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[Eddie-Griffin]

These are the top 10 best selling PSVR2 games for the month of February 2023 for the US and EU, digitally of course,
https://news.nweon.com/105960

1. PSVR game download list TOP10 (US region)

ranking	work
1	Kayak VR: Mirage
2	Pavlov
3	Horizon Call of the Mountain
4	Star Wars: Tales from the Galaxy's Edge
5	PISTOL WHIP
6	Moss: Book II
7	Swordsman VR
8	Drums Rock
9	NFL PRO ERA
10	The Light Brigade

2. PSVR game download list TOP10 (Europe)

ranking	work
1	Kayak VR: Mirage
2	Pavlov
3	Horizon Call of the Mountain
4	Star Wars: Tales from the Galaxy's Edge
5	Moss: Book II
6	PISTOL WHIP
7	Job Simulator
8	Swordsman VR
9	Drums Rock
10	After the Fall

Kayak VR is looking to be the defining title for the PSVR2 along with Pavlov. The later of which came out in 2017 and is still holding strong with the PSVR2 upgrades second to the popular Kayak VR. In Europe the old favorite Job Simulator also entered at number 7.

Good performance of Moss Book II, a favorite for many here on Gaf.

The top 4 games are the same for both regions.

There you have it, the top selling hardware for the PlayStation VR2 in the month of Feb 2023, launch month.

 

[Rudius]

That list does not include GT7 and RE8. Those are probably number 1 and 2 on PSVR2, with the rest of the list starting at 3.

 

[Kusarigama]

Why don't they give out sales numbers?

 

[Drizzlehell]

So basically every PSVR 2 game that's currently available.

 

[Kilau]

I’ve resisted the Kayak urge so far but that trailer did its job.

 

[Drizzlehell]

That list does not include GT7 and RE8. Those are probably number 1 and 2 on PSVR2, with the rest of the list starting at 3.

Those aren't native VR games, though. I'm guessing those numbers are for VR exclusive games.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

That list does not include GT7 and RE8. Those are probably number 1 and 2 on PSVR2, with the rest of the list starting at 3.

Over Horizon? Idk Sony put some real money into that game and it stands out much more than those other ones in terms of marketing.

 

[Three]

First time I'm seeing NFL Pro Era and surprised to see it's popular, haven't seen many talk about it here. Is it any good? Trailer doesn’t give much away.

Why don't they give out sales numbers?

They don't give those for regular games, no way they are giving them for VR games.

 

[Three]

Over Horizon? Idk Sony put some real money into that game and it stands out much more than those other ones in terms of marketing.

A lot of people bought Horizon as a bundle and saved money instead of buying it separately. Those won't be on this list.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Why don't they give out sales numbers?

Are you trying to create something that usually isn't there with Sony or Nintendo?

Theses lists never do.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Why don't they give out sales numbers?

They didn't with the first PSVR either.

We only got an announcement in Dec 2017 that Sony sold 12.2 million copies across ALL games retail and digital for PSVR1. Which by that time iirc Sony had more than 140 games by then for it.

Unless PSVR2 has better software adoption rate I doubt we will see numbers for it too from Sony.

First time I'm seeing NFL Pro Era and surprised to see it's popular, haven't seen many talk about it here. Is it any good? Trailer doesn’t give much away.

It's a good experience from a QB point of view but the game is basically just throwing as a QB and not really doing much of anything else. You don't play at all when your team is on defense.

There is content in there to keep fans, especially core fans, interested for a couple weeks, and the experience of being on the field with players close up and crowds is nice, and if you try it you may end up liking it, but just don't expect yourself to be playing it for a long time.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Moss II originally wasn't doing so well on the original PSVR which was way after Sony stopped supporting it much and the userbase was not there, https://www.videogameschronicle.com...e-looks-like-its-had-a-disappointing-release/

However, the games 6th (US) and 5th (EU) place showing here shows that Moss II got a new life with it's improvements on PSVR2 along with newly supported tech. It seems like the old fans that made Moss 1 a success have finally came back to buy Moss 2.

We will have to see how it does for march to see if it's going to be a long term success, but so far Moss II is seeing new life, which is good.

 

[Henry Panic]

If Mirage and Pavlov are the games people are most interested in trying for this new headset, then after a month many of these people will probably leave.

Everyone is learning the wrong lessons from quests failure to keep users invested.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Moss developer is apparently working on an MMO for PSVR2 to broaden accessibility to the headset (price aside) and increase engagement.

Im curious to see if it will turn out better than Zenith.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Well, not a good sign for call of the mountain...think of the budget of that vs pavlov and kayak....

Yeeesh.

Gonna be difficult for Sony to sign off big vr games if they are not going to sell.

 

[onQ123]

Well, not a good sign for call of the mountain...think of the budget of that vs pavlov and kayak....

Yeeesh.

Gonna be difficult for Sony to sign off big vr games if they are not going to sell.

Good thing they can sell hybrid games

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Good thing they can sell hybrid games

Which has never worked so far.

The games people want to buy is Kayak VR quality. I think people need to realize this if they want VR growth to more headsets than just Quest.

They need exclusive POLISHED casual or entry-games that are simplified and easy to get into even if there's no real ambition or moving gameplay forward, like a Nintendo console, at least for NOW.

But when the market grows there will be more room for AAA to thrive.

That is why many of the best selling VR games are old with two exceptions. Although those exceptions one of being Among Us, which itself isn't a new game, just it's VR version.

Instead of stuff like tech demo 48248 or some of the shovelware in the VR store, there needs to be more accessible polished casual games like Kayak VR.

 

[onQ123]

Which has never worked so far.

The games people want to buy is Kayak VR quality. I think people need to realize this if they want VR growth to more headsets than just Quest.

They need exclusive POLISHED casual or entry-games that are simplified and easy to get into even if there's no real ambition or moving gameplay forward, like a Nintendo console, at least for NOW.

But when the market grows there will be more room for AAA to thrive.

That is why many of the best selling VR games are old with two exceptions. Although those exceptions one of being Among Us, which itself isn't a new game, just it's VR version.

Instead of stuff like tech demo 48248 or some of the shovelware in the VR store, there needs to be more accessible polished casual games like Kayak VR.

The hell are you talking about? he/she said it would be difficult for Sony to sign off on big VR games & I said it's a good thing they can sell hybrid games.

I'm saying they don't have to have big budget VR games because big budget games they feature VR modes this is already happening .

GT7 , RE:V and so on is the way to go for big games

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

I said it's a good thing they can sell hybrid games.

I'm saying they don't have to have big budget VR games because big budget games they feature VR modes this is already happening .

Yes, but it's not going to fix the software problem he pointed out, or the headset selling issues.

 

[midnightAI]

Yes, but it's not going to fix the software problem he pointed out, or the headset selling issues.

Why not?

They can make bigger budget games by making hybrid games (such as GT7 and RE), it's the most cost effective and quickest way of getting AAA games on the headset. The more AAA games available for the headset the more attractive it becomes. They don't have to be native AAA games when hybrid does the same job in many respects.

Casual games are all well and good but that won't set apart PSVR2, it's the exclusives, either native or hybrid that will make it different to every other VR headset out there. Software is king, and quality over quantity. Let the third parties/Indies continue with the casual games and let Sony (and big third parties like Capcom) make the quality exclusives.

 

[Minsc]

Yes, but it's not going to fix the software problem he pointed out, or the headset selling issues.

Huh? If all AAA games supported VR it would definitely fix the software issue - there'd be 100s more games to play with the headset. And it would be a lot more appealing to people to have all those games in VR.

 

[Raonak]

Huh? If all AAA games supported VR it would definitely fix the software issue - there'd be 100s more games to play with the headset. And it would be a lot more appealing to people to have all those games in VR.

Yep. Hybrid games essentially fix the software loop.

Not enough sales for VR games => Less high budget VR games=> Less reason to get VR => Less VR sales => Less sold VR games

Hybrid games allows more high budget games for VR, and it allows a new VR buyer to have a decent library from day one.
Stuff like GT7 is a hybrid game, but it's just as impressive as a Full VR game, but with far more content and polish than most.
Plus if you enjoy a flat game, and it has a VR mode that people keep recommending, then you might be convinced to try out VR.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Huh? If all AAA games supported VR it would definitely fix the software issue

AAA has not been selling headsets since this boombegan in 2015, and somehow you guys still aren't getting it even after looking at this list. You are thinking about gaming enthusiasts instead of the people that need to be convinced to buy the headsets to LEAD to MORE AAA in the first place.

With the market as it is now AAA won't happen because there's no numbers or money, which means less investment which means low interest, it's the same pattern over and over and yet people still want a prioritize focus on AAA games despite the data and what we keep seeing.

All triple AAA games supporting VR as a throw away mode (which is what would happen if it was in mass), won't do anything. Even if they were all quality people aren't going to choose in significant numbers to invest in VR along with the flat version of their game, to play it in VR. People don't do that for hybrid games we've seen this fail in VR before in moving numbers of people to VR adoption from PC or console, it doesn't work

Just like hybrid didn't work for 3D or Move, or Kinect either.

Doing the same thing that does not work is not going to suddenly work when there's no change in strategy.

The more AAA games available for the headset the more attractive it becomes.

To who? Not the people that need to buy the headsets to make the market grow. We are around 10 years into this think and all the same talking points are being used. AAA does not happen until growth and competition are healthy first. Many of the people who buy gaming consoles for example, generally buy it for the usual games first, than AAA games second (unless it's something like COD or sports), that's how it's always been early on, and than after the enthusiasts go first, they come in a grow the foundation, then there's games for everyone and people spread around which creates these 10's of million selling game consoles.

Most the biggest games in VR are still 4-7 years old despite all the releases, hybrid games, and even the few AAA games we have, by now that should tell you something, that the hardcore market can't do anything for VR growth. As soon as the 6 month retention rate came back to bite the Quest 2, the big forcast everyone though would happen in 2022 didn't happen and instead we got the reverse with a big percentage decline for the VR market.

 

[onQ123]

Yes, but it's not going to fix the software problem he pointed out, or the headset selling issues.

Think about what you just said lol.

 

[Crayon]

AAA has not been selling headsets since this boombegan in 2015, and somehow you guys still aren't getting it even after looking at this list. You are thinking about gaming enthusiasts instead of the people that need to be convinced to buy the headsets to LEAD to MORE AAA in the first place.

Fucking lol. What aaa games?

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Fucking lol. What aaa games?

You know it's crazy when the enthusiast guys haven't been paying attention tot he AAA games in the space across the last many years except for the same few games.

Think about what you just said lol.

I did, now think about the audience that needs to buy VR headsets that's not gamers on this forum in order for US to receive more AAA games.

 

[midnightAI]

To who? Not the people that need to buy the headsets to make the market grow. We are around 10 years into this think and all the same talking points are being used. AAA does not happen until growth and competition are healthy first. Many of the people who buy gaming consoles for example, generally buy it for the usual games first, than AAA games second (unless it's something like COD or sports), that's how it's always been early on, and than after the enthusiasts go first, they come in a grow the foundation, then there's games for everyone and people spread around which creates these 10's of million selling game consoles.

Most the biggest games in VR are still 4-7 years old despite all the releases, hybrid games, and even the few AAA games we have, by now that should tell you something, that the hardcore market can't do anything for VR growth. As soon as the 6 month retention rate came back to bite the Quest 2, the big forcast everyone though would happen in 2022 didn't happen and instead we got the reverse with a big percentage decline for the VR market.

Sony are different to other VR manufacturers in that they not only developed the headset but also have loads of AAA ip's. PSVR 1 wasnt really powerful enough to have AAA on it so they were few and far between. PSVR 2 on the other hand is powerful enough and we see that with the launch exclusives. If they had brought out a Last of Us VR game whole the hype is high it would have sold like crazy (in my opinion)

Hot take here, but in my opinion Quest is the reason VR is slowing/stagnated, Devs are making games for that because it's the biggest seller (because it was cheap) but it's also low powered meaning casual games became the norm because it simply isn't powerful enough for stand alone for AAA games.
Standalone is the future, but right now it's a curse (I'm talking true standalone, not PC wireless).

 

[Minsc]

AAA has not been selling headsets since this boombegan in 2015, and somehow you guys still aren't getting it even after looking at this list. You are thinking about gaming enthusiasts instead of the people that need to be convinced to buy the headsets to LEAD to MORE AAA in the first place.

With the market as it is now AAA won't happen because there's no numbers or money, which means less investment which means low interest, it's the same pattern over and over and yet people still want a prioritize focus on AAA games despite the data and what we keep seeing.

All triple AAA games supporting VR as a throw away mode (which is what would happen if it was in mass), won't do anything. Even if they were all quality people aren't going to choose in significant numbers to invest in VR along with the flat version of their game, to play it in VR. People don't do that for hybrid games we've seen this fail in VR before in moving numbers of people to VR adoption from PC or console, it doesn't work

Just like hybrid didn't work for 3D or Move, or Kinect either.

Doing the same thing that does not work is not going to suddenly work when there's no change in strategy.

VR is quite different from Move or Kinect (it is immersive on a whole other level), and more importantly these "lists" exclude hybrid games anyway (at least the PSVR2 ones does), which likely would otherwise occupy the top spots.

Even if the VR support was just playing the game with a traditional controller it would still help, in terms of getting over lack of games. Yes to get mainstream it would need exclusives like Alyx, which even then didn't push it very far, but if there were 20 Alyx's a year, then you'd have a different story. But that won't happen, not before hybrid games become more common and the userbase grows.

Really though, you think if a few dozen games on the level of GTA6, TESVI and FFXVI or TLOU all supported a VR headset that was a level beyond PSVR2 (I agree there are still hardware issues that need to be overcome), it wouldn't do it for people? That's all there is, there's only so far you can get with original titles, you need to get the big popular series as well.

 

[Raonak]

AAA

You're completely missing the point. Maybe your argument holds for casual headsets like the quest, but for PSVR, the enthusiast audience is their primary audience (because PS5 is an enthusiast device)

For PSVR2, high quality AAA games is the goal, it's what will convert more PS5 owners into PSVR2 owners.
Making a AAA VR exclusive is very risky, and low ROI.
Where adding a VR mode to an existing AAA game is a lot easier.

The low retention that Quest has is because of low quality games + chasing the casual audience which just use VR as a gimmic.

PSVR2 isn't trying to convert every person in the world into a VR user. That isn't their goal.

Sony wants the PS5 to be the best place for VR gaming.

 

[Solidus_T]

Pavlov looks like a game that would legitimately be a Call of Duty contender if VR was more affordable for the general gamer. Every video I see of people playing this game makes me a little jealous - it looks so fun.

 

[onQ123]

I did, now think about the audience that needs to buy VR headsets that's not gamers on this forum in order for US to receive more AAA games.

The point is that the people who have PSVR2 can get big budget games to play in VR.

None of that other stuff you're coming up with matters if PSVR2 owners can play Spiderman 2 & GTA6 in VR.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Sony are different to other VR manufacturers in that they not only developed the headset but also have loads of AAA ip's. PSVR 1 wasnt really powerful enough to have AAA on it

Yes it was, nonsense. It barely had AA on it too, because Sony knew what games were selling the PSVR1, that's why it sold two million in not much over a one year. They got good looking but polished versions of the games that were making people buy Gear VR's, early PCVR headsets, which is what helped those headsets sell for a few years before the fad popped while the cardboard companies and the bargain bin VR brands all quickly folded.

Sony launched with a crap ton of Quest and older PCVR ports (I mean Job Simulator is on PSVR2 lol) because they know that would help them get the audience they needed. Of course, the price issue and the fact Sony didn't have their own general audience appealing games ready exclusive at launch were also obstacles, but Sony isn't crazy.

If the solution was just to slap a VR mode in some FP and partner TP games they would have already done it. Sony knows the crowds won't come back unless there's a difference playing on VR you can't get anywhere else. Or a massive change made playing in VR. Sony is repeating their PSVR1 plan with some small changes (except for the US where there's basically no stores or demos and you have to buy direct.)

Hot take here, but in my opinion Quest is the reason VR is slowing/stagnated,

The obvious isn't a hot take. Zucker stopped pushing Quest gaming hard specifically to chase outside of gaming, he hasn't released one new game from any acquisition since 2016. That seems to be why at their GDC, they are highlighting future shifts that will likely be coming along with the Quest 3, so as the Quest 2 declines since the peak fad is over, the market is going to decline with it until the Quest 3, or better competition comes in and fills the vacuum Zucker created with the Quest 2.

It's only now that he's taking a step back from his internet 2.0 and pivoting more toward gaming again. It's also why he's killing the Quest 1 support, and is pushing UE5 as a near mandate, especially for Quest 3 (and Venture) so right now if you are in VR you HAVE to go to Quest's ecosystem because nowhere else will give you anywhere near the same chance as making decent money. Quest 2 is declining, and software engagement is iffy, but it's not dropping off lie lead, it's a gradual decline.

Standalone is not a curse either. Quest 2 was a replacement for the Quest 1, it was never launched to have a significant power gap because the Quest 1 sold successfully on price, and the Quest 2 being somewhat stronger was also aiming for that. So you're basically looking at enhanced 2019 hardware on the lower-end on sell for over 2 years now. Quest 2 however can run AAA games, just not with the same quality as a stronger headset, but that's to be expected since it was supposed to be a cheap entry-level into VR.

The fact you're using Quest as a reason to attack Standalone is odd, since almost every other standalone headset is much stronger than the Quest 2, including several there are threads on, that can run AAA and even A and AA games in circles around the Quest 2.

I think that's the big issue people don't get with the Quest 2, it's customized older hardware technically running on it's 5th year in some ways, but over 2 years overall, for a headset that wasn't a huge leap over the first one, which was replaced in one year because of external issues and they didn't want to lose momentum. When people talk about the Quest headsets power 1 or 2, they seem to always for get this.

I mean there are pre-Quest 1 headsets, more capable than the Quest 1 or 2. launched pre-2019. If anything Quest showed how poorly VR has been handled when many headsets stronger have had issues competing in performance for several games.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Well, not a good sign for call of the mountain...think of the budget of that vs pavlov and kayak....

Yeeesh.

Gonna be difficult for Sony to sign off big vr games if they are not going to sell.

Bundles don’t count in these numbers. Most people bought CoTM with the hesdset

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Yes to get mainstream it would need exclusives like Alyx,

it would need exclusives like Kayak VR and Beat Saber, or PavLov. Not Alyx.

I'm still baffled people don't get this even with this list which mimics the consumer buying patter for the last 7 years. You need to get the general audience to buy the headsets to get more investment leading to more Alyx's, you can't expect nothing and then have an Alyx take nothing and turn it into growth, that's now how the VR market has ever worked.

You can get some gamers to jump with that but that's not sustainable. We saw that before Quest, and now as it's declining.

but for PSVR, the enthusiast audience is their primary audience

This is nothing more than hope, 90%+ of their gaming line up for the thing id aiming for the groups you are saying it's not for because Sony knows they need those groups, and offering better versions, sometimes more than just a bit, of those games including very old games like Job Simulator.

Their strategy is no different than PSVR1, the issue is PSVR1 was during a boom for VR when people though when we were further tha we were, coverage was ramped even outside the industry, demos everywhere, and stores has incentives to push VR onto you, even cardboard. PSVR1 had the games they wanted to play and exclusives in that same vein that they also wanted.

Sony can't sell 2 million PSVR2's in a little over a year like PSVR1, with the enthusiast audience. That's basically been most of the VR market outside of Quest for the last 4 years and nothing has happened or moved. Biggest moves outside of Quest were when Quest published games outside their headset, or helped fund a game that ended up releasing outside of their headset. Beat Saber probably helped other headsets pretty well too. Without those VR outside of Quest may be near extinct.

The low retention that Quest has is because of low quality games + chasing the casual audience which just use VR as a gimmic.

VR as a whole has low retention. You're taking the Leak (which then was confirmed) by Meta as some sign they are unique, yet still the only one people are buying.

VR headsets in general have lost the audiences they had before since 2018 onward. Quest 1 and 2 were the only significant increases outside of Pico, which is still not in the US yet, but will be this year.

But I bet that has low retention too.

 

[Raonak]

Another reason why hybrid AAA games are a great idea is because it's actually a great showcase of the strengths of VR. When you can directly compare a Flat game to it's VR counterpart.
It's a huge part in what will convert normal gamers to VR fans. Being able to leverage the normal audience of the game is a big advantage.

Like think about it this way: Would you really prefer VR spinoffs of GT or RE, which will likely have far less content than the real games. Or would you actually play the full games in both modes?

Plus, hybrid AAA games isn't taking resources away from standalone VR games. They can both exist.
You'll still need standalone games for sure, but hybrid games allows for far more AAA VR games because of less resource cost.

 

[midnightAI]

Another reason why hybrid AAA games are a great idea is because it's actually a great showcase of the strengths of VR. When you can directly compare a Flat game to it's VR counterpart.
It's a huge part in what will convert normal gamers to VR fans. Being able to leverage the normal audience of the game is a big advantage.

Like think about it this way: Would you really prefer VR spinoffs of GT or RE, which will likely have far less content than the real games. Or would you actually play the full games in both modes?

Plus, hybrid AAA games isn't taking resources away from standalone VR games. They can both exist.
You'll still need standalone games for sure, but hybrid games allows for far more AAA VR games because of less resource cost.

Shhhh, don't say this too loudly, he'll hear you

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Like think about it this way: Would you really prefer VR spinoffs of GT or RE, which will likely have far less content than the real games. Or would you actually play the full games in

Neither, the general consumers want exclusive VR experienced to show off VR WITH content and not a TV game with a VR mode, or a spin-off with a C-budget. We have 10 years of data to show this.

The enthusiasts are completely out of tune and are making the same suggestions made 6 years ago that didn't work.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Neither, the general consumers want exclusive VR experienced to show off VR WITH content and not a TV game with a VR mode, or a spin-off with a C-budget. We have 10 years of data to show this.

The enthusiasts are completely out of tune and are making the same suggestions made 6 years ago that didn't work.

RE7 is one of the most heralded VR titles, so nah, you're wrong

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

RE7 is one of the most heralded VR titles, so nah, you're wrong

Except I'm not because general consumers were not rushing out to get headsets for RE7.

Again out of tune with the market.

 

[Raonak]

This is nothing more than delusional coping, 90%+ of their gaming line up for the thing id aiming for the groups you are saying it's not for because Sony knows they need those groups, and offering better versions, sometimes more than just a bit, of those games including very old games like Job Simulator.

LOL what are you talking about?

PS5 is literally an enthusiast device.
You need a PS5 to play PSVR2.

Do you think a sizable amount of the general public is gonna drop the money for PS5 AND PSVR2? No of course not.
Quest has already tried with the casual audience and it's led to nothing.

PSVR2 is an enthusiast device.

It's not cope, it's reality.

Sony is using PSVR to make the PS5 more appealing in general.
Sony want to make PS5 the best place to play for both Flat and VR games.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

PS5 is literally an enthusiast device.

So enthusiasts got it over 30 million sales? Really?

Do you think a sizable amount of the general public is gonna drop the money for PS5 AND PSVR2?

Even just a PSVR2 is an issue at this point, which is why Sony launched with a bunch of software clearly not aimed at enthusiast gamers. Who do you think those games were for?

Sony is using PSVR to make the PS5 more appealing in general.

Sony is using PSVR to try and add more attraction to the PS5 broadly, as well as to get the people who left the PSVR1 out of VR or went to another headset. Sony wants to compete in the VR market, they aren't Valve, they aren't there to sell few headsets at a profit to a niche group. That has never been Sony's goal since the PSVR1, that isn't their Goal with the PSVR 2 either.

They clearly want to have marketshare in VR as they did before with PSVR1, this belief they are only selling or trying to sell to enthusiasts holds zero merit and is just an assumption. But the assumption doesn't work very well because their actions contradict it. As well as their top brought games as shown here.

You guys are treating Sony like they're HTC.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Except I'm not because general consumers were not rushing out to get headsets for RE7.

Again out of tune with the market.

What single title were gamers “rushing out to buy headsets” for?

 

[midnightAI]

Except I'm not because general consumers were not rushing out to get headsets for RE7.

Again out of tune with the market.

The market has stagnated, why do you want it to remain so. You keep saying they tried it 6 years ago, who did? Sony didn't, there was what, three hybrid games, none made by Sony? They already have two at launch for PSVR 2 along with.a high quality VR native exclusive (aimed at the more casual market to its detriment)

At least Sony are attempting something different, casual games in VR are ok for a while but the novelty soon wears off, that's why headsets sit collecting dust. Hybrid games/AAA games will hopefully change that, I bet most people will put more time into GT7 than pretty much any other VR game this year.

Now it's to be seen if Sony continue the hybrid route but it's looking promising so far (come on Sony, bring me either Killzone or Resistance hybrid remakes/reimaginings)

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

What single title were gamers “rushing out to buy headsets” for?

I didn't say single title.

Also we have a best selling VR games thread. Almost all the reported best selling titles are old.

The recent titles that are selling that are new, like Among US VR, aren't exactly GT7 or Halo.

Neither is Kayak VR, which tops the list here.

The pattern is notable.

 

[Raonak]

So enthusiasts got it over 30 million sales? Really?



Even just a PSVR2 is an issue at this point, which is why Sony launched with a bunch of software clearly not aimed at enthusiast gamers. Who do you think those games were for?



Sony is using PSVR to try and add more attraction to the PS5 broadly, as well as to get the people who left the PSVR1 out of VR or went to another headset. Sony wants to compete in the VR market, they aren't Valve, they aren't there to sell few headsets at a profit to a niche group. That has never been Sony's goal since the PSVR1, that isn't their Goal with the PSVR 2 either.

They clearly want to have marketshare in VR as they did before with PSVR1, this belief they are only selling or trying to sell to enthusiasts holds zero merit and is just an assumption. But the assumption doesn't work very well because their actions contradict it. As well as their top brought games as shown here.

You guys are treating Sony like they're HTC.

Yes, the enthusiasts are the primary owners of the PS5.
They're the ones who buy hardware when it comes out. These are people who know know how to use a controller.
They are the ones who will actually buy a dedicated console to play games over just gaming on their smartphones.

I'm not talking about forum dwellers here.

Kayak VR is cool. But people aren't gonna be booting up their VR headset every day to play that.

Sony wants a marketshare of VR I'm not disputing that.

I'm disputing the idea that the casual audience will drive VR. Quest has proven it will not.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

The market has stagnated, why do you want it to remain so.

The market was stagnating before Quest.

Quest hasn't put out any new major games since Beat Saber. Only helping withthe recently published Among US VR, which sold over 1 million copies in less than 3 months

Me pointing out the games the general consumers want to play is the solution to the stagnation, you're viewing it as supporting the stagnation because you are believing that Quest has been pushing the same caliber of games as BSaber or Among US VR this whole time, they haven't.

It's stagnating because there's been nothing new major to play. That's why Among Us VR was selling so fast, and why here, people ran to Kayak and Pavlov.

At least Sony are attempting something different

Huh?

The only headset that's going to try something signficantly different is whatever TCL, Samsung, Or Apples puts out, otherwise we are seeing iterations of the same strategies.

Even Quest 3 likely won't be as successful as 2, unless they go incredibly hard on gaming and paid deals, or finally getting GTA: San Andreas VR finished with a mass marketing campaign along with several internal titles they have yet to release since acquiring studios. If they mess that up, then even at a lower price (compared to the competition) Quest 3 won't be as massive as Quest 2.

Sony of course, will react accordingly, I doubt they are going to just sit around. I'm sure Sony is also working on their own accessories, and possible motion control updates to keep up.

Sony has 100 games in the pipeline, I'm sure some of those will be exclusives.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Yes, the enthusiasts are the primary owners of the PS5.
They're the ones who buy hardware when it comes out. These are people who know know how to use a controller.
They are the ones who will actually buy a dedicated console to play games over just gaming on their smartphones.

I'm not talking about forum dwellers here.

Kayak VR is cool. But people aren't gonna be booting up their VR headset every day to play that.

Sony wants a marketshare of VR I'm not disputing that.

I'm disputing the idea that the casual audience will drive VR. Quest has proven it will not.

Quest has proven it will if you keep support going and appeal to them. They did not.

If you're just going off retention then all of VR has proven that enthusiasts can't drive it either. Because all the software engagement and sales are in Quests ecosystem.

You're going with the false assumption Quest is the only headset with retention problems because that's the only one that had that fact leaked out, and then confirmed later.

You are also trying to separate enthusiasts from hardcore VR players on forums and reddit, problem is that contradicts the definition of enthusiasts all the analysts uses. The Madden Fifa, and the generic COD players are not considered "enthusiast" gamers usually. They are considered softcore, sometimes wrongfully called casual, though it's a different casual than say, the people who brough the Wii.

The market of Madden and COD players won't jump on VR until the investment is there and growth, you need the casuals to come in and build the floor before they those will come in. That's how VR has worked since cardboard and original Vive. The market is too small to work the other way around.

You'd be surprised how many day 1 buyers of PSVR2 had Quests 2's already.

 

[Minsc]

it would need exclusives like Kayak VR and Beat Saber, or PavLov. Not Alyx.

I'm still baffled people don't get this even with this list which mimics the consumer buying patter for the last 7 years. You need to get the general audience to buy the headsets to get more investment leading to more Alyx's, you can't expect nothing and then have an Alyx take nothing and turn it into growth, that's now how the VR market has ever worked.

You can get some gamers to jump with that but that's not sustainable. We saw that before Quest, and now as it's declining.



This is nothing more than hope, 90%+ of their gaming line up for the thing id aiming for the groups you are saying it's not for because Sony knows they need those groups, and offering better versions, sometimes more than just a bit, of those games including very old games like Job Simulator.

Their strategy is no different than PSVR1, the issue is PSVR1 was during a boom for VR when people though when we were further tha we were, coverage was ramped even outside the industry, demos everywhere, and stores has incentives to push VR onto you, even cardboard. PSVR1 had the games they wanted to play and exclusives in that same vein that they also wanted.

Sony can't sell 2 million PSVR2's in a little over a year like PSVR1, with the enthusiast audience. That's basically been most of the VR market outside of Quest for the last 4 years and nothing has happened or moved. Biggest moves outside of Quest were when Quest published games outside their headset, or helped fund a game that ended up releasing outside of their headset. Beat Saber probably helped other headsets pretty well too. Without those VR outside of Quest may be near extinct.



VR as a whole has low retention. You're taking the Leak (which then was confirmed) by Meta as some sign they are unique, yet still the only one people are buying.

VR headsets in general have lost the audiences they had before since 2018 onward. Quest 1 and 2 were the only significant increases outside of Pico, which is still not in the US yet, but will be this year.

But I bet that has low retention too.

Do you have a VR headset that's recent? Sometimes I wonder if you even know the games you're talking about. Kayak is selling because it is a launch game and looks great visually.

Once you play it for a few hours, that's it. There's really nothing more to it. In fact, until Switchback was released to horrible quality, Kayak held the title for buyer's regret (well outside maybe the VR2 itself). It is a very hard game to not feel nausea with, so it's bad for beginners, and the rowing gets old fast. Other than teleporting to the locations, all there is are the races. It's very short on content and not a game that VR should aspire to at all IMO.

And again the reason GT7 and RE8 aren't in the charts, well are you just playing stupid? We've argued this a dozen times, the reason is because they're not ALLOWED to be in the charts, because the charts don't count hybrid games. So claiming they aren't "selling well" when in fact I'm sure GT7 and RE8 sales are the two biggest selling games on the system now seems kinda crazy (I mean both games have more copies sold than there are PSVR2s I imagine, due to their hybrid nature, which goes back to the initial point of getting more AAA games - then when people get VR systems, there are actually games to play and see how different/improved they are to flat games).

Maybe you think VR systems can't capture mainstream console gaming? And that the way forward for VR is not to have experiences like Alyx or RE7 or GT7 in VR, but to have quirky indie type experiences - similar to how Wii Sports skyrocketed the Wii to brand new audiences? The problem is you're not going to ever get people in retirement centers playing PSVR2 like with the Wii, the hardware just isn't ready for that. And I disagree with you that the way forward for VR isn't AAA games, that's exactly what there needs to be magnitudes more of. But I guess we'll see.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Also we have a best selling VR games thread. Almost all the reported best selling titles are old.

1 is bundled

The other two don’t get counted as VR sales

 

[midnightAI]

The market was stagnating before Quest.

Quest hasn't put out any new major games since Beat Saber. Only helping withthe recently published Among US VR, which sold over 1 million copies in less than 3 months

Me pointing out the games the general consumers want to play is the solution to the stagnation, you're viewing it as supporting the stagnation because you are believing that Quest has been pushing the same caliber of games as BSaber or Among US VR this whole time, they haven't.

It's stagnating because there's been nothing new major to play. That's why Among Us VR was selling so fast, and why here, people ran to Kayak and Pavlov.



Huh?

The only headset that's going to try something signficantly different is whatever TCL, Samsung, Or Apples puts out, otherwise we are seeing iterations of the same strategies.

Even Quest 3 likely won't be as successful as 2, unless they go incredibly hard on gaming and paid deals, or finally getting GTA: San Andreas VR finished with a mass marketing campaign along with several internal titles they have yet to release since acquiring studios. If they mess that up, then even at a lower price (compared to the competition) Quest 3 won't be as massive as Quest 2.

Sony of course, will react accordingly, I doubt they are going to just sit around. I'm sure Sony is also working on their own accessories, and possible motion control updates to keep up.

Sony has 100 games in the pipeline, I'm sure some of those will be exclusives.

I'm talking about games not headsets, I couldn't give a shit about what those other headsets do if they are just going to bring those same casual games because they are still underpowered to do anything else (Apple 'may' be the outlier here as it 'should' be powerful, but their whole game strategy seems to mainly still revolve around mobile like games and there is still no proof they are even aiming the headset at gaming)

(And ooh look, we can now do casual games in AR/MR/XR/BBQ and ooh, experiences.... Pfff, whatever, I play games to escape the real world)

But you even agree is stagnating because there is nothing new and major to play, well there is... GT7 and RE Village, both hybrid games and I bet those two are the games PSVR2 purchasers mainly wanted to play especially as they probably already owned and played them on flat screen (a major benefit of hybrid).. And that's just the start, I expect Sony to announce new titles whenever they decide to do a showcase.

Sony's strategy with PSVR2 was/is hybrid games, that is a different strategy to every single other headset manufacturer who rely solely/extremely heavily on third party casual games. Of course Sony will still have casual games from third parties, that's a given (and foolish not to from both sides), but it's Sony's first party/third party exclusives that will drive people towards their headset. Whether you think that's a wise strategy or not is irrelevant as that's what Sony is going for and I'm all for it, like I said, they have a large AAA catalog they can pull from as seen with Horizon)

Anyway, pointless bickering, you have your opinions and that's fine, mine differ.