ClosingADoor
Member
Better halt all football games and concerts that clog up the roads.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Why do Nazis get free speech apologetics while BLM gets finger wags?
- Thread starter CornBurrito
- Start date
What in particular do you question about their message?
How about those Elder videos?
Yeah I struggle with their message at times.
I mean, do black lives matter? Do they really?
It's a tough question to be sure.
schwabdizzle
Banned
I think he had a pretty good interview with Dave Rubin awhile back. Also he has other short clips from his radio show where he discusses multiple things. I really enjoyed his insite on the Keyshawn Johnson pulling his son from school. He is not as terrible as everyone makes him seem to be on here just because he is a conservative.
schwabdizzle
Banned
You tell me. I personally think all lives matter, but that will get the racist card thrown at me these days unfortunately. Feel free to dog pile me. its easy to do behind a keyboard and mouse. I just feel there are peaceful BLM Protests then there are Also the Rioting BLM Protests so it nulls the message its trying to get across to the general public.
Messofanego
Banned
Larry Elder, the black conservative who said "Black Lives Matter is based on a lie" and that discrimination and oppression against black people doesn't exist, believes that justice happens when a black person is shot by a racist white cop, amongst other opposition to BLM and tweets stuff like this.
I think we clearly know where you lie on this issue.
Well there it is.
You think it goes -beyond- a racial thing - which is legit, in the U.S. The polices liberal use of force, the literal stealing of funds and the 'blue wall' are all serious issues that have wormed their way out of just the realm of skin colour based abuse.
That being said - do you think that there is any specific issues with police and the U.S. and skin colour?
So the issue you have with their message is black?
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
It isnt corrupt cops, it a corrupt system which protects cops from oversight and encourages racist and brutal policies, at the expense of black lives.
And lol at struggling with their message in September of 2017, unless black lives dont really matter to you.
Skellig Gra
Member
Ruff Ryders will get me there on time.
ClosingADoor
Member
schwabdizzle
Banned
Actually see the last sentence of my quote.
schwabdizzle
Banned
It is a bad system I agree. I imagine there are a lot of police officers that are unfit to do the job correctly. I know St. Louis right now is looking for a new Chief maybe after Ferguson and the Stockley trial, they can get some change in all of this. There has to be a better way of weeding out bad cops from the system. I also believe body cams could of prevented both of the mentioned incidents, even though Stockley happened years before Ferguson.
I assume "all" includes black lives, right?
And yet it only comes up as a counterargument 🤔
Ninja Scooter
Member
Do you get upset when people do fundraisers for Breast Cancer because ALL Cancers are important?
Nastrodamous
Member
all never includes black.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Traffic happens. Shitty bosses got nothing to do with protests, that's its own problem. How has it been proven to not be effective? If you believe that the tactic of disruptive protests is not effective, then you must equally be against the Montgomery protests.
Which inconvenienced a lot of white people, and caused near bankruptcy to buses with the boycott. White supremacist groups got more recruitment because of angry inconvenienced white people. If you say what did the innocent general public do to deserve such inconvenience, well then what did marginalised groups do to deserve oppression and bigotry? You could be a centrist and say both are bad, but at some point you got to weight up which one is more important to you to rail against.
At least we know he wasn't an MLK fan.
schwabdizzle
Banned
All cancers are important. My father is was just diagnosed with Stage 4 so yes.....all cancers are important to make aware.
ClosingADoor
Member
You are really missing the point here.
Ninja Scooter
Member
So is it wrong to have specific Breast Cancer fundraisers or organizations? Do you disagree with them?
"All lives matter" is racist. Period.
Black Lives Matter is about trying to change the police force and justice system that specifically targets black people across the country. It has nothing to do with you if you're white. No one cares about your snowflake bullshit. Shut the fuck up.
Black Lives Matter is about trying to change the police force and justice system that specifically targets black people across the country. It has nothing to do with you if you're white. No one cares about your snowflake bullshit. Shut the fuck up.
I think people are having issue with your 'all lives matter' statement specifically, as it's used as a 'counter statement' to black lives matter.
Do you understand that issue, or the way people feel about that statement used in response to 'black lives matter'?
Randolph Freelander
Member
You can thank right wing media for only covering Black Lives Matter in the most negative of contexts. I have a feeling most white folk literally think BLM is just a police-murdering gang, because that's all they see on Fox News.
Rioting is not part of their platform so what part of their message do you have issue with?
Do you say all cancers matter at a breast cancer awareness fundraiser?
schwabdizzle
Banned
It should not be a counter measure is my point. People take offense to it to take offense.
Squirrel Killer
Member
As an ardent free speech advocate, I heartily approve of BLM's right to protest. I unenthusiastically approve of Nazi/alt-right/Rush Limbaugh/etc... right to express themselves as a matter of principle while encouraging everyone to speak against them. I am very close "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
In terms of finger wagging, I would wag my finger at just about everything Nazis do: the blatant racism, the loser fetishism, the stupid chants, the misplaced sense of superiority, conflict baiting, etc...
FTR - While I am a free speech advocate, I also recognize that private entities (such as Facebook, Twitter, NeoGAF, etc...) are under no obligation to host someone else's expression of their right to free speech.
I don't really see myself sacrificing my life to defend Nazi speech.
In terms of finger wagging, I would wag my finger at just about everything Nazis do: the blatant racism, the loser fetishism, the stupid chants, the misplaced sense of superiority, conflict baiting, etc...
FTR - While I am a free speech advocate, I also recognize that private entities (such as Facebook, Twitter, NeoGAF, etc...) are under no obligation to host someone else's expression of their right to free speech.
Ninja Scooter
Member
If it's not a counter message, why the fuck do you and others like you say it in counter to Black Lives Matter? You literally just did that in this thread. You are full of shit.
Hope he does not skip this question. I want to know!
Messofanego
Banned
He already made it clear how he feels when he cites Larry Elder as his source on these kinds of issues.
Messofanego
Banned
Egalitarians plz
At this point I think he'd be more upset that the fundraiser is only for cancerous breasts. What about the healthy ones? #AllBreastsMatter
People take offense to all lives matter because it's used in response to the statement black lives matter, which is the name of a large political movement about how specifically black lives are often viewed as less valuable than non black lives. It would be as if, to use the cancer argument again, you were raising awareness for prostate cancer after a loved one passed away from it and someone responded to your event named 'prostate cancer awareness' by saying 'all cancer is important, why focus on prostate?'.
If that happened, would you think that dismissal of an issue near and dear to someone's heart would not only be offensive, but misguided? Do you think the prostate cancer event in any way says that other cancers (like the one that your father had) are not important?
What did he mean by this?
Member
It was only invented as a counter measure to BLM. It was literally never uttered before people started saying "Black Lives Matter"
It started as a counter measure and youre using it in this thread as a counter measure.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Is this you being deliberately obtuse in regards to the question? Because come the fuck on.
Traffic happens. Shitty bosses got nothing to do with protests, that's its own problem. How has it been proven to not be effective? If you believe that the tactic of disruptive protests is not effective, then you must equally be against the Montgomery protests.
Which inconvenienced a lot of white people, and caused near bankruptcy to buses with the boycott. White supremacist groups got more recruitment because of angry inconvenienced white people. If you say what did the innocent general public do to deserve such inconvenience, well then what did marginalised groups do to deserve oppression and bigotry? You could be a centrist and say both are bad, but at some point you got to weight up which one is more important to you to rail against.
I'm legitimately confused by your post. You start questioning my feeling that inconveniencing people isn't effective and then give an example where a major inconvenience results in an increase in recruitment of white supremacists. You actively proved my point.
At some point, you have to weigh whether it's better to keep using the same ineffective tactics, assuming that whatever you do is right just because you have the moral high ground, or whether you actually want to get something done and should consider new tactics.
And I'm not railing against anything. I was criticizing he dismissive arguments you were making against another poster. I want more BLM protests. I just don't think halting traffic does nearly as much as you believe it does to accomplish anything. You told somebody else how to feel about being stuck in traffic. Good luck explaining your position to everybody else in traffic. I assure you, they don't care and you've pushed many of them further away.
Edit: also I'd appreciate you not putting a bunch of bad arguments in my mouth in order to shoot them down. I never claimed the public was innocent or couldn't be inconvenienced under any circumstances. I just don't think stopping traffic does anything to help in a lot of cases.
schwabdizzle
Banned
Well I am not racist, and I'm being accused as one. I'll leave this thread with one final point. I am sorry if you all view All Lives Matter as racist, in my eyes its not. Yes, there is a porblem with the justice system and background checks of officers just like background checks of people whom buy guns. There are flaws everywhere in the government period. I Don't mind peaceful BLM demonstrations, but sometime rioting occurs and the message gets mixed because there are bad apples to the bunch. I get the message for redefining the justice system, but there has to be other ways that are more effective to get the point across. Also, one final note, Stockley should of been charged with something, but the Micheal Brown thing is still questionable IMHO. It does not make me racist or a bigot I feel that way, but without Body Cams, its hard to tell. I think maybe a Body Cam movement could help more than people think,
MagnaderAlpha
Member
I wonder why? People like you don't grasp what "BLM" MEANS. It is a statement that Black lives Matter AS MUCH AS everyone else, ESPECIALLY White lives. That Black lives are NOT worthless or sub-human, that they should be treated with the dignity, understanding and compassion that all Whitefolk receive by default. The problem with people like you is that you either perceived the message wrong, believing "Black Lives Matter" means "Black Lives Matter MORE than everybody else", or you just don't believe Black people's lives are worth anything at all.
As for the violence, sometimes protests bring out a few people that look to capitalize on these protests by using them to mask their own troubles. Though, other times, you gotta understand how systematically the Black communities of the nation got fucked by the Whites in charge. Even to this day people are telling them how to protest, how to walk down the street, basically coded variations of "Know your place!". Forgive them for being pissed, especially when the police hold no qualms about killing them for no reason at all, and these blue bastards get away with it every damn time. How would you feel if you wanted to state that YOU matter, and that your people matter, but everybody is saying, "Yeah, nah, everybody matters", then those people leave it at that, turn their backs as the police rush in and fuck you up JUST FOR THE FACT that YOU EXIST?
"All Lives" DON'T matter UNTIL Black Lives do, because if Black Lives DON'T, then there is NO "All".
I stopped reading right there because I knew everything coming after that was going to be complete garbage. Your shtick isn't clever or new.
That post-history
Lets say you are blissfully stupid enabler of racism?
My mistake
Lets say you are blissfully stupid enabler of racism?
My mistake
bossmonkey
Member
That's somewhat of a false equivalency. Football games and concerts are planned events and you can avoid them if need be. 8 people standing in the middle of 526 when there are only 2 possible ways for me to get home at night and no where for me to turn around to avoid them is something else entirely. The right to protest is one of the most important in America however you don't have to be an asshole while doing it.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I don't give a fuck if you are racist or not, you are coming across as ignorant as fuck in this thread, and peddling statements and bullet points that are used and co-signed by racists, such as "All Lives Matter". You know who else has bad apples in the bunch? The police force, which necessitates the need for something like Black Lives Matter. Maybe people like you should focus some more of your attention on the "bad apples" with badges and guns instead of trying to shut up and muddy the waters for the people that actually are trying to get an important message across.
But by all means, leave the thread now. We all know that's what happens when you run out of bullshit to spew.
Prime crotch
Banned
No, there's not. Not for minorities at least.
What did he mean by this?
Member
If the barrier between someone being a white supremacist or not is being inconvenienced in traffic.....maybe they already had white supremacist tendencies before hand?
Just maybe
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Precisely.
The nerve of these assholes to think anyone actually believes that THEY believe that ALL LIVES MATTER.
The same folks that vote for Donald Trump spouting that shit like it's a literal statement, and not a bilateral one to slyly justify brutality and an unjust system.
Blue Lives Matter is even more egregious.