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destructive environments isn't really original or creative
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This is the poorest generation of all time at creative standpoint...
- Thread starter Angel_DvA
- Start date
destructive environments isn't really original or creative
I'm currently playing stuff I've missed out on the PS4, Uncharted, The Order, Infamous, Knack, Killzone(out of those I probably had the most fun with the Order, lol) -Those games feel very mediocre and I truly wonder how they could have ended up with such high scores.
I finally started Bloodborne today though and I am enjoying it, if you can even say something like enjoying a game with such a punishing game design. It's nothing quite new though, it feels very much like the standard souls game so far, when it comes to its formula.
I've finished Nier Automata and Persona 5 a while ago, both games were really good but they also felt somewhat lacking, it's hard to point my finger on their weaknesses though.
The only game that really, really captured my attention was Breath of the Wild though, the first game in a decade(or two) that I was looking forward to play every single day until I've reached about 110 hours with it.
Many games have become "more of the same" it seems, I am at a point where I can even guess what happens next, developers rarely surprise me, which is not a good thing in my opinion. I also think many gamers feel the same, there is some kind of fatigue sneaking up behind us and it might hit us hard at some point...
That said, while I enjoyed Breath of the Wild very much, even inovative titles like ARMS couldn't keep my attention for very long, as for Splatoon 2 I canceled my preorder after playing the splatfest for about two hours, the game is just not for me I guess. At this point I'm just waiting for Mario Odyssey to save me and the Champions Ballade after that...
I finally started Bloodborne today though and I am enjoying it, if you can even say something like enjoying a game with such a punishing game design. It's nothing quite new though, it feels very much like the standard souls game so far, when it comes to its formula.
I've finished Nier Automata and Persona 5 a while ago, both games were really good but they also felt somewhat lacking, it's hard to point my finger on their weaknesses though.
The only game that really, really captured my attention was Breath of the Wild though, the first game in a decade(or two) that I was looking forward to play every single day until I've reached about 110 hours with it.
Many games have become "more of the same" it seems, I am at a point where I can even guess what happens next, developers rarely surprise me, which is not a good thing in my opinion. I also think many gamers feel the same, there is some kind of fatigue sneaking up behind us and it might hit us hard at some point...
That said, while I enjoyed Breath of the Wild very much, even inovative titles like ARMS couldn't keep my attention for very long, as for Splatoon 2 I canceled my preorder after playing the splatfest for about two hours, the game is just not for me I guess. At this point I'm just waiting for Mario Odyssey to save me and the Champions Ballade after that...
I've noticed that as budgets increase, creativity dies. It makes sense, from a risk management view, but innovation is stifled when it could be more profitable to simply go for something original. Another thing is that better technology removes the need to innovate too. Workarounds are still a thing, but not nearly as far-reaching or necessary. Those forced a lot of decisions.
Council Pop
Member
I honestly think that indie games are more interesting than ever, AAA games are more interesting than ever, and we've finally seen a re-emergence of AA games (Life Is Strange springs to mind).
Games are more diverse in every way, especially in terms of mechanics and representation, and we're finally beginning to ask ourselves "What even is a game, anyway?".
We're also relating games to other artforms much more- cinema, theatre, visual art, music. Gaming is 'mainstream', but not in that it's commercially successful, but that it's artistically successful. I really feel like games are moving out of 'tech' and into 'arts and culture', which is wonderful and long overdue.
Just an amazing era.
Games are more diverse in every way, especially in terms of mechanics and representation, and we're finally beginning to ask ourselves "What even is a game, anyway?".
We're also relating games to other artforms much more- cinema, theatre, visual art, music. Gaming is 'mainstream', but not in that it's commercially successful, but that it's artistically successful. I really feel like games are moving out of 'tech' and into 'arts and culture', which is wonderful and long overdue.
Just an amazing era.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Skydiving onto a massive map with nothing, and having to scour for your items/weapons while trying to be the last person standing, Hunger Game's style?
While I get that there's been another game or two on PC that did something similar, this is completely new and fresh to me.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Indie scene is doing great and we are getting some awesome AAA stuff. I'm loving both ends of it. The only thing I'm really missing this gen is the wacky B-tier games that were plenty on PS2 , Wii, and DS.
As for sequels, stuff like Final Fantasy (and most Nintendo franchises) usually give hard reboots with each sequel offering new ideas. So it's not fair to write these off as "lacking creativity" just cause they're sequels.
All in all, I'm enjoying this gen a hell of a lot more than last gen and its, at the time, seemingly never ending FPS/Shooter kick. I never wanna endure that again.
As for sequels, stuff like Final Fantasy (and most Nintendo franchises) usually give hard reboots with each sequel offering new ideas. So it's not fair to write these off as "lacking creativity" just cause they're sequels.
All in all, I'm enjoying this gen a hell of a lot more than last gen and its, at the time, seemingly never ending FPS/Shooter kick. I never wanna endure that again.
Honestly, I dont think the "problem" is creativity, but more than this generation feels like a continuation of previous one, like never before. Part of that, probably, is due to the fact that technologically speaking, the jump was not that big.
IcyRhythms
Member
Yeah. lol
Until I read your last line I was like "Uhhhhhh Skydiving, massive maps, and survival elements have been in many other games."
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I think it's sort of a situation like Doom. Wolfenstein 3D was first, but Doom seems to get all the love.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
This has been the most diverse gaming era of all fucking time. I mean they brought back some 3D platforming mascot games for fuck's sake. Name a genre at you just about have the pinnacle of their genre released during this gen.
rayman1900
Member
It's not the fact that it was in many other games, it's the fact that the mix of those could potentially create a new experience.
NintendosBooger
Member
Post it, mofo!
IcyRhythms
Member
Sure. I've enjoyed many games that do the same. That doesn't really make it super creative/original, though.
SMOK3Y
Generous Member
Horizon Zero Dawn?
eXistor
Member
This seems to be proving his point though? Most games released are inspired by old games, they all seemingly seem content with standing on the shoulders of giants instead of being their own thing. I don't necessarily agree that games these days are devoid of creativity (though it has become too much of a focus-grouped industry), but the gap between indies and AAA space is gigantic: either you have a bland, homogeneous games constructed on assembly lines or you have low-budget, short, one-trick-pony indies. There's lots of exceptions of course (I wouldn't even be gaming anymore if that weren't the case), but that is the feeling I get on the whole.
I'm playing it right now and it's your standard open world game with standard open world game design.
It's beautiful and well made, but it doesn't do anything new or even better than other games in the genre.
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
Except the combat is actually good. Otherwise, I pretty much agree.
eXistor
Member
Come on now, talk about a bland, homogeneous derivative game (hell, I even kinda like the game...in a way). You can't seriously think Horizon brings anything new to the table unless you're young and haven't played too many games. Sorry if that sounds disdainful, I don't mean to attack you or anything, but Horizon is a poster-boy for the kind of games the OP means. It's relatively well done for the most part, but I dont think I can think of one element I haven't already seen (done better) in other games.
This is actually one of my favorite generations in a while. I really did not like the early 360/PS3 era where a bunch of games had modes missing and barely any content. Even in the end, games I really wanted were poorer versions than their predecessors like FFXIII, DMC4, RE5...
I'm consistently impressed with visuals this gen too. Even though it wasn't that much of a jump graphically, I feel like games have way better animations and color variety than last gen.
I'm consistently impressed with visuals this gen too. Even though it wasn't that much of a jump graphically, I feel like games have way better animations and color variety than last gen.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
I haven't really seen a generation defining game yet (like Gears of War or Resident Evil 4), but there is still creativity everywhere now that indies can self publish games.
I suppose if there is one generation defining title so far, it would be Overwatch. But idk about calling it generation defining just yet.
I suppose if there is one generation defining title so far, it would be Overwatch. But idk about calling it generation defining just yet.
High scores ? Lol
Chronospherics
Member
Games cost more to make.
It's like saying games are less creative than comic books.
Sure they are, but you don't waste $200,000,000 by writing a bad comic book.
Like music and film, games are becoming more thematically homogeneous as developers and publisher alike mediate the increasing development costs, by reducing risk - making the games that they already know people like.
Indies are great but they don't have the tools to make the triple A experiences. For instance, genres like cinematic action games, are often beyond the scope of indy game dev because it requires a large team of multi-faceted employees (animators, voice actors, etc etc), while online heavy games require staff that know their netcode, servers, and additional resources. As a result we're seeing indies constantly iterate in certain genres, like Metroidvania, Roguelike, and local multiplayer games, but very little iteration on genres where there's a higher financial barrier to entry.
It's like saying games are less creative than comic books.
Sure they are, but you don't waste $200,000,000 by writing a bad comic book.
Like music and film, games are becoming more thematically homogeneous as developers and publisher alike mediate the increasing development costs, by reducing risk - making the games that they already know people like.
Indies are great but they don't have the tools to make the triple A experiences. For instance, genres like cinematic action games, are often beyond the scope of indy game dev because it requires a large team of multi-faceted employees (animators, voice actors, etc etc), while online heavy games require staff that know their netcode, servers, and additional resources. As a result we're seeing indies constantly iterate in certain genres, like Metroidvania, Roguelike, and local multiplayer games, but very little iteration on genres where there's a higher financial barrier to entry.
PUBG is not a survival game.
a round is about 30 minutes long, if you survive.
scouring for equipment is more like looking for a weapon in quake than looking for one in Day Z.
What makes it different is the scale and the pace of the engagments. Even on PC, that's not something we've seen in a PVP setting often, and with that polish.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
and that that constitutes game design discussion and analysis on these boards is why GAF is a shitshow
individual elements being found in very different forms in other games don't count against PUBG coming together to form a very different whole than any of those games. That's usually how it goes when games are picked apart piecemeal and reduced to the elements that make those games up, as though those elements are separate, in a vaccuum.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
There are plenty of games out this generation that could fit that description; you're just ignorant to them.
The only reason this thread is as long as it is is because y'all are ignorant. That's it. Period. The kind of people who are less interested in today's games but can't rationalize even for a second that that's completely on you, and not some symptom of games simply failing to meet your lofty standards anymore.
IcyRhythms
Member
I didn't say it couldn't be different. I'm just saying the majority of ideas are not original at all.
phantasmic_glaive
Member
Give it some time man. Skyrim vr is out this year!
First, you can't let the jade get you. If it does, then years from now you'll be looking at certain games saying; "why didn't you guys tell me this game was good?"
There are games out there, try the Yakuza series.
There are some indie games (I hate this term) like Furi, thumper, Snake Pass (..hate this game too but people seem to like it), pyre, Ori and the Blind forest, Headlander, Dragons Crown( this needs to be brought back), etc.
Later this year you have Dragons dogma if you missed it, a new Mario: Odyssey, or Splatoon. Crash trilogy is fn great and feels new. Never played sunset overdrive? Me either, but I have it and I think it's next in the queue.
Try. Just try some stuff out.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
That is not valuable analysis. You pointed out that some underlying ideas that coalesce to form an extremely original and fresh game aren't utterly original, that PUBG isn't the progenitor for all of its ideas...
so what? That logic applies to nearly ALL of gaming's freshest games. It's the shittiest kind of analysis there is on this website. It doesn't even take context into consideration. It's just bleating.
PUBG is new and innovative and there's very few games like it. It's very telling that there's people here who would deny PUBG that because "lol THAT's 'innovation'? pubg has maps and guns and gameplay WOW I've seen all that before!!!"
Shit reminds me of pre-release BoTW discussion. I will use BoTW's climbing as an example. That's not something you see in open world RPGs. It's a genuinely different feature that has you tackling traversal and pathfinding differently in an RPG context.
GAF: "lol wow zelda didn'tt invent climbing, haven't u ever played Gro Home? lolol"
lifeexpectancy
Member
ITT: Someone who doesnt play indie games complains about creativity.
If anything this is the most creative gen yet. All kinds of new experiences.
If anything this is the most creative gen yet. All kinds of new experiences.
What A Time To Be Alive
Member
There's still a lot of creativity now if you look indie games.
Not gonna lie tho we're never gonna have another 6th gen tho. Some of the games the PS2 got.....my lord D:
That has to do more with how the industry is now and what sells between back then and now. Also games were cheaper to develop so those major companies were willing to drop a little cash on your weird ass idea.
Not gonna lie tho we're never gonna have another 6th gen tho. Some of the games the PS2 got.....my lord D:
That has to do more with how the industry is now and what sells between back then and now. Also games were cheaper to develop so those major companies were willing to drop a little cash on your weird ass idea.
harriet the spy
Member
While there are many excellent games - I have to agree. The number of bold new IPs seems much lower than last gen which seemed like a renewal of console gaming - in many ways this gen is just a continuation. It's just fine with me though.
ghostwritingduck
Member
I think Witcher 3 is a standout game that likely couldn't have been done on previous generation consoles.
In terms of creativity, it's all subjective. I could say Superhot, but someone might argue that it's just a first person shooter or doesn't count because it's an indie. I could point to Mario Odyssey and BOTW, but someone might point out that how can a 30 year old series be considered new or creative. Mordor's nemesis system offered a new gameplay experience that current games haven't attempted to duplicate.
In order to argue that this generation is truly creatively lacking, I think someone should point to which generation was more creative.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
um wowoowowowowowow
wow
WOOOOW I feel like DSP reading this post
There's never been more collaboration games and creative competitive games for local coop play than there is now.
There's never been better collaboration games and creative competitive games than there are right now.
This is the best era ever for enjoying these kinds of games, and it's not even close!
I'm just sitting over here like WOOOOOW
Council Pop
Member
Like, the entire history of art cinema begs to differ. Films aren't becoming more homogeneous at all. But with film, you have a lot of state funding which subsidises risk taking projects.
I mean, just to take British film as an example, last year you had American Honey, which was funded by the British Film Institute and Film4, both publicly owned, and earlier this year Lady Macbeth, which was funded by the BBC and Creative England.
British developers like The Chinese Room have received funding similar to this, but certainly not to the tune of $3.5million (the budget of American Honey).
That's why the big budget, ambitious games tend to come from Nintendo and Sony's in-house studios.
Developers just don't have the funding options open to them, because the games industry isn't appropriately structured to support creative works, even if it wants to. I expect that future funding and publishing for ambitious games in Europe will come increasingly from the film sector. The UK's leading film school already has a game design course, and of course we have gaming BAFTAs now.
Atari was by far the worst console generation when it came to creativity and quality.
So many cheap rip offs of popular arcade games. Even a lot of the actual ports from the company that made the games were crap.
I won't argue that creativity is lacking right now or maybe better to say it could improve, but it is certainly nowhere near as bad as it was right before the crash.
So many cheap rip offs of popular arcade games. Even a lot of the actual ports from the company that made the games were crap.
I won't argue that creativity is lacking right now or maybe better to say it could improve, but it is certainly nowhere near as bad as it was right before the crash.
What is original or done better in that game?
The problem is budgets continue to bloat, development times continue to rise and, as a result, risk continues to rise even as you come to a point where something has to change and because thinking is so focused and well researched as to what has worked because of said risk it becomes harder to come up with what will work in the future. And that's why you have low budget, alternative stuff to capitalize on the desire for something different among the audience. The big, expensive business can't easily perform that function.
Gaming is going to have it particularly bad as it is particularly expensive.
You can't throw a generation under the bus for the inevitable result of billion dollar franchises. It's like going to a Transformers movie and being like grrr I'm not being emotionally
and intellectually and creatively challenged!
Indies aren't necessarily all pixel art and 1½ hour interactive poems now. They encompass things like RedOut in a time when the developer of WipeOut is shut down. The market has just readjusted, and players need to stop looking to the big publishers to provide the type of mid-range, nimble and creative experiences they used to.
For better and worse, of course. Sometimes you want to have production values shower over you for 50 hours.
and intellectually and creatively challenged!
Indies aren't necessarily all pixel art and 1½ hour interactive poems now. They encompass things like RedOut in a time when the developer of WipeOut is shut down. The market has just readjusted, and players need to stop looking to the big publishers to provide the type of mid-range, nimble and creative experiences they used to.
For better and worse, of course. Sometimes you want to have production values shower over you for 50 hours.
NintendosBooger
Member
Post them, otherwise keep the dramatic teen responses to yourself. Show me all of these creative and innovative local multiplayer games of this gen compared to previous ones. And to reiterate, I'm not into sports/fighting games or shooters.
Now go.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Not technically but they aren't sequels of any existing games either.
Theslammer
Member
lol
Baffled why people looking for creativity just put their focus and attention around AAA games. The budgets for big games have gone up to the point they regularly need to play it safe like blockbuster movies, and aren't some art house experience trying something new or profound. Shadow of Mordor at least created the nemesis system though, which was a new experience...though everything else in the game was stuff taken from other games.
Even Kojima building himself as an "auteur", chucking his name on everything, and getting associated for games he only acted as a producer on...has been chained to one series for over a decade. The dude said I would pay for my words and deeds with his sexy sniper, then gave the most garbage sci-fi reasoning to excuse it. Kojima likes to talk big, and I don't even trust him to deliver some radical new gameplay concept...especially when all he's shown are some stupid tone-piece trailers with more whales. I just think he'll make something fairly iterative gameplay wise, and have some bonkers cutscenes per usual.
Maybe explore outside big-budget games, there are a host of mid-tier and small indie games to delve in that are new IP, and to stand out have to do something new...or at least combine known ideas together. Offworld Trading Company built an RTS around a player-driven changing market where economy is all you have against competing CEOs. Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons, where you control two characters at the same time, the story is driven by player actions, and mechanics are altered by changes in the story. Invisible Inc., the turn-based cyberpunk stealth game driven around exploration, almost entirely non-lethal moves, and timing through procedural levels. SUPERHOT, the first-person shooter where the world only moves when you do, and creates this stop and start rhythm that lets you pull off all the stylish action movie choreography normal game controls can't. With just local multiplayer fighting games we've gotten Nidhogg, Lethal League, Towerfall and Ivisigun Heroes.
Compared to last gen where AAA games pushed out a good chunk of mid-tier titles, and got bland fast with less genre variety. Instead this gen we have a thriving independent games market, a recovering mid-tier market, publishers funding smaller games, far more genre variety, and that stuff isn't just staying on PC but going to consoles as well.
Even Kojima building himself as an "auteur", chucking his name on everything, and getting associated for games he only acted as a producer on...has been chained to one series for over a decade. The dude said I would pay for my words and deeds with his sexy sniper, then gave the most garbage sci-fi reasoning to excuse it. Kojima likes to talk big, and I don't even trust him to deliver some radical new gameplay concept...especially when all he's shown are some stupid tone-piece trailers with more whales. I just think he'll make something fairly iterative gameplay wise, and have some bonkers cutscenes per usual.
Maybe explore outside big-budget games, there are a host of mid-tier and small indie games to delve in that are new IP, and to stand out have to do something new...or at least combine known ideas together. Offworld Trading Company built an RTS around a player-driven changing market where economy is all you have against competing CEOs. Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons, where you control two characters at the same time, the story is driven by player actions, and mechanics are altered by changes in the story. Invisible Inc., the turn-based cyberpunk stealth game driven around exploration, almost entirely non-lethal moves, and timing through procedural levels. SUPERHOT, the first-person shooter where the world only moves when you do, and creates this stop and start rhythm that lets you pull off all the stylish action movie choreography normal game controls can't. With just local multiplayer fighting games we've gotten Nidhogg, Lethal League, Towerfall and Ivisigun Heroes.
Compared to last gen where AAA games pushed out a good chunk of mid-tier titles, and got bland fast with less genre variety. Instead this gen we have a thriving independent games market, a recovering mid-tier market, publishers funding smaller games, far more genre variety, and that stuff isn't just staying on PC but going to consoles as well.
Nealand Liquor
Member
This generation has been very disappointing for me because there are very few new AAA or ip's that actually push the hardware. This gen has been beyond freaking fantastic from a undy/small developer position but I didn't buy a ps4 to play a more expensive and lesser port of the same retro 8/16 bit games I can (and do) play on my 6 yr old laptop. At this point I could have skipped this gen and missed very, very few subjectivity important console titles than at the same point in the previous generation.
It has just been very disappointing -for me- and a major reason why in the future I will be primarily gaming on my PC, only to pick up a console for exclusives many years into it's life.
Melchiah
Member
Annapurna Interactive being one those, albeit they're American; https://www.giantbomb.com/annapurna-interactive/3010-13747/published/