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[Tablo]

As long as you keep denying the proliferation of blu-ray and built in wireless. It's funny that you actually believe the only thing Sony had going for the PS3 was the CELL. That's as short sighted as saying the only thing Microsoft has going for it was the restriction of physical media (which was an astronomically bigger blunder). Try to evaluate all of the sides.

Clearly Blu Ray was a good move, but seriously built in wireless? Of course that'd be better to have built in, but remember the 360 also dropped a year earlier so whatever. It goes without saying every side has its advantages, but let's not pretend integrated wireless is a game changer...

And frankly having physical media just act as an alternative for downloading was smart since internet speeds still suck for alot of people, now I have to download a 40+ gb file to get the benefits of what they originally had (for digital) for any way you purchased a game... Don't see why they couldn't keep it either way, but let's chalk that up to not wanting to complicate things too much.

I'm used to using Steam all the time so I really appreciate the benefits of digital only, hopefully internet speeds can go up fast so we can get over these dumb arguments over always online and physical media, things that should be non issues.

 

[ascii42]

How much of a market share change did we see between the ps2 and ps3?

Something like 75% down to 30%

 

[Eusis]

BP!!! My man! Nice find, I've got a few memorable ones of my own:

Funny how not only did it finally stop with Gran Turismo 5, but arguably GTAV sealed the deal given that it enabled the PS3 to beat the 360's track record of most systems sold in a month. But at this point it's not exactly that relevant...

 

[Jabba]

This thread got Chad Warden yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NH1iIL4Q3o

So true Gillianseed79. The only diffrence was GAF was alot smaller then.

 

[arab]

chad warden was right

 

[Ploid 3.0]

In regards to KZ2 specifically: think about the points the video brought up, it's a sequel to a game that had above average at best scores and looked to be more like the PS3's Ryse or something, a very pretty game that wasn't particularly great or memorable. Yet while it didn't revolutionize shooters it DID do well, and regardless something like your average shooter innately has sufficient gameplay meat on its bones.

I thought KZ2 was very unique. The dynamic game modes transitioning smoothly from vip/assassinate, through to death match, capture the flag, and so on made you stay alert and constantly doing stuff with no breaks. Then there was the classes with their interesting abilities and game styles. I liked KZ2 a ton. It didn't seem like it was chasing Halo or CoD. Maybe Team Fortress 2, and a bit of battlefield with no vehicles and aircraft?

Resistance 2, and apparently KZ3 tried to chase CoD and Halo though Why Insomniac, whyyyyy?

 

[Sub_Level]

PS3 had the best exclusives.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Man this thread takes me back. Anyone who says that GAF is all Sony fanboys weren't here during the PS3 launch. I'm not loyal to any company. My money goes to the company that offers me the best product. I loved the PS2, but god damn Sony fucked up with the PS3.

 

[Vyse24]

I remember there was another song that was a medley. All I really remember were parts in the tune of Waiting on the World to Change and Somebody Told Me. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, can you give a link of it?

 

[Tablo]

You're throwing a bunch of features at me as if this some how suggests that Microsoft's handling of the XBO is better than Sony's handling of the PS3. Gesture/motion/voice controls range from annoying to fun/useful, but they're hardly massive selling points, at least not as far as I can tell. I cannot see how you can argue that MS has a better digital distribution system than Sony in the present day, and I don't see how PS3 had a poor showing for digital distribution (besides the Sony account hack fiasco a few years ago). Cloud computing is a non-factor until it is proven useful/worthwhile, which I don't think has been done yet.

I'm still not sure how any of this relates to the argument at hand; we're saying that the PS3 launch was less fumbled than the XBO launch. Microsoft is launching the XBO in few countries, did massive amounts of flip-flopping in the months leading up to launch, is priced $100 more than the competition while maintaining clearly weaker hardware, and yet some how this is a better showing that PS3's launch? The PS3 wasn't designed perfectly, I'll concede that point, and it was certainly expensive, but at the end of the day you could spend $500 and get the cheapest Bluray player on the market (by far) that also happened to be the arguably most powerful console ever built (at the time) with full hardware-based backwards compatibility with the PS2.

Microsoft is botching the XBO launch more than the Sony botched the PS3 launch. It's practically a fact.

The usefulness of any feature is subjective to a point, and those are not mainly targeted at the majority of gaffers who love the straightforward controller/mouse kb and screen paradigm, I being one of those people. I do see value in Kinect worth the 100 dollar extra as its usefulness will only grow as software matures, and ensuring every xbone ships with one is very important. If you don't believe in voice/gestures for simple tasks and eventually more complex ones, then that 100$ is perceptually wasted in your eyes. In my opinion it comes down to that, it's not a hardcore dedicated gaming console, everyone knows that. It's something different, a compromise, but a good one in my opinion.

Back on topic, I maintain launching a year later with a massive pricepoint and hyperbolic/confused PR was bad for the PS3, worse than what's happened with the Xbone. Those aren't issues they addressed before the console's launch, on the blu ray feature I agree and it's why I bought a PS3 around that time considering it was the cheapest blu ray player, but that's still not a gigantic advantage given blu rays are more expensive, alot of people somehow can't see the huge difference in quality, and most people stream netflix, now anyways. Sony got their stuff together and made a comeback, but MS won't need that crazy of a comeback to fix their blunders so far, it's not comparable. for 500 the Xbone does alot of compelling things relative to what 600$+ PS3 did at the time. And remember they were selling the PS3 at a ridiculous loss, and the Xbone is making a profit straight out of the gate, while the PS4 is 60$~ in the red, right? Different strategies, the results will be telling, both are awesome platforms, let's see if MS stumbles as hard as some of you think in reality, I don't think they will.

 

[PAULINK]

This thread got Chad Warden yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NH1iIL4Q3o

I miss this guy so much.

 

[GillianSeed79]

PS3 had the best exclusives.

I cannot tell you enough how infuriating the early marketing for the PS3 was. It was all about it being a Blu-Ray movie player and how it's the cheapest Blu-Ray movie player. There were actual console wars bullshit between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray and I wanted to scream this has nothing to do with video games.

It was kind of why, as a 360 fan this gen, I was utterly, utterly, dumbstruck with Xbox One's TV TV TV TV TV TV reveal. Sony fumbled it with the PS3. I just didn't think anyone could fuck up a brand worse than them before the One reveal. And, well, yeah. I can't wait for my PS4 to arrive next week.

 

[Dremark]

I beg to differ, digital distribution and always online is the future and has a future unlike the CELL the ps3 touted, no one disputes the Xbone is weaker than the PS4. Kinect this go around is actually viable and ready for primetime, and yes voice and gesture control is also the future for UI navigation. They suck at PR and communication, that is true, but they reversed their unpopular decisions and are making amends, and yes all companies spread stupid FUD that obfuscates the facts for stupid reasons. Finally like any company Sony will take initiative and use Xbone's blunders to move forward their own cause, any company would do that.

I completely disagree that they have done worse than the PS3, that's preposterous.

Why would anyone tolerate always online requirements on a console? You claim it's "the future" but I see zero benefit to the customer.

Also what exactly was so bad about the PS3 other than the starting price?

 

[Returners]

Harrison, from the PS3's launch to Atari then to Xbox One's launch.

The guy can only take this much...

 

[greycolumbus]

 

[Takao]

wii360

 

[Dremark]

Clearly Blu Ray was a good move, but seriously built in wireless? Of course that'd be better to have built in, but remember the 360 also dropped a year earlier so whatever. It goes without saying every side has its advantages, but let's not pretend integrated wireless is a game changer...

And frankly having physical media just act as an alternative for downloading was smart since internet speeds still suck for alot of people, now I have to download a 40+ gb file to get the benefits of what they originally had (for digital) for any way you purchased a game... Don't see why they couldn't keep it either way, but let's chalk that up to not wanting to complicate things too much.

I'm used to using Steam all the time so I really appreciate the benefits of digital only, hopefully internet speeds can go up fast so we can get over these dumb arguments over always online and physical media, things that should be non issues.

The easy way for it to be a non-issue is for both to be offered. The way things are now where you can go digital or physical should be the best of both worlds for eveyone.

 

[Big Papa Husker]

I remember there was another song that was a medley. All I really remember were parts in the tune of Waiting on the World to Change and Somebody Told Me. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, can you give a link of it?

Here is their "Bad Game" song about Shadowrun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiN8juaTpsQ

Playstation Has No Fricken Games
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcIzoW8M1y8

I Hate This Wii
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6HEOpl01uM

Ring of Fire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMfU5WlmTrU

 

[daman824]

That is but one factor. You can't expect them to keep such a dominant leadership consistently each and every generation. Different market factors, releases, competitors and all the rest. The market leader has switched several times already over the decades and will continue to do so going forward. Nintendo, Sega, Sony etc. Thus far, the only one of them that hasn't been able to lead a generation is Microsoft.

Fact of the matter is, Sony spun it around with the PS3, are second this generation and will continue to sell fairly strong, and look to be entering the new generation with by far the biggest momentum.

All I see is a lot of spin. If we are discussing how a company is destroying their own brand (Playstation and Xbox) we should look at how they stacked up to their previous consoles performance in the market. not to the competitors. So the questions should be:

How did the ps3 sell compared to the ps2?
How much market share did they lose between those two generations?
and
How much did the xbox one sell compared to the 360?
How much market share did they lose between those two generations?

That sounds like a good way to see which console manufacturer did more damage to their brand.

 

[nib95]

The usefulness of any feature is subjective to a point, and those are not mainly targeted at the majority of gaffers who love the straightforward controller/mouse kb and screen paradigm, I being one of those people. I do see value in Kinect worth the 100 dollar extra as its usefulness will only grow as software matures, and ensuring every xbone ships with one is very important. If you don't believe in voice/gestures for simple tasks and eventually more complex ones, then that 100$ is perceptually wasted in your eyes. In my opinion it comes down to that, it's not a hardcore dedicated gaming console, everyone knows that. It's something different, a compromise, but a good one in my opinion.

Back on topic, I maintain launching a year later with a massive pricepoint and hyperbolic/confused PR was bad for the PS3, worse than what's happened with the Xbone. Those aren't issues they addressed before the console's launch, on the blu ray feature I agree and it's why I bought a PS3 around that time considering it was the cheapest blu ray player, but that's still not a gigantic advantage given blu rays are more expensive, alot of people somehow can't see the huge difference in quality, and most people stream netflix, now anyways. Sony got their stuff together and made a comeback, but MS won't need that crazy of a comeback to fix their blunders so far, it's not comparable. for 500 the Xbone does alot of compelling things relative to what 600$+ PS3 did at the time. And remember they were selling the PS3 at a ridiculous loss, and the Xbone is making a profit straight out of the gate, while the PS4 is 60$~ in the red, right? Different strategies, the results will be telling, both are awesome platforms, let's see if MS stumbles as hard as some of you think in reality, I don't think they will.

Microsoft can't even come back from some of their biggest issues with the Xbox One, not without fundamentally messing up their entire product ethos or losing a shit tonne of money.

Right now they have a considerably weaker system, that just also happens to be larger, more complex for developers and to manufacture and on top of that more expensive too. What can they do? Drop Kinect to bring down the price, lose more money and screw up their entire creative ethos, or drop the price anyway without dropping Kinect and lose more money. Add to that the console is simply too expensive to cater to the casual consumer market the way the Wii managed to.

What can they do about the performance disadvantage? Nothing. They are stuck with a lesser performing system for the entire generation, and no software tools or optimisations are going to bridge that gap. The PS4 will always be notably more powerful, and even has a higher top end ceiling. Add to that it is the cheaper and less complex console of the two to manufacture, so Sony will likely always have the price advantage as well as the performance advantage.

It's essentially a role reversal of last generation, only the PS3's hardware advantage over the 360 was able to be harnessed in first party games over time, and to a lesser extent bridge the gap in multiplatform titles between the two platforms. That will never happen this generation. The PS4 is cheaper, easier to develop for and much more powerful.

Microsoft has screwed this one up massively. That's why going in to the new generation the PS4 has considerably more momentum and considerably higher WW pre-order numbers.

 

[Tablo]

The easy way for it to be a non-issue is for both to be offered. The way things are now where you can go digital or physical should be the best of both worlds for eveyone.

Completely agree, and that's the best case, but I think they decided not to it to avoid consumer confusion, which isn't an issue for me or anyone on gaf, kinda got to wonder about their logic there. But then again when I see how alot of mainstream handles tech...

 

[Eusis]

I thought KZ2 was very unique. The dynamic game modes transitioning smoothly from vip/assassinate, through to death match, capture the flag, and so on made you stay alert and constantly doing stuff with no breaks. Then there was the classes with their interesting abilities and game styles. I liked KZ2 a ton. It didn't seem like it was chasing Halo or CoD. Maybe Team Fortress 2, and a bit of battlefield with no vehicles and aircraft?

Point on the dynamic game types, but that may not stick as much for SP (though that's highly praised too) and also for the video specifically keep in mind when it was made and when KZ2 came out: that's a 2007 video with Killzone 2 far off in the horizon. I'm not sure we knew about that stuff then, but even then it may've seemed more like a pie in the sky promise, and I doubt we were seeing much real gameplay that survived to the final game at that point.

Though, 2009? Huh, that really was the year the PS3 got in shape, wasn't it? Reasonable price point, new model, multiplatform games were evening out in parity, and I think most people loved Uncharted 2 and Demon's Souls or at least one of the two.

 

[msdstc]

This is amazing. Weird that in a few years the PS3 might actually end up being the best selling of the 3 consoles.

No way it passes the wii.

 

[Speedy Blue Dude]

Holy shit lol
Also MS has done nothing nearly as ridiculous as Sony in 06, so inb4xboneisdoomed.

Yeah, I'm going to agree with what you said. Sony fucked up the PS3 and didn't change anything at launch, everything was fucked for a while. If Microsoft released the Xbox One with the DRM and Always Online, then they fucked up as badly as Sony did with the PS3, and I would be the first to make a "Microsoft you fucked up your Xbox One" song. Gotta make that fast YouTube money.

As it stands, Microsoft hasn't fucked it that badly in terms of the actual launch. The Xbox One is going to sell out, and it is going to sell a ton, it probably won't outsell the PS4, but it's going to sell a shit ton anyways. The games are there, and they're good. The online is going to be great from the get-go (if it's basically current Xbox Live), and Microsoft isn't going to be selling the Xbox One at a loss like the PS3.

This is amazing. Weird that in a few years the PS3 might actually end up being the best selling of the 3 consoles.

Xbox 360 is still slightly ahead of the PS3. And no way the PS3 will take over the Wii. But what makes you think it'll overtake the Xbox 360? Curious.

 

[Elija2]

What's the story behind this picture (if there is a story)?

 

[nib95]

Xbox 360 is still slightly ahead of the PS3. And no way the PS3 will take over the Wii. But what makes you think it'll overtake the Xbox 360? Curious.

I believe the PS3 has already outsold the 360. By a couple of million now? It sells more world wide every year, and has been doing so for a while now.

 

[ascii42]

All I see is a lot of spin. If we are discussing how a company is destroying their own brand (Playstation and Xbox) we should look at how they stacked up to their previous consoles performance in the market. not to the competitors. So the questions should be:

How did the ps3 sell compared to the ps2?
How much market share did they lose between those two generations?
and
How much did the xbox one sell compared to the 360?
How much market share did they lose between those two generations?

That sounds like a good way to see which console manufacturer did more damage to their brand.

The WiiU struggling so far will distort market share comparisons, as the Wii has a 40% market share. As things stand now, PS2 -> PS3 is 155 million -> 80 million and 75% -> 30%.

Perhaps a market share comparison that just uses Sony and Microsoft's consoles would work better.

 

[Tablo]

Microsoft can't even come back from some of their biggest issues with the Xbox One, not without fundamentally messing up their entire product ethos or losing a shit tonne of money.

Right now they have a considerably weaker system, that just also happens to be larger, more complex for developers and to manufacture and on top of that more expensive too. What can they do? Drop Kinect to bring down the price, lose more money and screw up their entire creative ethos, or drop the price anyway without dropping Kinect and lose more money.

What can they do about the performance? Nothing. They are stuck with a lesser performing system for the entire generation, and no software tools or optimisations are going to bridge that gap. The PS4 will always be notably more powerful, and even has a higher top end ceiling. Add to that it is the cheaper and less complex console of the two to manufacture, so Sony will likely always have the price advantage as well as the performance advantage.

It's essentially a role reversal of last generation, only the PS3's hardware advantage over the 360 was able to be harnessed in first party games over time, and to a lesser extent bridge the gap in multiplatform titles between the two platforms. That will never happen this generation. The PS4 is cheaper, easier to develop for and much more powerful.

Microsoft has screwed this one up massively. That's why going in to the new generation the PS4 has considerably more momentum and considerably higher WW pre-order numbers.

That's all correct, but for a console at this point that power gap is not going to be the deciding factor among the mainstream. It's also not massively complicated to develop for, it is harder than PS4 for sure, but they dealth with it fine for 360, and dev tools will mature, I don't see it being a deal breaker that it doesn't pump out as impressive visuals as the PS4 will. It certainly sucks, but games will look good nonetheless.

I disagree with it being a role reversal on the basis of price and feature set, Kinect for one, quieter, smartglass, just a way better HTPC esque device that merits its pricetag if you know how to make use and want to make use of what its hardware and software offers. All of which is subverted if you only want it to play games or if you are antagonistic to its feature set.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Clearly Blu Ray was a good move, but seriously built in wireless? Of course that'd be better to have built in, but remember the 360 also dropped a year earlier so whatever. It goes without saying every side has its advantages, but let's not pretend integrated wireless is a game changer...

And frankly having physical media just act as an alternative for downloading was smart since internet speeds still suck for alot of people, now I have to download a 40+ gb file to get the benefits of what they originally had (for digital) for any way you purchased a game... Don't see why they couldn't keep it either way, but let's chalk that up to not wanting to complicate things too much.

I'm used to using Steam all the time so I really appreciate the benefits of digital only, hopefully internet speeds can go up fast so we can get over these dumb arguments over always online and physical media, things that should be non issues.

See. I never understood this from DRM sympathizers. I get that it doesn't really "affect you" but it screws over a vast majority of the entire world. Hell, even I have good connection speeds, but the forceful push to digital pissed me off. You seem to construct your argument as "it wasn't a big deal to me, therefore it wasn't too big of a blunder" but that's not how it works. The majority of people decide whether something is a PR debacle or not, not just individuals. This is why everyone is reacting to your comments like you're crazy. It may not matter to you, but the fact is, it pissed off way more people than anything Sony did in 2006. So much so that it forced a change prior to the product was even released. As I said before, kudos to MS for being so quick on their feet, but to ignore the shitstorm earlier this year because it wasn't too much of a deal to you is silly.

 

[luokyl]

This is amazing. Weird that in a few years the PS3 might actually end up being the best selling of the 3 consoles.

Didn't PS3 just cross over 80 million a few weeks ago? It's gotta have a long ass tail if it wants 20 million + more.

 

[Speedy Blue Dude]

I believe the PS3 has already outsold the 360. By a couple of million now? It sells more world wide every year, and has been doing so for a while now.

Didn't Sony just announce 80 millions units... 4 days ago?

Microsoft announced that last month. I think. So Microsoft is still a little more ahead overall. Not sure if Microsoft can keep that going though, since TitanFall is their last "big" draw for the 360, and people who are buying a new system for that would probably just get the Xbox One. And Gran Turismo is out soon, so PS3's going to have a lot of sales going for it. Probably just going to be determined by who drops the price to $200 faster.

 

[nib95]

All I see is a lot of spin. If we are discussing how a company is destroying their own brand (Playstation and Xbox) we should look at how they stacked up to their previous consoles performance in the market. not to the competitors.

If we're talking just brand, I agree. But the PS4 and later cycle PS3 is proof that Sony has spun brand image around. Speaking in overall sales terms though, ironically your post is somewhat reminiscent of what you have accused me of with it. Companies don't necessarily compete with themselves, they compete with competitors. That's why they call it competitor. The Games industry is far too variable, dynamic and layered to expect one platform to have a stranglehold lead on the market each and every generation. That's why that lead has changed hands so many times already.

As I said, maintaining market share is important, no doubt. But you have to look at all sides of the picture. Sony crawled out of a massive hole, and in the end came out fighting. I suspect two major side goals with the PS3 that Sony also considered highly important were to win the Blu-ray format war (which they did), and also to push Cell (which never really transpired). Similarly Microsoft has sacrificed much to try and push Kinect, the OS features (snap, TV etc), and we'll know later in the generation if they have been successful or not.

Didn't PS3 just cross over 80 million a few weeks ago? It's gotta have a long ass tail if it wants 20 million + more.

My bad, I thought they were on 85m for some reason, leaving 15m to catch up on over the next however many years (which most likely wouldn't ever happen anyway).

 

[Dremark]

All I see is a lot of spin. If we are discussing how a company is destroying their own brand (Playstation and Xbox) we should look at how they stacked up to their previous consoles performance in the market. not to the competitors. So the questions should be:

How did the ps3 sell compared to the ps2?
How much market share did they lose between those two generations?
and
How much did the xbox one sell compared to the 360?
How much market share did they lose between those two generations?

That sounds like a good way to see which console manufacturer did more damage to their brand.

Even that isn't really a fair way to stack up. The market the PS2/Xbox launched into is far different than the one the PS3/360 did and the PS4/Xbone did.

The PS2 dominated despite having some of the same drawbacks as the PS3 because Sony paid out for high profile exclusives and Nintendo and MS didn't have thier act together.

A large part of the reason the PS3 didn't take the market the same way the PS2 did was that Nintendo and MS had directions that worked. Granted the PS3's price point limited early narket penetration, but part of that was that Nintendo had a console which people thought was the next big thing and MS had one which in a lot of ways was comparable and had it's own set of benefits.

A lot of people seem to think the PS4's launch resembles the PS2's with Sony running on all cylinders right now and it's competitiors floundering. Only time will tell if this is right (I think it's an exaggeration personally) but overall it's a matter of competition and market positioning rather than just the market leader shooting itself in the foot.

 

[ginger ninja]

Ha, I remember that song.

Remember this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH2w2l1JTs4

dem memories..remember when my brother sent me his PS3 and the two PS3 games he had were gengi and Sonic..PS3 launch line up was horrible save for resistance which was AMAZING

 

[ascii42]

Didn't PS3 just cross over 80 million a few weeks ago? It's gotta have a long ass tail if it wants 20 million + more.

Different situations, but the PS1 did over 30million after the PS2 came out, and the PS2 did over 50 million after the PS3 came out. It's been a longer generation, but the PS3 is more expensive now than the others were when their successors came out. It'll be interesting to see.

Didn't Sony just announce 80 millions units... 4 days ago?

Microsoft announced that last month. I think. So Microsoft is still a little more ahead overall. Not sure if Microsoft can keep that going though, since TitanFall is their last "big" draw for the 360, and people who are buying a new system for that would probably just get the Xbox One. And Gran Turismo is out soon, so PS3's going to have a lot of sales going for it. Probably just going to be determined by who drops the price to $200 faster.

Both are shipped numbers, so we really don't know which one has do,d more to customers. Very close, either way.

 

[Toski]

That's all correct, but for a console at this point that power gap is not going to be the deciding factor among the mainstream. It's also not massively complicated to develop for, it is harder than PS4 for sure, but they dealth with it fine for 360, and dev tools will mature, I don't see it being a deal breaker that it doesn't pump out as impressive visuals as the PS4 will. It certainly sucks, but games will look good nonetheless.

I disagree with it being a role reversal on the basis of price and feature set, Kinect for one, quieter, smartglass, just a way better HTPC esque device that merits its pricetag if you know how to make use and want to make use of what its hardware and software offers. All of which is subverted if you only want it to play games or if you are antagonistic to its feature set.

Sony made a MASSIVE investment to turn the PS3 around, an investment I don't think Microsoft is willing to make. The X1 was meant to get as much money out of as small a userbase as possible, and MS is going to pay for their lack of foresight and tact.

 

[Tablo]

See. I never understood this from DRM sympathizers. I get that it doesn't really "affect you" but it screws over a vast majority of the entire world. Hell, even I have good connection speeds, but the forceful push to digital pissed me off. You seem to construct your argument as "it wasn't a big deal to me, therefore it wasn't too big of a blunder" but that's not how it works. The majority of people decide whether something is a PR debacle or not, not just individuals. This is why everyone is reacting to your comments like you're crazy. It may not matter to you, but the fact is, it pissed off way more people than anything Sony did in 2006. So much so that it forced a change prior to the product was even released. As I said before, kudos to MS for being so quick on their feet, but to ignore the shitstorm earlier this year because it wasn't too much of a deal to you is silly.

Way to totally not understand what I've been saying, I know why people don't like DRM, I know why people like trading physical disks with friends. It's not like I'm saying what works and doesn't based on me, don't try to obfuscate my comments and portray me as such. There's a future of digital coming, this is a transitional phase, and no one company can satisfy everyone. Offline or online Xbone is functional now, that's a good thing and that's what the default should have been. I was here the whole time through the shitstorm and I'm fully aware of it, but I'm not one to hand it to majority frenzy automatically, there's room for nuance.

 

[Biker19]

Back on topic, I maintain launching a year later with a massive pricepoint and hyperbolic/confused PR was bad for the PS3, worse than what's happened with the Xbone. Those aren't issues they addressed before the console's launch, on the blu ray feature I agree and it's why I bought a PS3 around that time considering it was the cheapest blu ray player, but that's still not a gigantic advantage given blu rays are more expensive, alot of people somehow can't see the huge difference in quality, and most people stream netflix, now anyways. Sony got their stuff together and made a comeback, but MS won't need that crazy of a comeback to fix their blunders so far, it's not comparable.

LOL, Microsoft hasn't even won one generation like Nintendo had with NES/Famicon, SNES/Super Famicon, & Wii, or like Sony had with PS1, & PS2. Heck, they weren't even the market leaders last gen; even Sega were market leaders for quite a while with the Genesis/MegaDrive. At least Nintendo & Sony had a reason to be arrogant, after coming off of winning two console generations, Microsoft just went arrogant for no reason.

While Microsoft did make a huge jump in numbers going from the original Xbox (24 million) to Xbox 360 (80 million), it wasn't exactly PS2 level of sales, let alone PS1 or Wii. Sony managed to catch up to Xbox 360 in sales with the PS3, despite having many advantages over PS3, such as the year to a year & a half head start, & the $200 price advantage.

 

[ConteZero76]

I beg to differ, digital distribution and always online is the future and has a future unlike the CELL the ps3 touted, no one disputes the Xbone is weaker than the PS4. Kinect this go around is actually viable and ready for primetime, and yes voice and gesture control is also the future for UI navigation. They suck at PR and communication, that is true, but they reversed their unpopular decisions and are making amends, and yes all companies spread stupid FUD that obfuscates the facts for stupid reasons. Finally like any company Sony will take initiative and use Xbone's blunders to move forward their own cause, any company would do that.

I completely disagree that they have done worse than the PS3, that's preposterous.

Voice control is a PS4 thing too... and you don't need a camera to use it.

 

[Tablo]

Voice control is a PS4 thing too... and you don't need a camera to use it.

Yeah but it's sure as hell not as advanced as Kinect voice stuff, and doesn't have alot of headroom for future software that can take advantage of the better audio processing.

 

[Anticitizen One]

yea I don't remember all that but I do remember THIS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NH1iIL4Q3o

BALLIN'

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Way to totally not understand what I've been saying, I know why people don't like DRM, I know why people like trading physical disks with friends. It's not like I'm saying what works and doesn't based on me, don't try to obfuscate my comments and portray me as such. There's a future of digital coming, this is a transitional phase, and no one company can satisfy everyone. Offline or online Xbone is functional now, that's a good thing and that's what the default should have been. I was here the whole time through the shitstorm and I'm fully aware of it, but I'm not one to hand it to majority frenzy automatically, there's room for nuance.

Perhaps I should have been more thorough with my comment. I did not mean to directly call you a "DRM sympathizer" however, I was claiming your rationale on this issue is similar. You took the entire crux of my argument from 2 comments ago (restriction of physical media) and responded with:

...Don't see why they couldn't keep it either way, but let's chalk that up to not wanting to complicate things too much.

Your response resonated with the casual nature of which the Xbox team approached this massive issue (again I'm not directly saying you think DRM is cool, just using your personal position in this). This issue alone makes the Xbox One reveal significantly worse than the PS3 reveal. Both consoles pushed some form of innovation, but nothing PS3 pushed for had such a direct and negative effect on the consumers as physical restriction did.

 

[Wolf Akela]

Angry Sony fan calls Gamespot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDk-4cc_WkU

 

[UnluckyKate]

and people says GAF is Pro Sony and Anti MS... No we just bash whoever do stupid things. Sony went batshit insane in 06. They are coming down the road from reallyyyy far.

So good to see the company getting hold of its internation communication and good things most of the stuff is handled by SCEA now

 

[Tablo]

Perhaps I should have been more thorough with my comment. I did not mean to directly call you a "DRM sympathizer" however, I was claiming your rationale on this issue is similar. You took the entire crux of my argument from 2 comments ago (restriction of physical media) and responded with:

Your response resonated with the casual nature of which the Xbox team approached this massive issue (again I'm not directly saying you think DRM is cool, just using your personal position in this). This issue alone makes the Xbox One reveal significantly worse than the PS3 reveal. Both consoles pushed some form of innovation, but nothing PS3 pushed for had such a direct and negative effect on the consumers as physical restriction did.

I said that literally trying to understand why the Xbox team didn't let us have it both ways lol As in I am confused, but I am trying to find their rationale, which would be streamlining consumer choice. Which doesn't help me or you out sadly :/

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

I said that literally trying to understand why the Xbox team didn't let us have it both ways lol As in I am confused, but I am trying to find their rationale, which would be streamlining consumer choice. Which doesn't help me or you out sadly :/

Oh, woops. Well sorry for not getting what you were saying.

 

[MWS Natural]

What's the story behind this picture (if there is a story)?

Retailers couldn't sell their PS3 stock a few weeks after launch.

 

[Tablo]

Oh, woops. Well sorry for not getting what you were saying.

Na it's cool, I could have been less confusing, falling asleep here lol, those videos in the OP were amazing though, off to bed for me.

 

[simplythebest]

Technically the X1 is getting it's shit together even faster, since the console isn't even out yet, and it's had a complete image overhaul. To that, I give lots of credit. If they will continue to show that flexibility, now that is the question.

The negative PR just keeps snowballing and snowballing.

Microsoft must be in there conference room racking there brains about to avoid and downplay these PR mishaps. It's literally gonna cost them millions.

Don't believe me?? Just look at the PS3 pre and post launch. They could have easily sold 100 million systems already if they just did the right things.

 

[Sub_Level]

Imagine if for PS5 we link back to this thread and talk about how right or wrong we were about anticipating the PS4 and how things changed in ~5 years.