yazenov
Member
He said
Nothing about what he said is platform wars. It's just correcting misinformation by PC fanboys whenever they inflate PC relevance and misinformation based on nothing. Now we have actual numbers to counter false claims.
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UK Video Game Market Data 2023(Total Hardware Sales: PS5 1.2m, Switch 720k and Xbox Series 650k)
- Thread starter jm89
- Start date
He said
Nothing about what he said is platform wars. It's just correcting misinformation by PC fanboys whenever they inflate PC relevance and misinformation based on nothing. Now we have actual numbers to counter false claims.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
SO wait, Starfield flopped....but FFXVI didnt?
yazenov
Member
Starfield is supposed to be the game of the generation that will sell like Skyrim in space. Yes, it's a flop looking at the huge decline from the past Bethesda game. It's undeniable that it didn't meet expectations, and that is an understatement.
FF16 sold as expected. It exceeded SE expectations. It's a Jrpg after all. It won't do Skyrim numbers.
Very different circumstances for each game. Also, FF16 is exclusive to PS5 and is yet to be released on PC. Yet Skyrim in space only sold 2k units more than it.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
And you perpetuate this bullshit. You said the following, "PC is a very tiny market in the UK. " Acknowledging that PC market is tiny in the UK but you will use the data to "counter fanboys" who make the claim that PC is a big deal worldwide? Sure lmao. You wanna use the data from a single country to extrapolate to the rest of the world to fight back against fanboys. Newsflash: You're every bit as incorrect as them.
As I said earlier, the game peaked at 527K on Steam and it was a staggered release. 527K is higher than Helldivers 2. I'm sure Hogwarts Legacy flopped worldwide based on the sales data from the UK.
Don't be dishonest and pretend you aren't warring. Be forthright about it.
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Edmund
Member
Poor baby. Lmao.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Love how you guys are getting your ass handed to you by actual arguments but all you got are laughing emojis. Keep at it while I crush your dishonesty.
yazenov
Member
You keep bringing up a peak 527K on Steam, which is irrelevant and meaningless to the discussion here. We have real actual unit sales of the game in the UK.
Hogwarts Legacy only sold 12% of the total sales in the UK on the PC. which is damn minuscule to the overall sales. That is a fact, and no one said we should extrapolate the data for worldwide sales.
Its warring if you want it to be. To me, it's only numbers.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
527K is the peak number of concurrent players worldwide, not just the UK. If the UK is the entire world, you'd have a point, but it isn't. 527K is extremely high and among the best of all time. No game that ever peaked that high flopped.
But that's literally what you're doing. Heisenberg007 said that (paraphrasing), "this is the data that we need to prove that PC fanboys are wrong about PC sales being a big deal" but this is only in the UK. So why would you determine overall sales with just one country and then use that as ownage material against PC fanboys? Do you think publishers only care about sales in the UK?
Which you deliberately misinterpret but hey, don't let the facts fool you.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Relative to expectations, it very likely did. I'm sure SE never anticipated FF XVI to sell 20M+ copies. Bethesda and Microsoft probably did expect Starifled to reach those numbers. Underperforming is a relative term. If some random no-name game without expectations sold as much as Starfield, it'd have been a smash hit.
yazenov
Member
What does that even mean? How much did it sell on PC?
No one said it flopped on PC. Show me a single post that said the game flopped on PC. Selling less than on consoles = flop?
We have tons of posts from PC fanboys claiming that publishers are leaving money on the table by not releasing games on the PC platform on day one, without any proof to back up their claims. I think you should be angry at them for misinformation and "warring" without data rather than
Heisenberg007
. I find it extremely amusing that you are making a mountain out of a molehill, especially now that we have some data (not all data, of course, just the UK).
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
No. The objective is to fight against misinformation and unsubstantiated claims with empirical data.
Why wouldn't you want to thwart misinformation with real-world data?
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Of course.
Starfield, which was supposed to be another massive hit like Elder Scrolls and Fallout, managed on 2 platforms what FF16 did on just 1 platform with a very limited userbase.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
yazenov
Member
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djjinx2
Member
This is known, for a long time known.
Microsoft should not be trying to be number 1 at this point, a change of strategy is needed, then win mind share. Like Nintendo did after Wii U disaster
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
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yazenov
Member
Yep.
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I am sure the FF16 PC sales in the UK will push it past the measly additional 2k sales of the game of the generation
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I am sure the FF16 PC sales in the UK will push it past the measly additional 2k sales of the game of the generation
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
It means that at one point, 527K players around the world were playing at once. Right back at you. How much did it sell on PC? Not just in the UK but in the whole world. Your boy made the claim that the UK sales prove that publishers aren't leaving a lot of money on the table on PC. How do the UK sales prove it? You guys made the claim and used a weak-as-hell argument to back it up. UK sales =/= worldwide sales.
https://steamcharts.com/
10th place has 700K players. 527K concurrent players is A LOT as I mentioned before. It's more than Helldivers II which is considered a smash hit. That it sold 12% in the UK in no way means the number is consistent worldwide so this proves nothing...beyond what it does for the UK.
Yet you agree with the claim that they're not leaving tons of money on PC, do you not? If Hogwarts Legacy didn't make much money on PC, how is it not a flop lol?
Without any proof? Are you joking lol? Sony is porting their games to PC and Microsoft has been doing it for years, clearly, there's money to be had on PC. The split of Helldivers 2 was around 50/50 on PS5 vs PC and according to the latest global report, PC brings in more money than any individual console. Capcom went out and said they'd focus on PC and so on. There's a bigger shift on PC than ever before.We have tons of posts from PC fanboys claiming that publishers are leaving money on the table by not releasing games on the PC platform on day one, without any proof to back up their claims. I think you should be angry at them for misinformation and "warring" without data rather than
I'd say 43% is a pretty huge number, wouldn't you? That's 76% of the entire console market.
Exactly, you have "some data" from a single place but somehow are using it to validate that PC doesn't sell that much worldwide? And you have the nerve to tell me you're just "using facts" please.
No, it isn't. The objective is agenda-driven and very clearly meant to fight against PC fanboys by downplaying the significance of the PC market share. You're incorrectly extrapolating data to use as a "gotcha" moment. You're every bit as bad as the fanboys.
Oh, I love fighting misinformation but not with more misinformation and deliberate misinterpretation of data.
What this proves is that Hogwarts Legacy in the UK on PC only accounts for 12% of the total sales. This proves that Hogwarts Legacy on PC is only a small part of the overall sales in the UK. You went and used that data to prove that people claiming that publishers are leaving a lot of money on PC are wrong as if the UK was the entire world.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
You're arguing against using one big market's data for extrapolation. But at the same time you want to claim that PC software sales are in fact huge without even a single piece of data?It means that at one point, 527K players around the world were playing at once. Right back at you. How much did it sell on PC? Not just in the UK but in the whole world. Your boy made the claim that the UK sales prove that publishers aren't leaving a lot of money on the table on PC. How do the UK sales prove it? You guys made the claim and used a weak-as-hell argument to back it up. UK sales =/= worldwide sales.
https://steamcharts.com/
10th place has 700K players. 527K concurrent players is A LOT as I mentioned before. It's more than Helldivers II which is considered a smash hit. That it sold 12% in the UK in no way means the number is consistent worldwide so this proves nothing...beyond what it does for the UK.
Yet you agree with the claim that they're not leaving tons of money on PC, do you not? If Hogwarts Legacy didn't make much money on PC, how is it not a flop lol?
Without any proof? Are you joking lol? Sony is porting their games to PC and Microsoft has been doing it for years, clearly, there's money to be had on PC. The split of Helldivers 2 was around 50/50 on PS5 vs PC and according to the latest global report, PC brings in more money than any individual console. Capcom went out and said they'd focus on PC and so on. There's a bigger shift on PC than ever before.
I'd say 43% is a pretty huge number, wouldn't you? That's 76% of the entire console market.
Exactly, you have "some data" from a single place but somehow are using it to validate that PC doesn't sell that much worldwide? And you have the nerve to tell me you're just "using facts" please.
No, it isn't. The objective is agenda-driven and very clearly meant to fight against PC fanboys by downplaying the significance of the PC market share. You're incorrectly extrapolating data to use as a "gotcha" moment. You're every bit as bad as the fanboys.
Oh, I love fighting misinformation but not with more misinformation and deliberate misinterpretation of data.
What this proves is that Hogwarts Legacy in the UK on PC only accounts for 12% of the total sales. This proves that Hogwarts Legacy on PC is only a small part of the overall sales in the UK. You went and used that data to prove that people claiming that publishers are leaving a lot of money on PC are wrong as if the UK was the entire world.
It doesn't make any sense to me.
We can stop using UK's data once you are able to present worldwide PC software sales data that goes against this sample. If PC software sales outsell console software sales, at that point, I'll be the first one to champion that.
Until then, we should use the data we have.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I literally linked a chart showing the sales split and revenues.
PC total software sales are higher than any individual console which makes sense given the fact that Steam alone has over 120M monthly active users.
No, we shouldn't. You can use it to interpret what is going on in the UK, not the entire world.
yazenov
Member
I have no idea how much the game sold on PC, but I asked the question since you keep on bringing up the peak number of concurrent players which is meaningless when discussing unit sales, since it's a number unique to Steam. So I assumed you know something I don't regarding units sold on Steam.
With regards to publishers leaving money on the table if their games are not on PC from day one, it depends on the publisher if it's a console manufacturer aka 1st party or 3rd party publishes, and it also depends on the deals the platform holders sign with the 3rd party pubs.
It's a 1st party publisher that has its ecosystem like Sony and Nintendo, and its number one priority is to add value to its hardware and ecosystem by making games exclusive to its platform, as it wants consumers to buy their hardware, and get 30% cut from all games sold on their platform, and 100% cut from selling their games on their platform. In addition to subscriptions, DLC, Microtransactions, and accessories. So if the game is a non-GAAS title, then it doesn't make sense to release their games on PC on day one (check Xbox sales for reference). If it's a Gaas game, then releasing it on the PC on day one makes sense, like Helldivers 2.
If we are talking about 3rd party publishers, it makes sense to release their games on the PC on day one, unless they have deals with the console manufacturers to put their games on their platform 1st as a timed exclusivre. It depends on the deal like free marketing, offsetting initial potential lost sales from PC, fewer platform fees, and so forth.
So the answer to your question isn't a blanket statement, and it depends on the context. And again, your anger should be directed to the people who are spreading misinformation, rather than people having blind faith in their platform without any substantial data.
And BTW, can I get some context on the chart you posted? Does it include a full-package game only? You know, apple-to-apple comparisons.
UK Games Market UKIE Report 2023
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
That number is very much not meaningless because it's among the highest Steam numbers of all time and this was the number of players upon release. We don't have the exact numbers but we simply know that it's very high (since it's like top 50 all time). It was also also number 1 on Steam top sellers for weeks. That alone disproves what Heisenberg was trying to claim.
Agreed.
I don't disagree with this but what does this have to do with Hogwarts Legacy's sales in the UK? We both know the strategy Nintendo has been employing for over 3 decades and Sony has been doing the same but is slowly releasing more games on PC. However, this is a completely different matter. Console manufacturers have to weigh the benefit of more immediate sales vs weakening their ecosystem in the long run.
Yes, it does makes sense for 3rd-party publishers to release their games day 1 on PC, so why are we using a 3rd-party game's sales in the UK to prove that publishers aren't leaving a lot of money on the table by not releasing their games day 1 on PC? That's a bit of a non-sequitur.
My animosity is directed at blatantly misinterpreting data for the sole purpose of console warring. When I called out Heisenberg007 for it, you defended him and pretended he had some more high-minded goal such as, "stating facts" which is false. The objective was transparent from the start. He wanted to use this data to shut up PC fanboys who want 1st-party games day 1 on PC. He wasn't interested in an objective discussion.
If this was purely about the data, he would have been, "I guess Hogwarts legacy on PC isn't a big portion of the total sales in the UK," or something like that but this wasn't the case at all. He went on a completely different tangent.
I'm not even among those who always bitch about wanting console games day 1 on PC. If I want a game enough but it's not on PC, I just get it on the console it's on.
There's the full thread here. The first pie chart is global revenues. The second pie chart is the breakdown of the revenues in the US and the UK. "Premium" for instance is retail games which accounted for 57% of the revenues on consoles in the UK and the US, and 56% of the revenues on PC in the same regions. Overall, the spending is very similar between PC and consoles at least in the UK and US.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Can I ask where this 527K comes from? Steamdb is showing an all time peak of 330K for Starfield.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I’m talking about Hogwarts Legacy.
Yes Starfield flopped, as FFXVI.
yazenov
Member
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
It's sad how afraid some people can be on actual straight-line data
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Because that's the problem.
Mr Moose
Member
What?
It includes Steam, Xbox, PlayStation and 3rd party Nintendo digital info.
The only games without digital splits are Nintendo games.
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Punished Miku
Gold Member
Thick Thighs Save Lives
Gold Member
Funnily enough this is the second time this week where I'm 'famous' lol.
I got a local video game retailer into trouble with their distributor and probably Capcom because I posted on Twitter about some listings for yet-to-be-announced physical re-releases of certain Resident Evil games (the listings were public, btw).
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THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Where does it say that in the physical section?
Woopah
Member
Well it doesn't make sense to give a retail/digital split for a game that isn't available through retail.
Mr Moose
Member
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
So I looked at it a bit more, they have Physical numbers from one source, digital from another. This digial source, "Sparkers" has full sales numbers for all digital games sold from Microsoft and Sony estores? I didn't think either one was happy to provide that info.
I thought all of this stuff was held closely, now all of the sudden we have all of the numbers?
Mr Moose
Member
They are shared with groups like NPD (or whatever they are called now) and others.
Some don't share digital data (Epic/Remedy for AW2 I believe, and Larian with BG3, Nintendo with all of their first party digital games), most do though.