-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Which death impacted the music world more.. Kurt Cobain or Tupac Shakur?
- Thread starter Captain Zyrain
- Start date
Randolph Freelander
Member
On the other hand, I bet they're not playing California Love in Seattle, though.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
It's an alternative fact.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
rock as a popular music genre is essentially dead while rap flourishes
pac won
pac won
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Forget about the music world, how about the world in general? Tupac was the hero we needed, but not the one we deserved.
The video of Tupac discussing wealth inequality in America is worth watching if you haven't seen it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL-ZoNhUFmc
The video of Tupac discussing wealth inequality in America is worth watching if you haven't seen it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL-ZoNhUFmc
You don't hear Nirvana as much as you think you would up here.
Maximus.
Member
Tupac was a loss of a generational talent and also the eventual loss of Biggie. Tupac I believe had a bright future, had he not got so caught up in the gangster image and bullshit. He was developing into a great actor, created so much passionate music in such a short time. I do wonder what the hip hop/rap genre would look like today, had these two been alive to this day.
Despite the image Tupac sold, he grew up with a past in fine arts, was very articulate and spoke a lot of truths. He brought a lot of attention to his people and to the atrocities and neglect in America. He could've been a much more positive influence and force had he had time to grow and mature more. Regardless, for someone his age, he had a strong view on a lot of issues.
Despite the image Tupac sold, he grew up with a past in fine arts, was very articulate and spoke a lot of truths. He brought a lot of attention to his people and to the atrocities and neglect in America. He could've been a much more positive influence and force had he had time to grow and mature more. Regardless, for someone his age, he had a strong view on a lot of issues.
Purely Subjective oppinion but i would choose Kurt over Pac and Biggie.
The deaths of Pac and Biggie while tragic were ultimately pushed past by a young form of expression coming into its own. When they fell others took their place and moved Rap/HipHop forward.
Kurt Cobain was the biggest star in rock fighting a loosing battle for the right to be oppinionated in a mature medium in decline. His death left a talent vacuum that was never really filled. A few rock artists have tried but no one has really come close to Cobain as a combination of talented and oppinionated.
The deaths of Pac and Biggie while tragic were ultimately pushed past by a young form of expression coming into its own. When they fell others took their place and moved Rap/HipHop forward.
Kurt Cobain was the biggest star in rock fighting a loosing battle for the right to be oppinionated in a mature medium in decline. His death left a talent vacuum that was never really filled. A few rock artists have tried but no one has really come close to Cobain as a combination of talented and oppinionated.
Cobain was the death blow to grunge, it limped on for a bit but his death killed an entire genre. So there was definitely a huge impact there.
2pac was a better artist whose passing left a deeper hole in music, and his death also had long lasting repercussions on hip hop culture and how it treated violence. But he didn't kill an entire genre with his death so my vote goes for Cobain.
2pac was a better artist whose passing left a deeper hole in music, and his death also had long lasting repercussions on hip hop culture and how it treated violence. But he didn't kill an entire genre with his death so my vote goes for Cobain.
???
He's right. At the very least in places like the UK Tupac's death was only really a notable thing in a niche crowd. Everyone knows about Kurt Cobain though.
Rap isn't as big outside the US.
TheSkullPrince
Member
They're my two all-time favorite artists ever, but if I had to say whose death impacted music more......nope can't do it.
Patrick S.
Banned
Easily Tupac.
Killer Queen
Banned
Definitely Kurt Cobain
Cant go fuckin anywhere (aside from maybe North Korea and third world countries) without seeing or hearing something Nirvana related.
Cant go fuckin anywhere (aside from maybe North Korea and third world countries) without seeing or hearing something Nirvana related.
This. You hear and see Nirvana fucking everywhere. That t-shirt must be the most selled band/artist shirt in the world. Tupac is known by name, but loads of people outside the US have never listened to his music or know the circumstances of his death. Compare that to Kurt's suicide and SLTS.
KonradLaw
Member
Tupac was a lot bigger in USA then in the rest of the world. The entire Europe was in mourning when Cobain died. No music celebrity death since Lennon had such effect, at least in Europe and the only non-music one comparable was Diana. Tupac's passing was barely noticed.
It's not surprising, because even now american rap's popularity lags outside USA compared to it's native market, but in early 90s the gap was a lot bigger.
Bounceounce
Member
I can't answer this question because I know nothing about Nirvana, but people in this thread are vastly underestimating Tupac.
Like, I dislike Pac's music and am not a fan of his persona and don't buy into his mythologization, but he's without a doubt a global figure unlike what one poster said and his death has been fetishized to an unreal level.
His fans are quite literally (and I mean this) cultists to an obscene level and his name has as much weight as anyone.
Go look at people talking about Tupac or search anything about him, see the insanity, it can't be minute sized compared to Kobains even if his is larger.
Like, I dislike Pac's music and am not a fan of his persona and don't buy into his mythologization, but he's without a doubt a global figure unlike what one poster said and his death has been fetishized to an unreal level.
His fans are quite literally (and I mean this) cultists to an obscene level and his name has as much weight as anyone.
Go look at people talking about Tupac or search anything about him, see the insanity, it can't be minute sized compared to Kobains even if his is larger.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Huh? It's big enough to have significant artists from West Europe to East Asia.
KonradLaw
Member
I think he meant american rap. Rap as a genre is extremely popular, but local rappers have much easier time competing on their home markets with american ones than in pop or rock.
Yes, but it isn't as big as in America. Which is reflected for instance in the interest for Straight Outta Compton. Big American rappers also only tend to make the charts in a 'Featuring' song and local stations tend to group R&B and Rap into an 'Urban' hour once a week. Well, outside of Eminem and local stuff. So we remember Nirvana better.
I dont think I've met many who liked Tupac, i dont think i have heard one of his original songs (only the cover)
I still see young rock fans today wearing Nirvana shirts who are just discovering them themselves or through the foo fighters
I hear Smells like teen Spirit, or Songs off the Unplugged CD still on the Radio today, still you have bands coming out post Kurts Death that was influenced by them (Creed/Alterbridge, Nickleback, Paramore, MCR etc all big sellers who have all said in interviews that Kurt was a influence )
Niravana crossed genres, I know rap fans who have heard of or like Nirvana, hell even some rock & metal fans who hated grunge, actually liked the unplugged album, pop fans and i even know some classical music fans who liked the unplugged album. I'm sure it may be the same the other way but i havent met them is it because Tupac was bigger in the US than the rest of teh world whereas Nirvana were big in USA and the Restbof the World? Probably
I still see young rock fans today wearing Nirvana shirts who are just discovering them themselves or through the foo fighters
I hear Smells like teen Spirit, or Songs off the Unplugged CD still on the Radio today, still you have bands coming out post Kurts Death that was influenced by them (Creed/Alterbridge, Nickleback, Paramore, MCR etc all big sellers who have all said in interviews that Kurt was a influence )
Niravana crossed genres, I know rap fans who have heard of or like Nirvana, hell even some rock & metal fans who hated grunge, actually liked the unplugged album, pop fans and i even know some classical music fans who liked the unplugged album. I'm sure it may be the same the other way but i havent met them is it because Tupac was bigger in the US than the rest of teh world whereas Nirvana were big in USA and the Restbof the World? Probably
Always-honest
Banned
Depends where you live. Where i lived i was surprised to see a lot of kids "depressed" and actually crying because Kurt Cobain was dead. It was scary and laughable to witness, to be honest. Kids......
mavericktopgun
Member
Kurt
polyh3dron
Banned
Nirvana was most likely on the verge of flaming out and breaking up soon anyways, and we need to reiterate that Kurt took his own life here, which meant that he felt like he was done here, whereas Tupac and Biggie both had long careers ahead of them, and the trajectory of rap music was altered significantly by their deaths.
So yeah, I'll say Pac.
So yeah, I'll say Pac.
D
Deleted member 284
Unconfirmed Member
Trust me when I say that Pac's death was very hard on people too. I think you are letting your experience cloud your thoughts on the matter.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Well that's that.
A lot of adults still do that. In either Sonic Highways or Sound City (Can't recall which, but I feel like it's Sonic Highways) Dave Grohl interviews a singer for a pretty well known band and the guy starts crying when they talk about Kurt dying.
He was a huge influence for a lot of rock artists today, not to mention Grunge dictated the direction Rock was going to take all the way until now.
I think hands down Kurt had more of an impact, and I'm not even a huge Nirvana fan.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Eh I wouldn't even say that's true. A surprising large number of people know the words to many raps songs of the era and know off tupac in the uk. Generationally I wouldn't be surprised if Tupac was bigger. Keep in minds it's the 90's/early 2000's an rap music was massive over here far bigger than rock.
NPR: Tupac Encouraged the Arab Spring
http://www.npr.org/2013/03/20/174839318/tupac-encouraged-the-arab-spring
DeaconKnowledge
Member
This is probably the answer I most agree with, though Grunge was on its way out regardless. Cobain's death put a permanent stamp on it.
I don't get all these people saying that Pac was unknown outside the US. Seriously?!
Laieon
Member
I'm not a huge rap fan, did Tupac's death directly lead to the rise of any other musicians? Cobain's obviously signaled the end of Nirvana, which led to Dave Grohl forming the Foo Fighters. They're not exactly small. I'm seeing them here in August, tickets sold out in about 10 minutes when they went live earlier this week. I'm not sure any hip hop/rapper has that kind of appeal internationally.
Coldnoodle
Member
Tupac has statues in Germany, UK, Italy and Spain.
I'm sure he was known to people who loved rap, but according to Wikipedia the best he ever did on the charts here (while alive) was 99. So yeah, probably lots of people have never heard about him. I personally wouldn't know about him if I didn't frequent so many american websites, I don't even think I know a song of his, or if I do then I don't know it's him.
Patrick S.
Banned
I liked Soundgarden a lot when I was a kid, but honestly grunge was always shitty and depressing, and in a way, kind of unhealthy. It was always going to die after being a fad for a while. Pac and his voice has had a much more positive effect on the world.
I lived outside the US when pac died. There were a few local kids I knew who took it hard. Rap wasn't as popular as a lot of other genres in most of the countries I lived in, but it had a pretty dedicated base that grew pretty quickly over the years. Eminem blew it wide open though. I remember being in Argentina and hearing his music in stores and over the radio, something I had never heard before up till that point. There were brief flashes with a local band having one hit and cypress hill getting some exposure, but nothing to the degree Eminem had.
Denying the popularity of rap now all over the world though is absurd. With pop rap like pitbull, drake and floridah, I hear it in every country I visit or live in played constantly. I hear it here in the middle east on the radio and blasting out of cars more than I hear any other non local genre.
Denying the popularity of rap now all over the world though is absurd. With pop rap like pitbull, drake and floridah, I hear it in every country I visit or live in played constantly. I hear it here in the middle east on the radio and blasting out of cars more than I hear any other non local genre.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
I was into hiphop and a PAC fan in the early 90s not even knowing what Nirvana was, became a rock guy by the end of the decade. Never was a fan of them when they where active and discoved them very late. Still, In Europe Nirvana was and still is bigger then PAC by at least a factor of 100.
teruterubozu
Member
There are probably thousands of Nirvana covers out there, whereas people really don't cover Tupac. I know it's not a thing to cover rap songs, but Nirvana certainly gets more airplay in various forms (even jazz).