Support NeoGAF

[Narpas Sword0]

I sympathize with those who view Obama as a disappointment. His great flaw was his need for bipartisanship and it took him far too long to see the modern Republican Party's opposition to him as the existential threat it was.

But I do think that speaking openly about this was a no-win situation for him. It would have been perceived as election meddling because we now have a propaganda system dedicated solely to advancing right-wing causes and about half of our voting population believes whatever that propaganda system pushes out. I think he was trying to preserve democratic norms and hoping that the country could institutionally and covertly resist the attempts of foreign influence.

I think he probably thinks that getting openly involved would have caused even greater damage, possibly even undermining the entire election process and faith in a peaceful transition of power. As always, Obama had too much faith in the better angels of American citizens. He was wrong, and he failed.

What a terrible decision to have to make and live with.

Qft

I was for Obama in the primaries in 08, but I kind of wish Hillary had won then and we could have had an Obama run in 16

 

[War Peaceman]

I sympathize with those who view Obama as a disappointment. His great flaw was his need for bipartisanship and it took him far too long to see the modern Republican Party's opposition to him as the existential threat it was.

But I do think that speaking openly about this was a no-win situation for him. It would have been perceived as election meddling because we now have a propaganda system dedicated solely to advancing right-wing causes and about half of our voting population believes whatever that propaganda system pushes out. I think he was trying to preserve democratic norms and hoping that the country could institutionally and covertly resist the attempts of foreign influence.

I think he probably thinks that getting openly involved would have caused even greater damage, possibly even undermining the entire election process and faith in a peaceful transition of power. As always, Obama had too much faith in the better angels of American citizens. He was wrong, and he failed.

What a terrible decision to have to make and live with.

Agreed. If Obama had come out and said it, it would have undermined the claims and appear politicised. McConnell himself was pressuring them to keep quiet or they'd do exactly that.

The crux of the issue is that there are millions of Americans who are without decency or intelligence. They support and embrace an incompetent, racist, idiotic charlatan.

Clinton should have won because Trump should not have been elected by any decent electorate. That is not Obama's fault, that is the fault of a Republican party and media operation that has debased itself in pursuit of power and wealth. But most of all it is the fault of the millions of Americans who voted for Trump. The USA is in peril because of them. Your president embraces Putin's attacks of the USA. Everything is wrong.

 

[benicillin]

Agreed. If Obama had come out and said it, it would have undermined the claims and appear politicised. McConnell himself was pressuring them to keep quiet or they'd do exactly that.

The crux of the issue is that there are millions of Americans who are without decency or intelligence. They support and embrace an incompetent, racist, idiotic charlatan.

Clinton should have won because Trump should not have been elected by any decent electorate. That is not Obama's fault, that is the fault of a Republican party and media operation that has debased itself in pursuit of power and wealth. The USA is in peril because of them. Your president embraces Putin's attacks of the USA. Everything is wrong.

I mean this doesn't really matter though. GOP is gonna GOP. This is like when people said we shouldn't filibuster them because they might get rid of the filibuster, when they could just do it whenever they want anyway. Now the American people are finding out about a massive attack on our democracy months later with an uncooperative and actively hostile White House that is undermining our basic rights on the daily, all because Obama was too scared to come out and tell people what was happening.

It's incredibly frustrating. Yeah, people should have voted Hillary, but people also should have been aware of all the problems with Trump's campaign and their involvement with Russia before we gave him the keys to the country. Obama was basically playing a game of chicken and lost.

 

[Yoshi]

Putin will only win if sanctions get lifted.

The EU is extending economic sanctions. They hacked Macron and failed miserably, they will try the same with Germany but there is no party that could get so many votes to help them lift sanctions.

I think this is not entirely clear. Remember that the same party has lead the German government for 12 years now, which does not make it too unlikely that there are actually some realy things to discover that might make a few important candidates in the party look horrible. Probably not Merkel, she does not seem of the same super-corrupt kind as Helmut Kohl, but after such long time in power, there might be quite a bit to find there. This would not lead to a far right wing party taking over the reigns, but it's all a matter of what they want to achive. Maybe a new chancellor might still be easier to deal with than one that has been chancellor for 12 years.

 

[War Peaceman]

I mean this doesn't really matter though. GOP is gonna GOP. This is like when people said we shouldn't filibuster them because they might get rid of the filibuster, when they could just do it whenever they want anyway. Now the American people are finding out about a massive attack on our democracy months later with an uncooperative and actively hostile White House that is undermining our basic rights on the daily, all because Obama was too scared to come out and tell people what was happening.

It's incredibly frustrating. Yeah, people should have voted Hillary, but people also should have been aware of all the problems with Trump's campaign and their involvement with Russia before we gave him the keys to the country. Obama was basically playing a game of chicken and lost.

I refuse to blame people who act in good faith to preserve the decent, democratic norms of a country when they are faced with people who care only about power. You can give many ifs and buts, but there is one group who deserves blame and it is the Republican party, specifically McConnell and Trump. They are responsible. They deserve the blame.

 

[Deepwater]

I refuse to blame people who act in good faith to preserve the decent, democratic norms of a country when they are faced with people who care only about power. You can give many ifs and buts, but there is one group who deserves blame and it is the Republican party, specifically McConnell and Trump. They are responsible. They deserve the blame.

This was literally Obama's job to respond to this but okay. Both sides can't possibly be at fault here.

 

[winjet81]

So, since cyber meddling in elections clearly pays off, how many nations are starting to get in line to affect the 2020 election?

 

[StormKing]

Qft

I was for Obama in the primaries in 08, but I kind of wish Hillary had won then and we could have had an Obama run in 16

Hillary would probably lose in 2012 even if she won in 2008.

 

[KernelPanic]

Sounds like GOP more or less controlled him. He wanted to appear bipartisan and coming out might have made things worse. He would have received the GOP projection attack that the Democrats are interfering with the election which is ironic.

Problem seems the GOP that vilified the president to this point and have a brainwashed voting base that believe it.

No easy answers here.

 

[Raven117]

Russia successfully smashed a massive hole in America democracy and elected their own puppet lunatic.

Kinda incredible that they pulled this off so perfectly.

Honestly, they just gave it a little push. America was effing ready to self-inflict this wound. It was a perfect storm...and Putin just rode the wave.

 

[texasairhead101]

The way the Obama admin got played into a corner with this situation is truly fascinating.
The way things are coming out it's hard to not think votes were not tampered with in the 21 confirmed states even though the statements say otherwise.

 

[UCBooties]

Honestly, they just gave it a little push. America was effing ready to self-inflict this wound. It was a perfect storm...and Putin just rode the wave.

The election of Donald Trump or someone like him became inevitable when American conservatives realized that they could delegitimize the news media in the eyes of their followers and replace it with their own propaganda network.

 

[Cagey]

Sounds like GOP more or less controlled him. He wanted to appear bipartisan and coming out might have made things worse. He would have received the GOP projection attack that the Democrats are interfering with the election which is ironic.

Problem seems the GOP that vilified the president to this point and have a brainwashed voting base that believe it.

No easy answers here.

The job of President Obama was not to act in a superficially bipartisan manner as a method of fulfilling partisan aims of keeping Democrat Candidate Clinton's chances to win the election alive and healthy.

The job of the President of the United States was to respond to Russia's brazen aggression.

 

[smokeymicpot]

I sympathize with those who view Obama as a disappointment. His great flaw was his need for bipartisanship and it took him far too long to see the modern Republican Party's opposition to him as the existential threat it was.

But I do think that speaking openly about this was a no-win situation for him. It would have been perceived as election meddling because we now have a propaganda system dedicated solely to advancing right-wing causes and about half of our voting population believes whatever that propaganda system pushes out. I think he was trying to preserve democratic norms and hoping that the country could institutionally and covertly resist the attempts of foreign influence.

I think he probably thinks that getting openly involved would have caused even greater damage, possibly even undermining the entire election process and faith in a peaceful transition of power. As always, Obama had too much faith in the better angels of American citizens. He was wrong, and he failed.

What a terrible decision to have to make and live with.

This. If the GOP didn't have a candidate yelling that it was a rigged system. Maybe it would have been different but chances are it wouldn't have. No was in a no-win situation.

 

[TheOMan]

Before concerning yourself with the source, correct the result.
Given the staggering amount of evidence, the current election result should be considered void, a transition government should be put in place, and new elections should be scheduled for early (Jan//feb 2018)..
That's what a sensible approach is, but 'murica you're more concerned about punishment and retaliation than fixing the problem at hand...

This right here.

 

[UCBooties]

So all that stuff about how fraud in the voting system was impossible or extremely negligible was just fake news?

Well, most voter ID laws are targeted at preventing in-person voter fraud, voter roll manipulation, or... weird busing conspiracies, which have been shown to be non-existent.

Actual manipulation of the data in an election is something that has been a known threat and concern for over two decades with the transition to electronic voting machines.

When some says voter fraud, its important to know what kind of fraud they are referring to.

 

[EGM1966]

Before concerning yourself with the source, correct the result.
Given the staggering amount of evidence, the current election result should be considered void, a transition government should be put in place, and new elections should be scheduled for early (Jan//feb 2018)..
That's what a sensible approach is, but 'murica you're more concerned about punishment and retaliation than fixing the problem at hand...

I agree but problem is I suspect GOP seem a lot more interested in staying in power that risking taking the honest route and accepting the compromised nature of their win.

 

[Version 3.0]

Obama spent far too much of his time in the White House playing nice with the GOP. He seemed to think that they'd "snap out of it" and start treating him like a president. Or even like a person. Or that the public would punish them for their racism and obstruction.

His late term inaction was catastrophic. There should've been lawsuits over Merrick - at least attempt to clarify whether the Senate has to do its Constitutional duty. Now there's precedent that it doesn't, and I wouldn't be surprised if the GOP never acknowledges a Democrat president's Supreme Court nominee again.

And this Russia stuff should have been made as public as possible. Letting fear of GOP spin determine a course of (in)action is monumentally stupid. They're going to spin anything and everything, so just ignore them and do the right thing.

 

[ZOONAMI]

I wish they would have went public with this. I think it would have killed turnout for the traditional GOP base and Hillary would have won by a landslide.

 

[GregLombardi]

Guess it's not a secret anymore.

To half the American electorate it is.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Obama spent far too much of his time in the White House playing nice with the GOP. He seemed to think that they'd "snap out of it" and start treating him like a president. Or even like a person. Or that the public would punish them for their racism and obstruction.

His late term inaction was catastrophic. There should've been lawsuits over Merrick - at least attempt to clarify whether the Senate has to do its Constitutional duty. Now there's precedent that it doesn't, and I wouldn't be surprised if the GOP never acknowledges a Democrat president's Supreme Court nominee again.

And this Russia stuff should have been made as public as possible. Letting fear of GOP spin determine a course of (in)action is monumentally stupid. They're going to spin anything and everything, so just ignore them and do the right thing.

There was already precedent for sitting on a sc justice apt, or no?

 

[wildfire]

Putin got nearly half of US voters going to bat for him. That's one helluva L the U.S. took.

It's not like the rest of the world isn't getting dragged down by this. Still this is a loss we have to live with for a life time.

 

[Version 3.0]

There was already precedent for sitting on a sc justice apt, or no?

No, not for denying a nominee even a hearing. Of course there have been fights over seats, but those did not include just ignoring the nominee. And no attempt to deny a seat in the past went on for anything close to as long as this one.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

This whole, "let's not do rational things because 40% of the country is fucking stupid" praxis is a cancer.

A malignant one.

 

[Kusagari]

He should have went public regardless of Mitch's threats.

I just think he didn't want to take the risk because he, like people in both parties, thought Trump had zero chance anyway.

We're all paying the price for the political landscape constantly underestimating Trump.

 

[Damerman]

It was a no-win situation, and with the exception of Laden, Obama's default mode is to not make bold moves, so not really surprised.

This is my main take away. The theme of all obama policy was passiveness.

Hopefully people learn that cyber attacks are very serious and can happen on a scale that has material consequences for national security. Its crazy how inscrutable the concept of the internet still is to some people.

 

[Zenner]

Amazing article; it's like a complete timeline. The craziest part is, after struggling with all the partisan disagreements on how to proceed (if at all!), the decision is made to just get the information to the public... and I know we all remember which piece of news got the non-stop coverage. :'(

“The U.S. intelligence community is confident that the Russian government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from U.S. persons and institutions, including from U.S. political organizations,” the statement said. “We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia’s senior-most officials could have authorized these activities.”

Early drafts accused Putin by name, but the reference was removed out of concern that it might endanger intelligence sources and methods.

The statement was issued around 3:30 p.m., timed for maximum media coverage. Instead, it was quickly drowned out. At 4 p.m., The Post published a story about crude comments Trump had made about women that were captured on an “Access Hollywood” tape. Half an hour later, WikiLeaks published its first batch of emails stolen from Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta

.

The ratings-based news channels can GTFO, for all I care.

 

[Mauddib]

Russia successfully smashed a massive hole in America democracy and elected their own puppet lunatic.

Kinda incredible that they pulled this off so perfectly.

LOL you're giving Russia too much credit. Sure, they probably swayed a few people to vote for Trump, but some key States been leaning towards electing a guy like Trump for a while now.

 

[Pomerlaw]

Russian didn't make Trump win. They tried to help, but americans made the turd win.

Was there a chance that this thing could have ended up with WW3? Obama using the red line and saying words like "'armed conflict"...

I hope Russia's economy keeps going down the drain...

 

[Jmanunknown]

He should have went public regardless of Mitch's threats.

I just think he didn't want to take the risk because he, like people in both parties, thought Trump had zero chance anyway.

We're all paying the price for the political landscape constantly underestimating Trump.

Its not Trump that people underestimated its a certain segment of the population of The US that was underestimated. Its the old saying

"Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it."

A lot of people forgot just how stupid, deceitful, and down right mean a large chunk of the voting public can be these are the same people who elected George W Bush one of the worst presidents in history. These same people spent 8 years trying to demonize and de-legitimize the president of the united states at the time because he happened to be half black. These same people then said you thought George W Bush was a bad president we can do a lot worse here we will show you and make you wish Bush was still president.

 

[MIMIC]

LOL you're giving Russia too much credit. Sure, they probably swayed a few people to vote for Trump, but some key States been leaning towards electing a guy like Trump for a while now.

This is what's starting to annoy me. Yes, Russia meddled in the election, but they did not get Trump elected. As a Democrat, it's starting to get tiring hearing everyone scapegoat the Russians. Just because Putin said "Hurt Hillary and help Trump," that doesn't mean you can attribute the results to him. That is just completely short-sighted thinking (unless there's data to support this, of course). Putin certainly didn't help Trump defy all odds and steamroll the Republican candidates. Whatever got him over those hurdles clearly got him over the last one. In hindsight, that is what everyone should have been worried about.

Hillary was never that well-liked to begin with. Just look at the 2008 election season. You either like her or you don't, and I'm not sure how much influence a Russian could have on the identity of a widely and historically known political figure. Also, I don't know how much the Russians could possibly "help" Trump given that every single day there was a reason for why he was the worst candidate in the history of mankind.

Giving the Russians credit for this election is just a little too over the top for me, all things considered. There were wayyyyyy to may other relevant factors in play.

 

[Beerman462]

Obama fucked up when he told Trump he would never be president.

 

[Bleepey]

This was literally Obama's job to respond to this but okay. Both sides can't possibly be at fault here.

Could you imagine if Obama said Trump was colluding with Russia. The right wing press would have shat on him like crazy.

 

[benicillin]

Could you imagine if Obama said Trump was colluding with Russia. The right wing press would have shat on him like crazy.

Which makes it different from any other day how exactly?

 

[Krauser Kat]

just another case of a black man having to be twice as careful and twice as smart to get anything done. I do wish he would have just walked into congress like, negan and got shit done.

 

[Bleepey]

Good point. I just hope the next democratic president has a majority so high that they only reach across the aisle to give a middle finger to the republicans face.

 

[Pyrrhus]

There's no other way to read this but a failure.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Putin is the most important political figure of the century so far. And he's been running rings around his political opponents.

 

[antonz]

Which makes it different from any other day how exactly?

You would have had massive bloodshed if Obama had come out against Trump and said there was Foreign Collusion.

I know people who voted against Trump but still think all this collusion stuff is a plot by Obama to get back into the White House.

 

[Nephtes]

Obama's secret struggle?

Russia tried to interfere with our election... But come on.
Clinton was going to win.
The polls all showed it.
I thought she was going to win for sure.
Everyone even the Trump campaign thought she was going to win.

The only reason the Obama administration didn't come out with the Russia story during the election was because they thought Hillary was going to win in a land slide and they didn't want to hurt Hillary's first days in office by tainting her win with the Russian scandal. That's the only reason anything had to be secret about it.

 

[ICO_SotC]

Just think In some alternate universe, Obama intervened, Trump won anyway, and Obama is being blamed for intervening.

Could you imagine if Obama said Trump was colluding with Russia. The right wing press would have shat on him like crazy.

Not just the right wing press, people who exist in the fabled "mainstream" media like Chuck Todd, Joe Scarborough, Chris Mathews, etc would feel compelled, in the name of "fairness", to "debate" and "discuss" whether Obama did this to hurt Trump and help Hillary.

 

[War Peaceman]

This was literally Obama's job to respond to this but okay. Both sides can't possibly be at fault here.

They announced it at a certain point and they started investigations and responses. Announcing it to the public is not the single only thing that can be done. When the effort of Putin is to delegitimise the US political process, it could even have played into his hand.

Putin is the most important political figure of the century so far. And he's been running rings around his political opponents.

eh, his country is in the shitter. For all his fucking around ho has Russia been improved? The sanctions are still there.

Could you imagine if Obama said Trump was colluding with Russia. The right wing press would have shat on him like crazy.

Exactly. McConnell is on record has having threatened him that they would do so. Clinton called him a puppet of Putin on stage. The crazies are all aboard, but politicising it would have undermined support from independents. Independents are stupid people with no self-awareness.

Also they did make an announcement but it was overshadowed by the pussy grab tape. The media dropped the ball too.

 

[Pomerlaw]

Putin is the most important political figure of the century so far. And he's been running rings around his political opponents.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ns-living-in-poverty-as-economic-crisis-bites

 

[Nerazar]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ns-living-in-poverty-as-economic-crisis-bites

The same situation as with the Soviet Union, then. And that was a respected(?) superpower back in the day.

 

[samoscratch]

Big mistake by Obama, we were owed that information no matter what.

Our government let us down in several ways...damn...

 

[cameron]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/878413313188802560

So, not a hoax then?

 

[Regulus Tera]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ns-living-in-poverty-as-economic-crisis-bites

You speak as if Putin cares about the well being of the Russian citizenship. He's an oligarch trough and through. He's in it for the money and the political power.

 

[RPGCrazied]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/878413313188802560

So, not a hoax then?

What a moron. Confirmed it all in a single tweet. I guess no more on camera briefings. His own words destroy him, pretty comical at this point.

 

[BatDan]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/878413313188802560

So, not a hoax then?

Every time he tweets something, I can just see Mueller writing in a little note pad.
Shaking his head in amazement that someone he's investigating is so openly willing to tell him EVERYTHING

 

[nocturnedelight]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/878413313188802560

So, not a hoax then?

I can't believe this is real.