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[Emperor_Uriel]

I'm really curious how Japanese players reacted to Samus's characterization, and whether this is a case of values dissonance or not.

Samus seems like such an easy character to write properly: Make her cool, give her some wit, and the occasional tender moment here and there. Her reaction to Adam should have been one of respectful disobedience from the get go. Less "Yes, sir!" and more "Look, I'm not part of the federation anymore. I'll play nice because... obviously you're important to me, but don't act like I'm suddenly a soldier again."

It's depressing to think that one of the industry's go-to cool girls might have secretly been a pouty, self-serious wuss in the minds of her creators this whole time.

 

[jrush64]

I don't know, me I enjoyed the hell out of this game. I don't see the big problems with it.

 

[Stopdoor]

It's not brought up much it seems, but along with the Baby, the Baby's Cry, the Bottle Ship, the game's acronym is "MOM".

There's pretty much zero (good) reason otherwise it's called "Other M" - it's the most ham-fisted subtitle ever.

 

[Boney]

Oh, Nate Bihldorf as the tutorial dude? I kinda figured that was just an obvious homage to the intro for Super Metroid being VA'd by Dan Owsen, the then Treehouse guru.

Yep. They used it as a placeholder and figured it's good enough. And I guess it is.

 

[zashga]

We should count ourselves lucky that we got so many excellent Metroid games before Sakamoto was able to express his true vision for the series, thereby destroying it.

It's not brought up much it seems, but along with the Baby, the Baby's Cry, the Bottle Ship, the game's acronym is "MOM".

There's pretty much zero (good) reason otherwise it's called "Other M" - it's the most ham-fisted subtitle ever.

The best thing about Other M is that no one refers to it as MOM.

 

[SerTapTap]

Other M is also an anagram for Mother, they could scarcely have been more ham-fisted if they tried. I mean...I guess they were trying.

 

[Version 3.0]

That "why is Samus wearing purple" is a George Lucas level moment of WTF. Obviously Sakamoto has gone batshit insane, too.

Some other tidbits from that Iwata Asks:

I think that this is an immersive game, and one that doesn't, from the opening screen to the very end, contain a single 'isn't this a bit weird?' moment of strangeness.

Um...

Also, there were quite a lot of programmers working on this project, and everyone felt 'let's try making a better game', so the project rapidly swelled with ideas. They weren't just programming what they were told to, every one of them would also construct various things on their own in order to try and make the game more fun.

So even though they were programmers, they would think of their own ideas and actually try constructing them?

That's right.

If I were a programmer on this game, I'd have felt compelled to try and fix it, too.

Of course, there are only a few buttons that can be used on just one Wii Remote, so we had many, many button meetings about how Samus's diverse movements should be controlled.

You had button meetings?

We did.

I have to presume that most people working on this game must have known that having so few buttons was a terrible idea.

 

[Orochinagis]

Which we never learn the identity of!

The Deleter history was pretty abandoned after the truck thing boss.

 

[Toxi]

What is there to say that hasn't been said? Other M has an awful story from any perspective. The dialogue is bad, the characterization is ruinous, the pacing is atrocious, and the very concept of the story clashes with the soul of Metroid. There are no interesting or original ideas, no wasted potential, because Other M is bad to the core.

This is a story that thinks the player is so forgetful that it has a flashback to a moment five minutes ago in the same cutscene.

Hopefully this was a learning experience for Nintendo.

 

[Ninjimbo]

I'm really curious how Japanese players reacted to Samus's characterization, and whether this is a case of values dissonance or not.

Samus seems like such an easy character to write properly: Make her cool, give her some wit, and the occasional tender moment here and there. Her reaction to Adam should have been one of respectful disobedience from the get go. Less "Yes, sir!" and more "Look, I'm not part of the federation anymore. I'll play nice because... obviously you're important to me, but don't act like I'm suddenly a soldier again."

It's depressing to think that one of the industry's go-to cool girls might have secretly been a pouty, self-serious wuss in the minds of her creators this whole time.

I prefer Other M'a characterization of Samus rather than this stereotypical tripe you seem to be proposing. I've had enough of that generic, nothing bothers me action hero/heroine in video games.

 

[Ezalc]

Only good thing that came out of this might be samus's mole. Maybe.

I prefer Other M'a characterization of Samus rather than this stereotypical tripe you seem to be proposing. I've had enough of that generic, nothing bothers me action hero/heroine in video games.

What in the holy hell.

 

[Krujo]

I always hear about how much everyone loved Metorid Prime but I don't hear as much talk about the other two in the series. Where they as good as the first one? I've been wanting to play a Metorid game again I was thinking about maybe going back playing the rest of the Prime series.

 

[HK-47]

I prefer Other M'a characterization of Samus rather than this stereotypical tripe you seem to be proposing. I've had enough of that generic, nothing bothers me action hero/heroine in video games.

You traded one cliche that actually makes sense for another that doesnt make sense at all.

 

[Ahnez]

The game has a lot of problems, but the story is really one of the worst of them.

But also, the reception was even worse due to things like the extreme linearity and the control scheme (Moving in 3D without the Nunchuck? wat?)

I hope Nintendo understands why the game is so hated by the fans, the Metroid IP is one of the best they have. It's sad to see it being damaged so much because of one bad game

It's not brought up much it seems, but along with the Baby, the Baby's Cry, the Bottle Ship, the game's acronym is "MOM".

There's pretty much zero (good) reason otherwise it's called "Other M" - it's the most ham-fisted subtitle ever.

Also, if you change the 'M' in "Other M", you can spell "mother" lol

 

[Leynos]

Wait, that cute little ball of fluff running around is baby Ridley? I didn't get far into the game before I put it down, but this is news to me. Maybe I should go back to see what else they fucked up.

 

[Ridley327]

I always hear about how much everyone loved Metorid Prime but I don't hear as much talk about the other two in the series. Where they as good as the first one? I've been wanting to play a Metorid game again I was thinking about maybe going back playing the rest of the Prime series.

They're far from being bad or even unremarkable games, but the first game continues to cast such a massive shadow that even in the case of sequels being great, it's just not the same level as great. Because they are great games!

 

[Ninjimbo]

You traded one cliche that actually makes sense for another that doesnt make sense at all.

It makes sense to me. It's that Nathan Drake archetype that's starting to grate on me. Kind of like Robert Downey Jr.'s Iron Man. That's what the description reminded me of and I don't want to see Samus like that either.

 

[Ezalc]

It makes sense to me. It's that Nathan Drake archetype that's starting to grate on me. Kind of like Robert Downey Jr.'s Iron Man. That's what the description reminded me of and I don't want to see Samus like that either.

I don't like either of those characters but I'd much prefer seeing Samus like that than being that submissive non-person she was in Other M.

Also, I feel like you have something confused. Both Stark and Drake are pretty confident and sarcastic, to the point of arrogance at times. Samus can be witty but it doesn't have to come across as brash or condescending. Samus had no reason to follow Adam's orders in Other M other out of their personal history, making her say something to the effect of I'll take your orders into consideration as I operate would be much better than her just following him around like a lost puppy.

 

[Lunar15]

The main problem I had with the plot is that they basically had the same setup and reveal as Fusion... which then causes Fusion to make no sense because they all should have seen it coming.

It was uncreative. The story was almost exactly like fusion in that the Federation built a space station that just so happened to be a great breeding ground for metroids to use as a weapon. In order to stop it, they have to detach the platform and blow it up. In Fusion, samus should already kind of know that the Federation isn't beyond cloning metroids, but it comes as a huge surprise to her in that game. Plus, it's such a big deal in Fusion that they use the DNA of the baby metroid to help Samus, but at this point it shouldn't be, because Samus already knows they used the DNA of the baby Metroid to do other things.

On top of that, you also have Nightmare show up for no reason, which is another retcon to Fusion.

I'm not some big lover of Metroid canon that I'm actually upset about the retcons and whatnot. That just happens sometimes when someone's trying to tell a story. But this is a case where they just wrote the same game twice. It's uncreative.

 

[hatchx]

Which we never learn the identity of!

You find out, but it's not really explained at a considering it was a major point of suspense te first half of the game.

It's like half way through writing it they got bored of the deleter story arch and kind of wiped it under the rug.

 

[Ninjimbo]

I don't like either of those characters but I'd much prefer seeing Samus like that than being that submissive non-person she was in Other M.

Also, I feel like you have something confused. Both Stark and Drake are pretty confident and sarcastic, to the point of arrogance at times. Samus can be witty but it doesn't have to come across as brash or condescending. Samus had no reason to follow Adam's orders in Other M other out of their personal history, making her say something to the effect of I'll take your orders into consideration as I operate would be much better than her just following him around like a lost puppy.

Sure. I can agree with some of that. Losing your powers is probably preferable than not activating your powers because your friend told you to. I never thought much Other M's story besides the fact that I got to see some of Samus's personality which I liked. I liked the fact that she showed some vulnerability.

I don't think she needs to say anything witty. It always comes across as condescending and I'm tired of it. If she talks like she does in Other M, that's fine with me. I'll take self-serious over witty right now.

 

[EvilMario]

That "why is Samus wearing purple" is a George Lucas level moment of WTF. Obviously Sakamoto has gone batshit insane, too..

That's what immediately comes to mind when I see Sakamoto's recent decisions. It was nice that he helped establish the franchise, but it's probably time for him to step away from it now.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I could forgive the stupid story if the gameplay was as good as in Super Metroid but I didn't really enjoyed the gameplay either. The switching perspectives sounded good on paper but I really, really didn't like them. I hope Nintendo will just give us Prime 4 for Wii U and a new 2D Metroid for the 3DS.

 

[FloweryMarston]

every time adam gives samus an order or she obeys him to the point of hurting herself (not activating the varia suit when she was surrounded by lava) having no objections at all is so strange to me. Samus always showed to be a super though person trained by an ancient bird race that made the space pirates fear her to the point of calling her "the hunter". She killed ridley so many times now that ridley would want revenge, not the other way around.

Why didn't they get the brilliant composers that shaped the metroid soundtrack? Instead we got a bland soundtrack that even the main menu suffered from it. The best track was Vs. Ridley, which isn't an original composition for the game.

i like story in games, but if i have a fun game in my hands, the story is the last thing i will complain about. But other m's story is bad in some ways that made me cringe every time a cutscene played. The VA for samus is horrible, i really think that they should've stayed with jennifer hale (who did samus "voice" in the prime series). Her voice would suit samus much better.


kind of sad to see the guy who directed super metroid directing this game. I do think that sakamoto is a very capable person, and that he can still make a great metroid game. This game tried to go too far away from the franchise staples and focus too much on a intrusive story, rather than going to previous game's route where the world around you would tell the story.

 

[Toxi]

I prefer Other M'a characterization of Samus rather than this stereotypical tripe you seem to be proposing. I've had enough of that generic, nothing bothers me action hero/heroine in video games.

There's nothing interesting about Other M's characterization of Samus. She doesn't change through the game, she doesn't develop, she doesn't overcome her flaws. The game actually highlights how little of an arc she has with how she reacts to the Sector Zero scene the exact same way she reacted to Ian's death.

A shitty character is not a good replacement for a flat one, and anyone who doesn't think Other M Samus is a shitty character has no clue how good characters work.

 

[Magnet_Man]

Oh come on! I'm eating Prime Trilogy over here!

I actually did read that entire TV Tropes dissection and there was one thing that really stood out regarding the Ridley scene. Other M itself provides absolutely no explanation or context to who he is, his relation to Samus, and whatever bullshit reason people come up with in retrospect to justify her reaction. Only people familiar with the series could possibly understand, yet being familiar with the series is what makes the scene so horribly confusing and nonsensical. And let's not forget that the entire scene and everything that happened during it gets no resolution or reference again which begs the question of why have such a garbage scene to begin with.

Character flaws exist so that we can see how the character overcomes them. You can't just introduce something as significant and complex as PTSD or whatever with no context and then instantly handwave it into oblivion two minutes later.

The Varia Suit, Ridley scene, and similar scenes are all very frustrating to experience but no scene in fiction from games or film fills me with as much revulsion and loathing as the Adam Sacrifice scene. Samus walks in, 20 minutes later a baby metroid appears, REMEMBER THE BABY METROID?? REMEMBER SAMUS AND THE BABY METROID?? I DON'T THINK YOU DO LET'S SHOW IT TO YOU AGAIN!! Samus is then shot from behind which completely destroys her Power Rangers / Kamen Rider power up (because the Power Suit in Other M sure as shit isn't made of metal) and then the metroid gets frozen and dies. We find out it was Adam that shot her! Why? Because "the metroids in Sector 0 cannot be frozen".

BUT YOU JUST FUCKING SHOT AND FROZE ONE!! THAT WASN'T EVEN 10 SECONDS AGO!!

"My guess is because it was still in its larval stage, but who can say?" YOU! YOU FUCKING CLOD! You shot her when she was about to shoot the metroid herself and left her and yourself at risk of being killed by this "invincible" metroid on a guess!? Of course that standard issue pistol knocked the everloving shit three ways to sunday out of the Power Suit, made of the greatest technology of the Chozo which exceeds anything the rest of the galaxy can imagine, so Samus spends the entire scene panting in pain from the raw wrath of the standard pistol. Also, why would you breed out the fail-safe of the metroids? You don't create an ultimate weapon and not leave some sort of insurance. The entire point of a weapon is so that you have some sort of control over it so it can attack the things / people you want it to attack!

So the only way to kill these unkillable metroids is to "activate Sector 0's self-destruct". Makes sense. "So I'm going to go in and cause as much damage as I can which will activate the self-destruct" WHAT?? Why isn't there a normal self-destruct control on this illegal research facility?? Why can't we just attack it from the outside using the Gunship or the cruiser that Adam used to get here? And why do we need to destroy Sector 0 anyway? We already saw in the frozen sector that unfreezable metroids are out and about outside Sector 0 so destroying it wouldn't solve the problem (also these perfect weapon metroids sure seem vulnerable to explosions, but what military force uses explosives or any kind?)

Adam leaves, Samus tries to follow but can't because she's a worthless woman, and Adam asks "any objections, menstruation?" to which she gives a thumbs up. But wait, I thought she responded to that with a--WAIT! Her hand is turning slightly! Wh-whatever could she be doin--is that-? IT IS! IT'S A THUMBS DOWN!! THE CIRCLE IS COMPLETE!! Oh my god, that fucking thumbs down scene at the start...I've rambled too much as is.

I can't even put into words how much I hate this scene, but what truly unsettled me was that Sakamoto when watching this scene, moved him to tears. Keep this man away from anything with a plot more complicated than Tetris.

 

[Dimmle]

"baby"

 

[K' Dash]

Apparently, the purple suit looked "silly" in cut scenes. Nintendo required the purple suit as part of the canon design documents for Samus, but ol' Sakamoto put his foot down and refused (and apparently won that battle...)

Because the bright orange suit did not?



Sigh

I must mention this man invented this suit color

lol

So ugly...

After reading that I'm posotively convinced I don't want Sakamoto near a Metroid Game EVER AGAIN.

It's like he wanted the game to bomb.

 

[jg4xchamp]

It sucks, the story sucks. Like across the board. Sakamoto fucked up.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

I prefer Other M'a characterization of Samus rather than this stereotypical tripe you seem to be proposing. I've had enough of that generic, nothing bothers me action hero/heroine in video games.

Whoa. How did you get any of that from what I wrote?

Wit doesn't automatically equal Han Solo. And Samus remaining respectful while also doing her own thing fits perfectly within her past characterization.

Adam's death should draw out a profound sense of sadness in her, but since she wasn't portrayed as strong and independent throughout the rest of the game, we're left with yet another whiny, overly-dramatic monologue.

Put simply: It's not that nothing should bother her, but that she, as a seasoned bounty hunter who has single-handedly brought entire species to their knees, should only be bothered by certain things. Everything else can be taken in stride.

 

[CTLance]

Episode M never happened, so by definition it cannot have any story. That's the way I see it, and I will fight anybody who claims otherwise.

Spoiler

I am incredibly tempted to drop a snarky comment about this game in the current "games that made you cry" thread.

 

[Verger]

Dear god, reading through this made me realize how much I really disliked this game. And well, replaying the Prime Trilogy showed just how badly this game was in comparison in all aspects.

Prime is just such a better designed game, and even Corruption, with its tailoring to more cinematics and having VA was still done so much better than what we were given in Other M.

The story is just bad, terrible, and pretty much a metaphorical assault on the character of Samus. Just as a comparison, in Metroid Prime when Samus encounters Ridley at the start of the game, she's pissed and determined to chase him down when he escapes. In Other M, she goes into full blown PTSD mode and becomes so emotional she cannot keep her suit functioning. And then you get into that whole thing with Adam and my eyes somehow didn't roll out of their sockets.

I too wonder if this "story" was something that is maybe more palatable to Japanese tastes, especially if Sakamoto himself was "Moved to tears" by the cinematics (oh gag me)

 

[Christine]

The worst part is the atrocious infodump that happens after you beat

Spoiler

Queen Metroid

. God, every part of it is such utter shit. It carries the limp and lifeless action direction that plaques every cut-scene to its laziest nadir, with minutes and minutes of two people standing facing together and talking. Two people, boringly shot, with not a grain of drama between them, one explaining backstory to the other. It's an offense to the eyes.

And the story itself? It was so bad I was literally pulling my hair. I couldn't skip it, you see, and one kind of pain was preferable to the other.

 

[direct_quote]

If you want to know how not to turn a silent protagonist into a full fleshed out character? Do everything Other M did. I still can't believe having a suit that can malfunction and come off is a thing Samus would want to have, it's the worst possible battle suit you could have. I hope in lower Norfair you don't have a PTSD flashback and burn to death..

I still can't fathom the director of Super Metroid made this. Truly a George Lucas prequels moment for video games.. In fact it's probably worse than the prequels, because Samus's character was already established before this, and after several major battles she's just some incompetent wreck of a character.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

But guys I thought NeoGAF was pro-Other M...

 

[MrBadger]

My problem with Other M is just how much it reuses from Fusion. The ship full of artificial environments and clones of past enemies, the secret metroid breeding program from the Galactic Federation, even all the Adam stuff. This is meant to be the game that teaches us about Adam, but they base it after he and Samus have already fallen out. Why not have the game set when she was still properly serving him and cut out all the Fusion re-runs?

 

[Palculator]

I still can't fathom the director of Super Metroid made this. Truly a George Lucas prequels moment for video games.. In fact it's probably worse than the prequels, because Samus's character was already established before this, and after several major battles she's just some incompetent wreck of a character.

Did Sakamoto go back to Super Metroid, insert a bunch of shit CGI effects, mess up the plot, replace character sprites with their new versions and then claim he lost the original ROM? Because if not I don't think he's worse than Lucas.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Did Sakamoto go back to Super Metroid, insert a bunch of shit CGI effects, mess up the plot, replace character sprites with their new versions and then claim he lost the original ROM? Because if not I don't think he's worse than Lucas.

Just wait for that HD Remaster a lot of people have been asking for...

 

[MrBadger]

For what it's worth, I'd rather watch Revenge of the Sith than play Other M

 

[Ezalc]

Sure. I can agree with some of that. Losing your powers is probably preferable than not activating your powers because your friend told you to. I never thought much Other M's story besides the fact that I got to see some of Samus's personality which I liked. I liked the fact that she showed some vulnerability.

I don't think she needs to say anything witty. It always comes across as condescending and I'm tired of it. If she talks like she does in Other M, that's fine with me. I'll take self-serious over witty right now.

The problem here is that in this game Samus' only personality is to be vulnerable and to rely on Adam for what she needs to do. Which goes completely against everything we have seen in other games. Samus shouldn't be emotionless, far from it, nor should she be the insecure wreck she is in Other M. She's been on many missions, in hostile worlds working alone and during the time she was in the Federation military. They need to find a balance. Samus isn't some lost little girl, she's a battle hardened bounty hunter that has managed to make an enemy out of an entire race of aliens and is consistently called the best bounty hunter in the galaxy.

 

[Htown]

Holy shit.

Wow, lol

Anyway, one of my biggest problems with the plot of this game is that all Samus does is kill monsters and flip switches. She doesn't actually do anything to solve the problems that the game presents.

She doesn't defeat MB, the marines and that scientist do.
She doesn't stop the threat from Sector Zero, Adam does.
She doesn't stop the Bottle Ship from reaching Federation space, Anthony does.
She doesn't stop the Deleter, MB does.

 

[Christine]

Samus might be written as if she's an insecure wreck, but she doesn't emote so it's the worst of both worlds.

 

[Ezalc]

Wow, lol

Anyway, one of my biggest problems with the plot of this game is that all Samus does is kill monsters and flip switches. She doesn't actually do anything to solve the problems that the game presents.

She doesn't defeat MB, the marines and that scientist do.
She doesn't stop the threat from Sector Zero, Adam does.
She doesn't stop the Bottle Ship from reaching Federation space, Anthony does.
She doesn't stop the Deleter, MB does.

Doesn't kill Ridley.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Only good thing that came out of this might be samus's mole. Maybe.

Nah, that just bugs me more because it never existed before in the numerous times we'd seen Samus unmasked, it's like they were trying to search for ways to make her more "appealing" you could say and somehow ended up with heels on the zero suit and the beauty spot as their mission accomplished moment

 

[Astral Dog]

Just wait for that HD Remaster a lot of people have been asking for...

A new HD remaster of Super Metroid with Samus monologuing about Adam before entering every level and yelling The Baby during the last battle.after some flashbacks, of course.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

It's also worth noting that, since Metroid in general takes huge inspiration from Alien (A lone woman fights against a hostile alien species that she eventually forms a unique bond with, amongst tons of other factors that Sakamoto has copped to), I doubt I was alone in always assuming that Samus's personality would greatly resemble that of Ellen Ripley.

Sakamoto has even been quoted in the past describing Samus as a "little more extravagant version" of that character. I really wonder what made him change his mind regarding that, or whether he ever really understood what kind of a character Ripley actually was.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

"IF METROIDS CAN'T DIE TO ICE THEY'RE UNSTOPPABLE" *

* Your first fight with Metroids in Metroid Prime is well before you get the Ice Beam

ughh. What a stupid scene, it was ridiculous then and it becomes even more ridiculous after you play the Prime games over again.

So the only way to kill these unkillable metroids is to "activate Sector 0's self-destruct"

Or a super missile/power bomb. That generally has been shown to work against cold immune (or Samus with no Ice Beam) Metroids before

 

[fengshuifever]

I actually said 'wait what?' Out loud when I saw the thread title, because I'm sure as shit that there wasn't actually a story.
Just sequences the team/Sakamoto wrote down on different post-it notes and created the game sequences based on those, while completely forgetting that when you write a story, you ACTUALLY need to connect the events together in a coherent manner.

This game is....insane, I can't think of a better word.
There are so many plot arcs that start that also are NEVER resolved, and so many story elements that are introduced for NO REASON.

Oh, Adam is a father figure? We're led to believe this? WHAT!?
There is multiple times in the Metroid series where it heavily insinuates that the Chozo picked her up in basically a planetary inspection and raised her up, eventually bestowing upon her the Power Suit.

There are so many things in this game that just completely feel like a "Fuck you Metroid canon. I created you, I can break you".

God just...this game makes me genuinely confused.

I feel that if there ever was a How Did This Get Made for videogames, Other M could be their Fast Five.


Edit: also, do we know how long Other M takes place after the start of Super Metroid?
Because I'm pretty sure being stuck alone on a desolate planet for a few months would be a good way to be alone enough with your thoughts to sort them out.

Double edit : ALSO, this is the SAME person who committed a planetary wide genocide and faced Ridley not once, BUT TWICE before Other M.
at worst, she shouldve been surprised.

 

[Christine]

Okay, I've been playing Echoes so here's my immediate point of comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXDdw6VCH-w

The scene starts and ends with Samus kneeling next to Capt. Exeter's body. Pay attention to the contrast in her body language before she watches the log entry and after she watches it. Emotionless? Far from it.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I love when my summer blockbusters have long, monotone, character destroying inner monologues

I never even knew these were a complaint until I read opinions here.