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[Zeouterlimits]

Power corrupts.
Or something like that.

 

[Prisen]

Being against outsourcing != standing up for poor people.

 

[daycru]

Great men are almost always bad men.

 

[iapetus]

I mean,if they did all the things they did nicely they would be rich BUT at the same time loved.yeah maybe they wouldn't make 100 billion but make 50 instead ...how much fucking money can you spend in a single lifetime anyway.

Because if they did this, someone else would do things the evil way and make 100 billion while cutting them out of the market.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

When you are poor you want help, if you get rich after that you remember who didnt help you and keep for yourself. This is componded by people trying to get money from you just becuase you have lots so you can afford to give to me.

 

[Dega]

Because reality is one cruel motherfucker.

 

[durendal]

I'm not sure what you mean by nice, but I think people like Elon Musk have done a fair amount to improve the world through their businesses, so not all individuals and corporations are wholly evil. These people are pressured to bring in as much money as possible for their investors, so they will do whatever they have to. I still don't think that's an excuse for immoral or illegal behaviour, but that's their reason.

Politicians are another thing altogether. If you're running for office and you don't have the goal of actually improving society for the people you claim to represent, then you're just a narcissistic parasite.

 

[refreshZ]

 

[subversus]

because they're dicks

 

[Complex Shadow]

Fuck you, pay me.

Screamin, Jesus save me

 

[soul creator]

as far as the US goes, we wouldn't even care if corporations were "nice" if we had a functional and responsive public sector (generally known as a government). Those corporations didn't go crazy and greedy. Those corporations went corporation.

 

[electricpirate]

Because the companies that try to be nice get trampled by the companies that say "Fuck the baby seals."

 

[Manics]

Why can't the world have a no-money system? Everyone just works if they feel like it, everything is free.

 

[Puddles]

Honestly, certain things need to be untouchable. Companies should be required to provide value for their shareholders, but not at the expense of cutting jobs and wages. We really need to rewrite business law when it comes to this. There should be certain corners that you are not obligated to cut in order to maximize profits.

I mean, if all I cared about was getting down to the lowest possible weight, I could lose five pounds by cutting off my johnson, but that's just not a sacrifice I'm willing to make. It should be the same with cutting employees/benefits/pensions, etc.

 

[TheUsual]

Why can't the world have a no-money system? Everyone just works if they feel like it, everything is free.

People will find something else to envy and the cycle will repeat.

 

[Imbarkus]

Honest answer: shareholders. Great idea in theory because it grants you so much capital, but then you have a whole group of people who aren't just satisfied with profits, your profits need to be growing every quarter. And that's impossible, so you squeeze and squeeze and try to keep it up, or else you risk losing everything.

The truth here needs to be repeated so it is acknowledged.

Drive for quarterly increases prevents a company from investing in itself properly and taking a short-term loss gamble on a long-term profit investment--for example moving existing automotive technology to new energy sources in order to seize the future.

Once a company becomes public it also becomes material for people who produce nothing, service nothing, but make their living off the increases and decreases in a company's stock value, simply by buying and selling shares, often in a day's time. Or, increasing commonly, by doing nothing and having a computer programs do this "work" for them.

Truly, the vampires of western civilization: making a living off either the work or the folly of others.

 

[Petrie]

I could lose five pounds by cutting off my johnson

That sounds like an uncomfortable size.

 

[Hari Seldon]

The truth here needs to be repeated so it is acknowledged.

Drive for quarterly increases prevents a company from investing in itself properly and taking a short-term loss gamble on a long-term profit investment--for example moving existing automotive technology to new energy sources in order to seize the future.

Once a company becomes public it also becomes material for people who produce nothing, service nothing, but make their living off the increases and decreases in a company's stock value, simply by buying and selling shares, often in a day's time. Or, increasing commonly, by doing nothing and having a computer programs do this "work" for them.

Truly, the vampires of western civilization: making a living off either the work or the folly of others.

Yep, I am increasingly sure that laws need to be crafted to discourage this type of trading and encourage long term investments.

 

[Kraftwerk]

So I discussed this today with a friend of mine who operates a medium sized successful buisness.Sadly he said what a lot of people wrote here:
"I hate myself for charging extra for many things,cutting hours and whatnot but my investors are vultures that need to be pleased...literally vultures"
goddamn this shit.

 

[Xeke]

 

[Goron2000]

 

[astroturfing]

Because people that are narcissistic or greedy are usually the most ambitious, by nature those with the qualities you'd like to be in control generally don't even attempt to be in control.

i too believe this to be true. and it's the most depressing thing ever if i think about it... almost makes me hate people :/

good thing there are exceptions like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett and some other billionaires who actually do more good than i could do in a thousand lifetimes. but they're ultrarich, so rich that they've realized how crazy it would be to keep it all to themselves. many other, normally rich people however..

 

[Bluth54]

The closest you will get unless I'm missing someone else.

From the future of Team Fortress 2 interview part 1 and part 2

For us it’s not about money, right? There’s a lot of other value we get. We really like the fact that we’re making a lot of customers really happy. We think that has a huge amount of value.

We think it should be really fun to be a customer of Valve. That has a lot higher value than people would think it does, and we believed this long before we had something like Steam. We believed this back when we did Team Fortress Classic for free, when we had no way of making money out of that. It wasn’t like you could say “I love Team Fortress Classic, I like what Valve did for me there, I’m going to go buy some other product on Steam.”

Now, Steam has made that a little easier for us, in that now you can go and say “I really liked the free Alien Swarm, now I’m going to go buy something else on Steam.” I suppose cynics could argue that Alien Swarm was about us indirectly making money on Steam, but we don’t think of it that way. To us, the incremental money we can make off lots of things is worth way less than a bunch of people really, really liking being our customers, and that has way more long term value to us than anything else.

I think as companies become bigger, that becomes harder. The problem of being a company that people like becomes harder and harder the bigger you get, and so it’s something we need to be vigilant about. And I think caring about our customers is really the thing that’s going to make or break us at the end of the day.

 

[Zeliard]

In a capitalistic society, the bottom line is the bottom line. If your company is public, you have to answer to outside shareholders who don't particularly care whether or not you're making customers happy - just that you're getting money from them.

I really dread the day a company like Valve goes public. Let's hope it never happens.

 

[paranoidfortean]

you have to be a sociopath/psychopath to rise to those levels of power/money.

 

[UltimaPooh]

BEATEN!

 

[speculawyer]

Power corrupts.

 

[speculawyer]

I guess I am too naive.I just don't logically see why you would rather have everyone hate and fear you and be rich instead of everyone loving and praising you..and rich ofcourse.

People use religion to rationalize their poor behavior. It is no coincidence that the same people who are quick to call for bombing other countries are often the people who claim to be the most pious. If Jesus & God (or Muhammad & Allah or whoever) like you (or at least you've convinced yourself that they like you), then who gives a fuck what other people (especially those dirty liberals) think?

 

[MrHicks]

anyone else it think it would be cool to live in a dictatorship but the dictator being a super nice guy who has the peoples well being in mind?

are there actually benevolent dictators in recent history?

 

[Atrus]

The truth here needs to be repeated so it is acknowledged.

Drive for quarterly increases prevents a company from investing in itself properly and taking a short-term loss gamble on a long-term profit investment--for example moving existing automotive technology to new energy sources in order to seize the future.

Once a company becomes public it also becomes material for people who produce nothing, service nothing, but make their living off the increases and decreases in a company's stock value, simply by buying and selling shares, often in a day's time. Or, increasing commonly, by doing nothing and having a computer programs do this "work" for them.

Truly, the vampires of western civilization: making a living off either the work or the folly of others.

The above is an example of the typical GAF poster that knows nothing and believes that shareholders are nothing more than some elitist 1% of the population that spends their time counting the cash they burn in the fireplace.

Where do you think the pension plans of entire countries, such as the Canada Pension Plan, which is one of the best examples of a fiscally sound government investment plan, is invested in?

How do you think the government can afford the social safety net of retirements as is? Simply putting your money in a bank?

I have significant amounts of money invested in corporations in Canada and the US. What about that is easy money? I put up that money in a risk-reward situation that anyone with money could feasibly do so. If I'm not intelligent and I don't use the tax-free or tax-savings account provided by the government, up to half of that is taxable at the marginal rate.

If you're a genius why don't you do it, let's see you become a millionaire fat cat over night? Or perhaps you believe that individuals come about this investment capital by magic?

What would you rather see, that all of us spend our savings invested in some bank account in the West earning 2-3% interest? Or perhaps risk it all in small business ventures, or pathetic or risky yields in bonds?

Or is the argument that I'm earning money off of hard-working losers?

 

[Duane Cunningham]

anyone else it think it would be cool to live in a dictatorship but the dictator being a super nice guy who has the peoples well being in mind?

are there actually benevolent dictators in recent history?

I think that'd just be a king, right?

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Not to offend but I don't see what's so complicated.

A lot of this is Psychology 101 and common sense.

Psychology 101 - Everybody naturally wants power and control and will naturally want more and more as well. Not to mention people are also greedy toward materialistic items as well. And people will go through mental gymnastics and rationalize their decisions. You can't tell me that you don't see even a little bit of this in yourself. How much have you given to charity despite shelling out hundreds or even thousands on gaming hardware, software, and accessories every year? Or why won't we at least choose what companies to support? Hell there are tons of people who still get gas at BP... Oh because it's convenient for us and then we go through our own little mental gymnastics and rationalize our purchasing decisions. "I don't have much to give. $60 here and there won't help much" or "All these oil companies are evil, what's the point of signaling out one? Besides I'm sure the damage they've done to the ocean isn't THAT big of a deal. It's effects should tide over in the next year or two." Does this sound too much different then "I write enough checks, an extra $10 million here and there won't do much" or "I don't care about having my products made in sweatshops, all the businesses do it and their are worse ones then the ones the manufacturer I'm buying from is using".

Money changes people is a common term in Hollywood and in the business world, looking at your friends, family, or even yourself, would you put that quote past these people and yourself? I mean nobody in here can't tell me that they'v never knew somebody during high school that suddenly gained "in-crowd" status and started acting like a douchebag? People change.

Common Sense - Life is a game and "nice guys finish last." I tend to not like that last quote, you can be both nice and powerful, but being submissive, accepting, shyness, weakness, moral, and content with what you have are things associated with nice which are things that are going to hold you back.

Why do gringos, douchebags, and other "bad boys" often get the girl? Because they are the only ones who are going to go to extreme extents to get that girl. Yes they are going to constantly brag about themselves, yes they are going to tactically try to speed up the relationship faster than she's comfortable with, yes they are going to act fake to try and leave the best impression they can, yes they try to stop other guys from making moves on the girl they are interested in, and yes they will try to keep their options open by being friendly or cheating with other girls they're interested in. Most guys would call these things immoral, being an asshole, etc. But why would they give a crap? They're the one's dating and constantly having sex with the girls/women every guy dreams about. I can think of tons of assholes who have girlfriends that make me turn my head, while with "nice guys" I probably know enough to just barely pass all my fingers when counting with two hands.

That's just an example in real life. And thinking of it most of these successes are in the realm of business, and I can't think of a better example to demonstrate this. Business is a dog eat dog world. It's tough as nails to get in and tough as nails to survive. I could explain why being cold and ruthless helps you get ahead, but just look at some examples. What if Bill Gates didn't lie to IBM that they didn't have the DOS code? Would Microsoft even exist? What if Steve Jobs didn't screw over all of the original Apple founders? Would he be the icon he is today? Hell would Apple be where it is today? I mean yes there are some examples where epic backfire happens, see SEGA, but usually if you try to excel by being a dick, you win.

Also many people who are successful are born that way. They are born into rich families and therefore they never have struggled therefore never really appreciate what they have or care about the troubles of the lower classes because they've never been forced to live in the otherside.

In Short:

- It's human nature to want things like power and materialistic things and until we accept what we have we will never be satisfied. Again psychology 101.

- Life is a game and who ever plays it best wins. Yes cheating, not playing nice, and not having good sportsmanship is looked down upon. But those are things that will greatly get you ahead of everyone else if you're looking for our culture's definition of success.

- Most successful people are born into success, so they didn't have to work their way up, therefore they don't care about those in the lower classes.

- People are too indifferent to actually do something about it.

- Money/Power changes people. People get drunk on power and become abusive. Someone could start off as being a decent or even a good person but once they gained power they turned into an asshole. It's human nature.

 

[Imbarkus]

The above is an example of the typical GAF poster that knows nothing and believes that shareholders are nothing more than some elitist 1% of the population that spends their time counting the cash they burn in the fireplace.

Cute hyperbole. Conjures visions of Scrooge McDuck. Archetypes like this exist for a reason. BTW, I am an atypical GAF poster, and I know a few things. Like the fact that I am entitled to speak my opinion freely.

What would you rather see... perhaps risk it all in small business ventures...?

Yes. This. If you're such a captain of industry, build a company, build a community, establish a business with a vision and a direction. Then run that company with values other than pure unmitigated profit, care for your community of employees, and earn a fucking slot in Heaven (if it exists) with a generative yet unselfish life.

Or is the argument that I'm earning money off of hard-working losers?

When hard-working employees are rewarded with salary and benefit cuts, and layoffs, while shareholders reap excessive short-term profits and reward CEOs of even failing companies with outrageous bonuses... then yes, this is my argument.

Although essentially it was just an opinion.

It wasn't an argument until you showed up with your indignation.

EDIT: Listen, Man. I don't know you. I don't know anything about you. I'm not against investment or even a public stock market. I'm against day-traders, short-term investors, and a system that drives quarterly profit results for hungry and demanding shareholders--and holds it as virtually the only reason to accomplish anything in our society. You get a little butt-hurt, come out swinging with some insults, and I swing back. I'm not interested in another tired class-based flame war. Believe you are good for the world if you like, whatever.

 

[Imbarkus]

- Life is a game and who ever plays it best when (sic). Yes cheating, not playing nice, and not having good sportsmanship is looked down upon. But those are things that will greatly get you ahead of everyone else if you're looking for our culture's definition of success.

I would submit that even those who achieve our culture's definition of success find that the pressure of pursuing success does not fade, but is merely replaced by the pressure of defending success and riches.

Imagine the irony to discover that the victory is itself hollow, and the mo' money brings mo' problems, like, for example, not having a friend you feel you can trust who isn't after your money in some entourage-benefit arrangement.

Or, for another example, the persistent doubt that your head-turning girlfriend wouldn't drop you like a hot rock if you didn't have the money anymore. Or that her outside beauty reflects anything at all about the type of woman she is inside, and whether she is a good companion and friend to you.

Or, to push it even more, the persistent distance between yourself and your children, who truly wanted your time, love and attention more than all those baubles and treats that served merely to spoil them and form them into the next thankless Hilton-style heir.

This game, this perversion of the American ideal from "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" to "Work, Company Piety, and the Pursuit of Superiority" can be a hollow pursuit for those who struggle their whole life and never achieve it, or those who actually do manage to get it.

And if by chance there is some spiritual judging block, some reckoning we face for the moral and honorable timber of our actions in the spiritual world, what have we sacrificed, for a few dollars more?

Philosophy 101. Should be required coursework along with Psychology, IMO.

 

[Imbarkus]

Huh. GAF again has the answers:

$75,000 a year is all you need to be happy. Beyond that, money doesn't help with it, by itself. Though if you were doing something honorable and generative with the excess, I suppose it might help further...

 

[Mumei]

Old but it's pretty relevant to this topic.

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2010/08/buffett_gates_persuade_40_bill.html

http://nonprofiteer.net/2010/08/31/an-appraising-stare-down-the-gift-horses-gullet/

It still bothers me, to be honest.