MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I'm already a PC gamer, but would totally jump on a well designed gaming HTPC (which is what I see the steambox being - effectively a more open console) at the right price.
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Valve engineer confirms Linux-based Steambox for 2013, could appear at GDC or E3
- Thread starter alexandros
- Start date
AdventureRacing
Member
I'm a PC gamer (in that i mostly play on PC's) but i know fuck all about hardware or how to put together a decent rig. I really just buy premade PC's from brick and mortar stores and i know i'm probably getting ripped off.
Something like this seems like a godsend to me.
Something like this seems like a godsend to me.
Netflix on PS3/Wii and other devices runs on html5 not silverlight and netflix seems to like that option over silverlight.
Google is moving away from microsoft as well.
No one wants to work with microsoft if they can avoid it. Google recently made google maps not work on non webkit supported devices. Primarily microsoft IE which uses trident not webkit on for IE. Microsoft is just no longer the standard to base your software around. This could effect things like smartglass if games use any kind of gps through google maps. I believe the ps vita uses google maps and its own near feature through webkit.
We have already established that it isn't targeting PC owners. If it is targeting console owners, then why would a customer buy the Steambox over the WiiU, PS4, or Xbox720? It won't have as many premier exclusives, less marketing/branding, and Valve is already known for having shitty customer support, so I could imagine the box would have a hard time competing for the console customer (or the PC customer for that matter).
So who is this next hardware DRM targeting?
So who is this next hardware DRM targeting?
Half life 3? Portal 3? A steam catalogue of games console only gamers may not have yet?
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
What makes you so sure?
Because multiplatform development is king and there are very few third-party exclusives in this day and age.
That means it's up to the first party to create these exclusives. Nintendo is the first-party king, then Sony, then Microsoft with Microsoft expanding lately.
Valve's first-party output does not match any of them.
If Valve is compared to Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo, I think there's a very high probability that the 3 latter companies will all have more exclusive first party titles than Valve would be able to muster.
I'm wondering what Valve think they can offer in the console market that Sony/MS/Nintendo don't.
Will there be first party games? Maybe portal/l4d/half life, but none of those are big enough to draw people away from existing consoles.
Online infrastructure? Steam is OK for the PC market compared to other solutions, but it will need a huge overhaul if it wants to compete with Live or even PSN.
Number of games that actually support the controller, disk playback without installation, voice chat, interface... all these problems need solving, and even then, it would offer nothing unique.
Steam probably wont even be able to leverage its back catalogue, unless all the games are ported perfectly to Linux or whatever OS, and even then, most wont have controller support.
Will there be first party games? Maybe portal/l4d/half life, but none of those are big enough to draw people away from existing consoles.
Online infrastructure? Steam is OK for the PC market compared to other solutions, but it will need a huge overhaul if it wants to compete with Live or even PSN.
Number of games that actually support the controller, disk playback without installation, voice chat, interface... all these problems need solving, and even then, it would offer nothing unique.
Steam probably wont even be able to leverage its back catalogue, unless all the games are ported perfectly to Linux or whatever OS, and even then, most wont have controller support.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
So you guys wouldn't see PC exclusives that - due to its nature - run on the steambox as Steambox exclusives?
Because there are significant PC exclusives.
EDIT:
rofl
Because there are significant PC exclusives.
EDIT:
rofl
Wolves Evolve
Member
We haven't established anything because we don't know anything.
A potential customer might buy a Steambox if
1) They already had some steam games that could be transferred over.
2) It promised very cheap games and a decent store.
3) It was positioned as a hassle-free TV-ready Linux-driven games box.
4) It had some multi-platform games but in a cheaper box.
Valve has shitty customer support? You're comparing them to Sony? To Microsoft? I think I'll take my chances.
AdventureRacing
Member
Half life, portal, L4D, team fortress, counterstrike and Dota 2 are some pretty fucking big exclusives though. Having said that i am interested in exactly how valve plan to advertise this.
1st Course
Member
And all of them are available on other platforms.
If they can get a way to make playing mouse+keyboard games on the couch work, then this would be very big.
If it's as ghetto as my PC hooked up to the TV, then it's not big.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I just finished up a game of DOTA2 on my WiiU. Man, denying is tricky on that touchpad.
EDIT:
Sorry, I'm still laughing about this
1st Course
Member
you know what I mean, you don't even need a gaming PC to run this game, any toaster would do the job just fine.
Voice chat, party, jumping straight into a game from a friends profile. Not to mention the other non-gaming services.
You might be right, I might be wrong, don't really see how that is funny - you have a weird sense of humour.
Felix Lighter
Member
I know this has been pointed out already, but this is craziness.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
You mean all the shit Steam currently has, not to mention dedicated servers and an actual web browser making those non-gaming services redundant?
Yep, still laughing
It has that the same way the PS3 has it. Quite a few games implement it but certainly not all.
Can I join a multiplayer game of Far Cry 3 from the Steam Friends List?
Dedicated servers are not an issue of platform. PS3 and 360 both have browsers. Didn't know steam had all that, fair enough.
A really bad idea. Worse if it's a more closed system. This is smelling like 1983 all over again.
Diversification is the last thing that the market needs right now. At the moment, we have Playstation, XBox, WiiU, Ouya, iOS, PC delivery (Steam, Facebook, Gree etc) all vying for viability within a marketplace with declining revenue streams both for investment and for development. If this is going to compete with next gen consoles as has been mentioned then one would assume it has its own independent development path. The market cannot and will not be able to sustain the levels of competition that all of these products bring to bear. We are heading toward a monumental shift in the gaming ecosystem and not in a good way.
Diversification is the last thing that the market needs right now. At the moment, we have Playstation, XBox, WiiU, Ouya, iOS, PC delivery (Steam, Facebook, Gree etc) all vying for viability within a marketplace with declining revenue streams both for investment and for development. If this is going to compete with next gen consoles as has been mentioned then one would assume it has its own independent development path. The market cannot and will not be able to sustain the levels of competition that all of these products bring to bear. We are heading toward a monumental shift in the gaming ecosystem and not in a good way.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Is it a steamworks title, as I would imagine everything on a steambox would have to be?
Regarding exclusives, I've read/heard many say exclusives are the least of their concerns. The box that provides the best third party support is their box of choice.
If so, steambox could be that box. Especially if they not only offer great running third party games but at competitive prices as well. I built a pc to avoid xbox live gold and if I'm going for third party why not choose the pc, skyrim sucks on ps3 but their games really just suck all the way around on consoles, their games just run better on pc with mods, if I can get that on steambox without a paywall, it will be a playstation/steambox world for me.
Problem for a lot of pc as gaming rigs is that many are multitasking and have to stop doing other pc stuff to game on pc.
I always thought it was silly that sony didn't pursue pc to ps3 mod support like unreal tournament 3 did or how ps3 game saves in burnout paradise could be uploaded to the web for map updates. Steambox could deliver where a lackluster psn or paywall xbox live gold failed to deliver.
Steam Workshop is all you need.
If so, steambox could be that box. Especially if they not only offer great running third party games but at competitive prices as well. I built a pc to avoid xbox live gold and if I'm going for third party why not choose the pc, skyrim sucks on ps3 but their games really just suck all the way around on consoles, their games just run better on pc with mods, if I can get that on steambox without a paywall, it will be a playstation/steambox world for me.
Problem for a lot of pc as gaming rigs is that many are multitasking and have to stop doing other pc stuff to game on pc.
I always thought it was silly that sony didn't pursue pc to ps3 mod support like unreal tournament 3 did or how ps3 game saves in burnout paradise could be uploaded to the web for map updates. Steambox could deliver where a lackluster psn or paywall xbox live gold failed to deliver.
Steam Workshop is all you need.
So that means Ubisoft and EA are not going to provide third-party support for the Steambox?
That's two huge publishers out of the race already. This thing is doomed.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
So that means Ubisoft and EA are not going to provide third-party support for the Steambox?
That's two huge publishers out of the race already. This thing is doomed.
So, just to be clear, you're suggesting that I can jump into any EA games a friend might be playing on a console?
Think very carefully about that answer...
No, not any, because some of EA's games have been shut down like FIFA 07.
Any currently popular EA game on 360 you can jump into, provided you also have that game.
Can you join any old game on Steam that is using dedicated server but has no community any more that runs a dedicated server? Using the "Join friend's game" in Steam?
Edit: Think carefully about that answer.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Yes, I'm fully aware that EA regularly shut down their servers, making that whole 'console wide being able to jump into any friends game' a myth.
FIFA 11 for example gets shut down this friday.
Yes, I haven't looked, but Richochet should be fairly devoid of players because it is fucking shit.
I can start a game, host a server, and then anyone on my friends list can join me, but they won't because it is shit.
And I'm not going to test it because I don't want anyone seeing me playing richochet. eeeeew.
If they are marked as online playing a multiplayer game, then you can join the multiplayer game.
That doesnt change just because EA shuts down servers for old games, because obviously that server is still on because that other person is playing the multiplayer game.
I said ANY, not any Valve game. I'm still not seeing how my comparison to the PS3 model of opting into that feature set has been disputed.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Because this isn't a random "why PC gaming online is better than on console" thread, this is about the steambox, so I picked a very old title that I know uses steamworks, as I imagine titles to be released on the steambox would.
For the same reason you can't jump into a friends game of Crimson Skies on the 360, or of SOCOM 2 on a 60Gb BC PS3; OS level features have to be available on a target platform, and realistically you can't expect those features to be present on legacy software - which anything released before the steambox is available inherently is.
Does that mean the steambox can't play those games? No.
Does it mean that it can't do that when its released? I have no idea. If Valve are willing to support other developers and publishers with porting games to Linux to run on the steambox, it would seem only sensible to add steamworks support as part of that to allow for exactly that functionality.
Do consoles have no place in the market, then? Because that's exactly what they are. Boxes that run a certain amount of games at a fixed resolution, framerate, etc. Make some titles Steambox exclusive (or timed exclusive) and there you go, another console.
I really don't know what some of you were expecting from this thing. You can already build (or buy) a mini Windows gaming PC and hook it up to your living room TV if you want. Why the hell would people expect Valve to get into the hardware biz just to do that?
That raises my point with EA and Ubisoft. Do you think they would release their multi-plat titles on the Steambox using Steamworks for the Steambox version of the game, but not for the PC version.
Currently they are both expanding their own variants of the integrated PC environment with achievements and online store and DLC integration.
Exactly. We both have no idea.
You said in an earlier post that the Steambox will have the best launch line-up of any console. (Let's talk pure quantity here and ignore that these are old titles that shouldn't blow anyone away.)
They don't all support Steamworks and I don't think they are going to backport this just to get some sales at $5. But that part I don't know. I doubt it however.
Felix Lighter
Member
The Xbox 360's universal invite system is ultimately better than the Steam equivalent because MS has tighter control over its platform. I'll give Live that. I'll personally take the more openness of the Steam platform over forced achievements and a 100% universal MP invite system. Ultimately, those features are made available to developers and they are being implemented more and more frequently and the openness of the platform remains. As for the other features mentioned, universal text and voice chat, including party chat are there as well as automatic game updates, mod distribution system for Workshop games and there are also plenty of other community features that you won't find on Live or PSN. I think the argument that PSN or Live are better platforms is very difficult one to make, especially when the more robust of the 2 costs money.
Sentenza
Member
In this thread: console gamers complain that consoles are a stupid idea.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
GOG have made their business model doing exactly this, though.
If the steambox becomes a de facto PC gaming standard - and I'm not saying it will, but I will say that it has potential to be if done right - and adding steamworks support to titles is an easy and painless step that can be done during the conversion to linux, then why wouldn't publishers support it?
They already support the OS level hooks for PSN and XBL.
Publishers like THQ and Paradox have no problems selling steamworks titles through their own DD stores, despite being nominally in competition.
It also covers all of the other costs that not using steamworks has to worry about; DRM, anti-cheat for online, achievements, cloud saving, etc
alexandros
Banned
I don't know if they can, but they will try. Someone from Valve (can't remember who) said that controllers will go out of beta in 2013. Remember the job ad proclaiming their dissatisfaction at the lack of innovation in PC control methods?
I think GOG is going a more valuable service. They are making games that are often very hard to run on modern Windows systems run on modern Windows systems.
CrossOver has been trying to make Windows games run in Linux since 2007. Regular WINE from before that.
Maybe the per-title way of doing it, is the better model, I don't know.
I'm not convinced that a conversion to Linux is so painless.
If it was so painless, wouldn't we have seen Left 4 Dead 2 be a Steam Linux Beta launch game?
Yeah, Bethesda also has no issue. I was specifically talking about Ubisoft and EA.
I would be very much into that. And I think all control methods have stagnated. Just look at when the Dual Shock was created and we're still using strong derivatives of that.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I'd imagine they chose TF2 because it is free, not because they don't have L4D2 ready.
It is far more likely to pick up beta testers, particularly of the type who are 'linux 4 life' and haven't used a windows machine for years as a value proposition than to ask people to pay money to test a product in beta form.
Sentenza
Member
Interestingly enough, most of the times they are just wrapping these old games with DosBox.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
Off-topic, but thank goodness. Hopefully they'll get off Silverlight on the PC soon as well. No GPU acceleration with Netflix unless you're full screen on Mac makes the plugin worthless to me.
Here is a video of what Linus had to say about Valve working on Linux
Pretty interesting anecdote between the Valve and Kernel developers.
(Bonus question: What does he think about cat pictures.)
Pretty interesting anecdote between the Valve and Kernel developers.
(Bonus question: What does he think about cat pictures.)
CaptainABAB
Member
Will Valve subsidize the steambox? If not, I don't see how it will be price competitive with the 720/PS4.
Do they even have the resources to do so even if they wanted to?
Do they even have the resources to do so even if they wanted to?
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