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Warhammer 40,000 |OT| In the Grim Darkness of the Community Forum There Is Only War

F

Fou-Lu

Member
A return of Sanguinius might actually make me start a BA army. He was one of my favourite primarchs along with the Lion and Khan.
 
T

TheVoidDragon

Member
I really hate all these rumours about more Primarch's coming back. It completely defeats the point of those aspects of the setting in the first place. A return of Sanguinius would be outright stupid, i think. It would just throwing away/retconning yet even more parts of the lore for no justifiable reason in a way that would literally be shoved in just because.
 
F

Fou-Lu

Member
I think the Primarchs are a part of the setting that GW has never really leveraged despite being some of the most popular characters in the setting so their return makes a lot of sense from a business point of view. I also just like seeing the setting advance after so many years.
 
L

Little Old Man

Member
Though I missed the gathering storm developments as they happened, I'm really liking the direction that GW is taking the galaxy in. There's advancement in the Gully returning, and beginning a new crusade with the aid of new tech and marine chapters, but the ridiculously​ huge warp storm that cuts the galaxy in two (and the chaos and instability this creates) keeps matters from feeling like it will be a cakewalk for the Imperium. That feeling of the Imperium teetering on the edge remains.

Btw what's the​ end result with Cadia itself? Does the planet still exist? Is it a nuclear wasteland? Are there still Imperium forces fighting on it or in the system?
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
Little Old Man said:
Btw what's the​ end result with Cadia itself? Does the planet still exist? Is it a nuclear wasteland? Are there still Imperium forces fighting on it or in the system?
Click to expand...

Well this is the art they used in the book:
save.PNG


But the system is still there and they had an article on how it'll be an active war zone even after the planet is gone.
 
G

GarthVaderUK

Banned
Little Old Man said:
Btw what's the​ end result with Cadia itself? Does the planet still exist? Is it a nuclear wasteland? Are there still Imperium forces fighting on it or in the system?
Click to expand...

It's in ruins, but seems like the Cadians are gearing up to reclaim what's left of it. There was a little update here: https://www.warhammer-community.com...-40000-war-zone-cadia-may6gw-homepage-post-4/

We saw the fall of the fortress world as the catalyst that began the events of the Gathering Storm. Abaddon's greatest Black Crusade smashed against the defences of the planet in overwhelming force, but not before the world's defenders enacted a devastating toll on the attackers.

The planet's stubborn defence also bought the Imperium precious time to entrench forces on neighbouring worlds and systems; siege works were dug, artillery emplaced, and weapons raised to the sky to await the coming onslaught.

Abaddon was successful though, and following the fall of Cadia (and possibly, because of it) a great warp rift rent the galaxy in half, allowing the forces of Chaos to launch their attacks across the entire length of the Imperium.

As they dispersed, though, their strength around the Cadian Sector – as well as in and around the Eye of Terror itself – thinned. Many warbands of Traitor Legionaries and renegades, some in direct disregard of the Despoiler's orders, used the opportunity to bypass the defenders of the Gate entirely and launch their attacks on more vulnerable worlds elsewhere in the galaxy.

This has left huge numbers of Imperial defenders deployed around Cadia awaiting a coordinated Chaos second wave that may never come. There are whispers in Imperial Sector Command of the possibility of retaliatory strikes, of claiming back some territory lost in the recent war, and even of reclaiming the ruins of Cadia herself.

Poised around the Eye sits a force of Space Marines rivalling that of the Legions of old, entire Knight Households, and of course, the orphans of Cadia themselves – more than 200 regiments of Astra Militarum shock troops eager for vengeance.

Cadia may have broken; the Guard, have not.

We're sure a few of you Imperial players have been itching for retaliation since the Storm came to Cadia. Maybe your time is now...
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A

AbsolutBro

Member
Hyams said:
It looks as though drones (and so probably suits too) have lost the jump-shoot-jump movement they had before.

Plus markerlights appear to have been nerfed (1ML is now re-roll 1s to hit, rather than the +1BS in 7th).

Stormsurge can no longer shoot twice per turn.

Hard to judge from such little information, but you might well find the Tau are more balanced overall than 7th.
Click to expand...

Geist- said:
What the guy above said, but also all Sniper Rifles can pick out characters, it's not just a Tau thing.
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haha, sorry, that post sounded way more pissy than I actually meant it. I have never fought against a stormsurge; my buddies Tau got stolen from his car and while insurance money got him all of it back, he has yet to assemble anything. Mostly I hate fighting him because his luck is the absolute worst (best). I'm looking forward to playing Shadow Wars: Armageddon against him though, just to watch him constantly run out of ammo.

Drones auto-bodyguarding even against sniper weapons is some straight up bullshit though.

Edit: auto-bodyguard in the sense they don't have any opportunity cost to do it, just be there. They circumvent the rule for sniper weapons.
 
S

SillyEskimo

Member
EYEL1NER said:
Oh man, I just realized that Valhalla is cut off from Terra and the Imperium. That sucks for them...
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Time for some of the older armies to step up! I love the idea of a place like Valhalla fighting and winning against all odds while being cut off and alone. Honestly, it would be equally cool t hear they fought the good fight, but ultimately lost and were wiped out. I have a feeling this new setting is going to have a lot of casualties. I want to read about their stories and play those scenarios.
 
T

TheVoidDragon

Member
At the moment new units are only released when a new Codex was, so every few years, does not requiring a Codex and rules being updated whenever they're needed mean they could also end up releasing units for different armies more often?
 
F

Fou-Lu

Member
https://www.warhammer-community.com...es-and-deep-striking-may17gw-homepage-post-4/

Reserves article up!

New40kReservesSubterrain.jpg

So we can see that this will be quite a powerful ability. Not only delivering the Trygon into the heart of the enemy force, but also an accompanying unit of Tyranids. And there’s nothing stopping them from charging this turn either! Though that 9″ distance to the enemy (which is common to a lot of units with similar abilities) will mean that the averages on the dice will be against you for that 2D6 charge distance. (You can always use your Command Re-roll of course…)
Click to expand...

New40kReservesRule-500x276.jpg
Click to expand...
 
J

Jinaar

Member
TheVoidDragon said:
I really hate all these rumours about more Primarch's coming back. It completely defeats the point of those aspects of the setting in the first place. A return of Sanguinius would be outright stupid, i think. It would just throwing away/retconning yet even more parts of the lore for no justifiable reason in a way that would literally be shoved in just because.
Click to expand...

But yet is it great that Abaddon is still around after 10K years trying so hard to be so bad while doing it so poorly? (besides killing untold numbers, he still hasn't gotten Terra)

I feel that anything goes in this universe and I'm just glad to be on for the ride. Also, I believe the lore after decades can use some adjustments here and there.
 
T

TheVoidDragon

Member
Jinaar said:
But yet is it great that Abaddon is still around after 10K years trying so hard to be so bad while doing it so poorly? (besides killing untold numbers, he still hasn't gotten Terra)

I feel that anything goes in this universe and I'm just glad to be on for the ride. Also, I believe the lore after decades can use some adjustments here and there.
Click to expand...

I find the "it never progressed!" thing somewhat absurd. It suggests that nothing ever changed but the lore has received plenty of updates over the years. There has been a huge mount of new stories, lore, characters, units etc being released all the time. The one thing that didn't change was the actual setting...because it was a setting.

W40K is a background setting GW (and players) to make/sell miniatures and similar things, it's not a story that is ever meant to have any sort of resolution. Stories themselves within that setting are fine being resolved, but the setting itself shouldn't change because that's not what it's there for, changes to that setting as a whole defeat the point of having it in the first place. New stories and such aren't a problem but when it comes to something that affects the basic premise and themes of the setting, that is bad, and that's what it seems we're getting here if things keep going the way they are. Something like the Imperium suddenly having hope and no longer being stagnant or broken, or the Emperor coming back back or dying, or having the Primarchs all return are all the sort of thing that would remove very important parts of the setting to the point it would no longer be W40K because those foundations for the setting would be gone. It would sort of be like asking for Star Wars to advance and remove the Force, Jedi, Sith, lightsabers etc from the setting entirely.
 
M

Maledict

Member
I don't think they are changing the setting that much - the ridiculous Eldar changes, purely to copyright the name, are more aggregious to me. The stuff with the primarchs just makes good business sense.

Let's face it - the Horus Heresy and the primarchs are probably the most favourite part of the lore. There are a billion books about these guys now, and fans clearly love them. Yet because of the lore, GW are unable to actually do anything with some of the most popular characters they have. By reintroducing a couple, they can shift the setting very slightly to give them new models and heroes to release, make a lot of fans very happy, and make bank.

Monetarising the primarchs is a really sensible business decision, cold as that sounds.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Maledict said:
I don't think they are changing the setting that much - the ridiculous Eldar changes, purely to copyright the name, are more aggregious to me. The stuff with the primarchs just makes good business sense.

Let's face it - the Horus Heresy and the primarchs are probably the most favourite part of the lore. There are a billion books about these guys now, and fans clearly love them. Yet because of the lore, GW are unable to actually do anything with some of the most popular characters they have. By reintroducing a couple, they can shift the setting very slightly to give them new models and heroes to release, make a lot of fans very happy, and make bank.

Monetarising the primarchs is a really sensible business decision, cold as that sounds.
Click to expand...

Eldar changes? Copyright? You got an article on this, sounds juicy
 
L

Leunam

Member
Dark Eldar are going to be called Drukhari. I'm totally cool with that change. Not sure what the Eldar changes are though.
 
M

Maledict

Member
BreezyLimbo said:
Eldar changes? Copyright? You got an article on this, sounds juicy
Click to expand...

I'm referring to both the dumb name change to Aeldari, and also the fact the entire storyline and concept of the Eldar has been changed. Bringing back a couple of primarchs and advancing the storyline slightly for the imperium isn't really changing much, whereas the Eldar have just lost one of their most prominent craftworlds, and the entire theme of the race changes - they've gone from 'clinging onto survival' to now having their God of the Dead and uniting behind them. That to me feels like a much larger change of theme and setting.
 
M

Mr_Antimatter

Member
The imperium has advanced, but also taken a few steps backward. Sure, a primarch returned, giving them, at last a figure to rally behind, but at the cost of several key worlds suffering losses, and a warp storm tearing the imperium in half.

My guess is as one or more primarch return, the imperium will all but be torn in half between rival demigod aligned factions. Not all returning primarchs will see eye to eye with each other after 10,000 years, and even fewer see eye to eye with the massive corrupt imperial institutions.

What would be most interesting to me is if some of the more obscure primarchs returned like Khan or Corax. Would people rally around them the same way they do ole Rob G?
 
C

Cosmic Schwung

Member
Maledict said:
I don't think they are changing the setting that much - the ridiculous Eldar changes, purely to copyright the name, are more aggregious to me. The stuff with the primarchs just makes good business sense.
Click to expand...

They've had Eldar trademarked since 1992. I'm pretty sure most people will keep calling them that, just like Astra Militarum and Imperial Guard.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Maledict said:
I'm referring to both the dumb name change to Aeldari, and also the fact the entire storyline and concept of the Eldar has been changed. Bringing back a couple of primarchs and advancing the storyline slightly for the imperium isn't really changing much, whereas the Eldar have just lost one of their most prominent craftworlds, and the entire theme of the race changes - they've gone from 'clinging onto survival' to now having their God of the Dead and uniting behind them. That to me feels like a much larger change of theme and setting.
Click to expand...

I see

Thats right I remember lore wise they were all kinda tied to their craftworld with the threat of Slaanesh tempting them to dark eldarness.
 
C

cntr

Banned
Aeldari isn't a name change, the Ynnari are trying to revive the pre-Slaanesh empire and unite all Eldar factions, and so they're using a "classical" word for the Eldar race.

They're still going to be the Eldar. And most of the Eldar aren't even behind the Ynnari thing.
 
C

Cosmic Schwung

Member
BreezyLimbo said:
I see

Thats right I remember lore wise they were all kinda tied to their craftworld with the threat of Slaanesh tempting them to dark eldarness.
Click to expand...

Dark Eldar want nothing to do with Slaanesh. She just wants to eat all their souls. A lot of what makes dark eldar so brutal is them having to offer up other souls in place of their own.
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
Maledict said:
I'm referring to both the dumb name change to Aeldari, and also the fact the entire storyline and concept of the Eldar has been changed. Bringing back a couple of primarchs and advancing the storyline slightly for the imperium isn't really changing much, whereas the Eldar have just lost one of their most prominent craftworlds, and the entire theme of the race changes - they've gone from 'clinging onto survival' to now having their God of the Dead and uniting behind them. That to me feels like a much larger change of theme and setting.
Click to expand...

It's not like the entire race has united as Ynnari. Vect is against them as are the Haemonculus covens. A bunch of craftworlders are as well, since there is a sizeable amount of DE Ynnari and they broke Biel-Tan.
 
S

SillyEskimo

Member
The Lion himself is not currently part of any storylines, so I don't think he would be brought out to play right now. The current fiction is around Ultras, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves. If they are releasing another Primarch, and that pic is a hint, then all signs point to Sanguinius. I would think Russ might return before the Lion too.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Wasn't the original Horus story that it was an unnamed imperial guardsman who shot at Horus that created the chink in his armour that the emperor used to end him? And then it was changed to Sanguinus and his fight with him?

Maybe they just go back to that version?
 
O

Ohnonono

Member
TheVoidDragon said:
At the moment new units are only released when a new Codex was, so every few years, does not requiring a Codex and rules being updated whenever they're needed mean they could also end up releasing units for different armies more often?
Click to expand...

It seems that way. Though AoS is already like this and they do tend to do faction updates still. They have updated Bloodbound and Stormcast more often though. I think it makes it WAY more likely to see something like new sisters and stuff like that though.
 
L

Lupercal

Banned
Maledict said:
Wasn't the original Horus story that it was an unnamed imperial guardsman who shot at Horus that created the chink in his armour that the emperor used to end him? And then it was changed to Sanguinus and his fight with him?

Maybe they just go back to that version?
Click to expand...

Sanguinius kept Horus occupied which allowed him to attack freely, haven't heard that guardsmen version yet.
 
S

SillyEskimo

Member
Lupercal said:
Sanguinius kept Horus occupied which allowed him to attack freely, haven't heard that guardsmen version yet.
Click to expand...

I don't believe the original version mentioned a "chink in the armor" at all. Horus killed a bunch of random Crimson Fists, then killed Sanguinius one on one. The Emperor came in and they fought one on one. The Emperor was holding back because he loved Horus and thought all was not lost in him. Then he saw the dead Crimson Fists and he went ape shit, killing Horus. I don't think it was seeing Sanguinius's corpse that put him over the edge.

I have the original White Dwarf all this was detailed in. I'll try to find it tonight.

All the other stuff was added later under the guise of 40k myth and legend since no one really knows.
 
L

Leunam

Member
There are two duels I'm familiar with.

One was Horus going toe to toe with The Emperor until he managed to find a weakness in his armor caused by Sanguinus just before. Horus briefly comes to his senses before his death.

The other was The Emperor holding back against Horus until a guardsman wandered into the bridge and Horus killed him immediately with a devastating glare. The Emperor took this as a sign that Horus was too far gone and killed him on the spot using his own Psyker capabilities.

I personally like the first version I read. Really plays up what the favor of the Chaos gods can do compared to the God-Emperor of Mankind.
 
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