Prisoner KSC2-303
Member
Do we have any context for this yet beyond one side of the story?
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Transgender journalist at EG Expo called "this person" on stage at MS event (See OP)
- Thread starter winstano
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Also, not even the issue anyway. The issue is being called an "it"
We have no context for that part. We don't know when he said that, if it was before or after calling Laura "it" or if he was already aware she is transgender.
Luara can easily be mistaken for a man so if he said that before he was aware of her situation then it is totally excusable.
Okay. It could be very possible then, that he did just think it was a man dressed in drag. And that would make a big difference in my eyes.
Nah you diminish the term throwing it around like that. Murderers and the like are monsters.
Dictator93
Member
Quoting myself again for clarficiation.
He's a british comedian.
Except she says she was. That doesn't mean people are assuming, it means people are believing what she says, because she was there and we weren't and she was the offended party, so she knows if she was offended.
You weren't there for this particular bit, and have no real information to add to this, and yet you're going out of your way to try and create some other context for these cruel and callous comments.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
I'm annoyed by things like this mainly because it puts a name on the gaming community as a whole. If people are welcoming the addition of different gender roles in the virtual world and critics themselves are applauding them why is it that we can't accept these same differences in the real one as well?
Take these two videos-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0tZipq44Oo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JguHAhZHuiA
While watching the video I was interested in the news content of the game Batman Arkham Origins being presented and was only mildly interested in the actual presenters. Yet look at the comment section below and you'll think have the viewers are barely interested in the game at all. Many posters are complaining about the journalist who interviewed Montreal, criticizing Gamespot for such a journalist and ignorantly asking the gender of this person. Yes, some of them are most likely people just trying to anger those who would clearly take offense yet it is truly saddening that there isn't a loud enough against this kind of hate. Video gaming isn't widely accepted in many parts of the world and shouldn't be something only a select few are allowed to take part of or else we risk it dying out. If gamers welcome innovation in the industry they shouldn't confine the change only in their games.
Take these two videos-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0tZipq44Oo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JguHAhZHuiA
While watching the video I was interested in the news content of the game Batman Arkham Origins being presented and was only mildly interested in the actual presenters. Yet look at the comment section below and you'll think have the viewers are barely interested in the game at all. Many posters are complaining about the journalist who interviewed Montreal, criticizing Gamespot for such a journalist and ignorantly asking the gender of this person. Yes, some of them are most likely people just trying to anger those who would clearly take offense yet it is truly saddening that there isn't a loud enough against this kind of hate. Video gaming isn't widely accepted in many parts of the world and shouldn't be something only a select few are allowed to take part of or else we risk it dying out. If gamers welcome innovation in the industry they shouldn't confine the change only in their games.
KaiserBecks
Member
Look at the picture. If you didn't know, would you get the impression that person is transgender? Honestly? For a comedian, the haircut alone would warrant the "it" comment. I didn't see the picture before but I'm now convinced that the guy didn't even know she took that as an insult based on her sexuality. If that is what she currently looks like, of course.
Yes. However, we don't have the full story yet.
If we have the right one - and it would seem strange for two comedians with the same first name to star in one show - he is British so yes.
We're going off of the information available to us. We're not assuming. That's not what an assumption is. Why should we be going with "she probably misheard" or "the person was probably just talking about something in the game".
Why are you saying we should just assume she's wrong or lying?
michaelius
Banned
What was she doing on stage ?
Was the comedian looking for a girl volunteer to run one of his gags ? If he did and the volunteer looked like man at first glance he could have assumed someone is trying to troll him.
Was the comedian looking for a girl volunteer to run one of his gags ? If he did and the volunteer looked like man at first glance he could have assumed someone is trying to troll him.
ricardo_sousa11
Member
Pre-Order Cancelled !
* It is awfull :/
* It is awfull :/
Night Angel
Member
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
What would going after Microsoft for what some random presenter they hired for a stage event accomplish? I understand the frustration (because holly shit, this is awful), but people need to take a deep breath, get the whole story, and let this thing play out a bit more before rushing to get their torches. Dale herself has called for calm; if she isn't going for revenge, why should you?
chrominance
Member
I don't know how reprehensible the comedian is because we don't really have much info about what happened--even Laura's account is cursory, probably because of Twitter limits--but honestly, even if you're unsure as to what pronoun to use, there are plenty of good ways to avoid the issue altogether. Why not call her Laura? That's her name, after all. And probably also a bit of a clue, since Laura's not generally considered a unisex name. I feel like this should be Public Speaking 101 material.
It's potentially true that everything that comedian said wasn't intended to injure, but was really just the result of him not knowing what to say and screwing it up pretty badly in a high-pressure environment (performing on stage). But that's no reason for either Microsoft or the comedian to not at least apologise to her afterwards (though it sounds like that happened in a very limited capacity?).
It's potentially true that everything that comedian said wasn't intended to injure, but was really just the result of him not knowing what to say and screwing it up pretty badly in a high-pressure environment (performing on stage). But that's no reason for either Microsoft or the comedian to not at least apologise to her afterwards (though it sounds like that happened in a very limited capacity?).
Warmijwilf
Banned
I WAS there for the particular bit on a previous day, yes, admittedly not today, and I know what the guy was using and how he was speaking. I'm not saying she doesn't have the right to be offended but we don't know yet, because we don't have the other side of the story from the comedian yet, what exactly the comedian was referring to.
People get offended, but that doesn't mean everything they say is always in the right and they're always necessarily right about everything and people should automatically take their side.
If it was meant in the transphobic way (and not her just misunderstanding) then fair play, but we don't have all the facts yet, we don't KNOW the context.
Warmijwilf
Banned
I'm not saying you should assume she's wrong or lying, I'm saying you shouldn't assume anything at this point until we have all the facts. There is a chance everything she is saying is 100% definitely what happened and the guy was being a transphobic asshat, but we don't know that yet. She could've heard some stuff wrongly so getting your pitchforks out right now is ridiculous.
Evil Monkey DTT
Banned
I use the word monster differently I guess. In my eyes monster is someone I would want nothing to do with what so ever.
My thing is this: if you don't know, then don't go there. If we're talking about a comedy club where you know you're going to hear offensive things, say whatever. The atmosphere and situation are one where that is to be expected.
When you're at an event working as PR for a huge corporation, maybe you should decide to make better judgement calls. If he was confused by Laura's gender, the he shouldn't have even touched the subject. He could have made fun of her hair or any other number of things if he needed to find source for a joke or two.
My point is what reason do we have to doubt her information other than an incredibly flimsy "she probably just misheard him on multiple occasions"?
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
Look at the picture. If you didn't know, would you get the impression that person is transgender? Honestly? For a comedian, the haircut alone would warrant the "it" comment. I didn't see the picture before but I'm now convinced that the guy didn't even know she took that as an insult based on her sexuality. If that is what she currently looks like, of course.
It's not a haircut, it's a Rainbow Dash wig, at least I'm pretty sure of that.
Sigh, someone haid to state that at one point anyway, I guess. Do we have an idea if she was wearing this during that incident?
Taken out of context this sounds pretty horrendous, but if the guy in question invited a female onto the stage and the transgendered person shows up, the comedian could've thought it was some sort of gag(a man in drag, whatever), ran with it, and ended up making a horrible mistake.
"It" is a term I use when describing materials I use during lab. "It" is not a term I'd use in any way to refer to a person. If someone cannot honestly determine why a person would be unhappy being referred to as "it", regardless of the circumstance, then that's a problem.
I just mean that it's kinda inappropriate to ask for understanding and sensibility for that guy by saying "not to start a witch hunt, when this is what happens very often to persons like the one he insulted.
Using the wrong gender pronoun due to ignorance or confusion is a mistake. Calling her "it" and "thing" is completely unacceptable. Microsoft should make amends; the comedian represented the company and is ultimately Microsoft's responsibility, hired help or otherwise.
This situation is shameful.
This situation is shameful.
Look at the picture. If you didn't know, would you get the impression that person is transgender? Honestly? For a comedian, the haircut alone would warrant the "it" comment. I didn't see the picture before but I'm now convinced that the guy didn't even know she took that as an insult based on her sexuality. If that is what she currently looks like, of course.
Is this how Laura Kate Dale usually looks with the long rainbow hair, squirrel ears, and goggles? Or better question is that how she was dressed on stage when she got embarrassed?
Warmijwilf
Banned
We don't have reason to doubt her information, but she hasn't provided any context other than "I was called it/thing" but not said in what possible way, and believe it or not, context can totally change how something is meant, y'know? Let's say the comedian was definitely aiming "it" and "thing" at her and not an in-game thing, for all we know he was aiming it at her but poking fun at her or whatever for being a brony or dressing crazily, nothing to do with her gender. Wait until she provides more info on it or the comedian steps up and does.
The point is you guys have clearly already made your minds up and whatever the comedian or MS or whatever says, even if they apologise (OMG TOO LITTLE TOO LATE MS U SUCK) people will just bash and criticise either way. I guess it doesn't matter, I don't know why I'm bothering.
Catman Begins
Neo Member
Calling anyone "it" or "thing" is absolutely abhorrent and should not be tolerated.
If this Frasier twat hadn't done that, and just referred to Laura as "he/him", would he have still been in the wrong? At what point do you ask people which gender they identify with? Isn't asking that question in of itself rude?
If this Frasier twat hadn't done that, and just referred to Laura as "he/him", would he have still been in the wrong? At what point do you ask people which gender they identify with? Isn't asking that question in of itself rude?
Look at the picture. If you didn't know, would you get the impression that person is transgender? Honestly? For a comedian, the haircut alone would warrant the "it" comment. I didn't see the picture before but I'm now convinced that the guy didn't even know she took that as an insult based on her sexuality. If that is what she currently looks like, of course.
If the mistake was made and the comedian had apologized that'd have been fine. But no, he kept on going "We need a woman here". Especially if she had identified herself as a woman. Do you even read the OP?!
Imperfected
Member
No, internally there does need to be an assignment of blame. They need to do an AAR - or an inquest, if you prefer - and figure out precisely where the systems in place for preventing this sort of thing from happening broke down. Most likely, it was a case of simple negligence: they may have hired an "event management" company to provide extra employees for this based purely on reputation and not dug any deeper; if they hired the comedian personally, they may have done it on word-of-mouth ("This guy really knows how to work a crowd!") from industry contacts without properly vetting him (by reviewing his stage shows, speaking with him personally, etc.); they may have failed to impress upon him the limitations of his working environment with regards to how the audience should be treated while he was working in an official capacity; they may have simply failed to supervise his work properly throughout the day and not noticed that he was becoming progressively more offensive/ill-tempered as a result of normal convention fatigue.
There's a reason these things don't happen often. There are measures in place to prevent them from happening. There is a very slight outside chance that he took it upon himself to do this in a completely uncharacteristic fashion and against the orders of those who hired him, but it's far more likely someone in charge dropped the ball.
That's how business works. There's no such thing as "blameless actions". There's always someone who had the responsibility to make sure things were handled properly, and they're always expected to answer for it when they aren't. I'm not saying that someone necessarily needs to be fired, but at a minimum they need to review their policies to make sure this wasn't caused by a failure there, and then - assuming the likely event it was a human failure - seriously ask whether the person it falls on is qualified for their responsibilities.
None of this will be much comfort to the unfortunate individual the comedian harassed, but from a pure "smart business" perspective on Microsoft's part, it's what needs to happen.
Oi, off-topic but word from the wise. Don't double post so much. If you are posting that quickly just edit it into your first post.
I didn't mean you, I meant what the guy said.
Yeah, this "entertainer" said a monstrous thing.
RoboGeorgeForeman
Banned
Look at the picture. If you didn't know, would you get the impression that person is transgender? Honestly? For a comedian, the haircut alone would warrant the "it" comment. I didn't see the picture before but I'm now convinced that the guy didn't even know she took that as an insult based on her sexuality. If that is what she currently looks like, of course.
I'd assume the journalist was a male MLP fan or Brony or whatever the fanbase calls itself at first glance. That's probably a safer target to make jokes about given how big a subject sexuality and feminism have become.
Of course its insulting. But insulting people in a comedy routine isnt uncommon. I think Triumph the dog referred to people as 'it' in comicon.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
The 'him' refers to the presenters gender
"For Dale (female) to confront him (presenter)"
It's the shit comments below that's the problem there. There's not even an attempt to follow up on this.
MasterRain
Neo Member
I hope he apologies and we can all move on.
SolidChamp
Banned
Oh god, why do people keep bringing up Triumph?
Warmijwilf
Banned
Thanks, I just thought the thread was moving so quickly that by the time I posted there'd be like, 5 extra posts. I couldn't find out how to delete a post after I made it so I just left it.
Smokey Mcpot
Banned
v-video games?
old
Member
That shit always pisses me off. It's so patronizing and condescending. It's how you say your sorry without being sorry for anything you did.
They're "sorry" you're offended. In effect, they're apologizing for your action. Your action (taking offense) is what they're apologizing for. They should be apologizing for their action.
Please your hatred is showing.
HORRORSHØW
Member
Saw the update. Fuck that "comedian." I know he doesn't represent Microsoft, but man, their image is taking a beating, even after being on the mend recently.
fabricated backlash
Member
even if it's followed by "of beauty"?
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
Why do I feel like I already know what will happen..
Comedian didn't have a clue about Laura being trans, made the joke because it's okay when brony, GAF will calm down because it's okay when brony, and everyone will unite in brony jokes until the next pony-related thread shows up.
heh
Warmijwilf
Banned
That's very possible. It could've just been an anti-brony joke that went horribly wrong.
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