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[JettDash]

So the Dems want to hold the world economy hostage to pass DACA? Cool. I can perceive no long term risk in institutionalizing a bi yearly game of chicken where the consequences for failure are the Second Great Depression.

Well I have already said they should fold if it comes down to it. They should have folded if Trump didn't agree this time. But he did.

 

[Cerium]

So the Dems want to hold the world economy hostage to pass DACA? Cool. I can perceive no long term risk in institutionalizing a bi yearly game of chicken where the consequences for failure are the Second Great Depression.

14th Amendment.

 

[NimbusD]

So the Dems want to hold the world economy hostage to pass DACA? Cool. I can perceive no long term risk in institutionalizing a bi yearly game of chicken where the consequences for failure are the Second Great Depression.

You're new to politics ain't ya?

 

[fredrancour]

I'm not sure how this is a 'win' for Democrats - they still need Republican votes to pass it, and I think that a bunch of Republicans would rather shut the government down than let the Dems have even a little victory.

Paul Ryan seems to still believe there are more trumpeters than randroids among the primary base. The congressional leaders have said they're going with trumps decision

 

[HStallion]

So the Dems want to hold the world economy hostage to pass DACA? Cool. I can perceive no long term risk in institutionalizing a bi yearly game of chicken where the consequences for failure are the Second Great Depression.

Uhh the debt ceiling fights are nothing new. You're acting like this is the first time this has happened. Its not by any means.

 

[JettDash]

Paul Ryan seems to still believe there are more trumpeters than randroids among the primary base. The congressional leaders have said they're going with trumps decision

That seems like a correct assessment to me.

 

[gaugebozo]

So the Dems want to hold the world economy hostage to pass DACA? Cool. I can perceive no long term risk in institutionalizing a bi yearly game of chicken where the consequences for failure are the Second Great Depression.

Nobody said that. When they start bargaining, one of the things on the table can be DACA. That the negotiation is starting there also means Republicans
are less likely to be able to pass truly awful stuff. It doesn't mean they take it as far as the Republicans in 2013.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

You're new to politics ain't ya?

Uhh the debt ceiling fights are nothing new. You're acting like this is the first time this has happened. Its not by any means.

I'm guessing you weren't around for the 2011 and 2013 debt ceiling standoff. Before that, the minority party generally did some kabuki flagellation of our government's irresponsibility, did some more grandstanding, and passed it. 2011 was the first time anyone had demanded any substantive policy concessions for it. And that's because it is a catastrophic breach in the norms of good governance: the leverage comes from a willingness to allow misery on a scale the congress has never intentionally tried to inflict on its own populace.

This Yglesias column is representative of the liberal consensus at the time

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox...bill_shows_why_compromise_is_unthinkable.html

But if you don't believe yglesias that this was breathtakingly and unprecedentedly irresponsible, the debt ceiling fight lead to the first downgrade in American debt in the country's history.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_credit-rating_downgrades

Less well known, our AAA status was renewed after the 2014 debt ceiling increase went off without a hitch.

One of Obama's most important legacies, as important as preventing a second depression with the stimulus or Obamacare, was winning that 2013 fight and establishing that minority parties would not be able to risk default to score political points. We cannot allow the democrats now to undo his work.

 

[JettDash]

I'm guessing you weren't around for the 2011 and 2013 debt ceiling standoff. Before that, the minority party generally did some kabuki flagellation of our government's irresponsibility, did some more grandstanding, and passed it. 2011 was the first time anyone had demanded any substantive policy concessions for it. And that's because it is a catastrophic breach in the norms of good governance: the leverage comes from a willingness to allow misery on a scale the congress has never intentionally tried to inflict on its own populace.

This Yglesias column is representative of the liberal consensus at the time

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox...bill_shows_why_compromise_is_unthinkable.html

But if you don't believe yglesias that this was breathtakingly and unprecedentedly irresponsible, the debt ceiling fight lead to the first downgrade in American debt in the country's history.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_credit-rating_downgrades

Less well known, our AAA status was renewed after the 2014 debt ceiling increase went off without a hitch.

One of Obama's most important legacies, as important as preventing a second depression with the stimulus or Obamacare, was winning that 2013 fight and establishing that minority parties would not be able to risk default to score political points. We cannot allow the democrats now to undo his work.

Obama allowed the sequester.

 

[rambis]

So the Dems want to hold the world economy hostage to pass DACA? Cool. I can perceive no long term risk in institutionalizing a bi yearly game of chicken where the consequences for failure are the Second Great Depression.

Lol wut?

The R's fought to push this back past 2018 FFS. How are D's holding anything hostage by speeding the resolution?

I doubt DACA had much to do with anything, its only now being thrown around because of its new relevance.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

Obama allowed the sequester.

Right, a pretty major mistake that he rectified by securing a clean debt ceiling increase in 2013.

 

[AndyD]

Despite all the excitement here, the pragmatist in me wants to believe that Trump did this to show the Republicans that they need to give him what he wants and give it to him quick. It's a minor win item for him, a minor but relatively inconsequential win for the Democrats, and a major "watch out" to Republicans.

 

[KHarvey16]

Despite all the excitement here, the pragmatist in me wants to believe that Trump did this to show the Republicans that they need to give him what he wants and give it to him quick. It's a minor win item for him, a minor but relatively inconsequential win for the Democrats, and a major "watch out" to Republicans.

This is absolutely not inconsequential.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Despite all the excitement here, the pragmatist in me wants to believe that Trump did this to show the Republicans that they need to give him what he wants and give it to him quick. It's a minor win item for him, a minor but relatively inconsequential win for the Democrats, and a major "watch out" to Republicans.

This isn't a minor win and will shape the legislative agenda for the rest of the this year, into next year.

Trump gave Democrats a huge amount of leverage to control the legislative process going into midterms.

 

[AndyD]

This is absolutely not inconsequential.

This isn't a minor win and will shape the legislative agenda for the rest of the this year, into next year.

Trump gave Democrats a huge amount of leverage to control the legislative process going into midterms.

I guess we'll see in the coming months. We knew the Harvey bill was going to pass and I don't see delaying the CR/debt ceiling by 3 months being a huge win short of something larger happening in th emeantime.

 

[KHarvey16]

I guess we'll see in the coming months. We knew the Harvey bill was going to pass and I don't see delaying the CR/debt ceiling by 3 months being a huge win short of something larger happening in th emeantime.

Have you read anything quoting republican officials discussing what they've lost because of this?

 

[HStallion]

I'm guessing you weren't around for the 2011 and 2013 debt ceiling standoff. Before that, the minority party generally did some kabuki flagellation of our government's irresponsibility, did some more grandstanding, and passed it. 2011 was the first time anyone had demanded any substantive policy concessions for it. And that's because it is a catastrophic breach in the norms of good governance: the leverage comes from a willingness to allow misery on a scale the congress has never intentionally tried to inflict on its own populace.

This Yglesias column is representative of the liberal consensus at the time

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox...bill_shows_why_compromise_is_unthinkable.html

But if you don't believe yglesias that this was breathtakingly and unprecedentedly irresponsible, the debt ceiling fight lead to the first downgrade in American debt in the country's history.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_credit-rating_downgrades

Less well known, our AAA status was renewed after the 2014 debt ceiling increase went off without a hitch.

One of Obama's most important legacies, as important as preventing a second depression with the stimulus or Obamacare, was winning that 2013 fight and establishing that minority parties would not be able to risk default to score political points. We cannot allow the democrats now to undo his work.

And what does any of this have to do with what I said before? This isn't the first time and it won't be the last, that was my point. This isn't new and this will by no means be the end of it.

 

[Steel]

So the Dems want to hold the world economy hostage to pass DACA? Cool. I can perceive no long term risk in institutionalizing a bi yearly game of chicken where the consequences for failure are the Second Great Depression.

You're acting like the dems wouldn't just push another 3 month extension if it came down to it. The dems aren't gonna cross the line, but the pubs want to extend the debt limit till past the elections and tie all sorts of cuts. Their choices are either negotiate with the dems on DACA and get something done or continually kick the can down the road in public because they don't want to help people that are for all intents and purposes American.

I think the latter is more likely.

 

[watershed]

I'm guessing you weren't around for the 2011 and 2013 debt ceiling standoff. Before that, the minority party generally did some kabuki flagellation of our government's irresponsibility, did some more grandstanding, and passed it. 2011 was the first time anyone had demanded any substantive policy concessions for it. And that's because it is a catastrophic breach in the norms of good governance: the leverage comes from a willingness to allow misery on a scale the congress has never intentionally tried to inflict on its own populace.

This Yglesias column is representative of the liberal consensus at the time

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox...bill_shows_why_compromise_is_unthinkable.html

But if you don't believe yglesias that this was breathtakingly and unprecedentedly irresponsible, the debt ceiling fight lead to the first downgrade in American debt in the country's history.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_credit-rating_downgrades

Less well known, our AAA status was renewed after the 2014 debt ceiling increase went off without a hitch.

One of Obama's most important legacies, as important as preventing a second depression with the stimulus or Obamacare, was winning that 2013 fight and establishing that minority parties would not be able to risk default to score political points. We cannot allow the democrats now to undo his work.

Securing the legal status and thus lives of 800,000 innocent young people and preventing blatant racism from being further enshrined into our nation's immigration policies is not "scoring political points". If you don't see how important DACA is, then you are steeped in privilege you are blind to.