Well then, way to show your true colors. I'm clearly wasting my time here. I wonder if you'd understand if you were in her shoes
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Waypoint: Inside the Sexual Misconduct Allegations Rocking NeoGAF's Last 48 Hours
- Thread starter Dineren
- Start date
Suddenly seeing a naked man in your shower, a man you have not consented to be there while you are in a vulnerable state is a fucking horrifying thing for pretty much any woman in existence. If you don't understand this you should probably talk to women. A majority of them have experienced sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape. There actually is horror in this scenario suddenly happening in your life. If you don't understand that I suggest getting more empathy and probably talking to more women and getting their experiences.
"Watch out! It's the naked man!" Usually doesn't end well for them. End of story.
mrqs
Member
I'm with you. In the Andy Signore case, i was against him. There were too many women coming out, it was pure chaos.
But in this case, it's she said he said. We shouldn't take sides, as a rational being would do.
I'm aware of the problems that women go through tho, it's harsh. It's terrible.
skullmuffins
Banned
It's not "a naked man in her vicinity", it's a naked man stepping in to the shower with her - in case you've never showered before, a shower is a small, relatively enclosed space, where she is also naked.
Walking into a woman's shower without permission is fucking creepy. If you don't get that, you're also a fucking creep.
The most ironic thing about this situation is that on 99 percent of the forums on the internet this would have blown over and nothing would come out of it.
But gaf and it's user base that evilore and his mods help cultivate is pretty much the only forum where members would be up in arms about what happened. Hell even the accuser forgave him and dated him afterwards.
But gaf and it's user base that evilore and his mods help cultivate is pretty much the only forum where members would be up in arms about what happened. Hell even the accuser forgave him and dated him afterwards.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Well first of all I'm drunk. So I'd imagine the edge would be off a bit.
Secondly I'd say"wtf get out" and then he leaves.
I'd be in the toilet and my male friends would bust in and piss in the sink cos im pissing in the toilet. We're all drunk/pukey.
I'm seeing their dicks. I don't call it assault I just say "can you leave me to piss in peace"
Watch out its the naked man!
paragonpro
Banned
I guess we need to hear more of both sides, i love gaf and i love the community that was here, ive been a member for the past 3 years, i hope we can get back to that but if the cards turn out against tylers favor, then its likely not a place ill stick around. But i hope it doesnt come to that.
Souless_PJ
Banned
So traumatic that she continued to hang out with him on multiple occasions and fucked him voluntarily afterwards.
But they ended up becoming friends and having sex later? I truly can't believe she was so horrified of him. Women don't forgive easily.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Yeah it's not a fucking womans shower though is it you pearl clutching spider monkey!
It's a shared bathroom a shared shower.
He makes a bold play, he.fucks up. It's a stupid story.
If you classify this as some kind of heinous assault I feel bad for your lack of interactions. Your lack of making mistakes. People make stupid fucking plays on women and their intention isn't always malevolent rape act.
Sometimes its just fucking stupid.
But if you want to live in a world where we're all inmates in.the show Oz that's cool.
Following this logic, people who claim domestic abuse but stay with their abusers are also just making shit up?
They do, though. Victims do. Seriously, go look it up. Read about it. It's a real phenomenon. It doesn't exonerate the original non-consent though.
Even if in some imaginary scenario she did laugh it off right then and there, something almost no woman alive would do because that's crazy, that still doesn't make the non-consenting act ok. That still doesn't make showing up in a woman's shower unannounced an ok thing to do. It doesn't make it not a fucking heinous thing.
It's the equivalent of waking up your friend with a knife pressed against their throat. I don't know, maybe they'd be into it, but if they end up being into it, that's still a really really messed up to do to someone who hasn't given any indication it's something they would somehow like.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Honestly. "Domestic abuse" "assault" "violent sex crime"
This act of savagery you sad cases are pearl clutching over.
Are you even able to envision it? It wouldn't even get above a PG13 rating if you made a screenplay out of it.
This is a comedy blunder that you're warping into silence of . the lambs.
Because you're weirdos
This act of savagery you sad cases are pearl clutching over.
Are you even able to envision it? It wouldn't even get above a PG13 rating if you made a screenplay out of it.
This is a comedy blunder that you're warping into silence of . the lambs.
Because you're weirdos
Yeah.
Also he's not exactly looking like he was in the right when he decides to gaslight half of his own forum, and bring out that half-assed statement. If he were truly innocent, that's the worst handling I've ever seen.
Not getting affirmative consent to show up in a woman's shower is not a fucking bold play.
People make stupid fucking plays on women all the time, yes. That's the issue. The number of people doing it doesn't excuse the act.
MrCookiepants
Member
Apocryphon
Member
They're not one and the same. He didn't initiate this, he responded.
I haven't referred to his response so far, but yeah, it sounds very outlandish. It's overly defensive and uses lots of very strong language. Tylers response in the 'state of NeoGAF' thread and his statement to the mods (if genuine) are open to criticism. What I object to is the mischaracterization of what she said happened as some sort or predatory assault, rape, or harassment and the childlike kneejerk response GAF users have had to it.
Conciliator
Banned
this is who ya'll gonna be left with, by the way
This forum is not Tyler Malka, it's the sum of its parts throughout time, it's us, the community.
I'm confident we can overcome these hard times if most of us want it to happen.
Stay strong, stay rational and don't let the maelstrom of vitriol and misinformation engulf you and take GAF in the process.
I'm confident we can overcome these hard times if most of us want it to happen.
Stay strong, stay rational and don't let the maelstrom of vitriol and misinformation engulf you and take GAF in the process.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Neither scenario makes sense.
No, it's absolutely not. Please stop. This is the sort of extremism that has GAF so hated.
The mentality of a victim doesn't 'make sense' sometimes. That's reality. Deal with it.
TheContact
Member
Eh theres some holes in her story. Like Evilore went into shower and she was apparently creeped out and it caused a bunch of shit with her BF, but then...has sex with him afterwards? All Im saying is that behavior wouldnt look good for her in front of a Jury. Olivia benson would have to spin some shit.
Based on both accounts, he did initiate it and she responded. Are you claiming she initiated it by showering or something?
You think that the reaction of people is only to one thing instead of multiple things.
1. She didnt say she was traumatized
2. Just because it didnt give her PTSD doesnt make it ok
3. Her having sex with him later doesnt make it ok
As far as I can tell, he never apologized or even said it was a mistake that goes for both the shower thing and the power move ass grab. Instead, he takes a page out of the Trump playbook and attacks the accuser, gets defensive, abuses his power to try and silence criticism.
Its pathetic.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Women make stupid plays too dude!
It's part of life. They're in a hotel room together. There's chemistry.
Then you got this awkward guy evillore thinking hes kate winslet in The Reader.
He tries, it fails utterly.
It's blitheringly stupid. But intention is the key here.
Because there's a difference between making a play out of notions of mutual attractedness.
And a studied rape attempt with malicious thought.
If you can't separate this. Then I really feel.bad for yall.
So if you think its a studied rape attempt. Real sexual assault. You shouldn't be here at all.
Because I fucking wouldn't be.
I just dont. Because it reads like a cluster fuck. Not a vicious attack.
Get real man.
sik witted
Member
Way to go Klepek for getting the SCOOPS. Dude's a badass, doing actual investigative reporting on shit that matters.
Second, I love GAF, been coming here for almost a decade. Its been an amazing place to come read about games, insight into the industry, and other's thoughts/opinions. I can't remember how many times I've come here and learned some hot news a week before a major news site picks it up. Like any forum, the strength lies in the community. Time will tell if GAF has the strength to rise again, I suppose. Its a bummer to think of this place becoming a ghost town.
My thoughts on this debacle are.. COME THE F' ON! I'm glad Klepek wrote the piece and shined some more light on the story.
It went from #metoo, I was sexually assaulted by evilore and everyone get their pitchforks shined up, TO
They are travelling together, sharing hotel rooms, getting lit. She had a boyfriend!!! (But at the same time, admittedly polyamourous, in an open relationship....so yeah, the boyfriend aspect has about zero relevance) and there was obviously some kind of relationship between the two, likely coupled with a good amount of sexual tension. They both get drunk, she goes to shower and "maybe leaves the door open partway" which could be interpreted a few different ways, (not saying it was supposed to be an invitation, but they're drunk and staying in a hotel room together here, could be easily misinterpreted) and dude tries to make an ill-thought-out move (sure, it was a little over the top way to break the ice) and she says no. He leaves.
Then the bombshell - "oh we had sex a few months later as I continued to travel with him." Oh, ok. Must have been a really horrible experience there a few months back. (Whoever claimed this is like a domestic violence victim coming back to her abuser - get real. Domestic victims come back to their abusers because of the long standing circle of abuse - the abuser has all the power, has stripped the victim of their self-worth and independence - financially and by cutting them off from their friends/family. Kids are often involved. They come back because the whole abuse cycle is designed to break them down, leaving is hard as fuck financially, and there are legit fears of violence to self/kids if they try to walk away. This woman has her own life, career, circle of friends/family/boyfriend and could've walked away at any point and never talked to this guy again. Not even remotely similar situation.) This makes me believe this whole interaction was no big deal when it happened, maybe even laughed about the next morning, and over the passage of time and a soured relationship, it becomes something else entirely.
When the whole story comes out, this seems more like someone who wanted to join the #metoo movement and came up with a salacious, half-truth of a story to join the club.
Don't think for a minute that I am an apologist for sexual offenders, I work in the court system and when someone goes to the pen for a sexual assault it FEELS GOOD. Fuck people that truly sexually victimize others, and part of me hopes they themselves get victimized behind bars to know what it feels like.
This though...c'mon.
Bringing me to my last point, BRING BACK OFF-TOPIC FORUMS. Talk like this has no business in a forum dedicated to video games
Second, I love GAF, been coming here for almost a decade. Its been an amazing place to come read about games, insight into the industry, and other's thoughts/opinions. I can't remember how many times I've come here and learned some hot news a week before a major news site picks it up. Like any forum, the strength lies in the community. Time will tell if GAF has the strength to rise again, I suppose. Its a bummer to think of this place becoming a ghost town.
My thoughts on this debacle are.. COME THE F' ON! I'm glad Klepek wrote the piece and shined some more light on the story.
It went from #metoo, I was sexually assaulted by evilore and everyone get their pitchforks shined up, TO
They are travelling together, sharing hotel rooms, getting lit. She had a boyfriend!!! (But at the same time, admittedly polyamourous, in an open relationship....so yeah, the boyfriend aspect has about zero relevance) and there was obviously some kind of relationship between the two, likely coupled with a good amount of sexual tension. They both get drunk, she goes to shower and "maybe leaves the door open partway" which could be interpreted a few different ways, (not saying it was supposed to be an invitation, but they're drunk and staying in a hotel room together here, could be easily misinterpreted) and dude tries to make an ill-thought-out move (sure, it was a little over the top way to break the ice) and she says no. He leaves.
Then the bombshell - "oh we had sex a few months later as I continued to travel with him." Oh, ok. Must have been a really horrible experience there a few months back. (Whoever claimed this is like a domestic violence victim coming back to her abuser - get real. Domestic victims come back to their abusers because of the long standing circle of abuse - the abuser has all the power, has stripped the victim of their self-worth and independence - financially and by cutting them off from their friends/family. Kids are often involved. They come back because the whole abuse cycle is designed to break them down, leaving is hard as fuck financially, and there are legit fears of violence to self/kids if they try to walk away. This woman has her own life, career, circle of friends/family/boyfriend and could've walked away at any point and never talked to this guy again. Not even remotely similar situation.) This makes me believe this whole interaction was no big deal when it happened, maybe even laughed about the next morning, and over the passage of time and a soured relationship, it becomes something else entirely.
When the whole story comes out, this seems more like someone who wanted to join the #metoo movement and came up with a salacious, half-truth of a story to join the club.
Don't think for a minute that I am an apologist for sexual offenders, I work in the court system and when someone goes to the pen for a sexual assault it FEELS GOOD. Fuck people that truly sexually victimize others, and part of me hopes they themselves get victimized behind bars to know what it feels like.
This though...c'mon.
Bringing me to my last point, BRING BACK OFF-TOPIC FORUMS. Talk like this has no business in a forum dedicated to video games
Revolutionary
Member
People who claim domestic abuse usually do so by going to the police. She did not. She stayed with him and continued to have relations - there is no evidence of trauma aside from a deleted Facebook message several years later. A Facebook message that also claimed she was harrassed several times that very same day by merely walking down the street.
No they don't. Have you ever known a domestic abuse victim? You know how fucking hard it is to get them to go to the police sometimes?
Entroyp
Member
Having had helped a close friend of mine to overcome an incident involving sexual assault, yea they surely dont forget. This was many many years ago and to this day she despises even the thought of being close to that person.
This is an entirely different situation, its not black and white. They kept on being friends and then lovers and there is even more than that. I Dont doubt that she is a good person but This might not have been the right way to approach the situation. And Ill repeat this should be solved privately between them.
balgajo
Member
Even though I try to have empathy to the struggles that women suffer everyday I prefer giving people the benefit of doubt when talking in an individual level. The destruction that such accusation can cause in someone's life is strong enough for me to prefer waiting for things to settle down and be handled by justice. Let's see what will happen in the following months...
EDIT: Being more clear. Some people kill themselves because the amount of harassment and pressure. I don't want someone to do this even if the person is guilty. The situation is even worst considering the possibility of the said person being innocent.
EDIT: Being more clear. Some people kill themselves because the amount of harassment and pressure. I don't want someone to do this even if the person is guilty. The situation is even worst considering the possibility of the said person being innocent.
IISANDERII
Member
Criminal law takes precedence over civil law so he is innocent and the burden of proof lay with the accuser.
Intention is key.
He intended to get into a shower naked with a woman who had not consented to it.
That's sexual assault.
Apocryphon
Member
No no, she initiated the current situation by dropping his name into the comments of her metoo post.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
The reality is that a woman accusing a man of sexual assult would later have consentual sex with him.
You deal with that.
I am dealing with that in saying that it's a thing that happens often and it doesn't negate non-consent.
He has accused the accuser of bringing him and a friend to people that drugged him and attempted to rape and abduct him and his friend.
While I agree with you, I think we need to be careful about over-dramatizing things. I'm not necessarily saying that this situation is being over-dramatized, but it possibly could. Is it possible that a drunk idiot misread a signal and walked into the bathroom expecting to get some, was told to leave, and then left? I think so. There are few things about this situation that need to be emphasized:
1. Tyler was sharing a hotel room with a girl he'd been drinking with. He was being a sexist piece of shit for assuming it'll be ok to just walk in on her naked. We're not sure what led him to do that - maybe he misread something, or maybe more than that. We do know that he walked out when she told him to leave.
2. He did not rape or physically assault her
3. The two of them continued to be friends and later on slept together
From some of the responses he's getting, you would think he actually raped her. I do think what he did leans closer to sexual harassment than sexual assault or rape. Only the victim knows how she feels about it. The fact that the victim later on rectified the situation as "that creepy thing he did while drunk" and stated she did not want to expose him definitely makes the situation much more complicated than a black and white "he sexually assaulted me" situation.
But then again, the way Tyler handled the situation, his responses to her, and his history of chauvinism also makes me hesitant to defend him.
All in all, I definitely believe her. I just think it is exaggerated...as the internet tends to make things. This entire situation could have been so much better it Tyler just owned his fuck-up.
Your point is absolutely valid. Her later pursuing an allegedly FWB relationship with him doesn't preclude him from any prior crimes. It's pointless arguing the specifics with what little evidence we have though.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
Great post by sik witted. Mostly agree w/ it, especially with how people are comparing the whole thing w/ domestic abuse.
crazepharmacist
Member
Exactly. If she is so horrified and disgusted by his actions why would she get into a consensual physical relationship with him afterwards? It just doesn't make sense.
Frankie Williamson
Member
IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.
It's a way to divest the shame and guilt of being sexually assaulted while trying to regain some agency in their own lives. It's an actual defense mechanism to the crippling issues that bombard victims of sexual abuse.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Yeah I do know them. Good rebuttal. Passive aggressive turd seems to be in vogue these days.
I'm telling you I don't see this as a sexual assault.
Because if I did I wouldn't be here.
I see this as an absolute failure in judgement brought along by booze and whatever chemistry they did or whatever evillore perceived they had.
He made a play and it was a bold play a really awkward play.
Naked Man. It wasn't very effective.
She said go away he went away.