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Warhammer 40,000 |OT| In the Grim Darkness of the Community Forum There Is Only War

I don't understand their reasoning with not being able to target characters. They say they can't join units to stop you using that unit as a way to hide the character...but doesn't their new way just increase the problem? If you can't target them unless they're the closest thing, then aren't players just going to stick either a cheap throwaway unit or a really durable unit just infront of that character at all times? So it's gone from having to take out just the unit they're part of, to having to take out every unit infront of them?

Looking over the post now and I don't think they say hiding the characters was a problem. There just pointing out that since they can no longer hide in a unit, there's still a way to stop your characters immediately getting shot off the board. Like Fou-Lu said, it's more about killing off Deathstars.

Wonder if transports will allow multiple units on board now. Can't imagine a character having to requisition a transport all to themselves.
 
Looking over the post now and I don't think they say hiding the characters was a problem. There just pointing out that since they can no longer hide in a unit, there's still a way to stop your characters immediately getting shot off the board. Like Fou-Lu said, it's more about killing off Deathstars.

Wonder if transports will allow multiple units on board now. Can't imagine a character having to requisition a transport all to themselves.

Ah you're right, i misunderstood it. Wouldn't just making it so you can only have 1 character per unit have solved it, though? It's been a long time since i played so i'm not entirely sure how it works.
 
Ah you're right, i misunderstood it. Wouldn't just making it so you can only have 1 character per unit have solved it, though? It's been a long time since i played so i'm not entirely sure how it works.

This way you can still have multiple characters near a unit and gain protection from them. If you only allow 1 character any others nearby are going to get shot up. The keyword system should fix the deathstar issue though so I don't know why they've gone this route.

It's going to be weird when there are dedicated bodyguard units like incubi and tyrant guard that the characters can't be part of. Drazhar having to run around being independent of an incubi unit is really weird. Obviously you can keep them in close proximity but there's a chance that if you charge them at something one will reach and the other will fail and be left behind. Drazhar could run into an enemy squad and suddenly be wondering where the rest of his mates have got to.

For anyone playing Shadow Wars Armageddon, I made GW's roster sheet into a fillable PDF:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/okiakyamgdo2a1r/ENG_SWARoster_Fillable.pdf?dl=0

Nice work!
 

Fou-Lu

Member
Ah you're right, i misunderstood it. Wouldn't just making it so you can only have 1 character per unit have solved it, though? It's been a long time since i played so i'm not entirely sure how it works.

Doesn't solve the issues with mixed toughness and armour saves.

Personally I prefer the idea of the characters moving about the battlefield giving orders to different units instead of moving about with a big blob of models for some reason. 40k has been stuck with the weird IC rules for a long time. Both are abstractions, but joining units seems odder to me.
 
I love how this first Ultramarine book opens with a one-sided fight of Uriel and other Ultramarines slaughtering people, so much so that I thought "This is going to be a boring read if they just rofl stomp everyone..." but then within 10 pages I'm already getting the answer I was hoping for. Man, these Chaos Space Marines are too cool. In a fucked up way.
 

Bradach

Member
Is there any rumoured release date for 8th edition?

Trying to get an idea if we're talking next month or 6 months.

Might hold off on getting any new models if it's soon
 

Bradach

Member
Good stuff. Hopefully there's a good supply when they do launch. Shadow wars launched in Ireland with 17 copies for the whole country!
 

Mindwipe

Member
Good stuff. Hopefully there's a good supply when they do launch. Shadow wars launched in Ireland with 17 copies for the whole country!

The Specialist Games are short run, because they don't want to be stuck with a Dread Fleet situation again (despite the fact Dread Fleet died because it was too expensive).

But that won't happen with 40K, because there's no risk of inventory sitting.
 
The talk above had me considering what immediately comes to mind when I pose myself the question:

"What part of the fluff would you like for GW to rewrite, even using the opportunity of 8th edition to ignore previous cannon?"

Mine would be the size of Space Marine chapters, from 1000 to 10,000, and Legions to 100,000, especially if we are sticking to the ~1000 chapters line. It would feel like a more much realistic number, given that each chapter would need pilots, plenty of scouts, support personnel, units held back at base, units to train new recruits, drivers/gunners in tanks etc.

May's White Dwarf pretty much says that June's issue will be all about 8th Edtion.

Yeah everything seems to be pointing to either 10th or 17th June.
 

Maledict

Member
I'd rewrite the elder timeline tbh. It doesn't make sense, particularly the notion of it being the birth of slaanesh which led to the warp storms cutting off humanity during the dark ages of technology. I'd put the fall of the elder much further back than it is currently, to avoid the issue of how the hell mankind spread over the entire galaxy which was simultaneously under the complete control of an all powerful elder empire.

Oh, and I'd probably change the chaos gods lore. Their current incarnation as ravening screaming murderers doesn't make much sense from their perspective, I'd probably take them back to being a bit more neutral than the pure evil they are now - representing both sides of the coin of their natures.

Both extremely minor, nit picky things but hey I'm a lore nerd!

Edit: I'd go further actually, and bring the war in heaven forward massively. It doesn't make sense that there was this giant conflict between the first races of the galaxy, which resulted in both the orcs and elder being created, and then basically nothing for literally millions upon millions of years. The war in heaven should have occurred a hundred thousand years ago or so, then the elder empire and the slow Orc rise in the east, then the fall of the elder, then the rise of humanity, then now. The numbers they use for dates are all way too long (compared to space marine numbers which are way too small...). That would also allow for Nurgle, Khorne and Tzeetnch to have arisen from older races that have subsequently died out, rather than the current weird set up where we think they might have arisen from humanity (which makes no sense...).
 

Fou-Lu

Member
Weapons Part 2 article up!

New40kWeapons2TwinHB.jpg


New40kWeapons2CombiMelta.jpg


New40kWeapons2BatCan.jpg

Combi weapons are actually great now instead of sucking like they used to.

Meltaguns are about what I expected them to be.
 

Meteorain

Member
Reading some of this 40k SM vs real-life army was somewhat amusing to read.

Although, Tabletop vs Fluff fighting is somewhat different. SM don't really all line-up on the field Old World style and fight it out (They can....but they don't).

All the stories so far have them go in as a strike force on high target areas and not just willy nilly waving their swords around lol
 

Ohnonono

Member
Picked up a box of Grey Knights, and a box of Tau Pathfinders. Local store didn't have some of the other onces. Excited to start thinking about how to base them and paint them and stuff. Also have never painted Grey Knights. I want to do something cool with them. I like their colors but I want them to look kinda grimy and battleworn.
 
Picked up a box of Grey Knights, and a box of Tau Pathfinders. Local store didn't have some of the other onces. Excited to start thinking about how to base them and paint them and stuff. Also have never painted Grey Knights. I want to do something cool with them. I like their colors but I want them to look kinda grimy and battleworn.

It seems like it might be a bit more difficult to do that with Grey knights than other Chapters, as their armour is unpainted ceramite so you can't really do battledamage by scratches and chips showing the bare metal underneath.
 

Tacitus_

Member
Picked up a box of Grey Knights, and a box of Tau Pathfinders. Local store didn't have some of the other onces. Excited to start thinking about how to base them and paint them and stuff. Also have never painted Grey Knights. I want to do something cool with them. I like their colors but I want them to look kinda grimy and battleworn.

Lava bases would probably be pretty cool on the GKs. There's a great tutorial on their youtube channel, but it is a bit labour intensive.
 

Ohnonono

Member
It seems like it might be a bit more difficult to do that with Grey knights than other Chapters, as their armour is unpainted ceramite so you can't really do battledamage by scratches and chips showing the bare metal underneath.

Part of me was thinking or rusting them up a bit, using a good bit of shading. May actually avoid metallics and try to make them a darker grey color.
 

Ohnonono

Member
Ended up with the 10 man grey knight box. That seems pretty straght forward as to how to kit them out (any pro tips are welcome.)

The other group was a box of Rubric Marcines cause I like them more than the regualar CSM kit. Gonna be interesting to get ahold of special weapons if I need them. May need a power fist, or a sword I can steal from AoS Tzeench guys. Also I can mix zome Zangor parts with the cultists to make them look a bit warped. As far as WYSIWYG stuff It may be hard. Thney dont have autocannons, or many of the heavy stuff the regular CSM squad had.

What do you think I should buy next? I can get terminators for the grey knights easy enough. But I could also look for more parts to convert the Rubric Marines more.

What say you gaff!
 

Lupercal

Banned
Ended up with the 10 man grey knight box. That seems pretty straght forward as to how to kit them out (any pro tips are welcome.)

The other group was a box of Rubric Marcines cause I like them more than the regualar CSM kit. Gonna be interesting to get ahold of special weapons if I need them. May need a power fist, or a sword I can steal from AoS Tzeench guys. Also I can mix zome Zangor parts with the cultists to make them look a bit warped. As far as WYSIWYG stuff It may be hard. Thney dont have autocannons, or many of the heavy stuff the regular CSM squad had.

What do you think I should buy next? I can get terminators for the grey knights easy enough. But I could also look for more parts to convert the Rubric Marines more.

What say you gaff!

Going for full armies or smaller squads ?
If you're full I'd complete the Grey Knights first, get some Terminators, maybe a Dread and an Inquisitor HQ.

Chaos has waaay more options but I'd wait for the 8th edition, who knows what the 4 powers will get.
 
What does everyone make of GW saying that there might be new races, possibly towards launch? Straightforward as it sounds or could it be a bit more cryptic?
 

Lupercal

Banned
What does everyone make of GW saying that there might be new races, possibly towards launch? Straightforward as it sounds or could it be a bit more cryptic?

Probably a new Space Marines faction / chapter as hinted at in the Guilliman videos.

And off course new models, iterations of existing units etc..
 

Geist-

Member
Probably a new Space Marines faction / chapter as hinted at in the Guilliman videos.

And off course new models, iterations of existing units etc..
Didn't they say it wouldn't be a faction? They were just reinforcing existing chapters with easy-bake Marines?

I'm going with the Eastern and Western Roman Empire approach and say that the new faction will be Imperium Nihilus. How they'll make them unique I have no idea, but that seems to be the most obvious choice.

Also, new article up: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/11/new-warhammer-40000-datasheetsgw-homepage-post-4/

New40kDatasheetsRubric.jpg
 
It seems a bit info-heavy at a first glance, but the sheer convenience of having all the info to play on the datasheets is exactly what I've been wanting. 40k has been nigh impenetrable for me recently after a few years out of playing, so I'm really looking forward to digging into 8th edition.

I like the power level style of points for narrative/open too, no more faffing around trying to optimise points for gear, just take what's cool. That's my jam. Close enough is good enough when it comes to balancing, I say, since even the most balanced point system is at the whim of the dice.
 

Ohnonono

Member
Going for full armies or smaller squads ?
If you're full I'd complete the Grey Knights first, get some Terminators, maybe a Dread and an Inquisitor HQ.

Chaos has waaay more options but I'd wait for the 8th edition, who knows what the 4 powers will get.

This stuff is pretty much just for SW:A. So I don't mind kitbashing heavey bolders or somethin glike that one the rubric guys.
 

Houndi101

Member
I guess hoping a whole range true-scale marine revamp is too much but I wonder if bow-legged marines are gonna look extra goofy next to true-scale ones?
 

Bradach

Member
A friend of mine was chatting with staff in dublins Games workshop today. They told him it'll be out "early June" as speculated and the starter kit will have ultramarines and death guard
 
Very cool. I hope 8 power level is a more balanced point representation then what they are worth now.

I'm looking forward to the difference between Power Level and Points (which they're posting on tomorrow). Having both a rough gauge (Power Level) and a granular gauge (Points) will make getting a game going a bit easier I suspect. Less instances of "I really don't feel like making a list" when it's "meh, X power level is good enough".
 
Is there a good place online where I can read about ranks and such in the Warhammer universe for the empire? I'm deep into Ultramarine book 1, and was hoping to understand the world, but this book feels like it expects you to have some understanding already. Basic things I don't understand the weight of like Primarch and Chapter Master.
 

Nazo

Member
Is there a good place online where I can read about ranks and such in the Warhammer universe for the empire? I'm deep into Ultramarine book 1, and was hoping to understand the world, but this book feels like it expects you to have some understanding already. Basic things I don't understand the weight of like Primarch and Chapter Master.

The Lexicanum wiki is your friend for all your lore questions:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page
 

cntr

Banned
The Wikia's full of fanfic and made-up stuff, so stick to the Lexicanum.

(plus the Lexicanum has an infinitely better website design!)
 

EYEL1NER

Member
Started book 7 of the GG series a big ago, Straight Silver. I made it a couple dozen pages in and then set it aside for tomorrow morning. I plowed through a ton of The Guns of Tanith earlier and after that ending, I had to start the next one. I mean, with Gol Kolea
taking a shot to the back of the head
and Bragg
getting killed in a shitty way
? I hope they do something big with Koleadown the line because I felt like it would have been better
if he died. I felt like that would have made more sense with the lame death for Bragg: A great death for Kolea after he rescued Caff and Criid, and a dirty death for Bragg. I'm not upset at the fact that Bragg died though, but I felt like it could have been done in a better way, with him stumbling into a trap that Cuu set for him and realizing what was going on too late, rather than him getting hit in the head and then stabbed in the heart. A bop on the head took him down? Damn, he's suffered worse injuries than that!
I raved about the tank battle in Honour Guard before this, the stuff with the pilots was really good in this one. I kind of want to put Straight Silver down and read Double Eagle real quick, but I'll save that for when I run out of GG books and have to wait for whatever I don't own to be delivered. The murder mystery stuff, while brief, was also cool. Abnett does something a little different in each book and it's paying off.
 

Bradach

Member
If the starter set does have death guard will I be able to add them to the chaos marines I got in the dark vengance set and have a legit battle forged army in 8th edition?
They're nurgle and khorne right? Are they 'sub factions' of chaos?
 
If the starter set does have death guard will I be able to add them to the chaos marines I got in the dark vengance set and have a legit battle forged army in 8th edition?
They're nurgle and khorne right? Are they 'sub factions' of chaos?

Of sorts.

So this is how it would go to mix both armies-

Your HQ/Command unit would have to be a chaos unit of the Black Legion
Your Khorne and Death Guard would become Elite choices in your army, and they would have their respective marks and abilities.

The chaos units from the Dark Vengeance are technically Crimson Tide, which is a Sub-faction of World Eaters(So a Sub-Sub-faction of Chaos Space Marines), and the models in the Dark Vengeance starter can be played as Black Legion.

So you can definitely use them together. It's just when you use a matching HQ choice(Nurgle or Khorne), those units become Troops instead of Elites. The downside is if your leader is say, a Nurgle HQ, you can't field any other faction other than units with marks of Nurgle(So no Rubric or Khorn Berzerkers). The flip side is they usually get to field nastier things.
 

T8SC

Member
This is totally unrelated to anything in this topic really but I wanted to comment as I used to play Warhammer 40,000 when I was younger (11-13). I got into it because I loved the whole atmosphere and how grim it all looked. I had played Hero Quest & Space Crusade before I got into Warhammer 40,000. Unfortunately the club I used to go to ceased to exist and I lost interest as I became an adult and got involved with other things. In recent years I've picked up several of the books, some omnibuses and a lot of the early Horus Heresy books too as the universe is still interesting to me, this was sparked by the Dawn Of War game on PC years ago and then further with the Space Marine game on PS3.

I enjoy reading this topic and seeing the models being painted (Also the miniatures topic), always nice to see insights made by other people. I'll never really get the chance to play the game again as my life is too busy but I can at least read the novels (That Humble Bundle was a great bargain recently) and play the games when they release.

It's a shame the universe hasn't blown up like the Marvel one has, I think Games Workshop could have a serious hit on their hands if they went down that route.
 

Ohnonono

Member
So now. I have nice bases coming in for all my kill teams. I have my 10 man Rubric Marines to run as Tzeentch marked. I also bought a 10 man normal Chaos Marine squad to take the special weapons I might need that arent in the Rubric box. Also got 5 cultists who I may kitbash a LITTLE with some parts from my AoS tzeentch stuff. Also May use a pink horror with a little kitbashing as a Chaos Spawn.

Grey knights I have a 10 man squad and a 5 man terminator squad.

Any thoughts on some effective ways to build out my models is appreciated. I don't want to build them all with shitty stuff!!

Edit- Also found a really awesome group of guys that play every Saturday night at my local shop that is like 2 miles from me. They are super nice and said every sat. is to play smaller games, paint/kitbash/trade parts, and set up times that you can play other people if you want to set up a campaign with someone. They also have Prizes they give out for best painted, best moment, and best lore behind your kill team. Was amazing to walk into a shop I go to all the time and find such a great group. They are also prepping for 8th edition so I may actually have a good group for that too.
 
New Warhammer 40,000: Points & Power Levels - https://www.warhammer-community.com...-points-power-levels-may12gw-homepage-post-4/

In the new Warhammer 40,000, you’ll find there are two ways to balance your games.

Yesterday, we saw that Datasheets include something called a Power Level. This is a rough approximation of a unit’s relative effectiveness on the battlefield. These can be used to very quickly throw together two roughly equal forces to fight a battle. Or, in the case of some narrative and open play scenarios, will determine who takes what role in the game. For example, if you’re playing the “Ambush” mission, the side with the highest total Power Level for their army will always play the role of the attacker, where the smaller enemy force will need to escape the trap.

New40kPointsPowerMap.jpg


Power Levels are a great way to very quickly get a roughly balanced game organised and started, but they do not account for the various wargear options and upgrades a unit can have. For this level of granularity, you have points. These will be just as detailed as they are now, right down to points for individual weapon upgrades on every squad member. For example, a Tactical Marine Squad of five models is Power Level 5, but in a matched play game, each of those Tactical Marines would cost 13 points each, with upgrades ranging from a grav-pistol for the Sergeant at 7 pts, all the way up to multi-meltas at 27 pts. The full squad totals up at a similar number of points to what it costs today. With faster play times for most games, we’re expecting matched play games of a couple of hours to sit around the 2,000 points mark.

In matched play, your points will be capped across the whole game. So if you’re planning to summon units to the battlefield, you will need to set points aside to do this. You won’t need to specify what the points will be for though, so this does leave you with your options open and if during the game, you decide that what you really need is a fast combat unit instead of a durable objective holder, you’ll be able to summon the right tool for the job, points permitting. You will no longer be able to indefinitely replicate Daemon units, and instead, summoning will be used more as an alternative mechanism of deployment, much like deep striking or outflanking is today (both of which exist in their own forms in the new Warhammer 40,000 too).

The points for units don’t appear on the datasheet but will be elsewhere in the same book. This is because you don’t need them to play if you don’t want, which frees up room to include more rules for weapons on the datasheet. It also means that, in the future, points for units could change without invalidating existing books – so if one unit or weapon starts to dominate tournaments, or certain units don’t seem to be carrying their weight in competitive games, we can address the balance.
 
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