I can't even tell.=O
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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sixteen-bit
Member
I have an old Pioneer analog amp and stereo receiver for my record player and PVM setup. Shit is amazing. Sounds a million times better than TV speakers ever did.
theSlacker
Member
You situation is odd to me since if it was a sync issue wouldn't it have still displayed an image, just an out of sync image, instead of a black screen? Were you able to test out the csync cable on someone else's snes?
Pioneer makes some luscious stuff. I'm rocking some infinity primus speakers and a Denon receiver and it makes old games sound superb.
As much as we obsess over image quality in this forum, sound output has way more of an effect on the overall quality of a videogame experience my humble opinion.
I couldn't agree with you more. I've invested much more into having a quality audio experience than I have into the video side. Not that video isn't important at all. I just feel that when it comes to the A/V portion of the gaming experience its a 60/40 split for most games.
I have no other SNES to test it on, and from what I read later on my SNES just flat out refuses to show anything related to csync. I tried it through a Sync Strike and that didn't work either.
theSlacker
Member
I've gone out of my depth here since I don't know why it would do that. Are you saying you ran your non csync cable though a sync strike it and blacked out the screen as well, or that you ran the csync one though it?
GayForMaster
Banned
Been doing the Xrgb Mini + DVDO Edge combo for the last month, all I can say is that the results are amazing, the Mini handles most of the processing, all the Edge handles is the upscaling from 720P to 1080P when using scanlines and sometimes some Zoom settings to fill out the screen along with splitting the audio using the HDMI Audio output to the AVR.
So far the recommended settings from the Xrgb Wiki have worked nicely.
Here's some shots.
NESRGB - Mini - Edge (In Game Mode) - Panasonic Plasma TC- P50U50 (In Game Mode)
Using the recommended settings from the WIki for 240P sources.
Wii (Via Component at 480i) - Mini - Edge (In Game Mode) - Panasonic Plasma TC- P50U50 (In Game Mode)
Using the recommended settings from the WIki for 480i and Component sources.
I found that the Wii 480P output is really poor and the 480i output delivers better results, the Mini in Video mode does an amazing De- Interlacing and upscaling to 1080P
Cables Used:
SNES JP-21 Cable from Retro_Console_Accessories
OEM Wii Component Cable
Regular HDMI cables from Amazon.
I thought that Majora's Mask was from an N64, damn.
Non sync one worked perfectly!!!
You can tell it's not 240p just by looking at it. I thought it was 480p though. I'm shocked that it's a deinterlaced 480i signal.
Welp, I finally picked up a couple of PVMs.
A PVM-1351Q and a PVM-20M4U(!). Feels good, man...
If I wanted to, say, hook up an SNES to one of these, is there a specific model I should keep an eye out for? I sold my old SNES off years ago to get a Playstation, so I guess I'm in the market for a new one anyway.
A PVM-1351Q and a PVM-20M4U(!). Feels good, man...
If I wanted to, say, hook up an SNES to one of these, is there a specific model I should keep an eye out for? I sold my old SNES off years ago to get a Playstation, so I guess I'm in the market for a new one anyway.
sixteen-bit
Member
1-Chip SNS-001 (1996) is supposed to have better image quality and less pronounced vertical band than earlier models. The SNES Jr. /SNS-101 (mini model from 1997) supposedly has the best image quality, but you need to mod it to output RGB and it's not perfectly compatible with all games from what I hear.
Huggers
Member
I don't think it is wihtout modding
No-he is correct. The 1-chip is ready to go with out additional modding. Only the mini/jr needs a mod for rgb and svideo. If you are so inclined, you can add an amp to the 1-chip and get an image that is arguably slightly better than the mini. The difference is minor, however.
Yes-the 1-chips were released later towards the end of the snes life span. I definitelty reccomend searching for one. There are some sites that can point you in the right direction on how to spot one. Just google it.
Huggers
Member
Ah I think I'm getting my Snes's muddled up perhaps
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I believe that the last round of 1CHIP SNESes had RGB wired up but not c-sync.
That could be my model because it does rgb but not csync at all, only cvideo.
What does this mean?
Also, like I asked above, does the year matter at all for the 1-CHIPs? I see some 1995s on eBay.
Always wondered that too. I got my SNES Christmas of 94 with the Mario Set (Mario All-Stars + World Cart). Would this possibly be a 1-Chip? I attempted to take it apart, but my bit won't reach that far down and I don't want to risk stripping the screws either. 
Reset button is embossed too.
Probably hard to tell with these crappy pics. I should take some time later and unpack it and do some new screenshots with a better phone camera this time.
Also worked with this cable.
Reset button is embossed too.
Probably hard to tell with these crappy pics. I should take some time later and unpack it and do some new screenshots with a better phone camera this time.
Also worked with this cable.
theSlacker
Member
I think it is more just how bad every other option for the Genesis/Mega Drive is. It defiantly has the biggest upgrade over itself switching from not RGB to RGB of any system that I've seen. It is also what I use to show off the power of RGB because of that.
Huggers
Member
I don't know if this is cable related but my Mega Drive looks better on my bvm than the Snes. Very noticeable
BONKERS
Member
I don't know if any of you knew this before.
But using the PSPGO(or 3000 probably) with component cables and it set to 4:3 and interlaced on a CRT, you CAN get 240p output for PS1 games!
They seem to look every bit as good as on the real thing aside from this 1px wide or so line of garbage on the right hand side here and there. (Seems to be with every game tested so far). Viewing the software manual will switch to 480i and once you go back in game it will swap back to 240p
I had wondered about this for a long time since there are many games on PSN that are expensive for physical copies.And/or rarer. (Like the Mega Man 1-6 PS1 versions!) I really didn't like playing in 480i on PS3 and playing on an LCD just doesn't look all that great to me. So I finally tried my luck and bought a cradle+component cables. Using a PS3 controller works wonderful as well. There isn't any noticeable latency (Probably at least 1/2 a frame from BT)whatsoever.
I'd take some pictures. But my camera is dead ATM and i'm lazy
But using the PSPGO(or 3000 probably) with component cables and it set to 4:3 and interlaced on a CRT, you CAN get 240p output for PS1 games!
They seem to look every bit as good as on the real thing aside from this 1px wide or so line of garbage on the right hand side here and there. (Seems to be with every game tested so far). Viewing the software manual will switch to 480i and once you go back in game it will swap back to 240p
I had wondered about this for a long time since there are many games on PSN that are expensive for physical copies.And/or rarer. (Like the Mega Man 1-6 PS1 versions!) I really didn't like playing in 480i on PS3 and playing on an LCD just doesn't look all that great to me. So I finally tried my luck and bought a cradle+component cables. Using a PS3 controller works wonderful as well. There isn't any noticeable latency (Probably at least 1/2 a frame from BT)whatsoever.
I'd take some pictures. But my camera is dead ATM and i'm lazy
PS1 RGB output is as clean as Genesis in my opinion.
sixteen-bit
Member
Yeah, SNES RGB is definitely on the soft side compared to Gen/MD.
Darn. Oh well, can't complain with its current picture output till I see a 1-chip/modded SNES Jr. in person I guess. ^_^;
How did you figure this was happening? I figured it was outputting in 480i, but if it really is outputting in 240p, this is great news! I have a PSP-3000 myself and compared versions of Mega/Rock Man X4 from PSP & PS1 (via PS2 Component & RGB) sometime last year. Should have threw in my Saturn Rockman X4 just for ha has, but I'm lazy (everything is packed away).
PSP-3000 (Component):
PS1 (PS2 RGB)
PS1 (PS2 Component)
Me, and it's fantastic, one of my fav capture cards ever, does RGB very well and is worth the money.
Thanks. I had read it's good since it's basically the Micomsoft card, but have also read it's not as good as the Micomsoft card so wonder if it's be worth saving for that instead (it's pretty pricey though, I can get the PEXHDCAP here for $135 USD shipped from Amazon - not sure if that's a good price or not though as it isn't sold here in NZ).
For RGB do you use it with something like a Sync Strike?
Actually that's a pretty good price, a little more than what I paid. Only thing missing from PEXHDCAP is no 1080p support and no composite and no svideo support(unless you use a converter like XRGB Mini or something), otherwise it does pretty much everything for nearly all consoles. If you save up for a better Micomsoft for the missing features I listed from the PEXHDCAP then that would be worth the wait.
And I use a Sync Strike to get scart to vga and hook it directly to the capture card as it can detect 15khz, which is extremely rare for a capture card as I only know that Micomsoft/Startech cards can do it.
IrishNinja
Member
a very generous buddy sent this pic over & says it's mine when i can go pick it up...not sure what all i'll need for these SCART cables but it's gonna be really cool having all 3 options!
#TeamXRGB
#TeamCRT
#TeamPVM
#TeamGetOnMyLevelSon
Thanks for that; appreciate your thoughts. I guess 1080p would be nice for capturing new systems but I'm not interested in capturing in composite or svideo. Although it says 1080p in the Amazon title I read it's not at 60fps which is what people are complaining about. How many modern games run at 60fps now though? Lol.
Oh and since I changed the shipping to the lowest it's now at $126! Might have to hit you up with some questions about the Sync Strike too as I haven't used anything like that before, no clue what I'd be doing with that!
Looks familiar, nice!
BONKERS
Member
Yeah, I need to charge my camera and take some pictures.
In the home menu, when in 240p mode it will look very distinctly low res. Once you view the manual it switches to 480i and looks way different. And I get 0 flickering with the flicker filter off. Typically 480i games flicker a ton on my TV so that's one dead give away. I might have to make an eboot of my Ehrgiez disc, because in RPG mode I think it runs interlaced at 60FPS
Nice!
So, Im debating whether or not to keep my crt now that I have a pvm and a xrgb. Its a 27" magnvox and the picture is ok, not great. How easy isit to connect a guncon to a pvm?
I live in Europe and have a Japanese Saturn that I'd like to get a SCART cable for. I'm not entirely sure what I need to get, and I feel like I should be entirely sure as apparently the wrong cable between a Saturn and a TV can damage the TV.
I've looked at options from Retro Gaming Cables as well as retro_console_accessories on eBay, and while it seems like they both have cables that I think might work, the descriptions are rather vague, or contain what seems like conflicting information.
Is there a recommended way to hook a Japanese Saturn up that is absolutely guaranteed to not set my European TV and house on fire?
I've looked at options from Retro Gaming Cables as well as retro_console_accessories on eBay, and while it seems like they both have cables that I think might work, the descriptions are rather vague, or contain what seems like conflicting information.
Is there a recommended way to hook a Japanese Saturn up that is absolutely guaranteed to not set my European TV and house on fire?
Moor-Angol
Banned
I have a J-NTSC Saturn since 2004 and it was always hooked up to a Panasonic CRT with RGB cable bought on ebay and i never had a problem (TV was a multi standard pal one, of course)
the only problem is if you own an upscaler like Framemeister so you need a 21pin jpn cable, cause pal and jpn RGB cables have different pin connections (this is valid for XRGB3, maybe not for Mini, but i'm not 100% sure)
Yesterday I bought a PS2 which I will use for both PS1 and PS2 games.
Considering I use a Framemeister Mini and actually I only have the classic A/V cable, what should I buy to strike a good balance between 240 and 480i games?
I would like to not go with RGB cause I already use it for Saturn, so it could be a choice between component and D-terminal (Mini has just the latter as output)
GayForMaster
Banned
So has anyone here tried to produce good PSP tv out quality?
I'm running PSPgo component into my Sony PVM 20L5 and the quality is fucking amazing... so much better than the washed out visuals it produces on my HDTV. This crt is seriously magical. The images kinda suck since my phone camera quality is ass but it seriously looks amazing. Paired up along with my PS3 controller I'll be able to enjoy Persona 1 and 2 until P5 comes out (and other PSP gems as well of course). I just kinda wish there was a way to stretch out the image more but I can't find anyway to do that. It fills the screen up on the XMB but in game mode it cuts the size quite a bit. The size isn't bad but I wouldn't mind stretching it to fill.
I'm running PSPgo component into my Sony PVM 20L5 and the quality is fucking amazing... so much better than the washed out visuals it produces on my HDTV. This crt is seriously magical. The images kinda suck since my phone camera quality is ass but it seriously looks amazing. Paired up along with my PS3 controller I'll be able to enjoy Persona 1 and 2 until P5 comes out (and other PSP gems as well of course). I just kinda wish there was a way to stretch out the image more but I can't find anyway to do that. It fills the screen up on the XMB but in game mode it cuts the size quite a bit. The size isn't bad but I wouldn't mind stretching it to fill.
Yes, I know that Japanese SCART has a different pin layout, one that they call JP21, and that's what has me confused. Because it should mean that the same cable can be used with any region Saturn, as long as it is connected to a TV from the same region, but if you want to use it outside your region as I want to do, it would have to be rewired in order to give the TV the signals it expects.
But the descriptions of the cables aren't explicit about them being rewired, and worse, when I look at the different cables, some claim to be compatible with Saturns of all regions, which if my theories above are true would make no sense.
I would just have taken a chance on a cable if it wasn't for the warnings I've read about frying your equipment if you get it wrong.
AFAIK the systems themselves can take either cable regardless of region; it's the TVs and other visual equipment that are either wired for RGB SCART or JP21 and can be damaged if you connect the wrong one.
So for my PVM I need to use RGB SCART cables with my PAL, JP, or NA systems, but if I say, bought an XRGB, I'd need to either invest in JP21 cables for my systems, or purchase a special mini-din adapter that allows RGB SCART to be used with such a Japanese device.
Hope that makes sense
Edit: Here's an RGB SCART cable made to work with NTSC Saturns, for example.
AFAIK the systems themselves can take either cable regardless of region; it's the TVs and other visual equipment that are either wired for RGB SCART or JP21 and can be damaged if you connect the wrong one.
So for my PVM I need to use RGB SCART cables with my PAL, JP, or NA systems, but if I say, bought an XRGB, I'd need to either invest in JP21 cables for my systems, or purchase a special mini-din adapter that allows RGB SCART to be used with such a Japanese device.
Hope that makes sense
Edit: Here's an RGB SCART cable made to work with NTSC Saturns, for example.
No, I'm afraid not.
You say you'd need to invest in new JP21 cables if you want to connect your consoles to a JP21 device, but as far as I understand, one of the SCART cables you already have would work with your Japanese console. Your PAL console would need a rewired cable, though, just like your Japanese console currently needs its own rewired cable for your SCART TV.
I've looked at the cable you linked, but here's another one from the same seller. They say it works with consoles of all regions, and is intended for JP21 devices. But as consoles of different regions send different signals to different pins, how can that be true?
BONKERS
Member
Yeah the PSP looks like ass on an HDTV. Games look pretty alright on my CRT interlaced. Wish I could get 480p from component with my TV.
The reason it runs with borders is to ensure a 1:1 pixel mapping. Most likely i'd guess because 480x272 isn't exactly in any kind of standard timing mode. So they 1:1 map it to 720x480 instead.
I think everybody is talking about different things lol
The difference between Scart and JP21 is the pinout at the rectangularish socket. You can't use a Scart cable on a JP21 display and vice versa, the pinout is completely different.
However there is also a difference between the NTSC and PAL models on the console side (You don't need to do this mod). Bascially the PAL Pin1 sends constant DC current, which is used in the Scart specifications to turn the display on or off, set the correct aspect ratio and choose between Composite and RGB. On NTSC Saturns, this pin sends csync. Csync is basically a blip, a short burst of current every 1/60th of a second to keep the display synchronised with the image. But when using a Scart cable made for a PAL console, the Csync signal will just utterly confuse the display and make it go crazy (damaging it is a possibility).
You have two ways of using a PAL Scart cable (the normal one) with an NTSC console.
- Mod the NTSC console so that it adhere to the Scart standard and outputs +5/9/12V on one of its pins (Pin1 in this case). May give problems to displays that can't work with Cvideo.
- Gimp the cable so you can still get RGB but without the fancy stuff like display auto-on/off, aspect ratio and signal selection. You need to change cable if you need Composite (but why would you?)
The difference between Scart and JP21 is the pinout at the rectangularish socket. You can't use a Scart cable on a JP21 display and vice versa, the pinout is completely different.
However there is also a difference between the NTSC and PAL models on the console side (You don't need to do this mod). Bascially the PAL Pin1 sends constant DC current, which is used in the Scart specifications to turn the display on or off, set the correct aspect ratio and choose between Composite and RGB. On NTSC Saturns, this pin sends csync. Csync is basically a blip, a short burst of current every 1/60th of a second to keep the display synchronised with the image. But when using a Scart cable made for a PAL console, the Csync signal will just utterly confuse the display and make it go crazy (damaging it is a possibility).
You have two ways of using a PAL Scart cable (the normal one) with an NTSC console.
- Mod the NTSC console so that it adhere to the Scart standard and outputs +5/9/12V on one of its pins (Pin1 in this case). May give problems to displays that can't work with Cvideo.
- Gimp the cable so you can still get RGB but without the fancy stuff like display auto-on/off, aspect ratio and signal selection. You need to change cable if you need Composite (but why would you?)
sixteen-bit
Member
Oh shit, for real? Looking forward to your results.
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