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[tomtom94]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...witter-plea-for-passengers-to-strike-back-at/

It probably seemed like a good idea at the time. Southern Railway this morning asked passengers facing 14 more days of strikes to describe how industrial action makes them feel.

But the train operator's attempt to gain Twitter users' support during the long-running trade union dispute appeared to have backfired when it sparked a backlash from commuters.

At the height of the Monday morning rush-hour, it used the social network to ask followers to send messages to the Rail, Maritime and Transport union (RMT) to "tell them how rail strikes make you feel".

But the tweet, with an image headlined "Let's Strike Back", prompted an angry response from dozens of customers - who face five more blocks of strike action from next month.

Replying to the hashtag the firm suggested, #southernbackontrack, many criticised the firm over its handling of the dispute about the role of conductors and its service in general.

There's more at the link about how they're planning on changing the service (which I can't really wrap my head around), but to give a little bit of context:

People in Britain hate the trains because they're pretty much all without exception absolutely terrible, largely because (rather like everything in this country) they got privatised in the 80s and therefore they are all sold off to the lowest bidder. Southern Rail are extraordinarily unpopular even by the low standards of train companies, to the extent where re-nationalising the line has actually been floated as a genuine suggestion rather than a pipe dream. This has been rumbling all summer with the RMT threatening strikes and Southern Rail doing their best Jeremy Hunt impression, and now here we are.

 

[Morat]

It's amazing how far their heads must be up their arses to think that there is public goodwill for Southern

 

[scotcheggz]

Southern are a total mess. I live in Brighton and spent 8 weeks during the summer commuting to London every week day. I feel so sorry for people who do that as a career. Turning up every day to see cancelled trains was a fucking nightmare and I used a line which was *reasonably* unaffected compared to some. Only had to pay £600 a month for that privilege.

The people running it deserve all the shit they get.

 

[Slayven]

Yeah if you are part of fucking up a person's day, asking for help should be the last thing you do

 

[Dougald]

Southern are the goddamn worst, even 10 years ago when I had to use them as a connection to get between my parents and University. I suppose its easier for them to blame unions while enjoying their government-granted monopoly on train travel than actually have management do anything about it though

 

[liquidtmd]

Southern are a total mess. I live in Brighton and spent 8 weeks during the summer commuting to London every week day. I feel so sorry for people who do that as a career. Turning up every day to see cancelled trains was a fucking nightmare and I used a line which was *reasonably* unaffected compared to some. Only had to pay £600 a month for that privilege.

The people running it deserve all the shit they get.

Yep. Commuting on train to London is daylight robbery for often delayed, crammed services. Fuck them.

 

[Acorn]

Lol how can they not see how that'd backfire?

 

[Dingens]

maybe the gov should privatize unions too. I'm sure that will work

 

[G.ZZZ]

The magic of competition and privatization! Everything works better!

 

[War Peaceman]

The magic of competition and privatization! Everything works better!

Privatisation would probably be a lot better if there was any real competition in trains. The infrastructure in most places doesn't allow for it. I read a great article a few years back about Japanese rail infrastructure allows for competing train services and it keeps the standards and prices affordable and good quality.

 

[Jonnax]

Also the best rail system in the UK is Transport for London. A public rail service that invests all profits back into the network.

The difference between a TFL rail train and any other operator is shocking.

 

[shaneskim]

Also the best rail system in the UK is Transport for London. A public rail service that invests all profits back into the network.

The difference between a TFL rail train and any other operator is shocking.

East coast generated a surplus of £200m before it was needlessly handed over to Virgin.

Well played David!

 

[Ravensmash]

Also the best rail system in the UK is Transport for London. A public rail service that invests all profits back into the network.

The difference between a TFL rail train and any other operator is shocking.

Yep.

Southern are renowned for being shite, along with the other services owned and ran by GTR.

Wonder how much they spent on all the advertising of this in the free papers today too.

 

[Plasma]

The train companies in this country are a joke that have nothing but contempt for their customers.

 

[batbeg]

I moved away from the UK 7 years ago, so it's good to know Southern are still shit.

 

[slider]

The trains and associated infrastructure are shit and, to my mind, feel incredibly antiquated.

I remember early on in this dispute talk about "unprecedented levels of sick leave". Was that a deliberate tactic? Is it still ongoing? Was just struck how odd a headline it was and how, having been reported for at least a couple of weeks, it just stopped.

 

[CyclopsRock]

The RMT are entirely wrong on this issue. I know it's their job to thoughtlessly try to protect jobs irrespective of how unjustifiable it is, but it's such a ludicrous position that they're taking.

 

[Walshicus]

Full support to the RMT. This is just another fine example of private rail ownership being unfit for purpose. It's impossible to get around the inherent inefficiency of the market and the sooner we renationalise the better.

I remember early on in this dispute talk about "unprecedented levels of sick leave".

It was mostly bullshit and a cover for SR refusing the overtime that had previously been needed to actually compensate for their systemic staff shortages. I've been stuck at Barnham too many times with staff *wanting* to go onward but told not to by central...

 

[Messofanego]

Fuuuuuuuck Southern Railway! Have to use it for work, live in Surrey, and it's the worst. Weekends especially, and I work quite a bit then. I wish it would get taken over by some other body like TFL.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Full support to the RMT.

Out of habit, out of dislike for Southern, out of dislike for privatisation in general or because you actually think there should be a person whose job it is to press the big door button?

 

[Walshicus]

Out of habit, out of dislike for Southern, out of dislike for privatisation in general or because you actually think there should be a person whose job it is to press the big door button?

Because I think it's pretty obviously dangerous to rely on a single staff member running a train with potentially hundreds of people on board.

 

[slider]

Fuuuuuuuck Southern Railway! Have to use it for work, live in Surrey, and it's the worst. Weekends especially, and I work quite a bit then. I wish it would get taken over by some other body like TFL.

SWT, baby. Although, TBH, they can be pretty patchy too.

Do any of the suburban operators not have conductors? SWT do but I'm pretty sure that some (all?) trains out of Liverpool Street don't.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Because I think it's pretty obviously dangerous to rely on a single staff member running a train with potentially hundreds of people on board.

Don't loads and loads of other train operators do exactly that? In fact I'm sitting on the Cambridge to Kings Cross Great Northern service right now and I'm 99% sure the only staff member on board is the guy "driving" the train. There was an RMT guy on LBC the other week claiming that the door guys get special training to recognise suspect packages, so apparently they also fulfil an anti-terrorist role too. Woo.

 

[Glass]

Another Brighton resident here, when I saw the ad in yesterday's Metro I really hoped the social media aspect would blow up in their face, glad the Internet didn't let us down.

 

[Snarfington]

Brighton area, commute there every day. Its literally a 15 minute journey but it often takes 35-45 minutes due to delays. Fuck Southern.

I was on a train the other day that got cancelled because the driver-only equipment was faulty. The very equipment they want to use to replace staff that's causing all the strikes. It's just so terrible, you can't rely on it at all.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Lol I guessed in my head that it would be southern before coming in, shows how shitty they must be.

They are terrible though, constantly delaying trains, Cancellations, clearly made up excuses for why this happens (one train breaks down, next scheduled train is cancelled due to short staff).

The government need to take their contract away like they have threatened to since its clear they can't do the job.

 

[Jezbollah]

Southern Railways. Latin for Turbomongs.

 

[darkace]

The magic of competition and privatization! Everything works better!

Given they're a government granted monopoly and infrastructure like train lines is extraordinarily difficult to properly regulate, I'm not sure privatisation has anything to do with it.

Japan has a very well-run private system.

 

[SweetDonuts]

Use them everyday to get to London Bridge and yeah, they suck.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

Privatisation would probably be a lot better if there was any real competition in trains. The infrastructure in most places doesn't allow for it. I read a great article a few years back about Japanese rail infrastructure allows for competing train services and it keeps the standards and prices affordable and good quality.

I've always thought privatising railways is a weird thing. Like there's literal tracks they have to follow, and you can't have 2 companies doing the same route concurrently. You can only have so many journeys with so many permutations going on right, and then storing trains has to be a massive arse for the inbetween. Plus I always get my tickets from the Trainline.com so the operator doesn't even come into play, and even then, I don't think I know anyone at all if prioritises the operator over the journey itself.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I've always thought privatising railways is a weird thing. Like there's literal tracks they have to follow, and you can't have 2 companies doing the same route concurrently. You can only have so many journeys with so many permutations going on right, and then storing trains has to be a massive arse for the inbetween. Plus I always get my tickets from the Trainline.com so the operator doesn't even come into play, and even then, I don't think I know anyone at all if prioritises the operator over the journey itself.

There's more to competition than just choosing between two providers. Firstly they're competing against other forms of transport (for example flying from London to Edinburgh, or London to Paris vs the trains). But also the "competition" happens during the rendering process. A bunch of different companies compete to run the service, each trying to offer the best package. You might not choose which operator to use, but that doesn't mean there's been no competition.

How well this system works is debatable, but that's the idea anyway.

 

[uncleniccius]

Honestly the rail system in this country is a joke full stop.

Poor service and more expensive than elsewhere. When I was in China I got a one hour bullet train for cheaper than a train from Bristol to Cardiff. I get that there are a range of factors causing this but still a joke.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Privatisation would probably be a lot better if there was any real competition in trains. The infrastructure in most places doesn't allow for it. I read a great article a few years back about Japanese rail infrastructure allows for competing train services and it keeps the standards and prices affordable and good quality.

Well the Hitachi fleet comes in next year, so let's see how their Japanese management skills deal with the different companies.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

There's more to competition than just choosing between two providers. Firstly they're competing against other forms of transport (for example flying from London to Edinburgh, or London to Paris vs the trains). But also the "competition" happens during the rendering process. A bunch of different companies compete to run the service, each trying to offer the best package. You might not choose which operator to use, but that doesn't mean there's been no competition.

How well this system works is debatable, but that's the idea anyway.

The choice aspect is something I forgot as a dude without a car. The bidding process is still a race to the bottom in terms of cost though isn't it? I have to wonder what the terms are if they let their standards slip...

 

[CyclopsRock]

The choice aspect is something I forgot as a dude without a car. The bidding process is still a race to the bottom in terms of cost though isn't it? I have to wonder what the terms are if they let their standards slip...

Well that's basically the problem. If the companies were properly held to account then the system would probably work better. But the bids (I meant to say tendering up there, not rendering!) have more involved than just cost; they also have various promises of investing in infrastructure (rolling stock etc).

Then you have extra complications because the railway companies aren't responsible for the actual rail infrastructure, so when a train is cancelled or delayed due to a signal failure, that's actually not the train companies fault, but for most commuters a delay is a delay. This is especially bad in some places like South London where Thameslink is; it's a patchwork of 150 year old railways that were never meant to interact, but now they do. As such, one problem on one line fucks a bunch more in a way that should never happen if it had been designed today. But these are busy routes so you can't simply rip it out and start again. This sort of problem would still be the same in a nationalised system.

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

Been about 4 months now that my train to work only runs on Weekends. Even that 20Mil cash injection from the Government didn't get them to hire any more staff. I fully support the strikes against this joke of a company and after all their lies against their own staff, it's very enjoyable to see this blow up in their faces.

 

[show me your skeleton]

Well that's basically the problem. If the companies were properly held to account then the system would probably work better. But the bids (I meant to say tendering up there, not rendering!) have more involved than just cost; they also have various promises of investing in infrastructure (rolling stock etc).

Then you have extra complications because the railway companies aren't responsible for the actual rail infrastructure, so when a train is cancelled or delayed due to a signal failure, that's actually not the train companies fault, but for most commuters a delay is a delay. This is especially bad in some places like South London where Thameslink is; it's a patchwork of 150 year old railways that were never meant to interact, but now they do. As such, one problem on one line fucks a bunch more in a way that should never happen if it had been designed today. But these are busy routes so you can't simply rip it out and start again. This sort of problem would still be the same in a nationalised system.

as a guy that deals with openreach on a daily basis, infrastructure fascinstes me. cheers for this insight!

 

[Orbis]

Southern are a disgrace. I travel on the London Euston to Birmingham New Street line using London Midland and the trains are basically always on time and have been for the last 4 years I've used them (bar a couple of rocky patches). Yeah there will be the occasional disruption outside of their control like signal failures, but even they are relatively rare.

Also the staff on London Midland always seem far happier than those on Southern so I can only conclude that management are making them feel like shit.

 

[Aeriscloud]

Don't loads and loads of other train operators do exactly that? In fact I'm sitting on the Cambridge to Kings Cross Great Northern service right now and I'm 99% sure the only staff member on board is the guy "driving" the train. There was an RMT guy on LBC the other week claiming that the door guys get special training to recognise suspect packages, so apparently they also fulfil an anti-terrorist role too. Woo.

I can promise you that the conductor (door guy) does a hell of a lot more than you think. It isn't just press the button to open and close the doors. Unless things are entirely different in the UK than they are in the US.

Edit : Then again, I'm thinking of subway trains, sorry.

 

[Doikor]

I can promise you that the conductor (door guy) does a hell of a lot more than you think. It isn't just press the button to open and close the doors. Unless things are entirely different in the UK than they are in the US.

Edit : Then again, I'm thinking of subway trains, sorry.

Just a quick googling about the common duties of a conductor:

Making sure the train stays on schedule
Ensuring that any cars and cargo are picked up and dropped off properly
Completing en-route paperwork
Ensuring the train follows applicable safety rules and practices
Controlling the train's movement while operating in reverse
Coupling or uncoupling cars
Assisting with setting out or picking up of rolling stock
Carrying out running repairs
Ticket collection and other customer service duties
Opening and closing train doors

Though which ones of those fall on the conductor depend on the country/company I guess.

And a lot of work has been put into "one-man operation" trains.

 

[CyclopsRock]

But loads ARE one man. I've never seen a staff member of my train in about 18 months of commuting from my current home, and the driver just sticks his head out of the window to see if anyone's still getting on. The door guy can only be on one carriage at a time anyway, so I don't really understand the safety argument either. Tube trains run with one person, and the DLR only have the wizened key master as a concession to unions.

 

[Slacka]

I can promise you that the conductor (door guy) does a hell of a lot more than you think. It isn't just press the button to open and close the doors. Unless things are entirely different in the UK than they are in the US.

Exactly this. People actually supporting Southern Rail on this probably dont realise how many absolute garbage very old stations built on bends or with wide gaps to the platform and such there are on southern lines where these driver operated systems simply cant give full coverage for safe operation.


As a resident of Newhaven who works in Hove i am very glad i have a car share agreement so i dont have to use Southern Rail too often with the utterly incompetent management of their lines.

 

[Blue Lou]

People in Britain hate the trains because they're pretty much all without exception absolutely terrible, largely because (rather like everything in this country) they got privatised in the 80s and therefore they are all sold off to the lowest bidder.

Merseyrail are pretty good to be fair. Some Dutch company bought them. Although ironically, they are currently being replaced by a bus service for a few months while the lines have work done. People are usually surprised to learn that there are 5 underground stations in the area.

 

[Abstrusity]

Privatizing public goods is never a good idea.

 

[slider]

What was the union posture like before privatisation?

It's really difficult to judge sat outside with various claims and counter-claims.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Privatizing public goods is never a good idea.

Hohoho, funny joke my friend.

 

[StayDead]

Southern are awful, but Thameslink are not much better. Lots of delays, cancelled trains and overcrowded trains.

I feel sorry for the commuters on Southern. The stories you hear about it makes me almost happy to be stuck with Thameslink and that's saying something.

 

[Ban Puncher]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHu_cfy33bY

 

[MJLord]

Privatizing public goods is never a good idea. Unless you can flog it to your tory mates and get a couple of bob out of it.

FTFY

 

[wetflame]

I knew this was Southern as soon as I saw the thread title. I had to use them every day for work and not one day went by without a delayed or cancelled train. Their attitude stinks too, taking no responsibility for the terrible service they provide. Absolutely incompetent.