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[amstradcpc]

You posted earlier hinting at the same thing, I believe:

Have your prior thoughts been confirmed or is this something different? (Or is this just reiteration of the same thoughts?)

-----
Did he say that?

That seems to conflict with earlier information in the thread. At least from Proelite.

So confusing.

The thing is i don´t see asset compression/decompression related to SIMD management but as something related to increase the effective bandwith: you pack the bit packages after being computed and before sending them through the bus so more of them can travel across, and more can fit into memory. Something like texture compression but more general. This would have some sense to make the effective bandwidth to the memory pools greater.

If there is hardware in to improve SIMD usage it must be something related to prevent the ALUs stalls when there are instructions dependencies in a wavefront that in GCN forces to process a instruction of another wavefront to prevent the ALU from waiting for the dependent instructions to be executed. This could be solve introducing some kind of out-of-order schedule that allowed to jump from one instruction to another inside the same wavefront.

 

[oldergamer]

I can't see any problem building four directional mics into a console with a constantly spinning blu-ray drive and constantly spinning harddrive, wedged into someone's entertainment center...

The mics and cameras obviously don't need to be in the console.. the rest of the hardware doesn't need to be in the camera casing. Obviously it wouldn't make sense to put anything in the console outside of processing chips.

 

[oldergamer]

Perhaps we should be looking for MS patents related to real-time hardware data compression?

 

[oldergamer]

Texture data chewing up bandwidth is typically already compressed.

Is there a way to compress/uncompress frame buffer information or Vertex data?

 

[deadlast]

So will the Kinect 2.0 use USB 3.0, rendering the Kinect 1.0 useless on the next xbox?

 

[Hasney]

So will the Kinect 2.0 use USB 3.0, rendering the Kinect 1.0 useless on the next xbox?

In the pictures I've seen in this thread, it allegedly it has it's own input bus. Not sure on the specs of it though.

 

[LukasTaves]

There is little benefit to that, it just means you have less data to send through usb. If it's a standard feature of the console you should just provide a high bandwidth connection to the new camera, which I'm sure they will do.

That's true, since they are designing the console with kinect in mind they can just put a fast enough bus. Dunno how that would fit with their current production lines, though (They still make kinects for 360 and Windows, but it's probably not huge amounts)

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

In the pictures I've seen in this thread, it allegedly it has it's own input bus. Not sure on the specs of it though.

I have a feeling Microsoft is going to make it a proprietary device and not give it a USB port.

 

[Alx]

I have a feeling Microsoft is going to make it a proprietary device and not give it a USB port.

It wouldn't be a bad idea actually. USB isn't a very good protocol for streaming and real-time processing, it is mostly software-based and isn't very reliable on latency.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

If Kinect is in i´m out.

I'm leaning that way too.

It just doesn't work in my setup, my room is too small, the screen is too large and there's nowhere to put the sensor without obscuring the screen.

Plus it's an unresponsive pile of shit.

 

[majortom1981]

I hope the hdmi in is true. I have a google tv and would happily replace it with the next xbox if true. I am a big Nintendo gamer but haven't had much time for games at all but do watch a lot of media and have windows 8 and a wp8 phone . The next xbox would be a must get for me if it includes an hdmi in port. It would allow better integration with your tv and cablebox.

 

[derFeef]

I'm leaning that way too.

It just doesn't work in my setup, my room is too small, the screen is too large and there's nowhere to put the sensor without obscuring the screen.

Plus it's an unresponsive pile of shit.

That's with the assumption the device will be the same, which it will not be. There is no detailed info out there, but it would be incredible stupid by them if they would not improve in those areas.

 

[manzo]

I'm leaning that way too.

It just doesn't work in my setup, my room is too small, the screen is too large and there's nowhere to put the sensor without obscuring the screen.

Plus it's an unresponsive pile of shit.

Same here. I'm playing on a projector and I tested my friend's Kinect with my setup. If I stand up, I block half of the screen, so it's impossible to play when I can only see my shadow..

 

[deadlast]

I have a feeling Microsoft is going to make it a proprietary device and not give it a USB port.

Why? They sell tons of those things for non-xbox related R&D and education stuff/endeavors .

 

[derFeef]

Same here. I'm playing on a projector and I tested my friend's Kinect with my setup. If I stand up, I block half of the screen, so it's impossible to play when I can only see my shadow..

Then it's a bad projector setup anyway.

 

[DBT85]

That's with the assumption the device will be the same, which it will not be. There is no detailed info out there, but it would be incredible stupid by them if they would not improve in those areas.

If they want it to be popular in the rest of the world then surely they HAVE to work on it. Average livingrooms in Europe are much smaller than those in the US.

 

[Phonomezer]

Is there an MS event on today?

 

[Violater]

I'm leaning that way too.

It just doesn't work in my setup, my room is too small, the screen is too large and there's nowhere to put the sensor without obscuring the screen.

Plus it's an unresponsive pile of shit.

Doesn't necessarily mean it removes the controller as in input option in any way.

 

[deadlast]

I was look at the Windows 8 Documentation, since the next xbox will mostlikely be using some form of windows 8, and came across this : Offloaded data transfers

It isn't the move engines but it might give us some insight on how offloading data transfer will work in the next xbox.

To advance the storage data movement, Microsoft has developed a new data transfer technology – offloaded data transfer (ODX). Instead of using buffered read and buffered write operations, Windows ODX starts the copy operation with an offload read and retrieves a token representing the data from the storage device, then uses an offload write command with the token to request data movement from the source disk to the destination disk...

 

[swordsman720]

The Family love Kinect, in fact I can't get on the bloody 360 most nights until they all bugger off to bed. The news that the new xbox will have one as standard is not the best news for me thats for sure.

Die Hard gamer will have two Xbox . I am understanding your frustrating.
Our TV set was previously accoupied most of the times by my wife for her soup series. So I bought her an Ipad 3. Since then the tv set is free for gaming

Kinect barely touch here. Maybe I have some few games to enjoy.

 

[Razgreez]

That's with the assumption the device will be the same, which it will not be. There is no detailed info out there, but it would be incredible stupid by them if they would not improve in those areas.

Before it got officially released i had a chance to try it and said it should have been improved before its actual release. Realistically it just did not work yet i got lambasted as being a "hater" around here only to be vindicated once people actually got hold of it. One can hope it improves to the point where it- at least - holds true to the promises made in the initial press videos of it but they seemed fine with releasing an inconsistent product before so i'm not sure whether they won't do that again. It's nice to add more features just make sure they actually work consistently before you release them

 

[ekim]

Is there an MS event on today?

Oui

https://msftopenhousesvc.eventbrite.com/

 

[Alx]

Before it got officially released i had a chance to try it and said it should have been improved before its actual release. Realistically it just did not work yet i got lambasted as being a "hater" around here only to be vindicated once people actually got hold of it. One can hope it improves to the point where it- at least - holds true to the promises made in the initial press videos

It already does. All the features you can see in the original press videos were implemented and work in several games. You may not have noticed it if you haven't followed the kinect scene since its launch, but you're judging it based on a 2 years old impression of an unreleased device...
It's not too big an assumption to think that many limitations of the current sensor will be reduced with newer hardware : the current version of kinect can already be more responsive and more precise with more bandwidth, memory and CPU allocated. You could leave the sensor unchanged and already have a performance increase on a new console.
And of course processing libraries will obviously have improved (those of the windows SDK were updated several times already).

 

[LukasTaves]

Oui

https://msftopenhousesvc.eventbrite.com/

A 3 hour event? Hmmmm

 

[nib95]

A 3 hour event? Hmmmm

Indeed.

Will this be streamed any where?

 

[Felix Lighter]

The event that they use to reveal their new console will be much bigger and well promoted.

 

[itsgreen]

Guys it is just a networking thing... _nothing_ will be announced... just a run through of their current portofolio of products.

So expect Windows 8 demo's, surface demo, Office 2013, Office 365, Xbox etc...

Be excited when they invite press.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Guys it is just a networking thing... _nothing_ will be announced... just a run through of their current portofolio of products.

Be excited when they invite press.

While there will probably be no announcements that would interest us, they are supposed to talk about their direction going forward, and we could perhaps infer some things from that.

 

[derFeef]

I expect some tidbits, if even

 

[specialguy]

The event that they use to reveal their new console will be much bigger and well promoted.

and it'll have a gaf thread

 

[itsgreen]

While there will probably be no announcements that would interest us, they are supposed to talk about their direction going forward, and we could perhaps infer some things from that.

Not even that... this is just a 'look at what we are doing, how are you'-kind of thing... it's a networking event. You probably get a better inside look at Channel 9...

 

[Razgreez]

It already does. All the features you can see in the original press videos were implemented and work in several games. You may not have noticed it if you haven't followed the kinect scene since its launch, but you're judging it based on a 2 years old impression of an unreleased device...

I was going to type a counter argument but what is the point. I knew you would be unable to resist responding to my post and i'm sorry if this response seems personally directed but you do act like some die hard kinect PR mouth piece. Unlike others i'm not calling kinect a steaming pile. I see the potential in it i just dislike the way ms has cut corners and could see them doing the same with the next iteration - i hope they don't though

 

[JaggedSac]

While there will probably be no announcements that would interest us, they are supposed to talk about their direction going forward, and we could perhaps infer some things from that.

Alex Kipman is talking, and that should be interesting even if they don't announce anything.

 

[Alx]

Unlike others i'm not calling kinect a steaming pile.

I was just correcting a false information that I see too often. There is much to say about kinect, to like or dislike, to discuss and imagine... but the "kinect is a lie" and "it doesn't work" is factually wrong, and the discussions about it would be more productive if people could admit and understand that.
And yes, I'm always reacting to kinect subjects, because that's the main thing that kept me interessed in console gaming lately. I'd rather discuss it and the features it could give us as users, than count teraflops and GB/s without even knowing what that will bring us apart from prettier graphics.

 

[shinra-bansho]

From that link it seems like an unrestricted event. Ergo, I doubt anything of substance will really be revealed there.

 

[AgentP]

From what I understand I think it derives from the assertion that the consoles are essentially equivalent. As the raw peak FLOPS favor Orbis, the difference would presumably close if Durango's is able to reach it's theoretical maximum more than Orbis reaches its theoretical maximum - which would imply a more inefficient Orbis.

Then I would repeat my question, where does this come from? As if anyone developing for both has said this? Sounds like more "secret sauce" wishful thinking.

 

[derFeef]

Then I would repeat my question, where does this come from? As if anyone developing for both has said this? Sounds like more "secret sauce" wishful thinking.

Yes, on this very forum.

 

[FrankT]

The event that they use to reveal their new console will be much bigger and well promoted.

Either GDC or E3 at this point. The way MS has worked this gen however I really see it as E3.

 

[i-Lo]

Either GDC or E3 at this point. The way MS has worked this gen however I really see it as E3.

GDC is a likelier event to "tease" and E3 for the full bonanza.

 

[pr0cs]

GDC is a likelier event to "tease" and E3 for the full bonanza.

I would be surprised if they didn't do a X type event for it. GDC is too dev focused and not really good to unveil a new product and it's clear that a lot of companies don't think E3 is a good venue, not like it used to be anyway. It will be difficult to unveil a new console at E3 these days given the time limitations.

But perhaps they'll still unveil at E3 and do an X event in late summer, August like they've done in the past. X13 type event.

 

[shinobi602]

Indeed.

Will this be streamed any where?

I emailed the organizer to see if it'll be streamed anywhere.

 

[coldfoot]

I have a feeling Microsoft is going to make it a proprietary device and not give it a USB port.

It'll be just a high powered USB port with a proprietary connector. The protocol will still be USB, no need to reinvent the wheel.
For PC, you'll just have an adapter that converts it to USB and a power brick. You know, like the current Kinect.

 

[Alx]

It'll be just a high powered USB port with a proprietary connector. The protocol will still be USB, no need to reinvent the wheel.

There's no need to reinvent the wheel indeed, but other types of wheels already exist, with their own benefits. Firewire/IEEE1394 used to be a common alternative to USB for example (the PS2 even had one), but the latter became more popular because it is cheaper.

 

[XtremeXpider]

If Sony is including a "dual camera" (looks like kinect ), can it mean better support for Kinect?

 

[oldergamer]

An interesting IBM patent posted at the semiaccurate forums:

http://www.google.com/patents/US2012...=eric+mejdrich

This reminds me of the MS talisman proposed architecture about 18 years ago. Similar in some aspects. Anyway, hardware that could implement this technique would do wonders for saving on bandwidth...


With all this talk of MS and AMD, whatever happened to IBM being involved in this? IBM helped them with the cpu for 360. but this time if they aren't using the 360 cpu, what involvement does IBM have?

 

[XtremeXpider]

With all this talk of MS and AMD, whatever happened to IBM being involved in this? IBM helped them with the cpu for 360. but this time if they aren't using the 360 cpu, what involvement does IBM have?

Chip manufacturing? Oban?

 

[CrunchinJelly]

If Sony is including a "dual camera" (looks like kinect ), can it mean better support for Kinect?

Well I guess they already copied the Wiimote so it stands to reason that Kinect would be next.

 

[Fafalada]

This reminds me of the MS talisman proposed architecture about 18 years ago.

It sounds like a more limited subset of what Talisman was about.
But then again - neither has any place being implemented in hardware - things that need accelerating for IBR, are already accelerated by most graphics hw in the past 15 years.

And software already uses the techniques when they make sense.

 

[mrklaw]

Texture data chewing up bandwidth is typically already compressed.

Is there a way to compress/uncompress frame buffer information or Vertex data?

Its been a while but I think PS2 VUs handled compressed vertex data?

 

[JaggedSac]

If Sony is including a "dual camera" (looks like kinect ), can it mean better support for Kinect?

I don't know much about what kind of things stereo cameras can do, but if anyone knows, what kind of depth information does this provide?