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[King of Custard]

Did the streamers know the kid was 14 when they took the payment, if not then I think they have a good chance at a legal claim against PayPal as in most countries 14 year olds are not allowed to enter a legally binding contract making his entire account illegal and PayPal responsible.

 

[Dimitri LH]

This thread is getting...... =(

Feel bad for the streamers, if they enjoy what they do and get money out of it, then let them be. Sure there are some streamers that ask for too much, but quit putting them all together as if they were all the same.


I hope the streamers get out of this hole.... =(

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Kind of shitty how a thread bringing light to a serious issue of Paypal taking money back long after it's already been transferred and spent had to get hijacked by some real bitter/jealous types.

 

[Ranger X]

What's the time limit Paypal can allow a chargeback? And is it written in their related terms of use?

 

[SwiftDeath]

What's the time limit Paypal can allow a chargeback? And is it written in their related terms of use?

Chargeback is a feature of credit cards, not paypal. Generally I believe it's 60 days for "billing errors" and a year or so on more substantiated claims although that requires a lot more proof of why you need the chargeback

 

[kick51]

Chargeback is a feature of credit cards, not paypal. Generally I believe it's 60 days for "billing errors" and a year or so on more substantiated claims although that requires a lot more proof of why you need the chargeback

bingo

they're a middle man

 

[nateeasy]

If $150 charge back puts you in debt you probably need another source of income.

 

[ash321]

If $150 charge back puts you in debt you probably need another source of income.

Next time instead of looking for some sarcastic line to type, try reading the OP instead

For instance, JaccaMacca is a 14 year old from the UK whom had used the money to get a capture device for his 3DS as well as a monitor. Now he has his PayPal account basically closed and owes them $720 he can't possibly have, as he wasn't partnered and this was his only form of income.

 

[nateeasy]

Next time instead of looking for some sarcastic line to type, try reading the OP instead

Maybe you should read the op.

 

[ash321]

Maybe you should read the op.

Edit: fk it, not worth to continue the conversation

 

[BlackBuzzard]

I hope this whole subscription/donation thing ends soon on twitch.

For example Sodapoppin made alone with his 24h stream 13k. I repeat 13000$ in just 1 day.

People getting paid for playing vidyagaems... stahp.

Spoiler

Yeah i'm jelly.

I hate that mini Pewdiepie.

 

[Arkam]

This is why I stream for fun and DON'T ask for donations.

You are a good person. Cyber begging has been getting out of hand. A stream of you playing a game is not a service so quit treating it like one.

 

[DirtyLary]

Is there no limit on how many months the donor can go back?

For what its worth. I sold some intangibles through paypal. 7 months later Paypal contacted me as the credit card owner claimed "their gf used their cc without their knowledge" without a proper receipt PP sided with the person demanding a refund and promptly took the money back.

Cover your asses.

 

[J'aime Fils-Aime]

I don't feel like there's really a bad guy in this scenario. Sure, the fifteen year old who used his parents' credit card is the culprit, but he is fifteen, and I'm sure he didn't mean to scam kids. His issue is with his parents.

You are a good person. Cyber begging has been getting out of hand. A stream of you playing a game is not a service so quit treating it like one.

Amen. People need to work real jobs. That's why I don't pay for tickets to concerts or movies I see in theaters, because entertainment isn't a real job, and nobody deserves money for doing things that make people happy enough to want to give them money. That's also why I refuse to give money to charities, because those are fake jobs that rely on begging, not real jobs like mine. I also don't tip, because I'm not a charity.

I'm such a good person. That's why my wife cheated on me with that evil streamer. She was so jealous.

 

[Tellaerin]

You are a good person. Cyber begging has been getting out of hand. A stream of you playing a game is not a service so quit treating it like one.

Professional athletes make millions of dollars a year playing the games they love in front of an audience. I'm not going to tell those guys to "get a real job", even though their careers amount to doing stuff they'd be doing in their spare time if they couldn't make a living from it. So I'm not about to hate on people who do the same thing with other hobbies. If people enjoy watching these streams enough that they'll donate to keep them going, why shouldn't these kids make some money?

 

[Skeyser]

Next time instead of looking for some sarcastic line to type, try reading the OP instead

its paypal, they should be aware that its easy as fuck to be charged back. I dont really feel sorry for anyone who burn all the money they get from it without having some spare cash for situations like these.

 

[SirCrush]

I always tell people to never, ever use Paypal if there are any other options whatsoever. They are a scummy company that should never be trusted to do the right thing.

Ah so his parents being out $11,000 is the right thing. Interesting.

 

[KillerIsJed]

Professional athletes make millions of dollars a year playing the games they love in front of an audience. I'm not going to tell those guys to "get a real job", even though their careers amount to doing stuff they'd be doing in their spare time if they couldn't make a living from it. So I'm not about to hate on people who do the same thing with other hobbies. If people enjoy watching these streams enough that they'll donate to keep them going, why shouldn't these kids make some money?

Thanks for being a voice of reason.

 

[Vigilant Gambit]

The takeaway from this is to either treat all money from PayPal as funny money until it's at least 3 months old

or take bitcoin donations instead

 

[KingV]

What happens when they go through the bank to cancel the charge though? I can't see how any site can protect against this kind of thing unless they take the hit themselves, which would make them unprofitable as a company I'd imagine.

I used to run the card fraud strategy at a major bank and can fill in a little bit on what is going on here. There is a distinction in the regulations about who is liable for fraud on an account. For in person transactions, the bank has to just eat the loss. For online transactions, it's basically the merchant that's liable. In both instances, the bank or the merchant can shift blame back and forth via charge backs.

What's happening here is the bank is reporting it as fraud and paypal is being held liable, and has just chosen to pass that onto their customers. PayPal doesn't have to do that, they could just eat the cost. IMO there is probably room for a site to allow an additional fee to insure against fraud related losses for an additional 1-2% of revenue so this doesn't happen. I'm not really sure if Paypal can actually legally compel you to pay them back, however. My guess is that their legal case is shaky for that, though I'm not a lawyer. If I (PayPal) give somebody $1000, it's usually not easy for me then claim they need to give money back.

 

[Solid Samus]

edit - why bother with the saltiest bitches i've ever ever seen on this site. some of you really ought to pry the sticks out your fuckin' asses. All this legitimate jealousy and moral posturing. Be less pathetic.

 

[G-Fex]

The best ones are the ones that stop every 2 minutes to read donations

 

[Arken2121]

it's a service because people are willing to pay and contribute to because they enjoy the content

how some of y'all salty babies don't get this is just outside of my comprehension

some people go overboard in asking for donations but if people are willing to pay because they enjoy the stream and it's not hurting anyone, then what is there to bitch about

for real

I can agree to that to some degree but actively asking for donations is too much. I suppose if it happens without any input on the streamer then so be it. For me, fuck donations, just come in and hang.

 

[PedroLumpy]

I am offended someone I don't know gave money to another person I don't know.

 

[Velcro Fly]

I can agree to that to some degree but actively asking for donations is too much. I suppose if it happens without any input on the streamer then so be it. For me, fuck donations, just come in and hang.

Having a link to donate in your profile isn't really asking. Most people do it as a result of being asked if they can donate money. There are some that are shameless about it but they are few and far between.

 

[Arken2121]

Having a link to donate in your profile isn't really asking. Most people do it as a result of being asked if they can donate money. There are some that are shameless about it but they are few and far between.

I don't know, I just find it tasteless to have a donate button. I just feel that if you have the means to play games and entertain others, why bother with donations? Just chilling and shooting the shit with a lot of good people seems to be more rewarding(for me at least).

 

[Skeyser]

I don't know, I just find it tasteless to have a donate button. I just feel that if you have the means to play games and entertain others, why bother with donations? Just chilling and shooting the shit with a lot of good people seems to be more rewarding(for me at least).

ever considered that maybe, just maybe some of those people actually have rents to pay and wouldn't be able to stream that much if it weren't for the donations?

 

[Arken2121]

ever considered that maybe, just maybe some of those people actually have rents to pay and wouldn't be able to stream that much if it weren't for the donations?

I suppose, I posted a few days ago stating that everyone's situation is different and I can respect that. I just don't think relying on donations as(potentially) your main source of income to be a good idea. Getting paid for what you enjoy doing is awesome though.

 

[G-Fex]

ever considered that maybe, just maybe some of those people actually have rents to pay and wouldn't be able to stream that much if it weren't for the donations?

ever consider maybe...that they're not obligated to pay for such things?

 

[Skeyser]

ever consider maybe...that they're not obligated to pay for such things?

I said some of those people, so yeah, I did consider that

 

[Data West]

Professional athletes make millions of dollars a year playing the games they love in front of an audience. I'm not going to tell those guys to "get a real job", even though their careers amount to doing stuff they'd be doing in their spare time if they couldn't make a living from it. So I'm not about to hate on people who do the same thing with other hobbies. If people enjoy watching these streams enough that they'll donate to keep them going, why shouldn't these kids make some money?

What part of video game streaming includes waking up at 5 am for exercise drills and playing a sport that constantly puts you at risk of major injures and concussions?

 

[G-Fex]

What part of video game streaming includes waking up at 5 am for exercise drills and playing a sport that constantly puts you at risk of major injures and concussions?

Athletes gotta make way for Dansgaming.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

ever consider maybe...that they're not obligated to pay for such things?

what?


who said they were?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

What part of video game streaming includes waking up at 5 am for exercise drills and playing a sport that constantly puts you at risk of major injures and concussions?

You think those reasons are why pro athletes are paid the way they are?

That's adorable.

 

[Death Metalist]

edit - why bother with the saltiest bitches i've ever ever seen on this site. some of you really ought to pry the sticks out your fuckin' asses. All this legitimate jealousy and moral posturing. Be less pathetic.

I'm not taking any sides but damn, lighten up will you? People are just posting their opinions weather you like them or not so it's either they see it's fine for people to get money that way or they are the "saltiest bitches" as you state such people to be? lol.

No need to talk shit, everyone is free to post their own damn opinion. How about talking about why people feel that way instead of acting like you know it all.

Jesus.

 

[G-Fex]

what?


who said they were?

Nothing wrong with helping someone out in a bad situation to pay rent or even a bill to keep the internet on even.

But when they do as an ongoing thing , then obviously it's not good.

 

[Arken2121]

I'd like to help those affected, it's a hard lesson to learn but something a kid shouldn't have to endure. I had an idea earlier about matching donations to help these guys a few pages back but got no response. Any ideas how one would implement this?

 

[S1n1st3r]

As someone who had their CC fraudulently charged for 1000$ for some fake insurance company(luckily I promptly reported it and got my money back), I remember the utter shock and horror of it.

And this is sounding like a case of stolen Cc.

Sorry twitch people, I'm gonna side with the Cc fraud victims here, I don't care if 90 days pass, they have to be given their money back.

 

[Kieli]

I'm surprised the kid managed to make more than one 10k "purchase" without flagging the credit card account and notifying the CC company.

 

[kick51]

What part of video game streaming includes waking up at 5 am for exercise drills and playing a sport that constantly puts you at risk of major injures and concussions?

oh yeah that totally explains sports salaries

the salt in this thread is unreal. though I'll admit, it stung a little at first to learn that people make livings off youtube and twitch. after getting to the acceptance stage, you can see some of the big downsides to it.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Nothing wrong with helping someone out in a bad situation to pay rent or even a bill to keep the internet on even.

But when they do as an ongoing thing , then obviously it's not good.

why? if streamer isn't beating it over your head or acting all sorts of entitled to it and if viewers genuinely would like to throw some money in then it doesn't seem like a problem to me. at least, not until this sort of thing happens and you don't have anything to fall back on, I suppose

You can't constantly depend on your viewers to pay for your things you should be trying to take care of yourself.

no, seriously, why though? what makes that concept so wrong? if you stream and you're good at it and people enjoy what you do and want to pay your way then what's keeping that from being considered some sort of legitimate income in this thread?

 

[G-Fex]

why

What do you mean 'why' ?

You can't constantly depend on your viewers to pay for your things you should be trying to take care of yourself.

 

[TSM]

People making a living through donations are basically buskers. They do things people find entertaining for money.

 

[charlequin]

What's happening here is the bank is reporting it as fraud and paypal is being held liable, and has just chosen to pass that onto their customers. PayPal doesn't have to do that, they could just eat the cost.

Thanks for the info. This supports what I'm saying -- there's no actual reason PayPal has to push this cost onto the person who experienced a fraudulent charge.

You can't constantly depend on your viewers to pay for your things you should be trying to take care of yourself.

Do you actually have an underlying reason for this somewhere or are you going to just keep repeating your original assertion every time people ask you to explain it? "It's bad because taking donations is bad" isn't a real explanation.

 

[Cheesemeister]

People making a living through donations are basically buskers. They do things people find entertaining for money.

Cyberbuskers, eh? YouTube needs more mimes.

 

[nikos]

PayPal is one of the worst services, IMO. I've had to deal with my share of BS of them siding with scamming buyers, etc. Haven't used them in years because of this.

That being said, people under the age of 18 are not eligible to use PayPal, as per their Privacy Policy. Perhaps some of these adolescents can find some kind of loophole to get out of the money they "owe" to PayPal. Probably not, since they're at fault for signing up when they weren't supposed to, but you never know.

 

[Astral/H3X]

I find this hilarious.
No, not that anyone is getting charged back or anything.
No what's hilarious is that there are people with the opinion that people who stream for donations as their job, should just suck it up and get a real job, when this is the very foundation of sports, which has more money than could ever be sensible being thrown at it.

Now please, someone walk up to some random sports super star, AND TELL THEM TO GET A REAL JOB.

 

[Auto-Reply]

Despite lurking on gaf for ages and nearly every day at that, I just very recently found out that streaming games and getting donations for non-charity reasons was a thing that exits.

I think it was on a P.T.Teaser video, I was completely flabbergasted by this. This belongs definitely to the things I will not be able to relate to in any way.

 

[Sanpei]

11000$ donation ??

 

[ThatsMytrunks]

If you receive a charitable gift of over a hundred dollars, you should be very, very skeptical. I'm not saying there aren't generous souls out there, but wait a couple months before you spend that load.

Not to mention you should put 25% of that aside for taxes.