneye in sales, it will probably never chart in the US again and will do moderately well for the duration of the 360s life, which lets face it, probably is not much longer than 2 or 3 more years and will probably see the release of a KS2.
KS is doing great though, it's on track to becoming possibly MS third best selling series I think, above fable but below gears and halo, given the nature of the title that's quite an accomplishment for both Rare and M$ (did you see what I did there? I added a dollar sign because they make money)
RawkHawk2010
Member
I thought Rare had more potential than ever when they were working on the Viva Pinatas and Nuts & Bolts. The games were polarizing, yes, but they were some of the most ambitious efforts not only to come from Rare but from any developer this generation.
But now...god damn. I guess my favorite developer really is dead.
But now...god damn. I guess my favorite developer really is dead.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Fair points, Citadel. It's worth adding, though, that even though the game wasn't bundled uniformly, it was still subject to the "I have a new piece of tech and want something that can showcase it" effect that comes with a launch of this kind. Given the pre-existing public familiarity of what a sport game in the motion-control space can be (versus a pet game or even a dance game), this certainly gave it a bit of an edge further games won't receive.
But again, reasonable points.
But again, reasonable points.
Pyrokai said:This is so, so, so sad. I just wanted one proper/traditional Banjo-Kazooie game before their demise. That's all I wanted. I'm so sad to read this
If anything, it would be a Banjo platformer with Kinect integration. I don't see MS passing up on getting some Kinect stuff in there somehow. I still want a Viva Pinata Kinect game.
goldenpp72
Member
Rez said:
You seem to not understand that this effect happens with a lot of series, halo on xbox was 'sorta bundled' and people wanted it to 'play a new game on their new toy' and we all know how people hated that game. KS was considered a show piece title, it's also one of the best designed titles rare has ever done, filled with content, depth and charm all around, and the fact it was done so well on a brand new device is even more impressive. People who own KS on their kinects will not do so regretfully, they will probably be pretty interested in a sequel if it happened, because it's very good.
KS isn't some trash game that got some sales because people were desperate for games, there is a reason that the only good to great selling kinect games include DC and KS, their both spectacular games people will love if given the chance, and i'm sure sequels to both would do great. Just like halo
-PXG- said:...
......I couldn't find that gif of the dude holding his chin and looking confused. So Mcnabb will do.
I'm a huge fan of rare, their n64 era hasn't aged near as gracefully as some seem to think, unlike some of nintendos classics during that era, only a few of rares titles really hold up well today. Looking through their n64 titles, you have banjo 1 which is still an amazing classic, diddy kong racing which is still great, tooie is pretty average, goldeneye and PD are primitive, horrible framerate, boring level design messes (and note, my name on this forum is inspired from goldeneye, I loved the game, it's not very good today). You also have jet force gemini and conker which hold up pretty well, but conker in particular is kind of a messy game by todays standards.
Really, stuff like dk64 and tooie were clusterfucks in game design, rares 2 legendary FPS of the era have not stood the test of time very well, they have some legacy left in titles like jet force, banjo, diddy kong racing, KI and DKC, but a lot of what people hold dear from them TODAY would actually not be very fun to play today by most people I think.
Viva pinata and KS are among the same quality as something like banjo kazooie, they may not be as good, but they have the same general quality of design, a concise vision, beautiful, stream lined enough gameplay, people give rares n64 titles too much slack while shitting on many of their excellent 360 titles.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Sorry, I overlooked this.
Sure, it's not a clone, but you get the point. I should have used Blood or Duke instead, as they released within the same "generation", but they weren't clones either, and neither is Kinect Sports. It's a game in the same genre heavily inspired by the game that popularized it, but bringing many of its own qualities.
That may be your personal opinion, but quality Wii Sports type games review well and are loved by many people, including many a Gaffer.
Although I find your remark about them not deserving the name a bit funny and immature, I have nothing against Microsoft renaiming the company. In fact, maybe they should do it. Sony did it when they buried Psygnosis and they seem to have avoided the drama.
Jay-B said:
Sure, it's not a clone, but you get the point. I should have used Blood or Duke instead, as they released within the same "generation", but they weren't clones either, and neither is Kinect Sports. It's a game in the same genre heavily inspired by the game that popularized it, but bringing many of its own qualities.
That may be your personal opinion, but quality Wii Sports type games review well and are loved by many people, including many a Gaffer.
Although I find your remark about them not deserving the name a bit funny and immature, I have nothing against Microsoft renaiming the company. In fact, maybe they should do it. Sony did it when they buried Psygnosis and they seem to have avoided the drama.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Kinect - YOU are the graphics
mysteriousmage09
Member
god damn ms, quit killing big name devs.......
goldenpp72 said:You seem to not understand that this effect happens with a lot of series, halo on xbox was 'sorta bundled' and people wanted it to 'play a new game on their new toy' and we all know how people hated that game. KS was considered a show piece title, it's also one of the best designed titles rare has ever done, filled with content, depth and charm all around, and the fact it was done so well on a brand new device is even more impressive. People who own KS on their kinects will not do so regretfully, they will probably be pretty interested in a sequel if it happened, because it's very good.
KS isn't some trash game that got some sales because people were desperate for games, there is a reason that the only good to great selling kinect games include DC and KS, their both spectacular games people will love if given the chance, and i'm sure sequels to both would do great. Just like halo
I'm a huge fan of rare, their n64 era hasn't aged near as gracefully as some seem to think, unlike some of nintendos classics during that era, only a few of rares titles really hold up well today. Looking through their n64 titles, you have banjo 1 which is still an amazing classic, diddy kong racing which is still great, tooie is pretty average, goldeneye and PD are primitive, horrible framerate, boring level design messes (and note, my name on this forum is inspired from goldeneye, I loved the game, it's not very good today). You also have jet force gemini and conker which hold up pretty well, but conker in particular is kind of a messy game by todays standards.
Really, stuff like dk64 and tooie were clusterfucks in game design, rares 2 legendary FPS of the era have not stood the test of time very well, they have some legacy left in titles like jet force, banjo, diddy kong racing, KI and DKC, but a lot of what people hold dear from them TODAY would actually not be very fun to play today by most people I think.
Viva pinata and KS are among the same quality as something like banjo kazooie, they may not be as good, but they have the same general quality of design, a concise vision, beautiful, stream lined enough gameplay, people give rares n64 titles too much slack while shitting on many of their excellent 360 titles.
Kameo and Viva were solid games. I really wish they didn't scrap Kameo 2. Everything else this gen from them is a complete waste. I've played their N64 titles again, as of late, and feel they still hold up. To each his own...
goldenpp72
Member
PDZ is a better game then PD, if you can play both today this very moment and say otherwise you have a nostalgia problem, PD has such disjointed and lost level designs and the multiplayer is unbalanced as fuck. Does that mean PDZ is great? No, it just means PD isn't as great as some imply.
Kameo is good, a bit too short, but i'd rather have a game that is too short than to play through tooies bullshit of 'go back to get X character so X character can stand on a button while adding 20 minutes to the game' fluff bullshit. Something rare suffered from that generation was losing control of flow, they said more is good, more more more, so we got stuff like DK64 which required beating levels 5 times using different characters, or tooie which was a less offensive but still similar style. Even jet force gemini suffered from what many consider a big killer, required collectables.
On 360 however, rare has pdz which is good (and better TODAY then their previous shooters, not for their time though), kameo which holds up well enough, the 2 viva pinatas, banjo and KS. Banjo i can see why people don't like, it isn't as well polished or thought out and also kind of shits on a classic series, still good enough of a game. Then you have kinect sports, which something tells me if you hate it, you haven't played it. I can't see how any reasonable person could outright hate KS, it simply seems impossible.
Kameo is good, a bit too short, but i'd rather have a game that is too short than to play through tooies bullshit of 'go back to get X character so X character can stand on a button while adding 20 minutes to the game' fluff bullshit. Something rare suffered from that generation was losing control of flow, they said more is good, more more more, so we got stuff like DK64 which required beating levels 5 times using different characters, or tooie which was a less offensive but still similar style. Even jet force gemini suffered from what many consider a big killer, required collectables.
On 360 however, rare has pdz which is good (and better TODAY then their previous shooters, not for their time though), kameo which holds up well enough, the 2 viva pinatas, banjo and KS. Banjo i can see why people don't like, it isn't as well polished or thought out and also kind of shits on a classic series, still good enough of a game. Then you have kinect sports, which something tells me if you hate it, you haven't played it. I can't see how any reasonable person could outright hate KS, it simply seems impossible.
Rez said:
While I have always hated their art, I didn't intend the comment to be read so harshly and intended more of a comical/exaggerative tone, after a few people had already started the "bad art" talk.
So here is my more nuanced opinion on the matter.
Ultimately the bad art and the layoffs are not the fault of the lower-level people making the actual assets, but the people managing and directing them. I'm also guessing those are the people that get to stay, so... yeah.
I do feel badly for the line artists - while I never liked anything they made, they were clearly technically proficient.
goldenpp72
Member
Wazzim said:
He forgot the M$