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[7threst]

Excellent point. Ubisoft also has the best selling third-party game on Wii U by a long shot, because it isn't a late port. Rayman was clearly wanted.

Smart business isn't treating your customers like shit.

Pretty much this. What was Ubisoft thinking?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Software development(not games). Lots of it. Forced OT at some places, less so at others. As a developer you often feel put-upon, but it's your job to do what the execs plan for. If those plans change, you don't stamp your feet and cry like a child(actually you do, but you save it for your co-workers or wife). You either adapt or you leave if you can't handle the stress of it. I feel for anyone in a position like that where they're forced to ignore family/friends/life to get a product out. It's not fun.



I can. They wouldn't do it if they thought otherwise.

You have a depressing attitude about your work environment. Workers should demand better standards and accountability from management.

Every time I read one of these nightmare stories about dev crunch I want to post a "meanwhile, at Valve..." photo. It doesn't have to be this way. There are countless examples of devs who like their jobs and have transparent relationships with their middle and upper management.

And it's specious to state that just because a company executive made a decision, that it's automatically a good decision. Executives make bone-headed decisions every day in this industry, some of which cost their companies hundreds of millions of dollars. "Ubisoft knows what it's doing" doesn't hold much weight when the last game barely scraped in a profit.

 

[outunderthestars]

Dear Ubisoft,
Fuck you.

Yea, fuck the one developer who made a AAA Wii U exclusive at launch, only to have it tank at retail because Nintendo wasn't able to actually get people to buy consoles.

 

[marc^o^]

Miiverse is a double edge sword. It can be a fantastic markting tool, as a nightmare in a case like this. Ubi communities all have Rayman heated discussions. I posted a message adressing Yves Guillemot in the UPlay board and got 10 Yeahs in few seconds.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

Wow!! Now I'll surely buy it day one in September! Thanks Ubisoft!

 

[Freezie KO]

Miiverse is a double edge sword. It can be a fantastic markting tool, as a nightmare in a case like this. Ubi communities all have Rayman heated discussions. I posted a message adressing Yves Guillemot in the UPlay board and got 6 Yeahs in few seconds.

Yeah, but how many people are actively posting and reading in the Miiverse communities? 3,000 maybe?

 

[flipping_heck]

Yea, fuck the one developer who made a AAA Wii U exclusive at launch, only to have it tank at retail because Nintendo wasn't able to actually get people to buy consoles.

I was going to buy the console when this game was going to out, I believed this was the first true must get game from launch

 

[ugoo18]

Yeah, but how many people are actively posting and reading in the Miiverse communities? 3,000 maybe?

Shouldn't it be significantly more than that, with 2 million+ sold WiiU's then at any given time wouldn't Miiverse have upwards of at the very least 100 to 200,000?

That's more than Rayman Origins could sell in it's entire first month in the US.

EDIT: Also considering how long this has lasted on Miiverse, many more people who went on after the initial news went out would have learned of it as well. Essentially causing a significant ripple effect through at least the Ubisoft related portions of Miiverse. At some point most if not all of Miiverse could find out about this.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

I got an idea. How about give Wii U owners a discount on eShop for the first two weeks of release, maybe for $39.99? That's something for making everyone wait for seven months.

 

[farnham]

Is nintendo moderating the ubi boycott comments?

 

[Mikey Jr.]

HAHAHA!!!!

Holy shit.

Thats some Nostradamus shit right here.

 

[axisofweevils]

Shouldn't it be significantly more than that, with 2 million+ sold WiiU's then at any given time wouldn't Miiverse have upwards of at the very least 100 to 200,000?

That's more than Rayman Origins could sell in it's entire first month in the US.

EDIT: Also considering how long this has lasted on Miiverse, many more people who went on after the initial news went out would have learned of it as well. Essentially causing a ripple effect through at least the Ubisoft related portions of Miiverse.

When I logged in on my Wii U today, the Miis surrounding me in WaraWaraPlaza started saying Anti-Ubi comments. You don't even have to go into the uPlay miiverse comments to see them.

 

[Baconsammy]

You have a depressing attitude about your work environment. Workers should demand better standards and accountability from management.

Every time I read one of these nightmare stories about dev crunch I want to post a "meanwhile, at Valve..." photo. It doesn't have to be this way. There are countless examples of devs who like their jobs and have transparent relationships with their middle and upper management.

And it's specious to state that just because a company executive made a decision, that it's automatically a good decision. Executives make bone-headed decisions every day in this industry, some of which cost their companies hundreds of millions of dollars. "Ubisoft knows what it's doing" doesn't hold much weight when the last game barely scraped in a profit.

Workers should demand a lot of things, and often do. You don't always get what you want. If you don't like it, there's always another place. If you think it's as simple as demanding something and you'll get it, you're naive.

It's even more specious to say that as a gamer I know more than the guy who's run a gaming company for so many years, and is privy to a lot more information than I am. So yes, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt before a gamer on the Internet complaining because he has to wait a few months to play a game. Play something else. If you dont have the time or money to get Legends when it finally releases, wait until you do, and perhaps by then it will be cheaper. Or go on Miiverse and wring your hands really hard. That's another way to go.

Holy shit.

Thats some Nostradamus shit right here.

It was referencing the demo that's been out for about a month.

Miiverse is a double edge sword. It can be a fantastic markting tool, as a nightmare in a case like this. Ubi communities all have Rayman heated discussions. I posted a message adressing Yves Guillemot in the UPlay board and got 10 Yeahs in few seconds.

Who exactly is that a nightmare for?

 

[mclem]

Software development(not games). Lots of it. Forced OT at some places, less so at others. As a developer you often feel put-upon, but it's your job to do what the execs plan for. If those plans change, you don't stamp your feet and cry like a child(actually you do, but you save it for your co-workers or wife). You either adapt or you leave if you can't handle the stress of it. I feel for anyone in a position like that where they're forced to ignore family/friends/life to get a product out. It's not fun.

Mmmm. I wonder if the key distinction is the 'not games' part, because in the games field, it's a *creative* industry. Everyone is ultimately aware they're making an entertainment product. At the code grunt level, all we really wanted to do was make something fun and get it out to people... and it was always irritating when management, publishers or whatever got in the way of that. The OT might be necessary (my personal record was 6AM... and going in to work the following afternoon!), but we didn't do it because it was necessary, we did it because we cared about the product.

What you're describing is absolutely fine for an engineering job, a job where you're always very conscious that you are making a product specifically for a given client for their specifications, and your job is to meet those specifications. The mindset with gaming, though, as far as Joe Grunt Coder is concerned, we're making a game for the end user, not the publisher. Ultimately the publisher calls the final shots, but I've fought many a battle where I firmly believe that what they're asking for is detrimental to the end-user experience. Admittedly often without much success, but you have to fight, because when you win a small battle, you know you've done right by the people who really matter.

(A small aside, but notable given recent news: On Sniper Elite on the original Xbox, you can play multiplayer internationally between the US and the EU. That's something I'm quite happy to take full credit for, and I have to admit I took risks to do so. Sometimes, the battles are worth it.)

Now, there's certainly an argument that the games industry is shifting towards the cold, mechanical, "make what you're told and shut up" process, but I do hope you won't claim that that's a good thing!

 

[MikeE21286]

So funny and pathetic. At least they are trying I guess.

 

[mclem]

Is nintendo moderating the ubi boycott comments?

The explicitly obscene and offensive ones, yes. The ones that are just critical, though, seem to be surviving.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

so they are going to stick to their guns they already poisoned the well should just leave it alone

not sure a demo changes the feelings of pissed off people who were waiting for the end of the month release

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Workers should demand a lot of things, and often do. You don't always get what you want. If you don't like it, there's always another place. If you think it's as simple as demanding something and you'll get it, you're naive.

It's even more specious to say that as a gamer I know more than the guy who's run a gaming company for so many years, and is privy to a lot more information than I am. So yes, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt before a gamer on the Internet complaining because he has to wait a few months to play a game. Play something else. If you dont have the time or money to get Legends when it finally releases, wait until you do, and perhaps by then it will be cheaper. Or go on Miiverse and wring your hands really hard. That's another way to go.



It was referencing the demo that's been out for about a month.




Who exactly is that a nightmare for?

Actually, I'm a 360 only-owner who just discovered that I'm getting a chance to play Rayman in September, and I think it's goofy that Wii U owners have to wait 5 months. And cruel to the devs who had to crunch for months for a deadline that didn't exist, and now have to put out another demo and two ports in what they thought was their time off.

 

[Baconsammy]

Mmmm. I wonder if the key distinction is the 'not games' part, because in the games field, it's a *creative* industry. Everyone is ultimately aware they're making an entertainment product. At the code grunt level, all we really wanted to do was make something fun and get it out to people... and it was always irritating when management, publishers or whatever got in the way of that. The OT might be necessary (my personal record was 6AM... and going in to work the following afternoon!), but we didn't do it because it was necessary, we did it because we cared about the product.

What you're describing is absolutely fine for an engineering job, a job where you're always very conscious that you are making a product specifically for a given client for their specifications, and your job is to meet those specifications. The mindset with gaming, though, as far as Joe Grunt Coder is concerned, we're making a game for the end user, not the publisher. Ultimately the publisher calls the final shots, but I've fought many a battle where I firmly believe that what they're asking for is detrimental to the end-user experience. Admittedly often without much success, but you have to fight, because when you win a small battle, you know you've done right by the people who really matter.

(A small aside, but notable given recent news: On Sniper Elite on the original Xbox, you can play multiplayer internationally between the US and the EU. That's something I'm quite happy to take full credit for, and I have to admit I took risks to do so. Sometimes, the battles are worth it.)

Now, there's certainly an argument that the games industry is shifting towards the latter process, but I do hope you won't claim that that's a good thing!

Fighting battles with publishers/directors during the development phase is normal. You win some, you lose some. Devs are the wrong people to call the shots on the business end though. Or public relations. I understand completely why the developers would hate this decision given the constraints they were put under, but ultimately what's best for them is what's best for the game, and people with more intimate knowledge of the business environment decided this was best. If they can't deal with that, it's time to start their own business and start calling their own shots. If they're successful, they'll end up hiring a bunch of people who they will give directives to and who they will one day possibly piss off with a business decision of their own

Actually, I'm a 360 only-owner who just discovered that I'm getting a chance to play Rayman in September, and I think it's goofy that Wii U owners have to wait 5 months. And cruel to the devs who had to crunch for months for a deadline that didn't exist, and now have to put out another demo and two ports in what they thought was their time off.

I apologize for wording it that way. The miiverse comment was more general than specific. As for not getting any time off, how much time do you think developers get off when a project finishes? And do you know for a fact that these folks aren't getting that time?

 

[-PXG-]

They really don't have a fucking clue. So let's make more work and add on more unnecessary crunch time for the devs

 

[Norse360]

From the EG article:

"There are no issues with the game development," said Ubisoft public relations specialist Sarah Irvin in a statement to Digital Spy. "The only reason for the delay is to release on multiple platforms."

Amazing, they're not even trying to hide the incredible truth....

 

[?oe?oe]

I walk into a shop and I see this amazing blue jacket. I ask the salesgirl if I could try it. She happily hands me over the jacket.

"Wow, this is really comfy! Can you put it aside for me and I'll buy it tomorrow for the sale?" I ask.

"Sure" She replies "This one is getting a lot of attention"

"Thanks, I'll see you tomorrow!"

I come back the next day. And ask the same girl for the blue jacket.

"Oh, I'm sorry we're not going to be selling it right now. You see, they want to make a green and red one as well, so it's going to take awhile" She explains.

"But, it was in the catalogue, you put it aside for me"

"I understand. We want to give customers a fair choice on what colour to choose. Plus, it's more of a summer top"

"It's heavy jacket...'

"Please still consider buying the blue jacket when it is in stores in seven months. In the meantime, you may be able to try on the blue one again in a month or two"

"Can I buy it then?"

"No"

 

[Smiles and Cries]

checks Miiverse, yeah new Exclusive Deme bribe is working wonders

 

[mclem]

I understand completely why the developers would hate this decision given the constraints they were put under, but ultimately what's best for them is what's best for the game, and people with more intimate knowledge of the business environment decided this was best.

It's not, however, what's best for the consumer. Forgive me for being a starry-eyed idealist, but when I entered the industry I actually gave a shit about what was best for them.

You're asserting that this is a valid business decision; we'll see about that, but it's certainly a decision that they have every right to make. The issue is that even though it's a valid business decision, it's still a decision that hurts their consumers.

 

[Norse360]

Why release a game in Feb. when you can release it when the competition is really f'ing hard?

 

[KingSnake]

checks Miiverse, yeah new Exclusive Deme bribe is working wonders

The number of comments on the FB page is growing almost twice as fast for the Exclusive Demo post than for the delay post from yesterday. It took only 5 hours to reach almost 1000. Everything is under control. )

 

[Smiles and Cries]

The number of comments on the FB page is growing almost twice as fast for the Exclusive Demo post than for the delay post from yesterday. It took only 5 hours to reach almost 1000. Everything is under control. )

seriously though I bet they do take this as a positive to get that much a reaction.

I bet the game would sell even more now if they somehow kept the Feb.26 date for Wii U with so much attention that it has gained Ubisoft would look like good guys who listen to fans.

But carrying on with promised "Exclusive Demo" will be very interesting lol

 

[Baconsammy]

It's not, however, what's best for the consumer. Forgive me for being a starry-eyed idealist, but when I entered the industry I actually gave a shit about what was best for them.

It's what's best for the company. And while the few people who own a Wii U that intended to buy the game in Feb might feel disenfranchised, many many more gamers were probably thrilled to be getting the game on other platforms. Be an idealist all you want, that's not always a bad thing, but we just had another big development house dumped today. So I'd rather they do what they think is best for the health of the company, even if that means a handful of Miiverse meltdowns. At least they're confined to a place where no one will ever see it.

 

[guek]

seriously though I bet they do take this as a positive to get that much a reaction.

I bet the game would sell even more now if they somehow kept the Feb.26 date for Wii U with so much attention that it has gained Ubisoft would look like good guys who listen to fans.

But carrying on with promised "Exclusive Demo" will be very interesting lol

This is what I've been saying! This could amount to so much viral marketing if only they'd flip it.

 

[Morts]

How often do "Popular Posts" on Miiverse update? They're the same as they were yesterday for the UPlay community.

 

[KingSnake]

This is what I've been saying! This could amount to so much viral marketing if only they'd flip it.

I agree with you. It would transform Ubisoft in a "human" company and give a boost to the Wii U sales after all this noise. But I would not bet on this, we have in the other thread an example of how the people in the industry are thinking.

 

[Rvaisse]

Now we only have to wait before this free exlusive demo turns out to be a free2play game!

I could almost bet it will be on my smartphone before my WiiU :-/

 

[mclem]

This is what I've been saying! This could amount to so much viral marketing if only they'd flip it.

I sometimes wonder if Project Rainfall was an incredibly bold viral marketing stunt.

 

[Calamari41]

You guys are getting the restaurant analogy wrong. This is like a nice restaurant inviting you in for a private tasting, telling you not to eat all day because it is going to be so delicious. Then when you get in and sit down they tell you to wait a half hour more. Then they come back and tell you that you need to wait for three hours because the owner invited his friends to come just now. Your food is right there ready for you to eat, but he wants to serve them at the same time.

Well screw that, I'm going home.

 

[walking fiend]

Pretty much this. What was Ubisoft thinking?

Do you think anyone here who is complaining is working as a ubisoft shareholder to benefit in anyway from what Ubisoft has done?

It's absolutely mind baffling that people take the company apologist stand up to a point that think people are being unreasonable when a company has fucked them over for the company's benefit.

Why should anyone who is in his/her right mind put a companies benefit above their own?

 

[?oe?oe]

It's what's best for the company.

We can never be too sure. It's just a business decision. It can succeed or fall flat on its face, as with many decisions businesses of all industries around the world face. There are pros and cons to every situation. We know you understand and support Ubi's decision, but some other companies would not have taken that path. Ubisoft's decision is NOT the only way to go about the situation to get the best out of the company. You're not right, I'm not right. There are reasons why one thing works against another and visa-versa.

 

[Linkup]

They were likely already preparing a demo to keep the game on Wii U owners minds.

 

[mclem]

It's what's best for the company.

Well, the businessman in his suit and tie *thinks* it is, certainly. I'm not convinced, but we'll see.

And while the few people who own a Wii U that intended to buy the game in Feb might feel disenfranchised, many many more gamers were probably thrilled to be getting the game on other platforms.

The same effect could have been achieved by making it multi-platform all along, of course, and that way wouldn't have had the cycle of building up hope then taking it away.

Be an idealist all you want, that's not always a bad thing, but we just had another big development house dumped today.

Yes, and that's a shame, but the reasons for that seem to be pretty far removed from this sort of thing.

At least they're confined to a place where no one will ever see it.

I was hoping you were better than this. Goodnight.

 

[test_account]

That is cool, WiiU owners getting another free sample of the game early on Sucks about the delay though, but i cant really complain about getting a 2nd free demo.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

This is what I've been saying! This could amount to so much viral marketing if only they'd flip it.

Yeah I wonder how smart the Top suits are at this point... Maybe they think they are big enough and the HD twin fans will be enough. Regardless someday they will screw another group over for money people will remember.

That is cool, WiiU owners getting another free sample of the game early on Sucks about the delay though, but i cant really complain about getting a 2nd free demo.

Ubisoft should hire a group of viral workers to post this all over the net

sounds so agreeable lol

 

[test_account]

Ubisoft should hire a group of viral workers to post this all over the net

sounds so agreeable lol

As i mentioned, it sucks about the delay, but personally i cant see the reason to complain about getting a free demo. Complain about the delay and all that, but complaining about getting another demo? For what reason?

 

[Conrad Link]

The fact that they aren't even trying to hide or BS their way through the whole 'Wii U one is done its just delayed so they can all launch together' is the worst. :|

For once it would be the others getting the LOL-late-port but nope everyone has to suffer the wait together when the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[Skyzard]

Anyone considered that Nintendo failed Ubisoft by not getting the userbase they predicted?

Hopefully the demo won't have limited retries.

 

[clay_ghost]

Anyone considered that Nintendo failed Ubisoft by not getting the userbase they predicted?

Hopefully the demo won't have limited retries.

Any examples or reason how Nintendo did that?

 

[FSLink]

Better PR? They told us the truth. They acknowledged the game is in fact done. They apologized. They stated exactly why they're doing it, and then they had the nerve to offer us another exclusive demo. What's better PR than that? Lying through their teeth and giving you some easy-to-believe sob story about something going terribly wrong during development, thus necessitating the extra months to correct? I'm shocked at how honest they're being. Makes me respect them a little more. Especially on yet another day when another major development house gets shut down.

No, I didn't imply that would be better PR. I'm saying that the damage control with an exclusive demo is seriously laughable in concept. I do think their PR is doing the best they can with a crappy situation. Please do not think I think that lying would be a better course.

It's what's best for the company.

Not sure if the negative press + having to fight the late 2013 releases would be best. So I heavily disagree.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

As i mentioned, it sucks about the delay, but personally i cant see the reason to complain about getting a free demo. Complain about the delay and all that, but complaining about getting another demo? For what reason?

We complain because it is insulting... even if some people love free stuff and just giving them free stuff is enough to shut them up does not mean everyone else is that easy to brush off, not everyone is that naive or care free about things

 

[test_account]

Not sure if the negative press + having to fight the late 2013 releases would be best. So I heavily disagree.

About the negative press, all of this is probably "forgotten" in a month or two, and people who have interest in the game will end up getting it anyway. I also wonder what weighs the most, the WiiU version getting delayed (something negative) or that it is also coming to PS3 and Xbox 360 (something positive).

 

[Skiesofwonder]

Ubisoft should release the game digitally on the eShop for a month (February 26th to March 26th), and that way the hardcore fans that care can get the game when they were promised it, Ubisoft doesn't have to ship retail copies/advertise the game twice, and the Rayman Legend retail version will be out just in time for the holidays.

 

[Nairume]

As i mentioned, it sucks about the delay, but personally i cant see the reason to complain about getting a free demo. Complain about the delay and all that, but complaining about getting another demo? For what reason?

For what it's worth, the dev that spoke out about their thoughts on the delay/port mentioned that Ubisoft constantly having them work on new demos for the game was one of the reasons they had to go on a massive crunch to finish it. That they are going to have to waste time making another demo while also redesigning a new version of the game and porting it to two other platforms is probably worth them getting to complain about it.

Probably also worth it enough for gamers to complain about it, since it means the PS3/360 ports are more likely going to be that much more rushed out the door in time for September.

 

[Fox_Mulder]

I like demos