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[HitokiriNate85]

I did a couple searches and didn't see anything this specific. If this is covered well in another thread or article, please point me to it.

I'm not really a big fan of RPGs so I do gloss over some discussion and news, ie. maybe there are obvious reasons I'm just unaware of.

So, what has actually happened that took Square from their golden-age throne to what they've become? It's common for people to say RPGs just don't have the same mainstream popularity, and that's probably true to some degree, but it's not really related to the quality of their output.

- Have they lost any major players since the PSX/PS2 era? Was there serious internal restructuring that caused problems?

- Why isn't there a KH3 on consoles? Are the handheld iterations really that profitable? While it's easy to believe it hasn't happened now, when there wasn't a KH3 within a few years of KH2 I was astounded.

- Why have their console games taken so long this gen?

- It seems like they really wanted to cater to western audiences this generation, at least more than ever before. Is lack of identity a problem?

- They seem to profit well with handheld games, but FF Type-0 and Bravely Default are in limbo at best. Why? Bravely Default, from the very, very little I know about it(I've seen screens) seems to harken back to a more classic Square feel that they've drifted away from in recent years. Is that something they just aren't interested in spotlighting?

- Serious question, but why haven't they remade FFVII? Hey, I'd rather they make new stuff, but they're clearly cool with remakes for profit. Is it because, in popular opinion, it can essentially be viewed as a perfect game?

To some extent they really just seem like a company out of touch and out of steam, but they're one of the biggest players in gaming. I'm just interested in a better understanding of what has happened between then and now, etc.

 

[Jarmel]

Bad management, simple as that.

Most of the staff from Squaresoft has moved on, long development times with not much to show for it, and ill-advised projects that shouldn't have been started in the first place are just some of the stuff that SE has committed this past gen.

 

[amaron11]

They won't re-make FF7 until they 'make something better'. Someone from S-E basically said that exact statement.

What happened this gen? I always was of the mind that they are so hyper focused on presentation these days that their development times have bloated. But that's JMO.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Uhh all these questions get answered on a weekly basis.

The only one I'm going to answer is VII, new games have a chance to match or surpase VII, plus giant development costs to remake and update VII. As well as Type - 0 is in Limbo because of it's platform.

 

[H_Prestige]

Shitty management + 90's generation growing out of anime

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

I am really no sure how they could make as many mistakes as they have this generation.

So...I'll go with what seems the most likely.

They are allergic to success.

 

[Soulflarz]

I hold adam kovics argument

Ff7HD is done
Its in a vault with a glass case with a "do not break until we're broke"

 

[Bumpers]

Horrible management, early Microsoft exclusivity deals, Enix merger. They also seem to be very concerned at taking a risk on their large financial gaining franchises, which might explain the lack of a FFVII remake or a KH3.

I am happy for one thing though, and that's their investment into Eidos. Deus EX, Sleeping Dogs, and possibly Tomb Raider should be a lot of fun that I don't think would have got as much recognition without their funding.

 

[CambriaRising]

They started making bad games in force.

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

Management surely played a role, but Sakaguchi and Uematsu leaving had to have left an enormous crater in their wake.

 

[entremet]

Unability to ship key titles in key platforms. KH for example being split in various platforms. Not great for building a fan base. VS vapor ware status. FFXIV's problems and delays.

 

[Jarmel]

Management surely played a role, but Sakaguchi and Uematsu leaving had to have left an enormous crater in their wake.

Part of management is keeping the talent you have.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Wada.

 

[legacyzero]

Pretty much the entirety of their success this gen has been from Eidos IMO.

It's a shame the only entry into the Final Fantasy library was anything FFXIII related.

Square-Enix has not put out anything that has grabbed my attention this gen after they screwed up FFXIII so bad.

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

I would say talent and direction got lost... all they have given this gen is excuses. Look at what level 5 did with Ni No Kune... fully mapped world, gorgeous towns, graphics that seem right out of a cartoon... Square Enix just does not have it anymore...

 

[moe6142]

their games are crap.

final fantasy has turned to shit and the kingdom hearts series was always a joke. The only thing good they have going for them is eidos.

 

[amaron11]

Wasn't a lot of FFXII's content cut/altered by management at one point?

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

Management...

President wanted to focus more on milking final fantasy

Veteran developers wanted to make something new


They part ways

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Shitty management + 90's generation growing out of anime

This comes up in every "shit on Square" thread. Anime had nothing to do with it.

 

[funkystudent]

Bad management.


God knows how many projects were effected in order to rebuild Final Fantasy XIV.

Didnt they basically just scoop up as many people as they could from there Japanese teams and put them to work on it?

 

[Erethian]

- Have they lost any major players since the PSX/PS2 era? Was there serious internal restructuring that caused problems?

Quite a few, not that it's the sole cause of their problems.

Also I've seen people say that despite his faults, Sakaguchi was good at bringing new talent through the company, and they don't really have anyone like that anymore.

To address the rest of your post, it seems like they didn't do a very good job (understatement) at improving and streamlining their development process. By contrast look at Capcom and their creation of the MT Framework engine very early in the generation. PC based development, scaleable, and very easy to port between multiple platforms. Whatever you think of their games, that's one part of this generation they got right better than almost any other Japanese developer.

There's the whole Luminous engine business but that seems too little, too late.

 

[JordanLMiller]

They're focusing on all the wrong things.

 

[Hieberrr]

Still waiting for Versus.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I'm just glad they seem to be good patrons of Eidos. The company's output has really come a long way since the acquisition.

 

[Perkel]

Bad management.

Lately anything what is interesting comes from Eidos not SE.

 

[Mystic_Wanderer]

I still love Square. I loved FFXIII and XIII-2 just like I loved IV-XII.

It's unfortunate the majority of their development is focused solely on FF, as opposed to the PS1 era when they had stuff like summer of Square.

 

[Jathaine]

the kingdom hearts series was always a joke

No.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfhjvd_46Rw

 

[H_Prestige]

This comes up in every "shit on Square" thread. Anime had nothing to do with it.

It has a lot to do with it. Final Fantasy is anime in video game form.

 

[News Bot]

Still can't forgive them for The 3rd Birthday.

They've been more successful as a publisher this generation.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Bad management.


God knows how many projects were effected in order to rebuild Final Fantasy XIV.

Didnt they basically just scoop up as many people as they could from there Japanese teams and put them to work on it?

A large part of the Japanese side was taken up with a Realm Reborn.

So yeah, FF XIV took a huge amount of steam out of them on top of Toriyama failing to lead his team for XIII and needing to drag Nomura's over to help finish it on top of the White Engine problems.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

It has a lot to do with it. Final Fantasy is anime in video game form.

Anime fans weren't too crazy about FFXIII.

Besides, people "growing out of it" is a massive overstatement. They just don't buy it anymore outside of big stuff like the Eva movie remakes.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

It has a lot to do with it. Final Fantasy is anime in video game form.

There is other series that are more "anime" than Final Fantasy (Ex: Tales)

 

[sappyday]

their games are crap.

final fantasy has turned to shit and the kingdom hearts series was always a joke. The only thing good they have going for them is eidos.

I'd say only the XIII games are shit. FFXIV was also shit but I've heard it's shaping up to be pretty nicely now but I can't judge since I never played FFXIV. Kingdom Hearts is a great series whether you like it or not, it has its own dedicated fan base and that fan base haven't been disappointed yet besides the fact that KH3 hasn't come out yet, but they keep bringing out good games for it.

I feel like Square isn't crap just yet, it's just they focused way too much this gen on FFXIII that it seems their crap.

They are a mess though. Not terrible, but not as great as they used to be.

 

[zeopower6]

It's unfortunate really that the PSP is dead in the US because it's still going strong in Japan, which is kind of why the Vita is suffering. (unlike how the DS is getting like nothing and the 3DS gets new stuff like... every week)

I think FFXIV probably had a lot to do with it. They probably should have waited a few more iterations before doing another MMO-type FF but instead they did FFXII and FFXIII then jumped into an MMO again... which didn't even start off that hot.

XIII isn't that horrible, but XV needs to happen soon... after Lightning Returns, it'd have been 4+ years since XIII. Do we usually ever have to wait that long between main numbered FFs? (oh wait, it looks like XII took quuuuuuiiiiiiteee some time to come out)

 

[Yawnier]

Has Square Enix even produced any 'great' games this gen (that are not from Eidos)?

Seems like to me that management is the main problem here, I can't even believe that Yoichi Wada is still one of the bigwigs in the charge of the company after what has happened with them over the past few years.

 

[Dram]

Massive bomb

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Has Square Enix even produced any 'great' games this gen (that are not from Eidos)?

TWEWY, Theatrhythm, Birth By Sleep, Crisis Core, Bravely Default. Though some of those are not internally developed.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Has Square Enix even produced any 'great' games this gen (that are not from Eidos)?

Seems like to me that management is the main problem here, I can't even believe that Yoichi Wada is still one of the bigwigs in the charge of the company after what has happened with them over the past few years.

Yes, several.

Most of them have been based on Handhelds, but they still have excellent quality when the director and writer isn't Toriyama.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Massive bomb

This and the merger with Enix definitely marked the end of one era and the beginning of another. Can't say I've been a huge fan of a lot of Square's output from the last decade.

 

[amaron11]

I think FFXIV probably had a lot to do with it. They probably should have waited a few more iterations before doing another MMO-type FF.

Especially since FFXI was and is still profitable. They could have HD-ified it, fixed some of the niggling issues, and brought a lot of people back.

 

[MagiusNecros]

GILGAMESH beat them up. They are still recovering from the asskicking he gave them.

At least that's what I'd like to think.

You're gonna have to wait till after Lightning and XIV to see if anything good comes of Square.

Right now it's iOS, Eidos, and Enix pulling their weight.

 

[anaron]

Sakaguchi's resignation, horrible management, Wada.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Sakaguchi's resignation, horrible management, Wada.

I really think this is a dumb thing to try and say.

Wada while he has focused to heavily on FF at least stopped several remakes and has done good in other areas by allowing things like Type-0, Dissiida, and Crisis Core to be done. Also he allowed things like Last Remnant.

He needs to haul in Toriyama, but with Kitase backing him it could be a bit of a problem. The rest has been things that should be under Director and Producer control for management. Should heads have rolled for it? Maybe but Wada isn't making the games and making them shit.

Several new Ip's and brand revivals have happened because he was incharge.

 

[TDLink]

Monolith Soft and Mistwalker both drained many of the old people from the Squaresoft days. Some of the other people have also left to go to various other studios.

Apart from that talent drain there has also been poor management overall in the last decade. They just aren't able to produce content anywhere close to the same quality (apart from graphically) or in the same quantity (remember when we had at least one new game pretty much every year?). They are mostly reliant on Eidos, remakes of their classics, and the few remaining talents from the 90s/early 00s they have left (like Nomura).

 

[Lost Fragment]

Even present-day Square isn't dumb enough to do a FF7 HD remake. The amount of people who don't see how risky that would be is puzzling.

 

[LiquidSolid]

Seems like there's one of these threads every couple of days.

The simple answer is management. Wada deserves a lot of credit for some of his business decisions (like buying Eidos) but he doesn't seem to have much of a clue when it comes to game development. These managerial problems led to the development of the Crystal Tools engine, which ultimately fucked up development of pretty much all their internal HD games.

 

[Ghazi]

Extremely bad management of their company, poor business, marketing(see Hitman Facebook game for most recent one) and design decisions, being out of touch with their audience.


Handheld games Squenix is actually pretty good though, It's almost as if they're separate.

 

[rouken]

their handheld games are pretty great this gen, TWEWY, 4 heroes, dq9 to name a few. but their console output are pretty mediocore. i mean 3 ff13 games? really. it should've been ff13, versus and kh3.

at least they've got eidos.

 

[H_Prestige]

Those who say Wada misunderstand his importance.

Wada saved Square upon the almost bankruptcy after the The Spirits Within upon his appointment. That was his job. He is a business savvy and business minded CEO. That's why they called him in.

And he did his job, soundly.

A far more fair critique is that Wada has merely overstayed his needed tenure.

I think this is an urban myth.

 

[Yawnier]

TWEWY, Theatrhythm, Birth By Sleep, Crisis Core, Bravely Default. Though some of those are not internally developed.

The output of great games from SE this gen there seems a bit sad compared to how many great games Square and Enix use to pump out 1 - 2 generations past. Especially considering how long this generation has dragged on for.

Back in the fifth generation of gaming (PS1, N64, Saturn), Square and Enix between them would consistently release anywhere around 2 - 4 great RPGs in a year. Not trying to discredit those games in anyway at all, but I think it shows just how much they have fallen from grace over the past decade or so.