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Tim Wise: 'Imagine if the Tea Party was Black' (yet another TP thread, apologies)

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Written almost a year ago. Loosely related to the other thread on the question of white oppression. Some interesting points

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Let’s play a game, shall we? The name of the game is called “Imagine.” The way it’s played is simple: we’ll envision recent happenings in the news, but then change them up a bit. Instead of envisioning white people as the main actors in the scenes we’ll conjure - the ones who are driving the action - we’ll envision black folks or other people of color instead. The object of the game is to imagine the public reaction to the events or incidents, if the main actors were of color, rather than white. Whoever gains the most insight into the workings of race in America, at the end of the game, wins.

So let’s begin.

Imagine that hundreds of black protesters were to descend upon Washington DC and Northern Virginia, just a few miles from the Capitol and White House, armed with AK-47s, assorted handguns, and ammunition. And imagine that some of these protesters —the black protesters — spoke of the need for political revolution, and possibly even armed conflict in the event that laws they didn’t like were enforced by the government? Would these protester — these black protesters with guns — be seen as brave defenders of the Second Amendment, or would they be viewed by most whites as a danger to the republic? What if they were Arab-Americans? Because, after all, that’s what happened recently when white gun enthusiasts descended upon the nation’s capital, arms in hand, and verbally announced their readiness to make war on the country’s political leaders if the need arose.

Imagine that white members of Congress, while walking to work, were surrounded by thousands of angry black people, one of whom proceeded to spit on one of those congressmen for not voting the way the black demonstrators desired. Would the protesters be seen as merely patriotic Americans voicing their opinions, or as an angry, potentially violent, and even insurrectionary mob? After all, this is what white Tea Party protesters did recently in Washington.

Imagine that a rap artist were to say, in reference to a white president: “He’s a piece of $hit and I told him to suck on my machine gun.” Because that’s what rocker Ted Nugent said recently about President Obama.

Imagine that a prominent mainstream black political commentator had long employed an overt bigot as Executive Director of his organization, and that this bigot regularly participated in black separatist conferences, and once assaulted a white person while calling them by a racial slur. When that prominent black commentator and his sister — who also works for the organization — defended the bigot as a good guy who was misunderstood and “going through a tough time in his life” would anyone accept their excuse-making? Would that commentator still have a place on a mainstream network? Because that’s what happened in the real world, when Pat Buchanan employed as Executive Director of his group, America’s Cause, a blatant racist who did all these things, or at least their white equivalents: attending white separatist conferences and attacking a black woman while calling her the n-word.

Imagine that a black radio host were to suggest that the only way to get promoted in the administration of a white president is by “hating black people,” or that a prominent white person had only endorsed a white presidential candidate as an act of racial bonding, or blamed a white president for a fight on a school bus in which a black kid was jumped by two white kids, or said that he wouldn’t want to kill all conservatives, but rather, would like to leave just enough—“living fossils” as he called them—“so we will never forget what these people stood for.” After all, these are things that Rush Limbaugh has said, about Barack Obama’s administration, Colin Powell’s endorsement of Barack Obama, a fight on a school bus in Belleville, Illinois in which two black kids beat up a white kid, and about liberals, generally.

Imagine that a black pastor, formerly a member of the U.S. military, were to declare, as part of his opposition to a white president’s policies, that he was ready to “suit up, get my gun, go to Washington, and do what they trained me to do.” This is, after all, what Pastor Stan Craig said recently at a Tea Party rally in Greenville, South Carolina.

Imagine a black radio talk show host gleefully predicting a revolution by people of color if the government continues to be dominated by the rich white men who have been “destroying” the country, or if said radio personality were to call Christians or Jews non-humans, or say that when it came to conservatives, the best solution would be to “hang ‘em high.” And what would happen to any congressional representative who praised that commentator for “speaking common sense” and likened his hate talk to “American values?” After all, those are among the things said by radio host and best-selling author Michael Savage, predicting white revolution in the face of multiculturalism, or said by Savage about Muslims and liberals, respectively. And it was Congressman Culbertson, from Texas, who praised Savage in that way, despite his hateful rhetoric.

Imagine a black political commentator suggesting that the only thing the guy who flew his plane into the Austin, Texas IRS building did wrong was not blowing up Fox News instead. This is, after all, what Anne Coulter said about Tim McVeigh, when she noted that his only mistake was not blowing up the New York Times.

Imagine that a popular black liberal website posted comments about the daughter of a white president, calling her “typical redneck trash,” or a “whore” whose mother entertains her by “making monkey sounds.” After all that’s comparable to what conservatives posted about Malia Obama on freerepublic.com last year, when they referred to her as “ghetto trash.”

Imagine that black protesters at a large political rally were walking around with signs calling for the lynching of their congressional enemies. Because that’s what white conservatives did last year, in reference to Democratic party leaders in Congress.

In other words, imagine that even one-third of the anger and vitriol currently being hurled at President Obama, by folks who are almost exclusively white, were being aimed, instead, at a white president, by people of color. How many whites viewing the anger, the hatred, the contempt for that white president would then wax eloquent about free speech, and the glories of democracy? And how many would be calling for further crackdowns on thuggish behavior, and investigations into the radical agendas of those same people of color?

To ask any of these questions is to answer them. Protest is only seen as fundamentally American when those who have long had the luxury of seeing themselves as prototypically American engage in it. When the dangerous and dark “other” does so, however, it isn’t viewed as normal or natural, let alone patriotic. Which is why Rush Limbaugh could say, this past week, that the Tea Parties are the first time since the Civil War that ordinary, common Americans stood up for their rights: a statement that erases the normalcy and “American-ness” of blacks in the civil rights struggle, not to mention women in the fight for suffrage and equality, working people in the fight for better working conditions, and LGBT folks as they struggle to be treated as full and equal human beings.

And this, my friends, is what white privilege is all about. The ability to threaten others, to engage in violent and incendiary rhetoric without consequence, to be viewed as patriotic and normal no matter what you do, and never to be feared and despised as people of color would be, if they tried to get away with half the mess we do, on a daily basis..
 
We barely even have to imagine: just look at how conservatives have covered the protests in Wisconsin.

The tea party is fawned over in the media, its extremism and violent rhetoric overlooked or outright ignored. You can bet your ass things would be different if these were large crowds of black, Hispanic, or Muslims.

I don't believe the tea party is racist overall, but in many ways it's a nativist response to multi-culturalism, and this president who defines it in his very existence. They can claim they were upset about "out of control" spending all along, but the fact remains they didn't pull out guns and start marching until Obama showed up. Personally I think they'd exist if Hillary Clinton was president instead, and it shows this is a group of people who feel spending is wasteful when there's a chance it's going to unworthy people, ie minorities. That's really what all this nonsense is about in respect to the health care bill for instance.
 
And this, my friends, is what white privilege is all about. The ability to threaten others, to engage in violent and incendiary rhetoric without consequence, to be viewed as patriotic and normal no matter what you do, and never to be feared and despised as people of color would be, if they tried to get away with half the mess we do, on a daily basis..

It's so true its frightening
 

DominoKid

Member
1194021319.jpg


(Tim Wise is a clever mofo)
 

Chichikov

Member
Tim Wise is quite awesome.
You should check out his books, he can get a bit pedantic in his arguments, but he speaks about race in clarity, directness and not to mention truth that is uncommon in this country's discourse.
 

itxaka

Defeatist
And this, my friends, is what white privilege is all about. The ability to threaten others, to engage in violent and incendiary rhetoric without consequence, to be viewed as patriotic and normal no matter what you do, and never to be feared and despised as people of color would be, if they tried to get away with half the mess we do, on a daily basis..

I thought that was what rap/hip hop was about. And it's not like there is hundreds of white gusy in that world.
 

Chichikov

Member
PhoenixDark said:
We barely even have to imagine: just look at how conservatives have covered the protests in Wisconsin.

The tea party is fawned over in the media, its extremism and violent rhetoric overlooked or outright ignored. You can bet your ass things would be different if these were large crowds of black, Hispanic, or Muslims.
But note that it didn't stick in Wisconsin, where the protesters were mostly white.

If you still doubt it, consider the reaction to the "ground zero masque", a case that is ten times more open and shut than the Walkermegeddon; seriously, you can argue against public sector unions, I can understand that position, but Park51?


OuterWorldVoice said:
What were you just reading?
Smart money is on Atlas Shrugged.
 
In other words, imagine that even one-third of the anger and vitriol currently being hurled at President Obama, by folks who are almost exclusively white, were being aimed, instead, at a white president, by people of color. How many whites viewing the anger, the hatred, the contempt for that white president would then wax eloquent about free speech, and the glories of democracy? And how many would be calling for further crackdowns on thuggish behavior, and investigations into the radical agendas of those same people of color?

I don't think we even have to 'imagine it', we have cases to compare and contrast with! How many viewed the Panthers as upholders of the foundations of the constitution lol.
 
Chichikov said:
But note that it didn't stick in Wisconsin, where the protesters were mostly white.

If you still doubt it, consider the reaction to the "ground zero masque", a case that is ten times more open and shut than the Walkermegeddon; seriously, you can argue against public sector unions, I can understand that position, but Park51?

I agree with you/the article, yea. Was just pointing out considering the negative reaction the Wisconsin protests are getting, the reaction to black people in similar positions would be significantly worse.

The Black Panthers are still vilified to this day, despite them not carrying out violent acts as a group. California tried to ban the public display of firearms in direct response to the Black Panthers. Today, Obama can't even touch the gun control issue without the right going insane.
 
The Arab American thought experiment is more interesting to me. Imagine if in addition to all that they demanded the government obey Islamic customs and sharia law the way some of these social conservatives demand we obey some obscure verse in the bible.
 

Chinner

Banned
for anybody is unfamiliar with tim wise, i really suggest that you read his stuff. he's intelligent and you can tell that he's really passionate about these issues.

also, smugface, i have him on facebook!
 

jorma

is now taking requests
Personally, I imagine i would look upon those people in pretty much the same way i currently look upon the teaparty. No, i'd view them slightly more favourably because it is much more likely that they'd at least have some sort of case.

But yeah, they'd be called "terrorist" as opposed to "patriot" in msm.
 

abcderik

Neo Member
Tim "mr. Generalize" Wise said:
Protest is only seen as fundamentally American when those who have long had the luxury of seeing themselves as prototypically American engage in it..

So who the hell is this guy speaking on behalf of? Is he insinuating that most whites are ok with the examples mentioned in his article?
 

SmokyDave

Member
I think that maybe he's overlooking the amount of white people that already think the Tea Party are a bunch of retarded potential terrorists, but apart from that, very interesting article.
 

Dennis

Banned
Meus Renaissance said:
And this, my friends, is what white privilege is all about. The ability to threaten others, to engage in violent and incendiary rhetoric without consequence, to be viewed as patriotic and normal no matter what you do, and never to be feared and despised as people of color would be, if they tried to get away with half the mess we do, on a daily basis..
Eh, pretty sure White Supremacists are just about the most reviled people in America and with the FBI etc keeping a close watch and prosecuting whenever possible.

Tim Wise is being very disengenious. The idea that whites have a free pass to commit violence is a flat out lie.

If what Tim Wise says about white people were said about black people he would be accused of hate speech.
 

justjohn

Member
I sort of agree with him. But he is also forgetting that whites are a overwhemingly majority demographic in this country. Therefore they do get a pass as well as individuality.
 

jorma

is now taking requests
Chinner said:
lets do a thought experiment; what would happen if smokeydave was black?

His head smashed in and his heart cut out and his liver removed and his bowels unplugged and his nostrils raped and his bottom burned off and his penis...
 

2San

Member
DennisK4 said:
Tim Wise is being very disengenious. The idea that whites have a free pass to commit violence is a flat out lie.
Yeah, but saying that whites don't get away with more is pretty ignorant. There are multiple studies where it shows that people of color get a way higher punishment.
 

Dennis

Banned
2San said:
Yeah, but denying that whites(ugh dislike using this word) don't get away with more is pretty ignorant. There are multiple studies where it shows that people of color get a way higher punishment.
I care that Tim Wise presents a straight up hateful lie: that white people have a license to commit violence.

His hate speech is nauseating.
 

Realyst

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
The guys amazing, but borderline antiwhite
I think his growing up in the south and seeing these double standards first-hand (and possibly white guilt) has caused him to come off as such.
 

2San

Member
DennisK4 said:
I care that Tim Wise presents a straight up hateful lie: that white people have a license to commit violence.

His hate speech is nauseating.
Yeah, I agree with that. Thinking in extremes makes it easier for the masses to digest though.
 
I'm not playing favorites here but wasn't there "racist rhetoric" and hateful comparisons being aimed at Bush. People called for revolution etc etc. I'm not sure he accounts the for demographic as well
 

Realyst

Member
spiderman123 said:
I'm not playing favorites here but wasn't there "racist rhetoric" and hateful comparisons being aimed at Bush. People called for revolution etc etc. I'm not sure he accounts the for demographic as well
Nowhere near this level, though. With bush you had the Hitler/Nazi comparisons, yes. But did you see prominent politicians also use the same hateful, violent rhetoric that we are seeing with the Tea Party? Did you see protesters with loaded weapons present at the rallies? There's almost no comparison.
 

Marleyman

Banned
jorma said:
Personally, I imagine i would look upon those people in pretty much the same way i currently look upon the teaparty. No, i'd view them slightly more favourably because it is much more likely that they'd at least have some sort of case.

But yeah, they'd be called "terrorist" as opposed to "patriot" in msm.

Great post - sums up how I feel about the whole situation.
 

Realyst

Member
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
That article is filled with so much hyperbole that it's impossible to take this clown seriously.

Nothing but a race baiter, imo.
What are you talking about? He drew direct comparisons from events that actually happened. Sometimes Fact is stranger than Fiction.
 

Dabanton

Member
itxaka said:
I thought that was what rap/hip hop was about. And it's not like there is hundreds of white gusy in that world.

Rap is now entertainment nothing more nothing less.

The only incendiary thing any of these guys will say is that there going to shoot a fellow black man for no reason.

And who cares about that? certainly not their record labels who make millions from them.
 
DennisK4 said:
I care that Tim Wise presents a straight up hateful lie: that white people have a license to commit violence.

His hate speech is nauseating.
If you think that's bad, wait until you see real hate speech.
 
People who probably believe that 'reverse racism' and 'misandry' and 'heterophobia' are real things that actually exist ITT.
 

JoeBoy101

Member
Article is retarded. Why?

Imagine that white members of Congress, while walking to work, were surrounded by thousands of angry black people, one of whom proceeded to spit on one of those congressmen for not voting the way the black demonstrators desired. Would the protesters be seen as merely patriotic Americans voicing their opinions, or as an angry, potentially violent, and even insurrectionary mob? After all, this is what white Tea Party protesters did recently in Washington.

Last I fucking checked, there is a large contingent of people who see this exact view of the Tea Party.

When that prominent black commentator and his sister — who also works for the organization — defended the bigot as a good guy who was misunderstood and “going through a tough time in his life” would anyone accept their excuse-making? Would that commentator still have a place on a mainstream network? Because that’s what happened in the real world, when Pat Buchanan employed as Executive Director of his group, America’s Cause, a blatant racist who did all these things, or at least their white equivalents: attending white separatist conferences and attacking a black woman while calling her the n-word.

Last I fucking checked, Pat Buchanan considered as prominent is laughable. By what measure? Because he's on TV?

Imagine that a rap artist were to say, in reference to a white president: “He’s a piece of $hit and I told him to suck on my machine gun.” Because that’s what rocker Ted Nugent said recently about President Obama.

Ted Nugent? He's getting worked up over what Ted Nugent is saying? What would the rap equivalent be for Ted Nugent? Snoop? (Honestly, I'm curious as I don't listen to rap and hip-hop. Who would be the rap equivalent to Ted Nugent?)

Imagine that a popular black liberal website posted comments about the daughter of a white president, calling her “typical redneck trash,” or a “whore” whose mother entertains her by “making monkey sounds.” After all that’s comparable to what conservatives posted about Malia Obama on freerepublic.com last year, when they referred to her as “ghetto trash.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/

Imagine that black protesters at a large political rally were walking around with signs calling for the lynching of their congressional enemies. Because that’s what white conservatives did last year, in reference to Democratic party leaders in Congress.

Apparently someone slept through the earlier part of the 2000's. Though I will say those war protests were pretty neutral with they're racial demographics...much like the Tea Party.

Realyst said:
What are you talking about? He drew direct comparisons from events that actually happened. Sometimes Fact is stranger than Fiction.

What Fact are you referring to? The ENTIRE article is a hypothetical. The only way you think its fact is if you assume everything about how white people would act. And guess what, then you're assuming how they would act because of their race. Funny that.
 
Chinner said:
lets do a thought experiment; what would happen if smokeydave was black?
It would be the only thing to remove that smug look off his face :)


DennisK4 said:
I care that Tim Wise presents a straight up hateful lie: that white people have a license to commit violence.

His hate speech is nauseating.
White kids riot and destroy thousands of dollars in property after sports events every single year with very little reaction from the police.
 

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
Sometimes I wish I lived in the racist parts of the US, just to see what it's like. I've experienced very little racism in my life.
 

JoeBoy101

Member
Kinitari said:
Sometimes I wish I lived in the racist parts of the US, just to see what it's like. I've experienced very little racism in my life.

Depends on what kind you want. Here in the South is subtle but deep. It'll come with smiles and courtesy.

In the North, its not as deep, but way more in your face. You'll notice it easily.
 

Ephemeris

Member
Kinitari said:
Sometimes I wish I lived in the racist parts of the US, just to see what it's like. I've experienced very little racism in my life.
Just use your imagination instead. :p
SmokyDave said:
You think giving me rhythm and a bigger cock would make me less smug?

Huh. Fancy that.
:lol
 

Realyst

Member
JoeBoy101 said:
Depends on what kind you want. Here in the South is subtle but deep. It'll come with smiles and courtesy.

In the North, its not as deep, but way more in your face. You'll notice it easily.
Eh, kinda depends. In the South, it could be either passive or more direct. It really depends where you are down here, as there are still some places where bigotry is not considered taboo.
 
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