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What's the best non-Genesis Sonic game?
- Thread starter Phediuk
- Start date
Vigilant Gambit
Member
I think it should. Christian Whitehead reversed-engineered the Sonic engine from that era for the ports. There's no reason not to believe he isn't leveraging it for Mania just to be extra-legit.
GlassBurrito
Member
SegaSonic the Hedgehog
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SonicMegaDrive
Member
Since I don't count Sonic CD, it's either the Master System Sonic 1 or Sonic Advance for the GBA. Though neither are all that remarkable.
baudelinog
Member
Sonic 1 for the Master System. Basic fun.
And it has the best controls ever. Even with the awful Master System default control pad it always was (is) a pleasure to just control that hedgehog.
And it has the best controls ever. Even with the awful Master System default control pad it always was (is) a pleasure to just control that hedgehog.
Unleashed 360/PS3
It was an immediate and significant upturn from Sonic 06: Introduced the boost style to consoles, made some really great aesthetic and lighting choices that were reminiscent of Pixar, and took on a sincere and spirited tone that simultaneously wasn't as self-deprecating and eye-rolling as later games.
It's the last major Sonic game to have a narrative and thematic considerations that were actually sensibly tied into the gameplay, including the Werehog and hub world exploration. It's a quirky buddy road trip and subsequent treatise on friendship, culture, and how food relates to both, an exploration on the relationship between light and dark, and to some degree a revenge story (it makes the most sense for the Werehog to tear the Egg Dragoon apart than what has happened in its later appearances).
It's also the last major Sonic game to have a difficulty curve that trends close to punishingly difficult. The moment you beat it, every game after will be a cakewalk to the point that it's slightly insulting.
Finally, it's also the only Sonic game to get stand-alone animated shorts as unlockables, and the Night of the Werehog short as actual marketing.
Later games are more consistent in design and pacing, but they're much more superficial and lack a sense of identity that can stand confidently on their own, which makes their mechanical shallowness compared to other platforming competitors- including the likes of Mania- that much more obvious. I don't get any sense of satisfaction that I've beaten a full-fledged adventure from Sonic anymore, nor any feeling that Sonic Team is particularly enamored with the franchise like they were when marketing Unleashed, even if we're getting more technically solid games.
It was an immediate and significant upturn from Sonic 06: Introduced the boost style to consoles, made some really great aesthetic and lighting choices that were reminiscent of Pixar, and took on a sincere and spirited tone that simultaneously wasn't as self-deprecating and eye-rolling as later games.
It's the last major Sonic game to have a narrative and thematic considerations that were actually sensibly tied into the gameplay, including the Werehog and hub world exploration. It's a quirky buddy road trip and subsequent treatise on friendship, culture, and how food relates to both, an exploration on the relationship between light and dark, and to some degree a revenge story (it makes the most sense for the Werehog to tear the Egg Dragoon apart than what has happened in its later appearances).
It's also the last major Sonic game to have a difficulty curve that trends close to punishingly difficult. The moment you beat it, every game after will be a cakewalk to the point that it's slightly insulting.
Finally, it's also the only Sonic game to get stand-alone animated shorts as unlockables, and the Night of the Werehog short as actual marketing.
Later games are more consistent in design and pacing, but they're much more superficial and lack a sense of identity that can stand confidently on their own, which makes their mechanical shallowness compared to other platforming competitors- including the likes of Mania- that much more obvious. I don't get any sense of satisfaction that I've beaten a full-fledged adventure from Sonic anymore, nor any feeling that Sonic Team is particularly enamored with the franchise like they were when marketing Unleashed, even if we're getting more technically solid games.
Professor Beef
Banned
feature-rich, mechanically bankrupt
Lynd7
Member
I really like Adventure 2 as well, but I can definitely see how it's rough in places. Definite jank, you just get used to it.
I don't deny that it's an incredibly jank game, but it's like.....good jank to me. None of it really bothers me, at least until towards the end of the game when it's actually kinda challenging.
I miss that kind of jank-but-still-really-fun attribute that a lot of early 3D games had, even though whether or not it was something you can get used to varies from game to game. I feel like a lot of modern 3D platformers are either great, but hyperpolished to the point wherein they lack some of the personality, or they're just straight-up not very good games.
Weltall Zero
Member
It's quite emphatically not the same, on account of the latter being a false statement. NSMBWU being better than Mario World I may accept, the DS original being better than SMB3 or World? No glasses needed to see that's ridiculous.
Can't say, haven't played 4.
Now you're just trolling.
And now you're completely off the rails. I can understand why you would think people are gaslighting you if you typically expose them to reactions of this kind.
Please take a chill pill and assume every opinion in this forum is prefaced with "in my humble opinion" if it makes you feel better.
Airola
Member
Wow, I came to here with the intent to half-troll with Master System Sonic 1, but it was already the OPs choice :O
It would've been a half-troll because the answer sounds like a sarcastic joke but it's the truth.
Vital Tundra
Member
Not adventure 1/2.
If you'd just take off your nostalgia goggles, you'd see how your perception of their gameplay is just idealized childhood. New Super Mario Bros. is just flat out better.
I mean, you can see the problem here. Your argument is as arbitrary as me saying you're unable to be objective. Or even less so, since the nostalgia argument concerns comparative age. Based on your text, the only reason it's "emphatically not the same," false," and "ridiculous" is because you disagree.
How is it completely off the rails? You're basically telling people that their perception of reality is warped. Outside of severity, it's mechanically similar.
I know it's your opinion. In my opinion, the way you stated your opinion is a problem, and it's indicative of an ongoing problem in video game discussion.
Opinions can be laced with fallacy and/or problematic meme rhetoric. Opinions can be obtusely stated, non-constructive, and even offensive (not that yours was -- I wouldn't go that far). It doesn't make them less of a problem or immune to being pointed out. Surely, you could agree with that.
Weltall Zero
Member
I am positively dazzled at this elegant, sharp-witted turning of my own argument against me.
Which is exactly, every bit as arbitrary as saying one game is better than another. Your point?
Also, I'm not saying anyone is unable to be objective. I did instruct them to take of the nostalgia goggles, after all.
Exactly correct. What exactly seems confusing to you?
Throwing a fit and accusing someone of shitposting and gaslighting because you happen to disagree with their opinions on nostalgia does not seem like stable behavior.
But of course: everyone's perception of reality is warped. Doubting that simply means one's perception is slightly more warped.
By which you mean, the severe overreacting in your post that wasn't present in mine? My comment wasn't even addressed to anyone in particular.
Feel free to create a thread about it, if you care so much. You have otherwise utterly failed to present a convincing case, and this thread is about Sonic games, not "things dlauv finds 'problematic' in videogame forum discussion".
Of course I agree; your post was a textbook example after all. I mean, you accused me of discrediting others' opinions while calling mine shitposting and gaslighting, it doesn't get much more hypocritical than that.
To cut this parade of embarrassment short:
1) Your point that calling others' opinions' "affected by nostalgia" should not be grounds for automatic disqualification of those opinions: Agreed.
2) Your point that "[I think that] your opinion is colored by nostalgia" is an invalid or even reproachable assessment in any discussion: Fuck that.
NESpowerhouse
Perhaps he's wondering why someone would shoot a man before throwing him out of a plane.
I don't know, I still get a lot of enjoyment over the supposed weaker parts of the game such as the treasure-hunting and mech-shooting levels. It also has extremely tight controls to back this all up.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I really like Unleashed too, I just wish the Werehog wasn't such a stupid concept. It was executed okay though, I just still think Knuckles or hell even Ristar would have worked much better as an alternative character. It probably would have been better received with that adjustment too because it'd be less easily mocked.
When people say the Adventure formula should never be touched again, Unleashed for me contradicts a lot of that.
Generations has lower highs but is more consistent so I give it the edge overall.
Dazzling sarcasm aside, the fact that it was so low-effort to do should be instructive. If you have a problem with being turned over so easily, then why bother saying something completely bereft of substantial thought?
The pretense being others' opinions aren't as valid due to some warped perception of reality.
What was the point of engaging if you're going to say nothing of substance? Were you attempting to be exemplary or didactic?
Well it is shitposting, isn't it? You're basically giving a drive-by to everyone who disagrees with some condescending remark about their warped reality?
While I agree with the metaphysics of this, you're admitting that someone "taking off" their goggles would still be individually warped. This wouldn't necessarily lead to the conclusion you gave. You're deconstructing your original post to the point of meaninglessness, and to where it exists solely to be condescending and contentious, aka a shitpost.
Also, I'm not saying anyone is unable to be objective. I did instruct them to take of the nostalgia goggles, after all.
See above why this doesn't work.
By severity, I mean the severity of actual gaslighting. Also nuance in intent.
I think it's relevant, so I'll keep going as long as I see fit. If you're not convinced, then hopefully someone else will be. And hopefully you'll be called out for your posts in the future.
I'm not sure how these are the same. You'll have to lay it out for me. Sounds like you're really just reaching to turn the tables.
2 would be valid if you had any evidence whatsoever. Otherwise, all you're doing is being contentious by throwing a blanket of condescension and accusation and dismissal (disqualification or asterisk) over the discussion. How is that constructive? How is that a positive avenue of discussion? The preemptive nostalgia argument only serves to bully people and dismiss dissenting opinion as less objective/reasonable.
If you have reason to believe someone, individually, is speaking through rose-tinted glasses and a fondness for the past, then confront them on it. That's fine. Cool. But otherwise where does the foundation and substance come from to form the argument of "everyone who thinks Sonic 2 is better than Generations is wearing nostalgia goggles"? It's asinine and the general rhetoric is unfortunately common.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
GBA Sonic games might be the best collection of Sonic games even over the Genesis.
Weltall Zero
Member
If this conversation ever had an ounce of usefulness, it has clearly outlived it by now. I won't be wasting any more time or forum space in this.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
!!!
It should yes.
I'm changing my vote to this.
And unlike Generations, I don't have to conditionally recommend it either as this is an actual good game this time.
Def.
But if we are gonna be honest here.
Its Sonic Generations with the Unleashed Project applied
Easily my favorite Sonic game + mod.
I expected this. Regardless, have a good one.
I dunno, what if it's not very good?
chronic_archaic
Member
Personal bias towards Sonic Adventure 2 - it's a product of it's time but it came out right before the sixth gen got it's first truly next gen games and by extension it doesn't hold up that great now however I do think it is still an enjoyable game despite it's flaws.
For reference I think Adventure, Adventure 2, Heroes, the Advance games, Rush games, Colors, Sonic R, Riders and Generations are all fine. And fuck, a lot of the Game Gear ones are pretty good. Plus Pocket Adventure... there's quite a few. Even the shittier games have their moments - though I've tried playing Shadow The Hedgehog and Secret Rings last year and just couldn't believe how much I liked them as a kid. Still can find some enjoyment... though, you can do much better so don't bother if you're not really a big fan.
For reference I think Adventure, Adventure 2, Heroes, the Advance games, Rush games, Colors, Sonic R, Riders and Generations are all fine. And fuck, a lot of the Game Gear ones are pretty good. Plus Pocket Adventure... there's quite a few. Even the shittier games have their moments - though I've tried playing Shadow The Hedgehog and Secret Rings last year and just couldn't believe how much I liked them as a kid. Still can find some enjoyment... though, you can do much better so don't bother if you're not really a big fan.
100% agree with you, Adventure 1 is the runner up.
100% don't agree with you, cause opinions.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
I personally really like Sonic Generations, Sonic Advance 1-3, Sonic Rush Adventure, some of the GameGear Sonic games like Triple Trouble, Sonic Colors, and while arguments could be made on both sides for a while I personally quite liked the first Sonic Adventure game.
To lesser extents, I also enjoyed Sonic Rush (the original, great OST but I much preferred Rush Adventure), Heroes, Adventure 2, and Lost World (Lost World has some serious highs though).
To lesser extents, I also enjoyed Sonic Rush (the original, great OST but I much preferred Rush Adventure), Heroes, Adventure 2, and Lost World (Lost World has some serious highs though).
PyroPaperPlanes
Member
Sonic Rush, Sonic Unleashed (Daytime Stages), Sonic Colours and Sonic Generations are all very enjoyable for their own reasons. The Adventure series has its moments too, although it's hilarious to see some of their shortcomings (and sloginess).
Can't think of much else though.
Edit: To note, I never played the Advance series.
Can't think of much else though.
Edit: To note, I never played the Advance series.
ProgenitorCastle
Banned
In my opinion,as of this time, I choose Sonic Adventure: DX (Gamecube ver. I guess).
If one or some of y'all would like to see my reasoning/reasonings for why I think so as of this time, lemme know in any way possible!
If one or some of y'all would like to see my reasoning/reasonings for why I think so as of this time, lemme know in any way possible!
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Sonic Adventure followed by Sonic Unleashed. Colors is a close third.
I admire ambition.
I admire ambition.
It's not just the best non-Genesis Sonic. Mania is the best Sonic period.
Agreed. Also is it just me or does it by far have the best graphics as well
If we take Sonic Mania out of the equation along with the classics and Sonic CD.
Sonic Pocket Adventure is a great game, shame that it uses the same level themes from Sonic 2 but is otherwise completely different levels. I'm not sure where Dimps went wrong in the following years (Perhaps staff changed? I'm not well versed on Dimps' history) but the quality of their levels designs declined with each successive title they developed for Sega which was such a shame.
Sonic Pocket Adventure is a great game, shame that it uses the same level themes from Sonic 2 but is otherwise completely different levels. I'm not sure where Dimps went wrong in the following years (Perhaps staff changed? I'm not well versed on Dimps' history) but the quality of their levels designs declined with each successive title they developed for Sega which was such a shame.
theaffection
Member
Love Sonic Heroes
Either that or Sonic R
HM: Sonic Rush
Either that or Sonic R
HM: Sonic Rush
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