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[Dash Kappei]

In other news, there's been a little controversy over them needing this kickstarter at all, given they announced Pinball Arcade has 3 million downloads and counting (on the mobile versions alone) on facebook the other day.

3+ million customers and they don't feel confident even 1% will buy this masterful table @ $3-$4 for a total of $100K... and if 10% bought it, it'd be more like $1 million.

Edit: Maybe not every download is a customer, but even still, that's pretty crazy, much higher than I expected. Plus there are plenty of customers on non-mobile platforms to offset a little of the inflation from the same person downloading it multiple times.

I don't think it's fair to calcuate neither the total purchases nor the costs that way.
What irked me tho, was seeing them asking money to cover the *full* cost of the license, when in fact they're usually paying something to license any table so they should've at least covered part of the cost of TTZ table going by what their average licensing fee costs them.

 

[Minsc]

I don't think it's fair to calcuate neither the total purchases nor the costs that way.
What irked me tho, was seeing them asking money to cover the *full* cost of the license, when in fact they're usually paying something to license any table so they should've at least covered part of the cost of TTZ table going by what their average licensing fee costs them.

Yeah, it's not. It's not fair to look at the number and think about how much money they are making, but people will do it. I just was putting out there, because people will. It's a worst case scenario to be used against them... surely they can convert 10% of the pinball fans who download their demo to buying a famous table? Because that would put around a million dollars their way. And what is 55K when the table brings in over a million dollars?

So clearly the numbers don't work out that way, maybe of those 3 million downloads, every one downloaded it 10x on 3 mobile devices, so there's only actually 100,000 unique potential customers, and of those 100,000, maybe only 1% really are interested in paying, so they are only selling the product to 1,000 people. There's way too much error involved in a statistic like that, but people will still look at 3 million downloads and think, surely there's a big enough audience behind it for them to not be doing this, especially those who don't like the Kickstarter idea to begin with.

Regardless, it does seem like a poor idea to run a kickstarter campaign to fund DLC at the same time you announce PR how well your product is selling.

 

[gar3]

Now that the 360 version is up for reward I went ahead and pledged $10.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Regardless, it does seem like a poor idea to run a kickstarter campaign to fund DLC at the same time you announce PR how well your product is selling.

Absolutely this. Feels like the community is being fleeced just a bit because they are the biggest fans of the game and pinball, in general. Whatever. X360 version, here I come.

 

[jvm]

I want their success to be trumpeted far and wide to lend this Kickstarter more credence. PR is fine by me.

 

[Plinko]

Basically at 85%. 0% chance at getting enough for ST:TNG, though, as once it crosses $55,000 people will stop donating.

 

[Minsc]

Basically at 85%. 0% chance at getting enough for ST:TNG, though, as once it crosses $55,000 people will stop donating.

I don't know if I'd go that far, I'd imagine they'll introduce new tiers for TNG, at higher price points, so maybe their $10 backers jump to $20, etc.

Though since you're actually losing money on this kickstarter by paying over 200% of the table's retail cost, I'm not sure how much it'll climb once it is funded, as buying it at release will be a lot cheaper, so we might actually see a lot of people withdrawing their support to get it at a cheaper price upon release.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Though since you're actually losing money on this kickstarter by paying over 200% of the table's retail cost, I'm not sure how much it'll climb once it is funded, as buying it at release will be a lot cheaper, so we might actually see a lot of people withdrawing their support to get it at a cheaper price upon release.

That's the problem with this whole kickstarter. That the basic game is going to cost half what the basic pledge that awards said game is. I do a fair amount of kickstarters for games and music, but before I've always felt that I'm getting what I paid for. If they had made the basic pledge $6 (to cover kickstarter and transaction fees) I would have pledged and so would some of my local pinball fan friends. I'll bet they would have hit their target within the first week.

 

[mclem]

That's the problem with this whole kickstarter. That the basic game is going to cost half what the basic pledge that awards said game is. I do a fair amount of kickstarters for games and music, but before I've always felt that I'm getting what I paid for. If they had made the basic pledge $6 (to cover kickstarter and transaction fees) I would have pledged and so would some of my local pinball fan friends. I'll bet they would have hit their target within the first week.

I'm thinking that if I were to ever create a gaming kickstarter, I'd make the 'get the game' pledge as "Retail price of final game" - "Discount from year-1 christmas sale pricing" + "Kickstarter Fees". That way the end purchaser feels like they've got a good deal compared to the launch cost *and* doesn't spend much more than a sale cost.

...of course, ultimately, you set 'em where you feel you need 'em to get funded!

 

[Jucksalbe]

Star Trek: TNG is now officially their stretch goal for $110,000. Most importantly every reward that counts for Twilight Zone will now also count for Star Trek (if they meet their goal).

 

[Gillian Seed]

Just bumped mine up to 25 bucks. I really hope we reach the 110,000. Star Trek TNG is a table i have always wanted to play. If we do not reach the Goal, i really hope they start another seperate Kickstarter for it.

 

[MattKeil]

Yeah, ST:TNG definitely deserves its own Kickstarter shot. Just the ability to play a reliably unbroken version of the table would be worth it. See also: Jurassic Park

 

[TxdoHawk]

I would be thoroughly impressed if we even made it to 80k at this point. Not being a big Star Trek fan and having already donated $100, I can't say I'm inclined to pitch in more. Now, if the stretch goal was Addams Family...I probably would've at least doubled that contribution.

Edit: What I really want to know is, what happens to that extra money if we hit $55k but don't make it to $110k? I would hope Farsight would throw that toward some kind of license...

 

[Plinko]

Really, really stupid of them not to just do an entirely new Kickstarter for ST: TNG.

There's going to be massive issues with people doubling/tripling pledges and what will happen to the money if they don't reach the goal.

 

[Jucksalbe]

This is going fast now, they passed the $50,000 mark.

 

[Jucksalbe]

Edit: What I really want to know is, what happens to that extra money if we hit $55k but don't make it to $110k? I would hope Farsight would throw that toward some kind of license...

I asked them about that. Their reply was:

Our plan is that we'll have a second campaign for Star Trek. That table is 55 grand, so our goal for that event is to take the overage we got for Twilight Zone and subtract that from 55,000. That result will be our target for the new kickstarter.

Edit: Sorry for the double post.

Edit: Aaand they reached their goal.

 

[Dash Kappei]

YESSSSSSS

Twilight Zone is a lock

Now make ST:TNG plus the Addams Family

 

[Shaneus]

Fucking awesome. Now, I didn't actually contribute and knowing that there *will* be another one for TNG, I'm going to hold off and wait for that as... well...to be honest, TZ isn't the game I really wanted out of this deal. And I prefer the idea of possibly scoring Star Trek-related bonuses over TZ ones.

Is it possible for them to just bring forward the date of this KS so they can hurry up and start the TNG one so they can take all my money?

 

[Minsc]

That stretch goal seems to have done the trick, nice. If only they could use TAF as a stretch goal instead, but TNG sounds fun too, being #3 (I guess TAF is #2, and TZ is #1), pretty big pull for TPA if they get all 3 of the top rated tables!

Fucking awesome. Now, I didn't actually contribute and knowing that there *will* be another one for TNG, I'm going to hold off and wait for that as... well...to be honest, TZ isn't the game I really wanted out of this deal. And I prefer the idea of possibly scoring Star Trek-related bonuses over TZ ones.

Is it possible for them to just bring forward the date of this KS so they can hurry up and start the TNG one so they can take all my money?

Well this one is for TNG now. You can just fund this for the same $10, and you'd get both games (which also means the kickstarter is not as much a rip-off!). If in the last day/few hours, it looks like it's not going to make it, then you can remove your funds and wait. But if you want TNG, I would just fund it now and hope it gets it to $110K, since you'd get 2 games for the $10 (or $25 if you want the custom pinball etc) vs just TNG alone next time around.

Edit: From their update:

If we reach this stretch goal (but only if we reach it), every backer Reward will also apply to Star Trek: The Next Generation. So everyone who pledges at least $10 will get the table on a single platform, everyone who pledges at least $25 will get an exclusive Star Trek virtual pinball, everyone who pledges at least $50 will get a Star Trek wallpaper, everyone who pledges at least $100 will get access to the Star Trek: The Next Generation operator's menu, and everyone who pledges $500 will be a Beta tester with early access to the Star Trek table. We would plan to launch Star Trek: The Next Generation a month behind the Twilight Zone (so approximately December 2012),

 

[jvm]

Is the current theory that TAF is unlicensable at all, or that it's in excess of $100K by itself? Would love it far more than either of the current goals, but, hey I put in my $100.

 

[Minsc]

Is the current theory that TAF is unlicensable at all, or that it's in excess of $100K by itself? Would love it far more than either of the current goals, but, hey I put in my $100.

They've said it's attainable (more or less), but they don't have everything in line. Some of that depended on how this turned out, so it's looking pretty good. It is going to run more than 55K though (license is even more money), but I don't think that will be a problem.

 

[jvm]

They've said it's attainable (more or less), but they don't have everything in line. Some of that depended on how this turned out, so it's looking pretty good. It is going to run more than 55K though (license is even more money), but I don't think that will be a problem.

I'd really like to think that increased downloads and a higher fraction of buy-in will get them some leverage and a cash cushion that they can use to make the push for TAF easier. I can't give $100 again. At least, not right now. Maybe much later this year.

 

[jgkspsx]

Raised my pledge to $100. Having both tables on all platforms with operator menus is worth it to me if we get ST:TNG. If not, though, I will probably drop it back down.

Some extra tiers and rewards would help, I think. Maybe the $25 level should include the operator menu version.

It's kind of dumb you can't edit your tiers at all.

 

[Baron]

I really wish they had made a new, separate Kickstarter thingy for the Star Trek pinball instead of just piggybacking onto the TZ one. I don't think it'll raise enough money. I never played the TZ table, but I have played the ST:TNG table and love love love(d) it. I feel like it may get the shaft.

 

[Jucksalbe]

I really wish they had made a new, separate Kickstarter thingy for the Star Trek pinball instead of just piggybacking onto the TZ one. I don't think it'll raise enough money. I never played the TZ table, but I have played the ST:TNG table and love love love(d) it. I feel like it may get the shaft.

They said they will make a separate Kickstarter entry for the remaining money they need for ST:TNG.

 

[Baron]

They said they will make a separate Kickstarter entry for the remaining money they need for ST:TNG.

Really? Well that's good news. So, if the current Kickstarter ends and they haven't made it to $110K, they'll open a new one for whatever's left to drum up?

 

[Shaneus]

I really wish they had made a new, separate Kickstarter thingy for the Star Trek pinball instead of just piggybacking onto the TZ one. I don't think it'll raise enough money. I never played the TZ table, but I have played the ST:TNG table and love love love(d) it. I feel like it may get the shaft.

You and me both, brother. I'd love to see some more talk (and progress information) strictly about TNG, whereas if they get stretch and it's approved with this one, it'll likely be focused on TZ.

Do we maybe want to mention TNG in this thread title though? It needs more info other than "TZ kickstarter, met goal". TNG is probably more well known and popular around here, too. I know I've played (by virtue of what tables have been around in my city) far more TNG than TZ. But I'm a bigger fan of Steve Ritchie's tables anyway.

 

[Jucksalbe]

Really? Well that's good news. So, if the current Kickstarter ends and they haven't made it to $110K, they'll open a new one for whatever's left to drum up?

Yes. I asked them about it. I quoted their reply a few posts earlier.

 

[Minsc]

You and me both, brother. I'd love to see some more talk (and progress information) strictly about TNG, whereas if they get stretch and it's approved with this one, it'll likely be focused on TZ.

Do we maybe want to mention TNG in this thread title though? It needs more info other than "TZ kickstarter, met goal". TNG is probably more well known and popular around here, too. I know I've played (by virtue of what tables have been around in my city) far more TNG than TZ. But I'm a bigger fan of Steve Ritchie's tables anyway.

I imagine all future updates will be more about TNG, but it's not like they really told us too much about TZ either...

 

[Shaneus]

True. Also, thanks for the thread title update, whoever!

 

[GDJustin]

Although I don't really think Farsight has handled this the right way, one nice side effect of setting up the TNG stretch goal in this way is that it works out as a really great value for donators. Example:

I put in $10 to get Twilight Zone on on iOS. Now if they reach $110K, even if I don't move my pledge at all I get Twilight Zone and Star Trek for $10. Paying $5 for each table is a much better deal than $10.

Of course, if it goes down to the wire and it's looking like they might not hit $110K I'm not opposed at all to chipping in more. I just want to see if new contributors can make up the slack first.

 

[mclem]

It's kind of dumb you can't edit your tiers at all.

It makes sense to prevent you from taking things away from people, but it'd be wonderful if it was possible to strictly *add* to them; make it impossible to edit existing text, but you can add further paragraphs if you wish.

That model would also have the pleasant side-effect of organising the reward lists into helpful bulletpoints, which would be much less cluttered than the current implementation.

I put in $10 to get Twilight Zone on on iOS. Now if they reach $110K, even if I don't move my pledge at all I get Twilight Zone and Star Trek for $10. Paying $5 for each table is a much better deal than $10.

If it doesn't make it to $110k and they open a second kickstarter for the difference, I'm curious how they'll be handling the rewards for that; they'd need to be very careful or creative to avoid the risk of donators to Twilight Zone feeling cheated; if it ends up that Twilight Zone's Kickstarter does the majority of contribution to Star Trek, I think it's arguable that TZ donators should get TNG, too... which makes things tricky.

 

[Jucksalbe]

Seems like people gave up hope on Star Trek and are dropping out now. The Kickstarter actually did negative numbers today (so far).

 

[SmithnCo]

Yeah... The possibility of getting both with one donation is nice but TNG should have had its own kickstarter. I don't think the final leg boost can make up the difference.

 

[Jucksalbe]

They added two new reward tiers at $20 and $40:

Pledge $20 or more

Get the Twilight Zone pinball table on any two platforms of your choice!

Pledge $40 or more

Everything above PLUS your name listed as a backer in the game credits! How cool is that?!?

 

[kevm3]

what about pinball is creative enough to need a kickstarter? Seems like more of a case of if we can get interest-free capital then let's shoot it out there.

 

[Jucksalbe]

what about pinball is creative enough to need a kickstarter? Seems like more of a case of if we can get interest-free capital then let's shoot it out there.

You could have at least watched the video on top of the Kickstarter page. They do a good job at explaining their goal and why they think they need Kickstarter.

 

[Shaneus]

They added two new reward tiers at $20 and $40:

Does that technically mean that for $20, you'd (potentially) get TZ and ST:TNG on two platforms? $10 is about my go-to price, so I think that's what I'll update my thing to. Should get enough likeminded people to double their contribution, too.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

what about pinball is creative enough to need a kickstarter? Seems like more of a case of if we can get interest-free capital then let's shoot it out there.

You...didn't read the thread, did you? They need the money for the licensing fees for The Twilight Zone. The actual game itself is already done and has been out for a while now. This is for DLC.

Also I love how you're implying that pinball isn't creative.

 

[exmachina64]

Does that technically mean that for $20, you'd (potentially) get TZ and ST:TNG on two platforms? $10 is about my go-to price, so I think that's what I'll update my thing to. Should get enough likeminded people to double their contribution, too.

It did for me. The 360 is my preferred platform, but I wouldn't mind an additional copy for my Android phone. $20 is close to their $25 tier, but I don't care about the special pinballs.

 

[Aselith]

Does that technically mean that for $20, you'd (potentially) get TZ and ST:TNG on two platforms? $10 is about my go-to price, so I think that's what I'll update my thing to. Should get enough likeminded people to double their contribution, too.

Yes, they specifically said it does so it's quite a good deal if you'd use both. I went ahead and upped my pledge and then I'll probably lower it before they don't make the goal if they don't.

 

[Shaneus]

In other news, there's been a little controversy over them needing this kickstarter at all, given they announced Pinball Arcade has 3 million downloads and counting (on the mobile versions alone) on facebook the other day.

3+ million customers and they don't feel confident even 1% will buy this masterful table @ $3-$4 for a total of $100K... and if 10% bought it, it'd be more like $1 million.

Edit: Maybe not every download is a customer, but even still, that's pretty crazy, much higher than I expected. Plus there are plenty of customers on non-mobile platforms to offset a little of the inflation from the same person downloading it multiple times.

I just read this on their FB and saw it here, but yeah... I had no idea they were THAT successful. Even if, say, the average person spends $1 (given that a few would buy all but far more wouldn't spend anything) that's $3,000,000. I was under the impression that there were maybe 10-20k people getting into it at the most, not three million. And not being able to scrounge up $55k seems really, really odd.

Great publicity, though. And I'm still more for a standalone TNG KS. Get Patrick Stewart to appear on the vid. If it's enough for him to have his voice on the original game, I'd reckon he could find a minute or two to plug the game.

 

[Jucksalbe]

They made it past $70,000. I wonder how close they can get to their stretch goal of $110,000. At least it seems people still hope they'll make it, I would have thought it will stay around $60,000-$65,000 until the end.

 

[jvm]

I'd love to see it go close enough to $110K that the licensor would say "you know what, we'll take a chance and give you the license for what you've got". I bet they (the licensor) didn't actually think they'd get this far...

 

[exmachina64]

Some extra tiers and rewards would help, I think. Maybe the $25 level should include the operator menu version.

They don't include the operator's menu with any of their current tables. Unlike Pinball FX2, having access to the operator's menu is really a bonus in this game.

I just read this on their FB and saw it here, but yeah... I had no idea they were THAT successful. Even if, say, the average person spends $1 (given that a few would buy all but far more wouldn't spend anything) that's $3,000,000. I was under the impression that there were maybe 10-20k people getting into it at the most, not three million. And not being able to scrounge up $55k seems really, really odd..

The average person isn't spending $1. Each table individually is $2.99. The eight tables are broken up into two DLC packs that cost $4.99 each. To reach $3,000,000, 600,000 people would have to spend $5.

 

[Jucksalbe]

The Added Value In Upping Your Pledge NOW Vs. Waiting To Pledge On The Star Trek : The Next Generation Kickstarter Project.
He makes some good points, even though I don't agree with everything.

 

[StrikerObi]

The Added Value In Upping Your Pledge NOW Vs. Waiting To Pledge On The Star Trek : The Next Generation Kickstarter Project.
He makes some good points, even though I don't agree with everything.

Yeah he makes a good point, but I'm not upping my pledge. Technically I already did. I started at $10 and changed to $25 when they added that reward level.

The way Kickstarter is designed, if you don't reach your funding goal, you don't get the money. By upping you pledge now (after they have already met their funding goal of $55k) they will get your money even if they don't make it to the stretch goal of $110,000.

I'll pledge $10 more for ST:TNG on that kickstarter page. I don't care if I'm "getting less" by doing it that way. I'm doing it the way Kickstarter is designed to work (the way that does not waste my money).

 

[Plinko]

Thinking about the Addams Family machine, didn't Raul Julia say he didn't want anybody licensing his image after his death? I thought I remembered that story being out there.

 

[jgkspsx]

If you boost your pledge now, you can drop it later, which is what I plan to do Saturday night after we fail to meet the stretch goal.

 

[Shaneus]

The average person isn't spending $1. Each table individually is $2.99. The eight tables are broken up into two DLC packs that cost $4.99 each. To reach $3,000,000, 600,000 people would have to spend $5.

I was counting those who downloaded the free versions as well. No idea on the ratios, but if I had to guess I'd say that far more people who downloaded it *didn't* spend anything on it han those who did. Including those who download it then got rid of it after one go.