Support NeoGAF

[AbsolutBro]

Washington Post article

A Virginia school district has pulled copies of “To Kill a Mockingbird” and “The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn” from classrooms and libraries while it weighs whether it should permanently ban the American classics because of the books’ use of racial slurs.

In response to a formal complaint from a parent, Accomack County Public Schools Superintendent Chris Holland said the district has appointed a committee to recommend whether the books should remain in the curriculum and stay in school libraries. District policy calls for the formation of the committee — which can include a principal, teachers and parents — when a parent formally files a complaint.

The parent, Marie Rothstein-Williams, made an emotional plea at a school board meeting Nov. 15, saying the works had disturbed her teenage son, a biracial student at Nandua High School on Virginia’s Eastern Shore.

“I’m not disputing this is great literature,” Rothstein-Williams said. “But there is so much racial slurs in there and offensive wording that you can’t get past that, and right now we are a nation divided as it is.”

James LaRue, director of the American Library Association’s Office for Intellectual Freedom, said he understands the challenge of teaching books laced with language that is deeply upsetting to some. But he said schools should approach such works carefully instead of throwing them out. He said teachers can avoid having students read the works aloud, for example, and talk to them about the historical context in which they were written.

Removing the books from classrooms and libraries is censorship, he said.

“America is still deeply uncomfortable with its racial history,” LaRue said. He said that hiding the books — which many consider seminal works of American literature — amounts to “forgetting history.”

In her remarks to the Accomack school board, Rothstein-Williams said she understands that the works are considered classics, but she worries that they teach students it is okay to use racially charged words.

(More article at the link.)

I saw a bit of the article in the paper this morning and thought it an interesting discussion point.

I am generally against banning books in schools. The last big push for banning the Harry Potter books because they 'promote occultism' is a pretty good example of the "thought" that usually goes into a call for a book ban. All too often the groups calling for a ban see something they do not like and rather than face it would rather hide away from it. That does not seem to be the case here however: Mrs. Williams even acknlowledges the books are classic literature.


Part of me wants to say "they're classics for a reason", but I recognize that as a white person the use of n****r will not have the impact on me that it clearly does on this woman's child and many others.

What do you think GAF?

 

[Slayven]

“America is still deeply uncomfortable with its racial history,” LaRue said. He said that hiding the books — which many consider seminal works of American literature — amounts to “forgetting history.”

Yes, can not be said enough

 

[The Jackdog]

america has a very difficult time looking at itself in the mirror

 

[Ultramantaro1]

Terrible idea. I would go as far as to say that Finn should be required reading in all schools. It makes an outstanding case against racism, and the language is a necessary part of the story.

 

[Saroyan]

The same reason why this person wants the books banned is why they need to stay in the curriculum. Young people need to see the ugly parts of American history so that we can all try to do better going forward.

 

[Toth]

It's an excellent way to promote discussion among students of the zeitgeist and racial culture that existed when these books (as well as the time periods they convey) were published.

Are they going to next deny that by today's standards that Abraham Lincoln may be considered racist?

 

[DragonSworne]

It's an excellent way to promote discussion among students of the zeitgeist and racial culture that existed when these books were published.

And still exist to this day.

 

[MGrant]

Huck Finn is the first Great American Novel. Can't teach American Lit without it. It'd be like teaching US History without the Bill of Rights.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

He said that hiding the books — which many consider seminal works of American literature — amounts to “forgetting history.”

100% this.

If there was one thing that I hated above all else in my adolescence, it was being treated like I was unable or too dumb to understand serious concepts like this. Do your jobs and actually teach.

 

[SpaceWolf]

"I can't just sit on my daughter's bed and just say n***er all night!"

 

[Amory]

america has a very difficult time looking at itself in the mirror

Generally I agree, but it's a good thing that these books are part of the high school curriculum, and they absolutely should stay a part of the curriculum.

Pretty sure when I was in school parents/kids were given the option of not reading Huck Finn because of the use of racial slurs and instead reading something else, but I don't think anyone did

 

[The Jackdog]

Generally I agree, but it's a good thing that these books are part of the high school curriculum, and they absolutely should stay a part of the curriculum.

Pretty sure when I was in school parents/kids were given the option of not reading Huck Finn because of the use of racial slurs and instead reading something else, but I don't think anyone did

oh i think they should absolutely be part of the curriculum.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Fuck that, we need to be teaching our children about racism every day. You can't clean it up because its ugly as shit.

 

[Media]

It's crazy that when it was published Huckleberry Finn was controversial because it was too progressive.

I don't think it should be banned, but be taught in context and make sure the kids understand the time it came from.

 

[DrunkShogun]

Don't ban the books. Creates conversation and lets the children be aware of the horrible history. If it's a tough read then relegate it to silent reading. If it makes it uncomfortable, it's good to hear because it shows how bad racism is.

 

[Tugatrix]

Freedom !!! From what I recall from Mockingbird the racial slur happen to caracterize a society heavily racist and segregated, the book messages against racism and segregation. So the parent who made the complain either doesn't read the book or has bad intentions.

 

[Keasar]

We've gone through the same here in Sweden with some books like Tintin and Pippi Longstocking, featuring some not very updated depictions and words (Tintin using some very racially charged depictions of black people in one of his books and Pippi used to sing about her father being the "Negro King" while in Africa).

None of the books ended up being banned but the Pippi books got some word changes and the specific Tintin books (which are more comics) are usually moved behind the counter and can be requested, if I remember the outcome correctly. Which sounds to me like a acceptable compromise.

I am not for the ban of books either, but I can fully understand if you maybe wanna take some books to the back of the library so not as make them as easily available for more impressionable people (children), especially school libraries. It is important to remember however that people like Creationists can take cues and ask for the ban/hiding of scientifically based books as well, so tread lightly when it comes to this.

 

[sazzy]

Its as if some Americans are determined to take regressive steps in every way imaginable.

 

[clearacell]

You can't teach history without the ugly parts as well. hiding our past doesn't allow us to see our progress, how would we ever learn from our mistakes?

 

[E92 M3]

Censorship is never ok - those books are fundamental pillars of American literature.

 

[Deleted member 20415]

A Parent... A parent! One person.

This stuff has always killed me. Banning of any book is patently stupid. A pointless exercise to make people feel good.

Let's go to Mark Twain for his take on this: “Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it.”

 

[Angelus Errare]

Yes, can not be said enough

America's really good at "forgetting history"; then turns around and wonders "why we so racist?!"

 

[The Last Wizard]

America's really good at "forgetting history"; then turns around and wonders "why we so racist?!"

.

 

[jroc74]

I say no. Dont ban them.

Like with movies it shows the mentality at the time it was created. And thats not a bad thing.

I watched The Godfather 1 and 2 this weekend. Some ppl might be taken aback by some of the dialogue in it but if it fits the period, time, context I dont see a problem.

 

[LionPride]

So ban two amazing books because they say nigger instead of educating your kid to not say racist shit. Can't forget the past. America's is ugly.

 

[n00bsauce87]

In her remarks to the Accomack school board, Rothstein-Williams said she understands that the works are considered classics, but she worries that they teach students it is okay to use racially charged words.

If you are letting a book influence your kid to say racially charged words over your own influence to have your kid NOT say them, your parenting ability should be questioned. Censoring a book will not do anything especially if it'll fall under the Streisand Effect. Just tackle it head on and talk to your kid about what these words mean in the context of the era that this book was written in.

Let's go to Mark Twain for his take on this: “Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it.”

I like this Mark Twain guy.

 

[Bowdz]

Banning books is never alright especially when they are considered to be seminal works of American literature.

 

[pigeon]

Washington Post article




(More article at the link.)

I saw a bit of the article in the paper this morning and thought it an interesting discussion point.

I am generally against banning books in schools. The last big push for banning the Harry Potter books because they 'promote occultism' is a pretty good example of the "thought" that usually goes into a call for a book ban. All too often the groups calling for a ban see something they do not like and rather than face it would rather hide away from it. That does not seem to be the case here however: Mrs. Williams even acknlowledges the books are classic literature.


Part of me wants to say "they're classics for a reason", but I recognize that as a white person the use of n****r will not have the impact on me that it clearly does on this woman's child and many others.

What do you think GAF?

Literally both these books are about the moral emptiness of racism. Huckleberry Finn is about a boy deciding he would rather go to hell than turn in his escaped slave friend.

Arguably the failure of our schools and media to face up to the moral imperatives of liberalism and equality is why Trump won.

 

[D4Danger]

In her remarks to the Accomack school board, Rothstein-Williams said she understands that the works are considered classics, but she worries that they teach students it is okay to use racially charged words.

if only there was a person who could provide some context

but since that's impossible burn everything made before 2015.

 

[Johndoey]

The same reason why this person wants the books banned is why they need to stay in the curriculum. Young people need to see the ugly parts of American history so that we can all try to do better going forward.

Exactly, we can't hide from our own history. Besides of any possible books from that era to ban it certainly shouldn't be Huck Finn or Tom Sawyer.

 

[tbm24]

To have this charged weighed against to kill a mockingbird, when you consider what the book is even about, hurts me to think about.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

Why do I get a feeling people who want these books banned are due to their message and using the language in it as a scapegoat for their own agenda.

 

[kmfdmpig]

If you are letting a book influence your kid to say racially charged words over your own influence to have your kid NOT say them, your parenting ability should be questioned. Censoring a book will not do anything especially if it'll fall under the Streisand Effect. Just tackle it head on and talk to your kid about what these words mean in the context of the era that this book was written in.



I like this Mark Twain guy.

Yup. Such a silly mindset for the parent to have. Does Macbeth teach children it's OK to kill a visiting king? Does Lord of the Rings teach us that we should throw rings into volcanoes? People, even children, don't blindly mimic whatever they see/read/play.

 

[liquidtmd]

If you read TKAM and your main takeaway is that 'heehee saying naughty words is ok' then education probably isn't for you anyway

 

[dreamcastmaster]

Huck Finn is the first Great American Novel. Can't teach American Lit without it. It'd be like teaching US History without the Bill of Rights.

I learned English lit without it. You do speak English in America right?

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

I learned English lit without it. You do speak English in America right?

That's a separate subject. American literature is literature written in America while English Literature is literature written in England.

 

[liquidtmd]

'I don't hate TKAM, some of my favourite books have black people in'!!

 

[ClosingADoor]

They are products of their time. Hiding them is ignoring history and should not be done. Keep them in. If it is part of a lecture, teach kids about it instead of pretending it wasn't ever there.

 

[Sephzilla]

“America is still deeply uncomfortable with its racial history,” LaRue said. He said that hiding the books — which many consider seminal works of American literature — amounts to “forgetting history.”

This is so incredibly true

 

[dreamcastmaster]

They are products of their time. Hiding them is ignoring history and should not be done. Keep them in. If it is part of a lecture, teach kids about it instead of pretending it wasn't ever there.

Which is why the statement to that fact at the start of that Tom & Jerry collection was so perfect.

 

[HStallion]

It sounds like one of those parents/people that either never read the book in the first place or did read it and picked up nothing of the context, the themes or ideas or anything else and just saw some use the N word. Seriously this parent could probably do to go back to school themselves.

 

[jroc74]

Literally both these books are about the moral emptiness of racism. Huckleberry Finn is about a boy deciding he would rather go to hell than turn in his escaped slave friend.

Arguably the failure of our schools and media to face up to the moral imperatives of liberalism and equality is why Trump won.

Why in the world would they wanna ban this over language?

Slavery days wasnt a pleasant time. No need to try to sugar coat it, hide it.

Then if you do this where does it end? A great movie and book, Precious(Push) is about a very traumatic time a young girl went thru. It doesnt have the same impact if you try to sugar coat what happened.

 

[iPorygon]

“America is still deeply uncomfortable with its racial history,” LaRue said. He said that hiding the books — which many consider seminal works of American literature — amounts to “forgetting history.”

Growing up in almost exclusively white, middle class neighborhood, you get taught almost none of the negatives of society up until middle school. The real extent I learned was that Abraham Lincoln freed the slave and MLK jr. had a dream and that America was the greatest country in the world (can you tell that this is post-9/11). I'm not saying we need to tell 1st graders everyday that they have white privilege, but hiding history or even teaching wrong history (i.e. Christopher Columbus) should really not be done if we want to address the problems of the past (and present). As others have said, just teach it with the context of when it was written to create lessons about that era.

 

[Eumi]

That's a separate subject. American literature is literature written in America while English Literature is literature written in England.

No, Eng Lit is Literature written in English. American lit is a sub topic of Eng Lit.

Or at least it was in my (British) secondary school.

 

[Falchion]

Yeah, please don't do this schools.

 

[Deleted member 20415]

No, Eng Lit is Literature written in English. American lit is a sub topic of Eng Lit.

Or at least it was in my (British) secondary school.

We segment everything here - British Literature (Brit Lit as the cool kids would say), American Literature, 18th Century Literature, etc. There's subject matter, time periods, all in courses.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Quintessential (white) American cowardice on race. Not only hiding from our past but dismissing the themes and context of both novels "because the n-word." I can't think of many things more anti-intellectual or anti-education than banning books, especially seminal ones like these two.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

No, Eng Lit is Literature written in English. American lit is a sub topic of Eng Lit.

Or at least it was in my (British) secondary school.

At least in my(US) high school they were separate subjects which you could choose to go into either after a general course in the subject as they are two related but divergent literary traditions.

 

[liquidtmd]

Maybe CTRL+F the said word and replace with nitwit? Nagger? NNNNGGGHHAAAA?

 

[Downhome]

Idiots, those in the article and those who defend it.

I also fully believe that films like "The Birth of a Nation" should be taught and studied in any and all film classes as well, and that's about as offensive as it gets.