Support NeoGAF

[scoobs]

Not to troll but I'm having a hard time seeing the combat as being very fun.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Here are more that were just posted:
Equipment and Runes Walkthrough HD

I drooled, and then ate some cookies just so I could drool some more. Just so god damned appealing. OCDs Nutz.

 

[Lykathea]

"What cutscenes are you watching? In the "Sacrifice" scene on Gametrailers I count 19-20 edits in a 1:45 scene. That is a cut every 5 seconds.

The Freyja cutscene is about the same. 18 cuts in less than 2 minutes. Every conversation is angle-reverse angle cuts, so they are cutting in moments when they could just as easily pull the camera back and show you two people talking instead of alternately cutting to close-ups of each character talking. I can't find a take that goes on for more than 15-20 seconds. Less Shakespeare and more Michael Bay 2: Electric Boogaloo."

I am not saying there is no cutting in the cinematics, there is some, obviously. Rather, what I am arguing is that in general there is far less of a reliance on cutting than the typical Hollywood fare. Just take a look at lots of the shots in scene showing the ship landing in the frozen tundra, the camera movement is extremely dynamic and utilizes long takes far more than what is the norm. Also you fail to realize that that is an extremely low number of takes when one is generally speaking about the continuity aesthetic of Hollywood. For instance, the shot reverse shot you refer to in the Freyja cut scene is utilized only a few times and accounts for the vast majority of cuts in the scene. If a prototypical Hollywood director handled this same scene there would have been far more cutting up of the action through constructive and contiguity editing.

BTW it is not just me pulling this out of my ass--as you seem to presume--SK has elaborated on precisely this point in the blog titled 'A Realist Approach'. I am too lazy to look it up right now but feel free to do so to see what I am talking about.

 

[golem]

Not to troll but I'm having a hard time seeing the combat as being very fun.

for me action rpgs are more about customizing your character/skills/items and unleashing upon enemies. the combat animations could be better, yeah, but i think as long as the mechanics behind combat are good, it will be appealing

 

[Sviatoslav]

This one:
Prologue Cam HD

I mean, lets not fool ourselves, there are way too many camera changes in that scene to be real time. The UE3 struggles with every camera change, and thus the texture pop-up happens. If that is realtime, then Dyack am GOD confirmed.

edit: Also, that monster better be a boss.

well good thing its not UE3 then.

 

[Lykathea]

"Not to troll but I'm having a hard time seeing the combat as being very fun."


I think it is difficult to tell how fun a game will be until you get your hands on it, no matter what the game is. In the case of TH this is only exacerbated because it utilizes a control scheme far removed from the norm for the action in this type of game.

If I were to venture a guess I would say the fun of the combat comes through in its slight depth (juggling, sliding, combos) coupled with the different feel that the combat takes on depending on the class, weapon or whether you are playing single player or co-op moreso than the combat itself. Don't get me wrong, to me TH has nailed the basic look of stylish twitch combat complete with screen clearing epic moves but I think the fun of the combat will be aided in large part by the deep RPG aspects.

 

[border]

For instance, the shot reverse shot you refer to in the Freyja cut scene is utilized only a few times and accounts for the vast majority of cuts in the scene. If a prototypical Hollywood director handled this same scene there would have been far more cutting up of the action through constructive and contiguity editing.

Except shot-reverse shot is used for basically all dialogue in the Freyja scene, the Sacrifice scene, and the extended prologue (which has roughly 80 cuts over 9 minutes). Action scenes are full of cuts as well. The only take that remotely struck me was the long tracking shot in the prologue scene, where the camera flies through the bar and focuses on the 2 commoners talking....and even that take was like 35-40 seconds. That part reminded me more of Goodfellas than anything else.

SK has elaborated on precisely this point in the blog titled 'A Realist Approach'. I am too lazy to look it up right now but feel free to do so to see what I am talking about.

They can blog about it if they want, I'm just not seeing that attitude reflected in the game's design or cutscenes, as of this moment. The musclebound hunks and cyber skanks that populate the game seem to go against Bazin's use of "non-actors" and even slow dialogue scenes are full of edits when they don't have to be.

 

[scoobs]

I'm also questioning the enemy design choice... and the animation system is a bit robotic. Otherwise if its like WoW it will surely be fun. Prob not buying this one, but it could be worth a rent for me.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I'm also questioning the enemy design choice... and the animation system is a bit robotic. Otherwise if its like WoW it will surely be fun.

The "Quests" that lead to status bonuses with the runes give it basically like 8,000 achievements.

Which is fucking awesome.

 

[godhandiscen]

well good thing its not UE3 then.

I know, but then, devs should be getting SK's engine instead of the texture pop-up fest that the UE3 is.

 

[pr0cs]

I had to stop watching those movies, ruins too much of the experience.
At this point all I want is a demo to confirm or deny the "fun" aspect of the game. I'm happy with what I've seen of the customization, graphics, story...I just need confirmation now that it's actually a blast to play and I'm sold.
I'm curious why people are in here shitting on the game if they haven't any interest in playing it or don't even own a 360.

 

[brokenFUN]

Anyone notice that the voice actor from Ghost In the Shell who voices the English Togasa does the voice for the main character (whatever his name is) in Too Human. I don't think its the right fit.

 

[master15]

This one:
Prologue Cam HD

I mean, lets not fool ourselves, there are way too many camera changes in that scene to be real time. The UE3 struggles with every camera change, and thus the texture pop-up happens. If that is realtime, then Dyack am GOD confirmed.

edit: Also, that monster better be a boss.

Unfortuntely looks like Denis working with Ryuhei Kitamura has rubbed off with uneeded use of slow-motion.

I plan on being corrected but it looks like in-game assets through pre-rendered video.

 

[fin]

Just take a look at lots of the shots in scene showing the ship landing in the frozen tundra, the camera movement is extremely dynamic and utilizes long takes far more than what is the norm.

That scene stood out for me as well. The camera stays in a single fluid motion as it changes from outside to inside the ship focusing on different characters, dialog, weapons and armor without interruption. (If anyone is complaining about # of cuts/sec they should really be in the MGS 4 thread the Vamp Vs. Raiden scene was ridiculous.)

Anyways, call me impressed. The story already sounds epic, and the multi-player is going to be a hoot. I'm really digging the art direction, seems like a mix between Mass Effect/Gears/Matrix. Although I'm not a big fan of the hammer trolls, seem too blocky compared to the gremlins and the arrow shooting dudes.

Day one for me.

 

[Lykathea]

"Except shot-reverse shot is used for basically all dialogue in the Freyja scene, the Sacrifice scene, and the extended prologue (which has roughly 80 cuts over 9 minutes). Action scenes are full of cuts as well. The only take that remotely struck me was the long tracking shot in the prologue scene, where the camera flies through the bar and focuses on the 2 commoners talking....and even that take was like 35-40 seconds. That part reminded me more of Goodfellas than anything else."

Again, the use of the shot reverse shot does not damn the game away from Bazinian realism. The primary point remains that the long take, deep focus aesthetic is used often throughout the cut scenes shown. Just because the takes don't stand out to you as particularly long a la Goodfellas does not mean that they are not long takes when compared to the norm. To use an older example, you should look at the cutscene with Mimir on IGN from last April where instead of using the shot reverse shot aesthetic they rely on deep focus/rack focus to switch between talking heads. This is not BS, a realist aesthetic is clearly at play in TH's cut scenes.

Furthermore, 15-20 second shots are very long when compared to most contemporary Hollywood fare and by extension, most video game cutscenes. Moreover, if their are truly only roughly 80 cuts in 9 minutes of content (including a 6 minute action scene) that is paltry. To use a comparison I recently analyzed a scene from The 36th Chamber of Shaolin that was about 4 minutes long, which contained 60 cuts. That is nearly the same amount of cuts in over 9 minutes of TH footage. And since Hollywood has adopted much of the rapid cutting aesthetic of Hong Kong cinema it is not a stretch for me to say that my example is useful in discerning the nature of the film form at use in TH. In other words, 80 cuts is nothing in the course of 9 minutes. You yourself even pointed out an especially long take from that scene at 35-40 seconds which is evidence enough that the takes in TH's cinematics are largely based on longer takes than the norm of Hollywood.


"They can blog about it if they want, I'm just not seeing that attitude reflected in the game's design or cutscenes, as of this moment. The musclebound hunks and cyber skanks that populate the game seem to go against Bazin's use of "non-actors" and even slow dialogue scenes are full of edits."

Now you are getting irrelevant. With non-actors Bazin was just contextualizing Italian Neo-Realist films moreso than applying their use of so-called 'non-actors' as a primary tenet of realist filmmaking. Again, just because the edits are not obnoxiously long, does not mean that they are significantly enough longer than the norm. It may appear subtle you at first but this realist aesthetic in general is clearly at play in the construction of the cut scenes.

 

[Scottlarock]

Not to troll but I'm having a hard time seeing the combat as being very fun.

that is the first tell-tell signs of a troll. Not that you are, but 95% of the time if someone posts thats, thats exactly what they are doing.

 

[Mifune]

Just take a look at lots of the shots in scene showing the ship landing in the frozen tundra, the camera movement is extremely dynamic and utilizes long takes far more than what is the norm.

Yeah, that whole cutscene was excellent. I loved the way the "camera" swooped around the soldiers and then did a 180 so you could see what was happening ahead/behind. Very cool stuff. I also like how we get some brief character moments with a couple of the soldiers before they go out to die. Felt kind of atypical for a war-based video game.

I'm kind of mixed on the cutscenes as a whole, though. Some of them come across as very stiff, and I'm not sure if that's due to the writing, acting, or something else. Voice acting especially is usually very strong in SK games. Hopefully it works better in context.

The storyline definitely has me intrigued.

 

[Bildi]

This one:
Prologue Cam HD

I mean, lets not fool ourselves, there are way too many camera changes in that scene to be real time. The UE3 struggles with every camera change, and thus the texture pop-up happens. If that is realtime, then Dyack am GOD confirmed.

edit: Also, that monster better be a boss.

I would guess it's all real time. As you know those interactive flashbacks have no loadtimes and they move from one area to a completely different one instantly.

It's definitely extremely impressive. To get the loading happening all in the background is a great accomplishment.

 

[Pistolero]

Looks quite good actually. Let's hope for the best.

 

[Ark-AMN]

I would guess it's all real time. As you know those interactive flashbacks have no loadtimes and they move from one area to a completely different one instantly.

It's definitely extremely impressive. To get the loading happening all in the background is a great accomplishment.

Indeed, it's quite an eyesore to go back to Mass Effect now and see all the blatant texture pop-in.

 

[Lykathea]

I think it is safe to say that the cutscenes are rendered in real time. I say this because the armor is different on Baldur in almost all the cutscenes we have seen (for instance meeting in Heimdall's office has been shown before but Baldur was wearing different armor) and it would be ludicrous for SK to pre-record the cutscenes with all the different armor set-ups just to fit with what the gamer is currently wearing.

 

[Ark-AMN]

I think it is safe to say that the cutscenes are rendered in real time. I say this because the armor is different on Baldur in almost all the cutscenes we have seen (for instance meeting in Heimdall's office has been shown before but Baldur was wearing different armor) and it would be ludicrous for SK to pre-record the cutscenes with all the different armor set-ups just to fit with what the gamer is currently wearing.

I'm pretty sure one of the previews confirmed that the cutscenes use whatever armor Baldur is wearing at the time.

 

[Lykathea]

"I'm kind of mixed on the cutscenes as a whole, though. Some of them come across as very stiff, and I'm not sure if that's due to the writing, acting, or something else. Voice acting especially is usually very strong in SK games. Hopefully it works better in context."


Hmm, I'd say I disagree. I find the VA, writing, acting (animation) to all be superb. What I especially adore is the palpable sense of hesitancy of some of the characters. For instance, the scene where Freya first meets Baldur there is clearly some past sexual tension between the two and the facial animations of the characters does an excellent job of getting across the 'awkwardness' that the characters feel (especially in Freya). Another good example occurs in the Winter Tundra scene with the one hesitant Wolf trooper. Here, he is clearly doubful of his current situation to storm an unknown structure in search of this GRNDL creature and this doesn't just come from his dialogue but from his facial expressions. Truly impressive indeed.

 

[Ark-AMN]

I think it is safe to say that the cutscenes are rendered in real time.

Found it: http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/02/hands-on-too-hu.html

Since all the cut scenes are in real time, main character Baldur's gear will always reflect what you're wearing -- even if the armor is degrading and flashing red, that'll show up in the cinematics.

Yeah, more people need to read the previews (and not Kotaku's!!!)

 

[Lykathea]

"I'm pretty sure one of the previews confirmed that the cutscenes use whatever armor Baldur is wearing at the time."

Then it is all but confirmed that they are real-time and not pre-rendered.

 

[Lykathea]

Nice find!

 

[Witchfinder General]

Sooooo gooooood.

If I only buy one game this year for my 360, it's this one.

 

[GremlinInTheMachine]

that is the first tell-tell signs of a troll. Not that you are, but 95% of the time if someone posts thats, thats exactly what they are doing.

If you like this game you have atrocious taste and no one of any importance will ever like you. We're laughing at you. All of us. The important people.

 

[Ark-AMN]

lol, I just realized that this article (http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/02/hands-on-too-hu.html) was written by Chris Kholer.

Silicon Knights' writers are master storytellers above all, and their Too Human tech is there to serve this purpose. The first half-hour of the game zips back and forth between gameplay and cut-scenes and expository flashbacks, each taking place in different, wide-open, detailed environments, and not one transition brought with it a halt in the pacing.

...

Melee attacks are done by holding the right analog stick in the direction of the enemy you want to hit, and Baldur will automatically slide there, zooming right along the floor up to them. The game's producer at Microsoft described the optimal strategy as "playing pingpong" -- you want to slide up to an enemy and attack it, then slide to an enemy behind you and attack it, and bounce back and forth. Longer slides let you build up your combo meter, which makes you attack enemies faster. But once you build the meter up enough, you can spend some of it on a supermove that crushes all the enemies around you. It's an interesting trade-off, because while it kills everything, it palpably slows you down back to the slowest combat speed.

 

[Lykathea]

"If you like this game you have atrocious taste and no one of any importance will ever like you. We're laughing at you. All of us. The important people."

No one likes this game in any concrete sense yet. We merely just like what we see and hear about the game's scope.

Also, what games should I be liking, o undisputed master of gaming taste?

Seriously, your trolling attempts keep getting worse and worse as TH keeps on progressing. I wonder why that might be? Grasping at threads much?

 

[GremlinInTheMachine]

"If you like this game you have atrocious taste and no one of any importance will ever like you. We're laughing at you. All of us. The important people."

No one likes this game in any concrete sense yet. We merely just like what we see and hear about the game's scope.

Also, what games should I be liking, o undisputed master of gaming taste?

Seriously, your trolling attempts keep getting worse and worse as TH keeps on progressing. I wonder why that might be? Grasping at threads much?

You should be an individual and like whatever appeals to you, and you should respect individuality and not feel insecure and threatened when others don't like what you do. Nor should you call them trolls in an attempt to rationalize away their conflicting opinions.

Only then shall you be at peace with the Great Beyond.

 

[Lykathea]

So let me get this straight, I respect other people's opinions on games by calling their taste atrocious when it diverges from my own? :lol

And point me to a single post of yours in this thread that has some semblance of rational critique and is not simply trolling because the normal anti-SK/DD/TH force seems to have melted into thin air.

 

[godhandiscen]

If you like this game you have atrocious taste and no one of any importance will ever like you. We're laughing at you. All of us. The important people.

Why are you trolling this game so much? Are you looking to get banned? Srsly.

You should be an individual and like whatever appeals to you, and you should respect individuality and not feel insecure and threatened when others don't like what you do. Nor should you call them trolls in an attempt to rationalize away their conflicting opinions.

Only then shall you be at peace with the Great Beyond.

Where did you get that? Final Fantasy?

 

[Salazar]

And point me to a single post of yours in this forum that has some semblance of rational critique and is not simply trolling.

For real.

 

[duffey]

If you like this game you have atrocious taste and no one of any importance will ever like you. We're laughing at you. All of us. The important people.

Yup, you sure are important on the internet.

 

[GremlinInTheMachine]

Why are you trolling this game so much? Are you looking to get banned? Srsly.

Where did you get that? Final Fantasy?

I wasn't trolling it at all. I simply stated my opinion on the game. The insecure hive collective then immediately began throwing a fit. At that point how can I not mock them? Do you realize the entertainment opportunity that situation creates? And its not like they don’t deserve it in spades.

And Final Fantasy? You may wanna get out of the house a little more.

 

[Rorschach]

I don't like this infomercial format... :|

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

If you like this game you have atrocious taste and no one of any importance will ever like you. We're laughing at you. All of us. The important people.

Important people wouldn't be moronic enough to say "Not to (verb) but" given you acknowledge you're doing the thing you said you're not doing. People like Scoobs are those that should be laughed at, and seems like they're in your crowd.

 

[GremlinInTheMachine]

So let me get this straight, I respect other people's opinions on games by calling their taste atrocious when it diverges from my own? :lol

Two points.

First, it was sarcasm. It was mocking people who are insecure about their own opinions. That I even have to explain this to you.

Second, I never said you should respect anyone's opinion. That's not the issue. The issue is being secure in your own opinion and not requiring others to affirm it. It has nothing to do with respecting opinions. There's no reason to respect bad taste.

 

[GremlinInTheMachine]

Important people wouldn't be moronic enough to say "Not to (verb) but" given you acknowledge you're doing the thing you said you're not doing. People like Scoobs are those that should be laughed at, and seems like they're in your crowd.

Right over your head. :lol

 

[Lykathea]

I refuse to get into a semantics debate with you.

The point remains that unless you have something to contribute to the discussion of TH besides "TEH Animatations SUxxorZ" why are you still here?

This is not to say that all I want are positive opinions about the game, quite the contrary. In fact I encourage negative opinions with open arms so long as the points articulated are well defended and reasonable. Unfortunately, you do not seem to partake in parle in this manner so I am afraid I will have to ignore you from here on out.

 

[GremlinInTheMachine]

I refuse to get into a semantics debate with you.

The point remains that unless you have something to contribute to the discussion of TH besides "TEH Animatations SUxxorZ" why are you still here?

This is not to say that all I want are positive opinions about the game, quite the contrary. In fact I encourage negative opinions with open arms so long as the points articulated are well defended and reasonable. Unfortunately, you do not seem to partake in parle in this manner so I am afraid I will have to ignore you from here on out.

Read my first post in the thread. I explained exactly why I think the game will be bad. I even went into boring detail about why the animation is janked.

And I didn't start making fun of people until they threw a temper tantrum because I radically disagree with them on the quality of the game.

And using the venerable "you're arguing semantics" face-saving copout is facile. My point is crystal clear and you yourself just said you agree with it. What you may disagree with me on is mocking them for being insecure. If so, I'd then point out that these are adults who are insecure about their preferences in video games. Surely they're fair game.

 

[Bildi]

...you should respect individuality and not feel insecure and threatened when others don't like what you do.

Good advice.

Please take it and get the fuck out of the thread. Can everyone please now stop quoting this retard.

 

[sinnergy]

Visually the game looks outstanding. Dyack delivered on that part.

 

[GremlinInTheMachine]

Good advice.

Please take it and get the fuck out of the thread. Can everyone please now stop quoting this retard.

You're angry. :lol

 

[Borys]

God this looks so fucking awesome. Can't believe nobody did this kind of game before (Diablo + DMC + sci-fi).

 

[Atomspike]

Right on the money Gremlin ! fascist pigs , that's what they are .

here in Gaf , you have to adhere to the "if you are not with us , you are against us" mantra or you get the Nazi Gestapo treatment .

 

[DubloSeven]

I must say, I'm very impressed by those videos.

I can't wait.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Looks awesome. Day 1.

 

[godhandiscen]

God this looks so fucking awesome. Can't believe nobody did this kind of game before (Diablo + DMC + sci-fi).

The fact you are calling it good, suggests me I should wait for the PC version. WHAT DID YOU HEAR? SPEAK NOW!