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[UnemployedVillain]

Please. No matter what political stance GAF might have, they (we?) WORSHIP body and body image. Worship, adore, sacrifice lambs to it, call it whatever you want to .

This is the site where threads regularly get locked down due to conversations being reduced down to one women's gif being reposted 20-30 times with bueno/sweaty gif reactions. Please.

And this site has one of the highest quality community online.
Do you REALLY not think that this is something that exists in real life and is used/presented widely, regularly, in the mainstream?

Lets drop the pretense and acknowledge that although "perfect" bodies can be achieved, they are quite hard goals to strive for, and we are not optimal machines striving for perfection in every moment of our lives. People have different priorities, for some, passing an exam is more important than maintaining healthy diet and regular exercise. Or taking care of family members, kids, etc. Or dealing with preexisting conditions. You know, life. And this part does not show up on the billboards and magazine covers everywhere. Only the photoshopped, perfected result.

Lets not act that comic books aint part of the problem. They absolutely are.

I think you're conflating 2 VERY different things. Admiring/idolizing/whatever you want to call it over "hot" bodies, which are typically the athletic types isn't the same as fat shaming. You can like one end of the spectrum and not actively be shitting on the other. Can I see how that could contribute to someone with a different body type feeling ostracized? Of course, but at the same time saying "I love fit girls" is in no way the same as saying "fat girls are gross", even if the to a person who's "fat" it might hit them the same way

I don't know, I feel that showing all kinds of people being heroic, good, succesful, loved etc. in media can have an effect on how we see groups of people. We definitely shouldn't narrow media just to be about people who are fantasy versions or close fantasies from people we'd like to mate with. Like even Finn Jones who definitely seems like a healthy dude isn't enough for some people as the Iron Fist character.

Someone who spent the last 15 years in a warrior monk monastery shouldn't look like a random skinny dude off the street. It has nothing to do with fat shaming or lack of acceptance of different body types.

THIS is why this thread is so large. We have a segment of people going "This makes no sense. People who are constantly active wouldn't look like that" and other people ignoring the context, and ignoring what's being said and instead interpreting it as fat shaming. You can't rail on comics for having unrealistically "perfect" bodies yet somehow attempt to justify photoshops that are unrealistic given the characters professions and lifestyles. It's hypocritical

 

[Budi]

I'm specifically talking about being shallow. I doubt there is much progress to be made in that regard.

Teaching people to be respectful and keep it to themselves/not hurt others; yes.

I don't know, I feel that showing all kinds of people being heroic, good, succesful, loved etc. in media can have an effect on how we see groups of people. We definitely shouldn't narrow media just to be about people who are fantasy versions or close fantasies from people we'd like to mate with. Like even Finn Jones who definitely seems like a healthy dude isn't enough for some people as the Iron Fist character.

Someone who spent the last 15 years in a warrior monk monastery shouldn't look like a random skinny dude off the street. It has nothing to do with fat shaming or lack of acceptance of different body types.

Why not, how should they look? Martial artists rarely look like Captain America, I could be mistaken. Not that deeply researched into how "warrior monks" look. And if it's really about showing super human strenght and physical capabilities in their body, why don't we demand the same from the women characters? It's only important that they look "sexy". That comes of as dishonest and hypocritical too. Wonder Woman in films has physique more like Iron Fist in the series than Cap and Superman. Thought Wonder Woman has more physical strenght than Iron Fist? We are able to look past that in Wonder Woman, but not in Iron Fist?

Or Hulk compared to She Hulk in comics.

 

[HarryKS]

Losing weight will actually impact your face incredibly. I look 5 years younger when my body fat is gone. Lifting weights can help weight loss.

For reference.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Why not, how should they look? Martial artists rarely look like Captain America, I could be mistaken. Not that deeply researched into how "warrior monks" look. And if it's really about showing super human strenght and physical capabilities in their body, why don't we demand the same from the women characters? It's only important that they look "sexy". That comes of as dishonest and hypocritical too. Wonder Woman in films has physique more like Iron Fist in the series than Cap and Superman. Thought Wonder Woman has more physical strenght than Iron Fist? We are able to look past that in Wonder Woman, but not in Iron Fist?

Or Hulk compared to She Hulk in comics.

They should look muscular. Look at the actor for Daredevil. If Finn Jones looked like him no one would complain. If you honestly think his body reflects that of someone who undergoes physical training everyday, then I don't know what to say.

Also you're seeing what you want to because a LOT of people complained about Gal Gadot looking too skinny. In almost every thread since she was announced as the actress for Wonder Woman.

 

[boiled goose]

Please. No matter what political stance GAF might have, they (we?) WORSHIP body and body image. Worship, adore, sacrifice lambs to it, call it whatever you want to .

This is the site where threads regularly get locked down due to conversations being reduced down to one women's gif being reposted 20-30 times with bueno/sweaty gif reactions. Please.

And this site has one of the highest quality community online.
Do you REALLY not think that this is something that exists in real life and is used/presented widely, regularly, in the mainstream?

Lets drop the pretense and acknowledge that although "perfect" bodies can be achieved, they are quite hard goals to strive for, and we are not optimal machines striving for perfection in every moment of our lives. People have different priorities, for some, passing an exam is more important than maintaining healthy diet and regular exercise. Or taking care of family members, kids, etc. Or dealing with preexisting conditions. You know, life. And this part does not show up on the billboards and magazine covers everywhere. Only the photoshopped, perfected result.

Lets not act that comic books aint part of the problem. They absolutely are.

Lots of messy thoughts here.

Do overly idealized body images create issues? Yes.

In most cases, the standard of beauty is a far cry from "perfect". Being generally fit and healthy is more than enough for most people and potential partners.

Getting to that level is not difficult at all. It's mostly just a small lifestyle adjustment.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Glad to hear and my intention wasn't to stereotype gym goers, but there has been cases when pictures from a gym have been shared online with accompanying insults for example.

Online is a different beast all together but the actual gym where you actually do the working out will not bug you if you are big.

Not every gym goer is a decent person.

Yeah but what are you gonna do? As long as they dont bug you at the gym what more do you want?

I also clarified that online behaviour towards people who are overweight carries with them even outside the internet. I applaud people being supportive rather than mean, it's the right way to go. I was only talking about the harmful actions and words from people towards overweight people, at the gym or not. It's easy to remember that one person who shamed you rather than the 5 who were being supportive. Especially when you see the difference how people behave when they aren't confronting you directly face to face but are using the shroud of anonymity. Attitude like you shouldn't dress sexy, shouldn't dance, shouldn't go for a swim if you are overweight because for some reason the look of it bothers people is real.

Sure. I only take issue with the idea people at the gym are treating members like shit. Outside world is different but we literally can't do anything about it besides be positive. Getting into internet shouting matches doesn't do anything which is why I don't get this criticism.

 

[Budi]

Also you're seeing what you want to because a LOT of people complained about Gal Gadot looking too skinny. In almost every thread since she was announced as the actress for Wonder Woman.

Hmm maybe, as I already said I'm not that invested in comic books nor the comic book discussion. I thought the worry about Gadot was about her acting chops. Are many people really saying that Wonder Woman should rather look like this than Gal Gadot?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Hmm maybe, as I already said I'm not that invested in comic books nor the comic book discussion. Are many people really saying that Wonder Woman should rather look like this than Gal Gadot?

There are different body types you know. Why do these arguments always bounce between extremes? Obviously no one was saying, or expecting an actress to look like a full time body builder, but the vast majority of discussion surrounding her casting had to do with people thinking she was thin (and then there were also comments on her acting ability)

 

[The Greek Freak]

Would it be horrible if overweight people wouldn't be shunned, shamed, mocked and made feel less worthy?

There is a HUGE difference from being shunned/shamed/mocked and being enabled/lied to.

Should cigarette warnings just say "hey guys smoking is great you really don't need to stop but you might want to?"

Also unless you are in some like downtown hollywood gym full of pompous actors or something I doubt the stereotype of "oh no gym people are mean" even exists.

I've been to dozens of gyms in my life, times where I was a fat sack of shit, times where I was in perfect shape. The only time I ever saw any fat or out of shape person get shit was when a fat girl was doing sit ups in the only squat rack and then threw a fit when people asked her to move. Followed by people roasting her when she threw out a bunch of mediocre insults during her hissy fit.

The number of times I've seen a fat or scrawny guy or girl get help? Dozens.

The "gym people are meanies" shit is just one in a long list of excuses of why someone is too lazy.

Edit: Gal Gadot was awesome as Wonder Woman but I would totally be into a version of Wonder Woman that was ripped and enormous instead of skinny with magical strength.

 

[Budi]

There are different body types you know. Why do these arguments always bounce between extremes? Obviously no one was saying, or expecting an actress to look like a full time body builder, but the vast majority of discussion surrounding her casting had to do with people thinking she was thin (and then there were also comments on her acting ability)

Yes there are different body types, but the comic book heroes don't do very good job in portraying the wide variety of them. And you were just saying that Iron Fist is supposed to look like someone who spent 15 years in warrior monastey training, but Wonder Woman isn't supposed to look like someone who can lift a bus? What is your personal view on this? So we don't get confused with who said what and where.

There is a HUGE difference from being shunned/shamed/mocked and being enabled/lied to.

Should cigarette warnings just say "hey guys smoking is great you really don't need to stop but you might want to?"

No, where did you get that from? It's always good to educate people in healthy diets and effective exercises, but it's never okay to shame/mock someone for how they look to you or if you find them physically attractive or not.

 

[Sunster]

like, there's some middle ground between comics giving heroes the same 6 pack and arms the size of tree trunks / same hourglass figure + boob size and shape and just making everyone fat.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

As a side note, I always found super skinny heroes really weird. You're trying to save the world doing extremely dangerous shit. How are you not gonna train your body at all? People are talking about more realistic bodies for heroes but like, I expect these guys to look like Goku and train like that too frankly.

I guess if you have a secret identity . . . But still.

 

[LegendX48]

That's not at all what they would look like though. They'd look like modern day top athletes, minimum.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Yes there are different body types, but the comic book heroes don't do very good job in portraying the wide variety of them. And you were just saying that Iron Fist is supposed to look like someone who spent 15 years in warrior monastey training, but Wonder Woman isn't supposed to look like someone who can lift a bus? What is your personal view on this? So we don't get confused with who said what and where.

Wonder Woman is magical gifted with strength and not even really human, whereas the Iron Fist is a human gifted with magical abilities. I'm not sure where you're going with this

 

[Budi]

Wonder Woman is magical gifted with strength and not even really human, whereas the Iron Fist is a human gifted with magical abilities. I'm not sure where you're going with this

Yeah exactly, I was arguing the same about Storm and Superman on earlier page, didn't get much support. Superman doesn't need to be really muscular to lift things and punch hard. Storm doesn't need to be fit to control weather and fly. Not every comic book hero uses physical dexterity or strengh they have worked for to fight crime and evil.

 

[CloudyTuba]

I never agree with why "realistic" body types are so often portrayed as overweight. I mean, maybe if you view the american obesity epidemic as your baseline for realistic. I agree that the media frequently portrays absurd unrealistic precedents, but that's not an excuse to glorify unhealthy lifestyles either. Just strikes me as coddling at that point when you're photoshopping a beer gut onto spider-man in spite of his whole thing being basically an amazing gymnast.

Realistically most of the human heroes should be based on the bodies of respectable athletes of various professions because their lives are very athletic. Then there are the super humans who basically have a free excuse to look unrealistic because they're not naturally occurring. Some of them got their muscles from very unrealistic sources. That's not to say that comics are always responsible about it (because they're not), but at the very least most of them have a good job-related reason to stay in shape.

Spider-man is my favorite superhero. I will probably never look like spider-man. That is okay. I didn't get bitten by a radioactive spider that gave me a 6 pack and I still wear glasses. I don't expect to look like Spider-man, and I know if I want a 6 pack I have to make it happen. That doesn't mean I want to see Spider-man paunch-slapping the Lizard in next week's issue. Don't coddle me. If I wanted to see The Adventures of Sedentary-Man and his Love of Carbs, I'd put up a bunch of mirrors.

 

[TheChuggernaut]

Exactly. Don't go by the silly stereotypes you see in movies and tv. The gym is one of the most supportive and helpful places you'll find if you're trying to lose weight.

I agree with this. I've been called a fatty while jogging near my apartment once. I live near some bars that are close to campus so dude probably had some alcohol in his system, to be fair. I've never felt unwelcome in a gym though. Everyone is either encouraging or busy with their own shit.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Yeah exactly, I was arguing the same about Storm and Superman on earlier page, didn't get much support. Superman doesn't need to be really muscular to lift things and punch hard. Storm doesn't need to be fit to control weather and fly. Not every comic book hero uses physical dexterity or strengh they have worked for to fight crime and evil.

Honestly, regardless of what your super powers, if you're fighting crime, it's probably a smart idea to be fit. In the world of super heroes, there's some bullshit scenario where they can't always rely on their powers.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Humans have been progressing on their acceptance of other people and in taking others in consideration, we shouldn't stop now. Thicker skin isn't the best solution, it's just accepting it without things changing for the better. But ofcourse it's better to brush off offensive behaviour by others rather than dwell on it and letting it affect you, but it's not something we should demand when the victim isn't the problem. It's not an easy task to everyone.

While this is more or less true, usually this mentality is limited to accepting people with issues that aren't clearly negative.

It's way better that the world is accepting of things like race, homosexuality and gender differences, because ultimately being those things hurts no one. Even the people who belong to that group.

Society generally isn't, and shouldn't be very accepting towards things that damage society. Being accepting of people being over weight is overall, a negative to society, because it normalizes something clearly bad for the human race. Just think about people who smoke cigarettes. We, as a society, are not accepting of smokers at all. We ban the act from many places, you're allowed to openly mock them, and every time you turn on the TV you'll probably run into a graphic commercial about how smoking can ruin your health.

Being overweight, for some odd reason, is one of the only negative traits that our society seeks to normalize and be accepting of. Now obviously, we shouldn't go around insulting people for being fat. Thats not going to do anyone any good. But this is a situation where we very clearly should not be letting something get normalized just to spare the feelings of those it's already effecting.

 

[Unbounded]

Please. No matter what political stance GAF might have, they (we?) WORSHIP body and body image. Worship, adore, sacrifice lambs to it, call it whatever you want to .

This is the site where threads regularly get locked down due to conversations being reduced down to one women's gif being reposted 20-30 times with bueno/sweaty gif reactions. Please.

And this site has one of the highest quality community online.
Do you REALLY not think that this is something that exists in real life and is used/presented widely, regularly, in the mainstream?

Lemme stop you right there.

Hmm maybe, as I already said I'm not that invested in comic books nor the comic book discussion. I thought the worry about Gadot was about her acting chops. Are many people really saying that Wonder Woman should rather look like this than Gal Gadot?

There's levels of fitness between "Gal Gadot" and "The Incredible Hulk".

Mind you, while I like my WW to lean more toward the "She can snap most people like a twig" physique, there's nothing wrong with her just being somewhere in the middle.

 

[Budi]

While this is more or less true, usually this mentality is limited to accepting people with issues that aren't clearly negative.

It's way better that the world is accepting of things like race, homosexuality and gender differences, because ultimately being those things hurts no one. Even the people who belong to that group.

Society generally isn't, and shouldn't be very accepting towards things that damage society. Being accepting of people being over weight is overall, a negative to society, because it normalizes something clearly bad for the human race. Just think about people who smoke cigarettes. We, as a society, are not accepting of smokers at all. We ban the act from many places, you're allowed to openly mock them, and every time you turn on the TV you'll probably run into a graphic commercial about how smoking can ruin your health.

Being overweight, for some odd reason, is one of the only negative traits that our society seeks to normalize and be accepting of. Now obviously, we shouldn't go around insulting people for being fat. Thats not going to do anyone any good. But this is a situation where we very clearly should not be letting something get normalized just to spare the feelings of those it's already effecting.

Sure, this all sounds correct. But I'd still argue that there is a difference in accepting, appreciating and respecting someone even when they aren't in healthy shape. That doesn't mean we are encouraging people to get fat, we can still strive for healthy lifestyle and professionals can and should give guidance to people on how to improve their quality of life. But as you said being insulting or mean isn't making anyone's situation better. We can't dehumanize these people and treat them as something without feelings and worth. It can easily just spiral people out of control when they feel that society isn't accepting of them, it can bring anxiety, depression, other kinds of self-harm than being overweight. Especially on kids or people with mental health issues. Many people just see the fat around that person, not who they are and where they come from. If you find someone to look repulsive, keep that information to yourself. If you are worried about someone close to you being unhealthy, talk with them and try to support them to get in better shape. And only showing and highlightning the body building shape as something to strive for men as an example rather than just being average healthy fit raises the bar unnecesarily high. When you are dangerously obese, dropping weight is more important than bulking up.

Lemme stop you right there.



There's levels of fitness between "Gal Gadot" and "The Incredible Hulk".

Mind you, while I like my WW to lean more toward the "She can snap most people like a twig" physique, there's nothing wrong with her just being somewhere in the middle.

Yeah, but we don't have much of variety in womens physique in super hero media while we do in real life and it's more diverse for men too. We have very muscular men in droves, but we don't have very muscular women. And I'm not in anyway trying to say what these actors should look like, they can come in all shapes and sizes. I just think that there is a double standard on how people at large expect their super hero men to look compared to women. Though both requirements are very high.

 

[Oblivion]

Show yourself, you must be model material.

But I never said I was a model. Are you saying that only beautiful people should be allowed to be attracted to and desire other beautiful people?

 

[Boss Doggie]

Would it be horrible if overweight people wouldn't be shunned, shamed, mocked and made feel less worthy? Being obese isn't healthy (everyone knows this), it's always good to keep in mind and people should aim for healthy lifestyle in all ways. These changes are easier to do when you don't feel like an outcast, depressed or insecure. Overweight people going to gyms and exercise get laughed at. Go for a swim for example and hear the snickering from people for how you look, even when you are doing something considered healthy. In worst cases it's not just snickering but straight up people shouting nasty things at you. And I think it's well researched that media setting too high bars in the beauty standards can be harmful in many ways. Also the perception on people what is considered to be fit/healthy and unfit/unhealthy is sometimes really skewed.
They don't work out to be superheroes, they have superpowers. Not every hero in comics, games and movies uses physical strenght or agility to fight crime. And you said it yourself, they are not real. What sense does it make to shoot lasers from your eyes?

Thing is, this isn't helping overweight or obese people. There's a difference between helping them vs. indulging their bad behavior. Also from my experience in my visits to gym, when they see overweight people there most murmurs I hear are people praising the person for wanting to lose weight.

Also you did say you don't know much about comics, but lemme help you out. That comparison was Arrow - he doesn't have super strength, so he works out just fine with gym stuff. Superman does work out - he doesn't use conventional things though. Like he has a heavier weight that would probably crush a normal person.

Storm and the like do experience physical strain too, since she does physical combat on occasion, and her flight is more of being carried by the wind rather than "fly".

 

[Staccat0]

But I never said I was a model. Are you saying that only beautiful people should be allowed to be attracted to and desire other beautiful people?

Are you saying you can only enjoy art that features people you "desire?"

 

[Oblivion]

Are you saying you can only enjoy art that features people you "desire?"

Of course not. But there's no reason why we should encourage such a thing if there's no legitimate reason to do so.

 

[daviyoung]

Of course not. But there's no reason why we should encourage such a thing if there's no legitimate reason to do so.

Do you send producers and directors specifications so they can make sure they hire people you find attractive?

 

[Rktk]

Surely the people of Krypton would rather be left out of this chubby hero fetish.

 

[HarryKS]

Do you send producers and directors specifications so they can make sure they hire people you find attractive?

If it were an option, people would eat it up.

Human nature.

 

[daviyoung]

If it were an option, people would eat it up.

Human nature.

Well yes, like having a chef prepare you any meal you want at any time of day anywhere. Or being able to fly like Superman to wherever your destination is. Or a thousand other things that aren't possible.

 

[Freshmaker]

Australian actor Nathan Jones is probably one of those people coming closest to the look of a superhero

Spoiler

or supervillain

.

His superpower is tearing muscles faster than Kevin Nash.

 

[Victarion]

So realistic means bigger? I guess I have an unrealistic body cause I'm too skinny.

 

[zoukka]

Realistic or not, it would be at least more interesting to see varied body shapes on those characters. Like why does every superhero need to have 1% body fat, that Black Panther with a gut would still fuck up people :b

 

[gaugebozo]

So realistic means bigger? I guess I have an unrealistic body cause I'm too skinny.

This is something that annoys me about this topic. When I was fat, I got shit from everywhere about it. When I made some small life adjustments and became thin, people were telling me I was wasting away, despite having a normal BMI.

Larger is not the only reasonable body type, and neither is skinny.

 

[Circinus]

'Realistic' is a weird word choice here imho. Seems more like they mean 'average' (or near the average) or more or less representative of average.

 

[Crankshaft]

'Realistic' is a weird word choice here imho. Seems more like they mean 'average' (or near the average) or more or less representative of average.

Should be "what superheroes would look like if they weren't superheroes"

 

[spelen]

Realistic bodies in the US maybe but in EU ppl are closer to the ideal body type

 

[Bleepey]

you *really* don't wanna incentivize that behaviour. Same reason why there should never be an oscar for Most Awesome-Looking Stunt With Practical Effects.

I find it shocking that the Academy refuses to reward people who have risked their life for Hollywood. There should at least be a best set piece or stunt award.

 

[Vicetrailia]

My body type is not realistic huh?