When customers cant even tell the difference between DayZ and the WarZ, you know you probably shouldn't be relying on them to dictate what shows up on the store.
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Valve is blocking publishers from helping indies bypass Steam Greenlight
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
When customers cant even tell the difference between DayZ and the WarZ, you know you probably shouldn't be relying on them to dictate what shows up on the store.
They've been there for awhile, people just haven't realized it or choose to ignore it.
what would you replace it with instantly? If they stop Greenlight, they have to have another game submission process to replace it. Unless you go back to the way things were before, which I might remind you guys everyone fucking hated, you have to figure out some other way to do things. That takes time.
this is the dumbest post
Valve is far from it and I think most people see them through Half Life coloured glasses. Every time I hear them talk regarding business related things, you can feel the aggression and seriousness regarding the topic. Now this is obviously great on some ways because they make some great products, but don't think they're a gamer's friend.
how would you do it?
A good poster
Banned
Okay, now we're getting into hyperbolic territories.
Valve gets to outsource their process of accepting games onto Steam to a community that hasn't given deserving titles like Cognition enough votes in lieu of Slender clones and surgeon simulators. What's not to like?
It's a massive turkey-bone in the throat of what still is the best GOD service around.
If Sony and Nintendo can take massive steps towards indie's self-publishing titles on their own closed platform, Valve has no excuse on the PC.
Well damn, then I have been proven totally wrong.
Think this gives some context:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/186168/
i wonder how much of that is because of these "steam or no sale" idiots you see posting here quite frequently
fuckers are actively encouraging a monopoly
When a company that has published retail games on consoles has to go through Greenlight I really have to wonder why someone ever thought this implementation was good.
I'm pretty sure Valve would love to be able to look at a title of a game with some pictures and be able to determine if its good or bad. Unfortunately that's not possible. And neither is playing every game they received prior to Greenlight.
Obviously Greenlight hasn't worked the way Valve intended it to, but I'm sure they will improve on it or replace it with something better. Steam was pretty shit when it first shipped.
This is sort of a weird question to ask, if someone not involved with managing a game marketplace can provide a better answer than the people at Valve, I don't know how some of the people at Valve got employed.
goddamn you smartasses always have to take thing literally
actively encouraging a disproportional/unhealthy market dominance
better now?
I think that's Valve's fault, because that's how they made it sound conceptually when it first launched.
SirIgbyCeaser
Banned
The greenlight team within valve has grown larger than the old steam team in charge of allowing new games/devs into their service.
Greenlight came into place because of that team being overloaded by submissions so the genius of greenlight was to let the community filter out the gold from the shit.
In turn though, only the large already long term steam publishers are still connected to the old system. And now people are at the mercy of Greenlights automation, and stats. As a dev, you have to basically have a PR team to get in and out of Greenlight successfully and quick.
Greenlight came into place because of that team being overloaded by submissions so the genius of greenlight was to let the community filter out the gold from the shit.
In turn though, only the large already long term steam publishers are still connected to the old system. And now people are at the mercy of Greenlights automation, and stats. As a dev, you have to basically have a PR team to get in and out of Greenlight successfully and quick.
I would have people on staff who actively evaluate indie games to pass through and then only have Steam Greenlight exist for games I rejected or have not yet looked at, not for everything.
Anything in like the top 100 on Greenlight (that I hadn't already evaluated) would get evaluated pretty quickly as well and I'd pass through the ones I felt were appropriate immediately after assessment, and then let the community keep bumping up the ones I didn't feel were appropriate until it hits whatever bar Valve currently holds to pass through.
Green Biker Dude
Banned
it should be. the number of consumers is finite, and so is the money they're willing to spend. just because valve's approach is wrong, it doesn't mean their goal about limiting which games are sold via the store should be as well
graywolf323
Member
heck just look how cheap Valve is when it comes to Steam's customer service
grimshawish
Banned
My last post should have had 'VALVE IS EVIL' at the end but I thought the 'DOTA company' thing would show it to be a bit exaggerated. I don't think Valve are in a rush to allow lots of developers on their store. They don't have any motivation to; their happy with big titles to bring people to Steam and get most of their money from their free to play side.
Indie's getting on Steam is only really positive to them.
I think there needs to be more effort on the PC to push a Steam competitor. It seems to me theres too many games promising to be on Steam and needing to be on Steam to get a sale. am guilty of that myself in the past, its not just because I want a single library but it can be difficult to trust organisations with secure details and bank info.
Not enough of the 'alternative' stores make enough effort to appear more than just 'we sell indie games' imo. They need a bit more professionalism and aggression.
Steam allowing third party retailers on their store would be an acceptable fix but I still feel they need someone to counter-balance them.
I want someone to stick a fucking ad on youtube saying "Cause Steam Don't" basically.
Indie's getting on Steam is only really positive to them.
I think there needs to be more effort on the PC to push a Steam competitor. It seems to me theres too many games promising to be on Steam and needing to be on Steam to get a sale. am guilty of that myself in the past, its not just because I want a single library but it can be difficult to trust organisations with secure details and bank info.
Not enough of the 'alternative' stores make enough effort to appear more than just 'we sell indie games' imo. They need a bit more professionalism and aggression.
Steam allowing third party retailers on their store would be an acceptable fix but I still feel they need someone to counter-balance them.
I want someone to stick a fucking ad on youtube saying "Cause Steam Don't" basically.
grimshawish
Banned
What the fuck? Steam do have a monopoly. Monopolies don't just affect the consumer but also other businesses. Stop being a clown.
They could just use the greenlight process to determine which software gets frontpage promotion.
Agreed. It demonstrates the problem with an open systems in and of itself. A curated system would not allow such a dumb argument through.
Sentenza
Member
My guess is that this is another case of "fake mystery".
There isn't really anything particularly obscure or weird about it: you can still pitch your product directly to Valve, and if they are interested you get a communication and a proposition from them, otherwise they just throw a generic "Please go through GL" at you, which is probably the polite version of "We honestly don't care about what you showed us, so let's the audience decide if they want it".
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/130862114/810919057027590004/
In short: Frozen Synapse's developers deliberately chose to through GL for their second game even if they didn't need to because they like the system and how it works.
This is my vote.
If the publisher is also in "indie", than there i no reason to let it bypass an indie selection program
SirIgbyCeaser
Banned
BTW I'd like to be devil advocate for one second and suggest maybe valve blocked the publisher in question to better benefit the developer. By not making the dev resort to a middleman and lose percentage of sales.
Seriously, they make some bonehead, awful decisions at times As much as I love Valve and Dota 2, they need to be held accountable for shit like this without excuses like "Oh gaben is just... Oh but Valve does so much for... Oh but I'm sure."
The dev is already losing potential sales everyday that the product isn't available. If a dev and a publisher both agree to publish a game for their mutual benefit then what's the issue? Big brother Gabe knows best? He's just intervening to keep the dumb dev from making a big mistake, it's for their benefit! Just imagine if this was EA instead of Valve rofl...
does valve not get a small cut of profits from game sales?
Diablohead
Member
green light has too much power and control IMO, it's great that it's there for everyone to try but it should not be the end all for releases.
grimshawish
Banned
I have to teach you people everything.
edited from wiki said:
Is Valve the only supplier of digital PC games?
No.
Is there a lack of competition?
No.
Fin.
Valve needs to sit its ass down and open up Steamworks to everyone. Make it payment process similar to the Humble Store as well.
It'll allow developers on an apparently open platform to sell their game on their own page, providing a Steam key to those who cannot live without their DRM. Once a game hits enough sales, it enters the Steampowered Store page.
It'll allow developers on an apparently open platform to sell their game on their own page, providing a Steam key to those who cannot live without their DRM. Once a game hits enough sales, it enters the Steampowered Store page.
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why the specific problem mentioned by the OP is a problem.
Why would it be better for Valve to allow indies to "advertise" and fish their games to big publishers and then just bail on Greenlight once they find one?
This thread has become a general argument against Greenlight ignores the sensibility of the topic specifically mentioned in the OP.
If Valve didn't lock you in to Greenlight once you decided to go that route, then there would be no point to it. Greenlight is supposed to be for indies that want to self publish. If you want to seek a publisher, then you shoudn't be on Greenlight. It is this developer's fault for using the process then wanting take backs.
Why would it be better for Valve to allow indies to "advertise" and fish their games to big publishers and then just bail on Greenlight once they find one?
This thread has become a general argument against Greenlight ignores the sensibility of the topic specifically mentioned in the OP.
If Valve didn't lock you in to Greenlight once you decided to go that route, then there would be no point to it. Greenlight is supposed to be for indies that want to self publish. If you want to seek a publisher, then you shoudn't be on Greenlight. It is this developer's fault for using the process then wanting take backs.
Yeah... they don't. There are tonnes of competing services.
He said that people were "encouraging a monopoly", not that there was one.
The large number of people saying "steam or bust" ARE encouraging a monopoly - they want one supplier, and if it isn't with them, they won't be buying it. It is an attitude against competition, and for a steam-only future. The very definition of encouraging a monopoly, or at least a very unhealthy market dominance.
SolarPowered
Member
You want a real monopoly? Call me when you can't log into gamersgate, the humble store, origin, GoG or Greenmangaming and Steam is your only option. You wouldn't know a real monopoly if Time Warner came to your house, pulled out all your cables and forced you to sign their contract.
Monopolies don't just affect other businesses. They prevent the very existence of competition. You have choices if you know the google-fu.
Valve has that private Greenlight meeting with developers coming soon right? Hopefully that will them figure it out. Greenlight is a poor system but I think Valve can figure something out that works well over time. Whatever they're doing is still far better than what's happening on consoles.
Why?
The PC is already an open platform. Devs can already sell their game on their own page. What's the benefit?
Money?
oneils
Member
This is probably as accurate a description of what is going on as anything else. Seems like valve is trying to figure out how to screen indie games. Trick is to do it in a way that is efficient, inexpensive and fair.
I think Valve should maybe open up a second store or something. All indie games get user submitted and it is buyer beware. The best sellers end up on steam. Maybe something like that could work.
what's the benefit to Valve and the Steam user base?
Money and Steamworks games?
Open steamworks for one. Valve could also see that x game is selling really well on a website and decide to put it on their store without having to do anything. People that wanted the game on Steam can already have it, and Valve can put the game up on their store knowing it'll sell.
quickwhips
Member
At least we have PSN and maybe windows 8 store to be able to publish games through if steam doesn't work out for indie guys anymore. Also IOS/Android.
Doctor Decimate
Member
remember when we thought Greenlight was a good idea?