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[ggx2ac]

Was there people really expecting ps4 performances?

No, they're just imaginary targets for the drive-by shit posts.

 

[Sadist]

I haven't read this thread at all, but I imagine we're still at closer to Xbox One levels of powers, as rumoured? If there are more insightfull posts about it, would be nice to read.

 

[Zedark]

I haven't read this thread at all, but I imagine we're still at closer to Xbox One levels of powers, as rumoured? If there are more insightfull posts about it, would be nice to read.

This is the best one:

I have a few immediate thoughts after reading through the article:

• Firstly, it's worth noting the difference between Maxwell and Pascal is almost entirely down to the manufacturing process. Maxwell was made on 28nm (and in the case of the TX1, 20nm) whereas Pascal is made on 16nm. The actual architectural difference between the two is minimal, and aside from improved color buffer compression, largely irrelevant for a device like the Switch.
• Despite that, the article never makes any mention of the manufacturing process. I find that extremely strange, as it's obviously the defining difference between the two sets of GPUs.
• In fact, the article gets the difference between the two completely the wrong way around, saying "Nintendo’s box is relatively small, and so it has to fit into the heat profile of a portable device, rather than a set-top box. That’s another reason that explains the older Maxwell technology, as opposed to the Pascal’s state-of-the-art tech." Pascal is literally a more power efficient version of Maxwell, so the incentive would be the other way around.
• The author says "we expect the Nintendo Switch to be more than 1 teraflop in performance", which is notably higher than even those of us who were expecting Pascal were considering (I literally posted earlier today with a 500-750 Gflop estimate). If this is a Maxwell chip, then that would mean at least 4 SMs (512 "CUDA cores") at 1GHz, as they're not going to be able to push much past that on 28/20nm. This is a much larger GPU than most people would have been expecting.

I see a few different scenarios here:

1. The Switch SoC uses Maxwell at 20nm, and simply has a much larger GPU than anticipated to account for the performance.
2. Nintendo looked at the feature-set planned for Pascal when design started, realised that the new features were largely irrelevant, and decided that they would save time and just use a straight-forward die shrink of Maxwell to 16nm instead. That would technically be a Maxwell GPU, but would be almost completely indistinguishable from Pascal in terms of performance.
3. The sources are wrong about Maxwell, the 1 Tflop performance, or both.

Basically, if you're to take the article as being accurate, then the only worthwhile takeaway is this quote:



A Maxwell Tflop is identical to a Pascal Tflop, and it's largely irrelevant to us whether they achieved that by using a larger Maxwell GPU on 20nm/28nm at a lower clock or a smaller Pascal GPU on 16nm at a higher clock.

 

[ggx2ac]

I haven't read this thread at all, but I imagine we're still at closer to Xbox One levels of powers, as rumoured? If there are more insightfull posts about it, would be nice to read.

Here:

The article tells us very little. NateDrake said that the final dev-kits have Maxwell Architecture even though he was expecting Pascal and is checking with his sources.

Thraktor made a post detailing why the architectural differences don't really matter between Maxwell and Pascal as they're not significantly different which we know from the features of the architecture and that Pascal was not in the original roadmap for Nvidia as it was more of a stopgap than a successor like Volta will be.

The custom Tegra in the Switch is most likely a derivative of Maxwell rather than being Pascal but we still don't know the process node.

The article was then edited after they were shown Thraktor's post because there were a lot of technical inconsistencies and contradictions. However, the editing didn't help making things clearer and has left more people being sceptical of the article.

So all that is left is the thread running on shit posting drive-byes to pass the time.

So basically this is what the average person knows of the Nintendo Switch that can be ascertained as fact: (For relevance)

 

[Akhe]

Holy shit, it just keeps pouring in, peoples who just read the thread title and associate maxwell with some old shit tech.

A custom tegra is "based" on Maxwell
Pascal is "based" on Maxwell

repeat

A custom tegra is "based" on Maxwell
Pascal is "based" on Maxwell

repeat

A custom tegra is "based" on Maxwell
Pascal is "based" on Maxwell

repeat

A custom tegra is "based" on Maxwell
Pascal is "based" on Maxwell

A new mantra until January 12. Let's go.

 

[jett]

Wii U is 176gflops (160 shaders*550mhz) VLIW5 architecture. Switch will also have 3.2x RAM and a much, much more powerful and modern CPU.



Well yeah, considering the form factor i wouldn't complain too much, but i'm still a bit worried about battery life and third party games performances when undocked. Hopefully they figured these things out.

The Wii U has 2GB of RAM. The rumor for the Switch is 4.

 

[Oregano]

The Wii U has 2GB of RAM. The rumor for the Switch is 4.

Wii U had 1GB reserved for the OS and rumour is Switch will have 800mb reserved. So the amount usable for games would be 3.2x higher.

 

[Zedark]

The Wii U has 2GB of RAM. The rumor for the Switch is 4.

He is talking about available RAM. WiiU had 1 gb reserve for OS, Switch is rumored (I believe?) to have only 0.8 gb for that, so workable RAM is 3.2 times larger for Switch in this case.

 

[Hermii]

The Wii U has 2GB of RAM. The rumor for the Switch is 4.

Roumors is 3.2 gb dedicated to games, Wii U has 1.

 

[gtj1092]

The Wii U has 2GB of RAM. The rumor for the Switch is 4.

Wii U only uses 1 GB for games. NX will apparently use 3.2 for games.

It is hilarious though that in a span of year NS went from competing with ps4 pro to simply out classing a Wii u.

 

[Hermii]

Wii U only uses 1 GB for games. NX will apparently use 3.2 for games.

It is hilarious though that in a span of year NS went from competing with ps4 pro to simply out classing a Wii u.

Ever since we learned it was a hybrid expectations has been more or less in check with reality.

 

[KingSnake]

It is hilarious though that in a span of year NS went from competing with ps4 pro to simply out classing a Wii u.

Only SMD64 and his followers believed in competing with PS4 Pro. And 10k. Any reasonable person knew that it was just a fantasy.

 

[The_Lump]

I have a few immediate thoughts after reading through the article:

• Firstly, it's worth noting the difference between Maxwell and Pascal is almost entirely down to the manufacturing process. Maxwell was made on 28nm (and in the case of the TX1, 20nm) whereas Pascal is made on 16nm. The actual architectural difference between the two is minimal, and aside from improved color buffer compression, largely irrelevant for a device like the Switch.
• Despite that, the article never makes any mention of the manufacturing process. I find that extremely strange, as it's obviously the defining difference between the two sets of GPUs.
• In fact, the article gets the difference between the two completely the wrong way around, saying "Nintendo’s box is relatively small, and so it has to fit into the heat profile of a portable device, rather than a set-top box. That’s another reason that explains the older Maxwell technology, as opposed to the Pascal’s state-of-the-art tech." Pascal is literally a more power efficient version of Maxwell, so the incentive would be the other way around.
• The author says "we expect the Nintendo Switch to be more than 1 teraflop in performance", which is notably higher than even those of us who were expecting Pascal were considering (I literally posted earlier today with a 500-750 Gflop estimate). If this is a Maxwell chip, then that would mean at least 4 SMs (512 "CUDA cores") at 1GHz, as they're not going to be able to push much past that on 28/20nm. This is a much larger GPU than most people would have been expecting.

I see a few different scenarios here:

1. The Switch SoC uses Maxwell at 20nm, and simply has a much larger GPU than anticipated to account for the performance.
2. Nintendo looked at the feature-set planned for Pascal when design started, realised that the new features were largely irrelevant, and decided that they would save time and just use a straight-forward die shrink of Maxwell to 16nm instead. That would technically be a Maxwell GPU, but would be almost completely indistinguishable from Pascal in terms of performance.
3. The sources are wrong about Maxwell, the 1 Tflop performance, or both.

Basically, if you're to take the article as being accurate, then the only worthwhile takeaway is this quote:



A Maxwell Tflop is identical to a Pascal Tflop, and it's largely irrelevant to us whether they achieved that by using a larger Maxwell GPU on 20nm/28nm at a lower clock or a smaller Pascal GPU on 16nm at a higher clock.

Just quoting this to highlight it again. It really does say it all and kinda ends the thread imo

If you're still confused about any of this stuff, just read the post over and over until it makes sense.

 

[jett]

Pretty strange if the Switch ends up with less RAM allocated for the OS than the Wii U.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Holy shit, it just keeps pouring in, peoples who just read the thread title and associate maxwell with some old shit tech.

A custom tegra is "based" on Maxwell
Pascal is "based" on Maxwell

repeat

A custom tegra is "based" on Maxwell
Pascal is "based" on Maxwell

repeat

A custom tegra is "based" on Maxwell
Pascal is "based" on Maxwell

repeat

A custom tegra is "based" on Maxwell
Pascal is "based" on Maxwell

Welcome to next year... pfft, NX is just a cheap tablet chipset...

 

[Oregano]

Pretty strange if the Switch ends up with less RAM allocated for the OS than the Wii U.

Well I personally have no clue where the hell that 1GB went with the Wii U OS.

 

[Captain Europe]

Wii U only uses 1 GB for games. NX will apparently use 3.2 for games.

It is hilarious though that in a span of year NS went from competing with ps4 pro to simply out classing a Wii u.

That's because we know it's a different product and not a regular home console, pretty self explanatory IMO.

 

[nightside]

Pretty strange if the Switch ends up with less RAM allocated for the OS than the Wii U.

Maybe this time they will do a better job.

 

[Rodin]

Wii U only uses 1 GB for games. NX will apparently use 3.2 for games.

It is hilarious though that in a span of year NS went from competing with ps4 pro to simply out classing a Wii u.

That's simply because we were thinking that the NX was going to be a family of systems that shared the same architecture, API and OS to build a library of (scalable) games that would've worked with every system. But even then most people were expecting ~1tflop (2 in the unlikely best case scenario) for the home console and ~100-140 for the handheld. When it was leaked that the NX was going to be a hybrid system no one realistically expected more than 768gflops when docked.

Well I personally have no clue where the hell that 1GB went with the Wii U OS.

Idem.

 

[Renekton]

A custom tegra is "based" on Maxwell
Pascal is "based" on Maxwell

The word "based" has different connotations depending context. The first implies a custom SoC using Maxwell architecture for GPU. The 2nd is a new GPU architecture generation step-up from the previous base.

 

[Easy_D]

The word "based" has different connotations depending context. The first implies a custom SoC using Maxwell architecture for GPU. The 2nd is a new GPU architecture generation step-up from the previous base.

Except it's been stated over and over again that Pascal is essentially Maxwell with some very minor tweaks as well as being 16 instead of 20nm, hardly a generational leap.

 

[kingkaiser]

Specs seem a little bit too power-hungry for a handheld but also too underpowered for a modern console.

Worst of both worlds.

 

[Stulaw]

Specs seem a little bit too power-hungry for a handheld but also too underpowered for a modern console.

Worst of both worlds.

Damn Chewie I think we've leapt into hyperspace.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Specs seem a little bit too power-hungry for a handheld but also too underpowered for a modern console.

Worst of both worlds.

Repeat this a million times and it'll become true.

Stay strong, my friend.

 

[Shahadan]

Isn't that 800mb OS rumor only from that Vern guy? I don't think I've seen it anywhere else. I'm expecting more than that tbh

I find it strange that's basically the only rumor nobody is questioning. Isn't that just wishful thinking?

 

[QuantumSquid]

Uh, isn't Pascal just Maxwell on a smaller process? And who uses Pascal for desktops?

Everyone who wants top-tier performance? The GTX 1070, 1080 and Titan XP are all Pascal GPUs.

 

[BigEmil]

Was there people really expecting ps4 performances?

In any case as long as i can play games like skyrim and dark souls well(i don't care about visual downgrades) i'm fine with anything.

People were mostly hoping for near og Xbox one level from what I've seen before, not the same but close and it being 2017 hardware compared to 2013 hardware and in portable mode only have to render at 720p and maybe less graphic setting it can be pretty close to Xbox one however

 

[KingSnake]

Isn't that 800mb OS rumor only from that Vern guy? I don't think I've seen it anywhere else. I'm expecting more than that tbh

I find it strange that's basically the only rumor nobody is questioning. Isn't that just wishful thinking?

Yes, the rumour is from Vern and until now now backed up by any other source. So I wouldn't take it as certain in any way yet.

 

[SirShandy]

Wii U only uses 1 GB for games. NX will apparently use 3.2 for games.

It is hilarious though that in a span of year NS went from competing with ps4 pro to simply out classing a Wii u.

The first PS4 Pro rumors appeared in March (under the name NEO) and the first substantial Switch rumors appeared in July (along with the Nvidia tegra rumors). Until the October 20th reveal, all speculation on it's power was couched more in disagreement over whether the rumor should be taken seriously. Once it was confirmed to be a hybrid, it was clear from the form factor alone that Nintendo was not competing for power with the newer home console iterations.

Still, a frustrating feature in every switch graphics thread is the wishful thinking fueled speculation - looking into every vague information gap for potentially more graphical horse power. This horsepower-centric approach to speculation has been at odds with Nintendo's own approach to hardware for the last decade. There intention is differentiation through play-experience as opposed to playing the graphical arms race.

Nintendo's goal with the Switch is a delicate balance of hitting enough power, in a uniquely flexible device, at a consumer friendly price (hopefully the rumored 250$). You can argue over what "enough power" needs to be, but that decision is in equal balance with the "good enough price", and the "interesting enough form factor".

The Switch hands on events in January will be our first substantial look at how well all these elements come together.

 

[TwilightPrincess]

People were mostly hoping for near og Xbox one level from what I've seen before, not the same but close and it being 2017 hardware compared to 2013 hardware and in portable mode only have to render at 720p and maybe less graphic setting it can be pretty close to Xbox one however

Most people expected around Tegra X1 power, perhaps a little bit higher, between Tegra X1 and Parkers 750gflops. that would still be around half of the Xbox Ones raw power, but more modern, more Nvidia and with fp16 "doublespeed" magicsauce (which some expect a 20% increase in performance).

As there are 2 modes (as described in the patent and through Laura Kate Dale) i hope the docked mode will get near the 500gflops of the X1, that would be enough for better graphics than Wii U and perhaps enough for XboxOne downports with lower settings on graphics and resolution, like you say. XboxOne ports in the handheldmode in 480p or 540p would still be great for a handheld. We have to wait and see if that is possible.

 

[Shahadan]

Yes, the rumour is from Vern and until now now backed up by any other source. So I wouldn't take it as certain in any way yet.

Okay thanks. I thought I had missed something.
Maxwell or Pascal or whatever, if there is a bad surprise I'm worried it might come from the RAM usage instead.

 

[Neo_Geo]

Pretty strange if the Switch ends up with less RAM allocated for the OS than the Wii U.

Not really, 1GB for the Wii U was ridiculously over-inflated for what was actually going on with the OS.

 

[-MB-]

If you assume the PS4 is Goku and XB1 is Vegeta, this would make the Switch a little above Krillin-tier. At best a pre-Cell Games Gohan.

And your power assessment is Farmer with a shotgun shit-tier.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

My question for those in the tech know is.


If the Nintendo Switch is a modular system and everything is "switchable" from the display resolution to the controller, why would the system itself which we already thought to be upgradable via the so-called SCD, be limited to the tech of the moment?

The base architecture of the Nintendo Switch should be able to port games from the current baseline console (XBOXONE) which it self has games that will be developed for both the PC and the Scorpio. I can't see why the "SCD" can't do the same thing in a modular form.

I remember the past attempts to improve the performance of a console have to be implemented during the design of the console (i.e. 4MEG on the N64 or Saturn). Is there such a design imbedded in the Switch Via maybe the Dock?

 

[Ridley327]

Not really, 1GB for the Wii U was ridiculously over-inflated for what was actually going on with the OS.

The Wii U OS never felt like it ever got to the point of not feeling like patchwork. As much as they worked to improve the loading times for accessing the system-level options, they're still bad and they shouldn't exist under any kind of normal circumstance in the first place. I get that it was their first real OS for console, but they focused on all the wrong things.

 

[The_Lump]

That the issue people aren't confused. Most people making the crazy post are doing it purposely just to troll. It is being allowed so....

Yes I know, thats why I think all that's left to do is repost the quote which explains it in idiot proof detail.

 

[michaelius]

That the issue people aren't confused. Most people making the crazy post are doing it purposely just to troll. It is being allowed so....

I think you are greatly overestimating general level of technical knowledge among gamers.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The Wii U OS never felt like it ever got to the point of not feeling like patchwork. As much as they worked to improve the loading times for accessing the system-level options, they're still bad and they shouldn't exist under any kind of normal circumstance in the first place. I get that it was their first real OS for console, but they focused on all the wrong things.

I never noticed any real big improvement, just clever hiding of the loading pauses really... :/.

 

[mavericktopgun]

Pretty strange if the Switch ends up with less RAM allocated for the OS than the Wii U.

Optimization you know? Nvidia will help them as much as possible.

Successful Switch = Successful Nvidia = Money

 

[AzaK]

Pretty strange if the Switch ends up with less RAM allocated for the OS than the Wii U.

Not really, 1GB for a gaming OS like the Wii U was insane. We obviously don't know what's in the OS but it wouldn't surprise me if they couldn't get it down to 1/2 - 1/4 Gig. Certainly the code and memory footprint does not need to be anywhere near that. If it's bigger it'll be due to resident resources.

 

[McMilhouse]

This thing better be a 16nm apu with ddr4 for the batteries sake

 

[Doctre81]

Pretty strange if the Switch ends up with less RAM allocated for the OS than the Wii U.

Not really. It's not gonna having useless things like NintendoTiiVii on it.

 

[sir_bumble_bee]

Not really. It's not gonna having useless things like NintendoTiiVii on it.

OMG that was one of the most pointless features I've ever seen included into a gaming console. Like... what was Nintendo thinking?

 

[KHlover]

OMG that was one of the most pointless features I've ever seen included into a gaming console. Like... what was Nintendo thinking?

I don't know, it never even launched here in Europe D:

 

[Pokemaniac]

Not really. It's not gonna having useless things like NintendoTiiVii on it.

Nintendo TVii did not increase the RAM allocation by itself. It most likely would have been the same regardless. The bigger contributors would be the Internet Browser and Miiverse and eShop being browser-based.

 

[ultrazilla]

My question for those in the tech know is.


If the Nintendo Switch is a modular system and everything is "switchable" from the display resolution to the controller, why would the system itself which we already thought to be upgradable via the so-called SCD, be limited to the tech of the moment?

The base architecture of the Nintendo Switch should be able to port games from the current baseline console (XBOXONE) which it self has games that will be developed for both the PC and the Scorpio. I can't see why the "SCD" can't do the same thing in a modular form.

I remember the past attempts to improve the performance of a console have to be implemented during the design of the console (i.e. 4MEG on the N64 or Saturn). Is there such a design imbedded in the Switch Via maybe the Dock?

NeoGAF's own Rosti originally posted about a patent that Nintendo was granted that will most likely be used for the Nintendo Switch IMO.

Here's Rosti's original post:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1263936

I've also been predicting that Nintendo will sell "add on" device(s) that will upgrade the Switch to different power levels(the patent granted to them for supplemental processing units being connected together to increase performance IMHO is the giveaway). Instead of the consumer getting stuck having to buy another iteration of the hardware like MS and Sony are making folks do with the Xbox One S and Sony PS4 Pro(and the upcoming Scorpio), Nintendo will simply release a device(box) that can be plugged into the Switch and work together with it to increase performance.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...uting_device_patent_is_cleared_for_completion

It's a great idea. If you want to upgrade your Switch, you can buy the *Nintendo Switch 4K add on" for whatever price(most likely a price in line with buying another system like Sony and MS fans are doing with Xbox One S and PS4 Pro-$299/399, etc).

We'll see what Nintendo has cooking next month but I *HIGHLY* doubt they will ignore 4K content/gaming with the Switch and it seems like they're already looking into possible VR applications for the system as well which most people would agree takes some pretty decent horsepower to do decently.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

4K is just taking off. Look how long it took Nintendo to get into HD. Don't expect 4K for a long time.

 

[Eolz]

4K is just taking off. Look how long it took Nintendo to get into HD. Don't expect 4K for a long time.

It's not a matter of Nintendo catching up this time, no console is doing proper 4k yet. Let's see how Scorpio does, but Nintendo is always putting the focus on framerate first.

 

[AzaK]

I don't know, it never even launched here in Europe D:

Same here in NZ. A button and everything on the controller that did nothing. Nintendo were insane to think they could get any sort of multimedia thing working well and for various territories given the fragmentation of it all.

 

[Deadbeat]

Regardless of Maxwell or Pascal, it will be multiple times a WiiU.

1xWiiU?

.