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WaPo: Muppet creator’s family speaks out about the firing of Kermit's puppeteer

K

KSweeley

Member
EDIT: Here's Steve Witmire's blog post: https://stevewhitmire-muppetpundit.com/2017/07/11/its-time-to-get-things-started/

Here's the response from Cheryl Henson:

Pagusas said:
OP, do you want to add the actual Facebook post in question?

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Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...bitter-depressed-victim/?wpisrc=nl_amk&wpmm=1

With his enormous mouth, cheerful eyes and frantic way of talking, Kermit always seemed like a joyous frog.

But Kermit's personality appeared to change in recent years. At least that's how Cheryl Henson, the daughter of Kermit's creator Jim Henson, saw it.

So in October, Kermit's longtime puppeteer, Steve Whitmire, was fired from Muppets Studio. After months of silence, last week he posted a blog item critical of the decision, calling it a ”drastic action" that left him devastated.

In response, Cheryl Henson reportedly took to Facebook to criticize Whitmire's version of the beloved frog. Whitmire, who took over the role when Jim Henson died in 1990, ”performed Kermit as a bitter, angry, depressed victim," she said.

”Steve's performance of Kermit has strayed far away from my father's good hearted, compassionate leader of the Muppets," Henson wrote. ”Worst of all," she added, in the past few years ”he has not been funny or fun."
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G

geomon

Member
Admittedly I haven't watched The Muppets in probably 25 years. Was Kermit that bad? Was he ready to hang himself or something?
 
P

peppermints

Member
Serious question, what sort of media have the Muppets been in recently other than that cancelled show to accurately judge the performers performance?

The last movie was what, 2013?
 
F

FF Seraphim

Member
The hell kind of shows were she watching to make that kind of observation? Did I miss some new muppet show where Kermit was a bitter old man?
 
smokeymicpot

smokeymicpot

Beat EviLore at pool.
peppermints said:
Serious question, what sort of media have the Muppets been in recently other than that cancelled show to accurately judge the performers performance?

The last movie was what, 2013?
Click to expand...

They put out youtube videos every few weeks if I am not mistaken.
 
S

smurfx

get some go again
wtf i never thought of kermit as being depressed. sounds like the daughter and others are looking for any excuse to kick this guy out and probably replace him with somebody cheaper.
 
M

MechaX

Member
I read this article and it feels like I am missing a step or story in between.

Her criticism doesn't even make sense.
 
H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
AlexFlame116 said:
What? I never once thought any of the things she said about Kermit. Something more is going on.
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Yeah that's what I'm wondering. The whole muppet show they put out was pretty cynical through out and it wasn't just Kermit. I'm sure Whitmere could be a pain in the ass but he's been doing the part for decades. I'm curious what really went down.
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
I mean, I definitely didn't really like Kermit in the Jason Segel Muppets movie or the Muppet Show reboot (didn't see the second movie) but I don't see how much of that was on Whitmire.

Reading between the lines of all this though, including Whitmire's own statements, I get the impression he was a giant pain in the ass.
 
G

Glendemonium

Member
Whitmire, who took over the role when Jim Henson died in 1990, ”performed Kermit as a bitter, angry, depressed victim," she said.
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You'd be depressed too if you were in an abusive relationship with Ms. Piggy.
 
G

grumble

Member
HStallion said:
Yeah that's what I'm wondering. The whole muppet show they put out was pretty cynical through out and it wasn't just Kermit. I'm sure Whitmere could be a pain in the ass but he's been doing the part for decades. I'm curious what really went down.
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My guess is show got cancelled, the tone was a bit less cheerful than they were going for, and the people in charge were hunting for a scapegoat.
 
R

Random Human

They were trying to grab your prize. They work for the mercenary. The masked man.
I guess Kermit has a somewhat depressed quality in the first Segel movie, but I always thought that was the writing of the character more than anything else. This is really weird.
 
L

LinkSlayer64

Member
Did anybody read the article?

But days later, Disney executives gave the New York Times a more detailed account behind the decision.

Debbie McClellan, head of the Muppets Studio, a division of Disney, told the Times that Whitmire displayed “repeated unacceptable business conduct over a period of many years.”


Some of Henson’s family members told the Times they agreed with the decision to replace Whitmire.

“He played brinkmanship very aggressively in contract negotiations,” Lisa Henson, president of the Jim Henson Company, and Jim Henson’s daughter, told the Times, adding that Whitmire staunchly opposed casting an understudy for Kermit.

Brian Henson, the company’s chairman and Jim Henson’s son, said that Whitmire “would send emails and letters attacking everyone, attacking the writing and attacking the director.”
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Devil's advocate, I don't know who is telling the truth or if both sides are equal in blame.
 
F

FF Seraphim

Member
LinkSlayer64 said:
Did anybody read the article?



Devil's advocate, I don't know who is telling the truth or if both sides are equal in blame.
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Well if Disney has the proof... they should at least publish snippets of it so the public understands. You have a guy who has been Kermit for over 20 years and was asked by Jim's wife to be Kermit, unless I see some damning proof it is hard for me to believe their side over his.
 
K

Kor of Memory

Member
I'm not agreeing with the woman, but I can see how someone could form that opinion. However, I would argue that this had little to do with the person, and way more to do with the scripts.

When the Muppets came out back in 2011, Kermit's character was very somber. He was sad that he was no longer in the good old days. He also didn't feel like much of a main character. He was plot-centric, but he literally wasn't the lead.

Then you had Muppets Most Wanted which while obviously was just a humorous take on a story of Kermit going to a sad Russian Prison. Kermit had the B plot of the movie, while the entire rest of the cast (including an evil Kermit) had the spotlight.

Finally, you had The Muppets. The Office parady with the documentary style comedy. The show had a running arc that involved Kermit longing for Piggy, but dating another pig. He basically had the same emotions as Jim from the first two season of the office (or Tim if you spell color: colour), which definitely was not his energetic leader of the Muppets that we grew up with in the past.


But like I said, this has way more to do with the scripts and writing that it would the voice.
 
N

Netherscourge

Banned
I can't get into the newer Muppets.

I don't think it's because Kermit was angry or depressed or whatever she's claiming.

I just think guys like Jim Henson and Frank Oz are irreplaceable.

Jim Henson and Frank Oz and the other puppeteers were the stars. It was THEIR personalities coming through the Muppets, not the other way around.

Once they all left, it just wasn't the same.

Not for me anyway. I even had trouble with Jim's son taking over. It still didn't feel right. It didn't feel like the same Kermit.

But, that's just me. I can't get into the newer Sesame Street either. There is just a disconnect between the newer cast and the original people that I can not bridge. It just looks and feels different.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
Something else must be going on beneath the surface. This seems so bizarre. What a weird and vindictive statement from Henson's daughter.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
grumble said:
My guess is show got cancelled, the tone was a bit less cheerful than they were going for, and the people in charge were hunting for a scapegoat.
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I'm highly skeptical of that narrative. It would be the fault of the showrunners, not the actor. He's just a performer, they wouldn't toss him over the failure of that show.

I know everyone wants to believe the tortured artist vs the big corporation thing, but I could see how after 27 years he might think he's irreplaceable. His job is to perform the character, even if he disagrees with the writing, it's his job. Then you mix in the fact that the Hensons don't seem to care for him very much, and I imagine that has been the case for awhile. I don't think that animus came out of nowhere. The Muppets got sold off over a decade ago, they really don't have any motivation to throw him under the bus.
 
G

geomon

Member
“He played brinkmanship very aggressively in contract negotiations,” Lisa Henson, president of the Jim Henson Company, and Jim Henson’s daughter, told the Times, adding that Whitmire staunchly opposed casting an understudy for Kermit.
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And what's wrong with that? Is he supposed to just take whatever they give him?
 
O

Oregano

Member
So Cheryl Henson says Kermit was bitter and depressed and unlike classic Kermit, Brian Henson says Steve Whitmore wrote emails attacking the writers and directors?

Wonder if those two things could be related...
 
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