Support NeoGAF

[Men_in_Boxes]

"Nobody asked for this" was bad.
"They're just following trends" was worse.

Now we have a new phrase flying around that makes us all look bad. That of course is "They should just make shorter games."

This is always brought up in response to the industries shrinking profits.

As if 10 hour AAA games weren't everywhere 15+ years ago. (They died for a reason)

As if no one making games today has thought "What if we just made a shorter game?" (It's not a novel idea)

As if 10 hour games are generating a ton of revenue right now. (Nobody buys these games)

Nobody wants to spend $70 dollars on a one and done game you can beat in a weekend. Can we collectively move on from this embarrassing talking point once and for all? People clearly don't want this.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Hellblade 2 damage control?

 

[tommycronin]

It's not that I want shorter games I just want games that just end. I'd rather spent 60 beans on a 15 hour game than 40 beans on a game that's stretched out to 50-100 hours.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

God I hate you

 

[Bernardougf]

"Nobody asked for this" was bad.
"They're just following trends" was worse.

Now we have a new phrase flying around that makes us all look bad. That of course is "They should just make shorter games."

This is always brought up in response to the industries shrinking profits.

As if 10 hour AAA games weren't everywhere 15+ years ago. (They died for a reason)

As if no one making games today has thought "What if we just made a shorter game?" (It's not a novel idea)

As if 10 hour games are generating a ton of revenue right now. (Nobody buys these games)

Nobody wants to spend $70 dollars on a one and done game you can beat in a weekend. Can we collectively move on from this embarrassing talking point once and for all? People clearly don't want this.

So you think that us that are suggesting shorter and less bloated games are talking about 10 hours game ??? Okay.

How about instead of a 60 hours asscreed extravaganza you do a 16-20 hour highly elaborate experience ? Or instead of 100 hours you do 40... and so on ...

I think you missed the point mate

 

[Zheph]

It's that time of the day

MiB new thread baby

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

So you think that us that are suggesting shorter and less bloated games are talking about 10 hours game ??? Okay.

How about instead of a 60 hours asscreed extravaganza you do a 16-20 hour highly elaborate experience ? Or instead of 100 hours you do 40... and so on ...

I think you missed the point mate

Assassins Creed Valhalla (60+ hr game) was the best selling game in the franchise. How did Assassins Creed Mirage do?

 

[SmokedMeat]

When people say they want shorter games, they mean they want more focused campaigns that aren’t padded with bullshit.

Instead of bloated development budgets due to cinematic crap, or open worlds that exist to feed a crafting/rpg mechanics, make a linear game that focuses on gameplay.

 

[mdkirby]

every major studio should have a second team use the engine and assets from their big AAA epics to make 2-3 smaller AA £40 releases. They are much more cost effective, way quicker to make, and fill the void between major releases.

It’s clear from the insomniac leaks that this makes way too much financial sense not to do, and for us as fans of franchises it means we don’t need to wait the best part of a decade between instalments. I’m 40 now, how many more fallout games before I’m dead? On the current release cadence, not many. 2, maybe 3?

 

[Bernardougf]

Assassins Creed Valhalla (60+ hr game) was the best selling game in the franchise. How did Assassins Creed Mirage do?

You are still missing the point... the point is not what you or I or the world likes to play... we all will have or preferences, shorter , longer, more or less side content and so on..

The problem is MONEY... the industry is showing signs that this model of AAA gaming is not sustainable anymore, so you have two solutions - IF - this is true .... if not who cares do what you like as a developer... but assuming is true.. you will have eventually to scale down your game or charge more for it or do a lot of micro transactions. You as a gamer can choose what you prefer, play a shorter game or pay more for a longer one.... cant have both. Sorry.

 

[joeygreco1985]

Games are bloated now, both in length and in production cost. Scale back, make a tighter experience. That's all I want.

 

[Kacho]

How did Assassins Creed Mirage do?

It did extremely well.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Hellblade 2 damage control?

I read this as Helldivers 2 and wondered what was going on.

 

[Hudo]

They should just make the day longer. Slow down Earth's rotation a bit.

 

[Clear]

Its way too simplistic a talking point.

No consideration of objective issues like there's no fixed cost-per-minute when talking about games, neither does it weigh subjective value such as the worth of lightweight and/or repetitive content that can flesh games out from just the golden path of story.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

You are still missing the point... the point is not what you or I or the world likes to play... we all will have or preferences, shorter , longer, more or less side content and so on..

The problem is MONEY... the industry is showing signs that this model of AAA gaming is not sustainable anymore, so you have two solutions - IF - this is true .... if not who cares do what you like as a developer... but assuming is true.. you will have eventually to scale down your game or charge more for it or do a lot of micro transactions. You as a gamer can choose what you prefer, play a shorter game or pay more for a longer one.... cant have both. Sorry.

They did this with Assassins Creed Mirage. Look what happened.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

They should just make the day longer. Slow down Earth's rotation a bit.

This is way less infuriating to me.

 

[Slimboy Fat]

If you have fun gameplay systems you can stretch your game out a lot without paying 100+ people full salary for 6 months to make more cutscenes and setpieces.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Assassins Creed Valhalla (60+ hr game) was the best selling game in the franchise. How did Assassins Creed Mirage do?

Best selling doesn’t mean much. What’s the investment and return? It might have been shit.

 

[Games of Today]

Just look at how actual players who voice their concerns feel about God of War 2018 vs Ragnorok, Spiderman 1 vs 2. These longer games are bloated as shit and drag on.

However, these long games sell a lot so they won't change anytime soon.

 

[Bernardougf]

They did this with Assassins Creed Mirage. Look what happened.

Im sorry but this is a non argument, you are talking about two different games... with two different hystoric sets and two different gameplay choices (even if the central idea is the same)

You liked asscreed valhala and the 60+ hours it provided.. lets make it 70 .. maybe you would have enjoyed as much with 40 to 50 hours.. and this 20 hours of bloatness could be saved and the game made more money and therefore keeping the studio healthy.. is not really that hard to understand how this could be a good thing if you want to keep game prices at check.

 

[midnightAI]

There's room for all lengths of games, let the creators create what they want to create.

(also, I have a certain 30-40 hour long game in my library that I played 6 hours of and was completely bored, so length of game does not equal length of enjoyment)

 

[AV]

They did this with Assassins Creed Mirage. Look what happened.

Do you believe Mirage cost them anywhere near what Valhalla cost to develop and market?

 

[Bernardougf]

Just look at how actual players who voice their concerns feel about God of War 2018 vs Ragnorok, Spiderman 1 vs 2. These longer games are bloated as shit and drag on.

However, these long games sell a lot so they won't change anytime soon.

It dosent matter how they sell really..what matters is profitability... a lot means very little if your budget is not covered and turns to profit.. just see Days Gone that sold 8 million copys and was considered a failure..

 

[Bond007]

I prefer shorter games.
Im open to longer games- i just wont bother with the fluff content.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Nah, games do need better direction and less bloat. The narrative is correct.

 

[MrRibeye]

RDR2 was too short, I agree.

 

[Kacho]

They did this with Assassins Creed Mirage. Look what happened.

What happened? Please explain in detail.

 

[Aion002]

If a game is 10 hours long I will wait for a sale for less than 20 bucks.

But that's just me, there are many that rather spend 70 usd on 10 hours of a great game, than 100 hours of a Assassin's Creed game... People has different tastes... You shoud accept that... Don't like it? Don't buy it.

 

[Gojiira]

Less BLOAT yes…Take AC or TotK, 100’s of boring pointless collectables to pad out repetitive content. That needs to go.
If a game is 20-40 hours of meaningful content great, if its 100 hours of bloat…Hard pass

 

[BbMajor7th]

Dark Souls is 20-30 hour game - I've clocked up over 250 hours in it. I have some 100 hour+ games that I haven't even clocked up 10 hours in.

 

[Bernardougf]

Dark Souls is 20-30 hour game - I've clocked up over 250 hours in it. I have some 100 hour+ games that I haven't even clocked up 10 hours in.

I have hundreds of hours in each of the souls games ... sekiro been the most replayed one...

Bloated Elden Ring I just finished to get the Platinum and wont touch it ever again.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

Longer games take longer to make I imagine. Also, I don't want to play 50+ hour games. They very rarely have enough engaging content to justify the length and so I usually drop them less than 20 hours in since they massively outstay their welcome. The only exceptions I can think of are Elden Ring and Witcher 3 for me personally.

Nobody wants shorter games? Speak for your self, I have a full time job and kids as well as other hobbies. Shorter games are sometimes all I want and I actively check 'how long to beat' before purchasing, because I don't want to play an 80 hour RPG.

The value of a game is not necessarily tied to how long it takes to be beaten, it should be how much enjoyment someone gets from it. That could be 10 hours or 1000 hours.

Between this and your utterly fucking bonkers thread on pay to win, I think I'll make good use of the ignore button...

 

[gaming_again]

Super short games that can be replayed endlessly is The Way.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Just look at how actual players who voice their concerns feel about God of War 2018 vs Ragnorok, Spiderman 1 vs 2. These longer games are bloated as shit and drag on.

However, these long games sell a lot so they won't change anytime soon.

Exactly.

The expression "Watch what they do, not what they say" comes to mind.

 

[Hrk69]

Great fucking take

 

[Last Hearth]

Yes, the cost in time is much more a factor for me than the cost in dollars to purchase a game. I want games that respect my time and not be bloated with boring crap just so they can brag about how many hours the main campaign is. Nowadays almost all games overstay their welcome. By time I'm nearing the finish I'm not experiencing a thrill to see the conclusion but a "finally I'm done with this slog" feeling.

 

[balls of snow]

20-30 hours is the ideal playtime if youre not an rpg. I would be fine with more smaller size games but more frequently.
Last year the only hit ubisoft game was ac mirage precisely because of the pricepoint, ip and length. People thought yeah I can digest these games in smaller doses. Also makes the general public really hype for the mega big ac red this year. Same thing with Miles Morales.

 

[KXVXII9X]

Another Men In Boxes thread

 

[Eiknarf]

When people say they want shorter games, they mean they want more focused campaigns that aren’t padded with bullshit.

Instead of bloated development budgets due to cinematic crap, or open worlds that exist to feed a crafting/rpg mechanics, make a linear game that focuses on gameplay.

This ^
That's what I assumed most people not only think of when they say "shorter game", but what most people would agree is good for gaming.

Do people LIKE endless fetch quests or "side missions" helping strangers in a fictional world do random things they should be doing themselves making the game "60 hours"?

"Hey, while you're here, help me find my dog"

"Hey while you're here, I have no power. Can you go power it back on for me?"

"Hey, while you're here, these guys are running a train on my girlfriend. Can you find her scarf for me? It's cold"

etc

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

The problem is MONEY...

I agree.

If Insomniacs Wolverine comes out and is an 8 hr AAA experience...it's not going to cost 1/5th of what it would be at 40hrs.

That's what these "Just make shorter games" people don't understand.

 

[Fbh]

Why are the only 2 options 60+ hours games or 10 hours game?

When I say I want shorter games I don't mean every game should be 10 hours.
I mean Assassins Creed Valhalla would have been better with a 30-40 hours story instead of a bloated 60 hours one
Tales of Arise would have been better at 30 hours instead of adding an extra 10 hours filled with recycled enemies and uninspired dungeons full of bullet sponges
FFXVI would have been better if I wasn't forced to complete what felt like mandatory filler fetch quests in between the actual fun main story missions
GOW Ragnarok would have been better without constantly being interrupted by boring Atreus sections where you mostly just walk around

I agree making 10 hours games in the current market doesn't make sense (at least if it's $70 AAA game), but I think once you reach that 20-25+ hours mark (maybe 30-35+ if it's an RPG) most people stop caring about the length. Like I don't think Spiderman 2 would have sold substantially more if they had streched it out to be 40 hours long and I don't think GOW Ragnarok would have sold worse if the mains story was 20 hours instead of 25.

 

[Three]

It's like people don't remember the 84 page shitstorm regarding a short game's length:

Ready at Dawn responds to "concern" over The Order: 1886 campaign length

Edit: To be clear, he talks about the rumors regarding the game being 3-5 hours before the YouTube video went online. So he is not talking about the video that was made available online, rather the rumors/claims of the game being shorter than 5 hours. Eurogamer interview Ru Weerasuriya and...

www.neogaf.com

Of course now we're going to evangelise short games to set up episodic nonsense and 'engagement' over months.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Nobody wants to spend $70 dollars on a one and done game you can beat in a weekend.

A. Get a job
B. Come back when you have a family

 

[AJUMP23]

Can we make shorter Threads.

 

[StueyDuck]

"Nobody asked for this" was bad.
"They're just following trends" was worse.

Now we have a new phrase flying around that makes us all look bad. That of course is "They should just make shorter games."

This is always brought up in response to the industries shrinking profits.

As if 10 hour AAA games weren't everywhere 15+ years ago. (They died for a reason)

As if no one making games today has thought "What if we just made a shorter game?" (It's not a novel idea)

As if 10 hour games are generating a ton of revenue right now. (Nobody buys these games)

Nobody wants to spend $70 dollars on a one and done game you can beat in a weekend. Can we collectively move on from this embarrassing talking point once and for all? People clearly don't want this.

I just want games that are made well and not padded out like the absolute pain that starfield was.

If I never have to see a zoom in, robotic face with terrible dialog that drags on and on and on and on and on to pad out game time anytime again it still would be too soon

 

[Dacvak]

They should be making shorter games because I’m an adult and don’t have as much time to play games anymore. This is all about meeee.

 

[crackajack]

AC games were already bloated when they were 30h games... every PoP incl the supersoft 2008 one was a more fun experience overall than any AC I played.

Those huge open world with huge storylines and monstrous number of pointless sidequests and filled with countless voiced NPC dumbasses games might sell better, which is sadly the only criticism that counts, but gamers are seemingly dumb. In movies people tend to avoid monumental boring stretched stuff, but in games they invest their lifetime in nonsense. People generally could buy more games if they would not waste hours of their free time doing repetitive stupid stuff. The sooner all publishers get that, the sooner we will play more focused, much better games and just more games in general.

Fuck terrible or at best mediocre filler, cut the content to a short plotline that actually can be shouldered by your gameplay loop.

 

[Luck]

Yes, they should make games shorter - I dont't care about industry profits, but I care about my free time.

 

[Nydius]

When people say they want shorter games, they mean they want more focused campaigns that aren’t padded with bullshit.

100% this. In another topic about AAA games I mentioned that two of my most memorable/enjoyable games this generation were Evil West and Robocop Rogue City. They were both tightly focused experiences with minimal bloat that I got 20-25 hours out of.

The next in the list would be Hogwarts Legacy but that suffered a lot of the typical open world bloat that almost made me burn out until I decided the padding wasn’t worth bothering with.

Too many AAA games these days feel compelled to throw everything and the kitchen sink in them to try to justify their size and expense. I can’t remember the last time a Ubisoft open world game really appealed to me. Maybe Starlink Battle for Atlas because I bought the non toy deluxe edition at launch and found it to be pretty enjoyable.