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[John Kowalski]

What is this question. Games are like everything, they are better in some things than others, and if the balance is positive then the experience is positive.

Folks have such weird ways to look at games.

 

[martino]

Yep, it's insane how much control you have in the last two AC games. Quick tips OP, pick and choose when to tap or hold X or O while running. DO NOT just hold X at all times. You need to think of the level design as a 3D space and constantly decide what move to make next to keep your momentum going.

This is just using R2

This is what happens if you hold R2+X after as you're swinging from the first monkey bar

This is what happens if you hold R2+O as you swing from the first monkey bar

A bit more complex.
This is what happens if you hold R2+X for the first jump and then hold O as you grab the monkey bar followed by double tapping O to roll, which negates fall damage.

And this is what happens if you slide and use the parkour down control followed by just holding R2

Always remember that R2+O while running=vaulting to get over obstacles to keep your momentum going

You'll notice in all of these gifs that he's stopping on a dime as soon as the player lets go of the controls too instead of walking forward a little bit like in say GTA, the game absolutely has very little animation priority and will even interrupt finishing moves for a parry. They absolutely depend on you to be able to think on your feet, (or like an assassin), to figure out what to press at what time in order to make an escape, cross a rooftop, or close the distance between yourself and a target.

So the problem isn't necessarily the controls OP. Unless you consider a learning curve and skill gap to be a problem?

ok didn't play the last AC but from that i understand controls are more deep (and interesting) that most think and the problem is probably here.

 

[Fjordson]

But none of those games have bad controls imo (not an objective thing mang). There's some weirdness in AC with the climbing, but that's it.

So to answer the question: N/A

 

[TheRed]

Watch Dogs has the best shooting mechanics by far in any open world game. That's one area where it absolutely destroys GTA.

Watch Dogs controlled beautifully, the shooting and stealth was awesome. I even loved the driving. Man now remembering the satisfying controls I want to buy Watch Dogs 2 even though I was gonna wait for it to be cheaper.
I hate GTA 5 controls which sucks because it's world is beautiful, I just don't want to move around in it for long.
AC controls well with the additions they made in Unity. Screw the haters

 

[Crossing Eden]

ok didn't play the last AC but from that i understand controls are more deep (and interesting) that most think and the problem is probably here.

It takes some getting used to because the way they teach you the controls is a bit less than ideal for a completely overhauled control scheme since it's a chase scene and many players are thinking more about the immediate objective instead of absorbing the controls.

 

[jdstorm]

I've also started playing through Assasins Creed Unity.

I'd say the controls are pretty good. I'm occasionally getting issues with the cover bind button, and I miss the Double Assasination bailout that was easy to pull off in AC2/4. However overall I'm enjoying it more then I thought I would. I guess that's the benefit of lowered expectations

 

[Freshmaker]

Sorry, but what you've wrote doesn't feel objective at all. Holding a button to run is a bad thing... really? That's literally the matter of preference.

When it's the same button that makes your character randomly cling to walls and wagons while you're trying to shadow someone...

 

[kyser73]

Disagree, all of those games control fine imo, Unity being one of the best out of those listed.

Can't comment on The Witcuer as I only have a couple of hours with it, but yeah Unity especially has an amazing flow to the parkour once you get the control system. Syndicate's grappling hook was awesome too.

I just find adjusting to the way the animation works in these games is key to enjoying the controls, and rather than saying 'this game controls badly' I remember the designers are attempting to mimic real-life movement where momentum & inertia are things to consider. Adjust your play style to the game, not try and force the game to play the way you want/think it should.

In terms of object collision issues...yeah, it's still an issue especially in Creed games but ultimately be its s fine line between enabling a really complex traversal system and 'intelligent' object proximity detection & response.

OTOH I find character action games to be exercises in overly complicated button pressing sequences that I'm unable to attain any kind of proficiency in because I find those controls unresponsive, and platformers have to do little more than run & jump, which is s whole level below the complexity of interacting in an open world.

 

[Oneself]

They also get a free pass for overall subpar gameplay.

MGSV being the exception but its open world aspect is poor.

Dying Light is pretty good though.

 

[Screaming Meat]

What is this question. Games are like everything, they are better in some things than others, and if the balance is positive then the experience is positive.

Yup. Whether that balance works is entirely down to the individual too.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

When it's the same button that makes your character randomly cling to walls and wagons while you're trying to shadow someone...

Oh, that's different though. The problem isn't having a button to dash, it's having a button that does two separate things that get in conflict. The "roadie run" in Gears of War is annoying like that too.

Souls games have you hold O to run, and tap O to dodge, but they don't ever collide or anything (though adding L3 to jump in DS2 and 3 did fix the rare accidental-jump thing so that's good!).

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Mgsv so far has the best controls for open world

Agree with you on ass creed games op, the controls never feel fluid, feels like ass to play them.

Looking over the Horizon, Zelda breath of the wild should be the next open world game with fluid tight ass controls.

Horizon Zero Dawn will set the standard for controls in an open world game.

 

[kmg90]

Unity's controls don't suck, it's just a broken mess of game.


Never before have I been trolled by a games bugs to make me completely drop it even though I believe I was close to seeing conclusion of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbnXgZiRR2g


I will also chime in and say AC controls are phenomenal and gotten even better with each installment since 3.

GTA is it's own can worms, Rockstar's use of Euphoria is the main culprit to what I think what most people have issues with (not responsive, can't stop or turn on a dime).
Also the mash X to run is the result of them "fixing" the exploit of mashing x to run infinitely (GTA 3 and Vice City only)

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Horizon Zero Dawn will set the standard for controls in an open world game.

I doubt it controls as well as Dragon's Dogma, but hopefully you are right!

 

[Decado]

Yeah, I generally steer clear of open world games, though The Witcher 3 and GTA5 are tempting. The latter with mods.

Never understood the appeal of poor controls and mechanics easily associated with open world games.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Assassin's Creed's control issues a have always been a little overblown, especially compared to some other titles. Against the ones in the OP, for example, it's a step above, not to mention it has WAY better contextual animations, and stretches of fluidity those games can't even begin to come close to. AC still has issues with stickiness and autopilot magnetism, as well as animation hitching occasionally, but considering how much is happening and the amount of climbing hand/footholds, it's incredible that the traversal system works as well as it does.

The Witcher 3, again, I feel is overblown. Admittedly it does weirdly fluctuate between too loose and too sluggish, but the game rarely asks you to do anything crazy, or that involves a ton of rapid movement and maneuver chains. At most you have to spam quick dodge against the more aggressive enemies, but it's fairly responsive. If anything, the biggest issue with the game is lack of hit stun on enemies combined with their attack cycles having little cooldown, but this is something that happens in most WRPGs as well.

GTA/RDR on the other hand, feel like junk. Not only are the characters extremely heavy and slow to respond, but combat promotes quick movement against enemies that do rapid hitscan damage from all ranges. Whether just walking around or in heated combat and set-pieces moments, they handle like hippos driving submarines. It always feels like I'm fighting the running animations, turn radius, sticky cover, and cover animations just as much as the enemies. And yes, tapping to sprint is still as garbage as ever, and simply feels bad as a basic control input.

Games do seem to be making progress though, where open world devs are actually trying to match what happens in more limited campaigns, with strides made by games like Watch_Dogs, MGSV, Infamous, Sunset Overdrive, Dragon's Dogma, etc. Way more examples of solid controls in big games than we used to have.

 

[Lunar15]

Because some of those are still really fucking good games?

Games have a lot of elements to them. People have definitely called out W3 and GTA for their bad control schemes.

 

[WaterAstro]

From all games you mentioned I would say only Assassin's Creed has problems with controls, but the addition of parkour up and down buttons helped the situation even there.

I agree. Ass Creed has always had terrible controls since 1.

Dude keeps getting stuck on walls, doing stupid flimy wall hops for no reason when I'm trying to chase someone.

 

[usp84]

There is no excuse for bad controls. Not for an RPG not for any game.

But in the end I learn to get over it

 

[noqtic]

One of the main reason why I cant get into the GTA series (after San Andreas) is because the controls are so damn poor now.

GTA IV and V just feel so clunky and stiff.

 

[Purest 78]

Although it's not a standard open world game. Nothing touchs infamous Second son imo.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

It's because physics in GTA. Those gif where a characters foot gets stuck in the objects of the world rather than getting stuck in the geometry in a gamey way are mighty impressive.

As for AC, it is because they want the character to look like a ream human so the focus is in animation.

and the Witcher, well this is a series where you couldn't jump until now and it was more about getting to the location so you can start taking with people.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I agree. Ass Creed has always had terrible controls since 1.

Dude keeps getting stuck on walls, doing stupid flimy wall hops for no reason when I'm trying to chase someone.

There's controls for vaulting...

 

[PnCIa]

Gta games (that includes 5) are the biggest offenders.
R* has so much money. They create so much detailed content. And yet, those games are not fun to play on foot with their input delay and focus on blievable animation that take away control.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

The only time I had trouble with Witcher 3's controls is with Roach and for some reason when I try to talk to people it takes multiple inputs.

 

[CHC]

What the hell is a "free pass"? People have talked about the sloppy controls in all of those games extensively but at the end of the day, what are they supposed to do? Not buy the game?

That would be incredibly silly - mediocre controls take about 2 hours maximum to get used to, and in return you get a massive, detailed, and outstanding world to explore.

 

[Alo0oy]

I don't think Assassin's Creed belongs here, sure it doesn't control as fluidly as Infamous or Metal Gear, but it's not an abomination like Fallout/The Witcher/GTA.

And I don't think it's a Western vs Eastern thing, I think it's just that open world games control bad across the board. From the Eastern side you have Dragon's Dogma and Metal Gear that control well, from the Western side you have Infamous and Prototype, barely any other open world game controls well no matter where it was made.

But the problem is indeed very widespread, so widespread that in Horizon Zero Dawn threads there are posts that say "this can't be an open world game", because the game looks too fluid.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

What the hell is a "free pass"? People have talked about the sloppy controls in all of those games extensively but at the end of the day, what are they supposed to do? Not buy the game?

Sure

That would be incredibly silly - mediocre controls take about 2 hours maximum to get used to, and in return you get a massive, detailed, and outstanding world to explore.

Not buying a game because you hate how it plays is not "silly". Dear gods... As for the exploration, well, if we're talking about GTA and AssCreed, these "massive detailed worlds" bore the shit out of me, so it's not like it's all that rewarding anyway.

 

[shandy706]

Horizon games control great!

 

[mr teaspoon]

I'm with you, OP. Would love to enjoy a GTA game someday, but those controls are inexcusable.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Sure


Not buying a game because you hate how it plays is not "silly".

As long as it is not hearsay tho

 

[Tigress]

Honestly I don't get the complaint about poor controls with fallout. Animatons have nothing to do with controls and I don't find I have much issue telling my character where to go unlike assassin's creed (the worst, no I didn't want you to jump off, I wanted you to go right and up, argh!!! ), gta (it's better/tolerable at least), or to a lesser extent witcher. All of those feel more clunky and like I am giving the character general directions of where I want him/her to go and hoping they get it right (particularly assasin's creed). Bethesda games though I do feel like I have decent control of where I'm telling my character to go.

(Then again maybe it's cause I only play Bethesda games in first person where as the other three I listed are all third person).

Though I suppose I would say dying light and maybe dragon's dogma (it's been a while since I played it so can't remember but don't remember being annoyed by controls) is better in that regard.

 

[WillyFive]

Yep, it's insane how much control you have in the last two AC games. Quick tips OP, pick and choose when to tap or hold X or O while running. DO NOT just hold X at all times. You need to think of the level design as a 3D space and constantly decide what move to make next to keep your momentum going.

This is just using R2

This is what happens if you hold R2+X after as you're swinging from the first monkey bar

This is what happens if you hold R2+O as you swing from the first monkey bar

A bit more complex.
This is what happens if you hold R2+X for the first jump and then hold O as you grab the monkey bar followed by double tapping O to roll, which negates fall damage.

And this is what happens if you slide and use the parkour down control followed by just holding R2

Always remember that R2+O while running=vaulting to get over obstacles to keep your momentum going

You'll notice in all of these gifs that he's stopping on a dime as soon as the player lets go of the controls too instead of walking forward a little bit like in say GTA, the game absolutely has very little animation priority and will even interrupt finishing moves for a parry. They absolutely depend on you to be able to think on your feet, (or like an assassin), to figure out what to press at what time in order to make an escape, cross a rooftop, or close the distance between yourself and a target.

So the problem isn't necessarily the controls OP. Unless you consider a learning curve and skill gap to be a problem?

I've only played AC1, 2, and Syndicate; but the controls became worse in Syndicate than they were in 1 and 2. Less responsive, more convoluted, and the character did things I didn't want him/her to do (like jump across a gap instead of climbing it down), stuff that did not happen in the original games.

 

[Rathorial]

Well open world games get some leeway in areas like controls when they let you do more to or with your environment than linear games do.

GTA's core controls may still be mediocre to crap, but it attempts to simulate a dense population of people with cars, traffic, and a variety of things have dynamic physics to them vs. more simplified state changes. In Bethesda games, I can pick up a variety of objects just in the environment by pointing to them, or I can loot an enemy whose individual clothes will disappear.

The open-world games that tend to feature stronger controls, reduce how you collide or interact with your environment. I'm seeing MGSV get brought up, but it's not like the game lets you climb nearly anything jutting out from a building like Assassin's Creed...you just do some light mantling (like so many games) with a slide that reacts to slope like multiple other games. You're not getting dense locations of people from enemies to pedestrians, or traffic with a varied set of very physics based vehicles...but instead segregated bases with enemies like Far Cry. Also, Kojima spent a long enough time that the game went cross-gen, and he went over-budget.

I still think Sunset Overdrive and Infamous Second Son strike the best balance to offer great controls. You have more varied traversal options like grinding, wallrunning, hovering/gliding, jump pads, etc. So you still get diverse ways to move through your environment promoting creativity, but they involve less complex objects (flatter surfaces) with less density of objects fighting for collision to activate their function. Then they layer in a decent degree of more over the top weapons and enemy types to make combat enjoyable.

 

[leng jai]

There's definitely a trend of more realistic or grounded open world games having more issues with their controls. That's why it's such a shame Watch Dogs turned out to be pretty mediocre - it had wonderful controls that were under appreciated because the rest of the game was not great. It seems difficult to have both no matter how big your budget or dev team is.

Sunset Overdrive, Crackdown and Infamous all control very well but it's obvious that the everything from the gameplay to world design is completely different to that of something like GTA or AC.

It takes some getting used to because the way they teach you the controls is a bit less than ideal for a completely overhauled control scheme since it's a chase scene and many players are thinking more about the immediate objective instead of absorbing the controls.

You've motivated me to put more effort into understanding Unity's controls. If it's as overhauled as you say the game does an absolutely dreadful job of actually showing you.

 

[Man God]

GTA has had garbage controls compared to the standards at the time for its entire run. Still the biggest open world game. I guess everything else makes up for it.

 

[KdylanR92]

They don't. I see people bitching about the controls in those games every other week.

It seems like most open world games get a "free pass" of some sort, take Dragon's Dogma which is mentioned a lot when it comes to controls and combat, everyone just seems to forget that outside of combat everything in the game is either mediocre or garbage.

 

[Agent Matt]

I agree with you OP.

what, exactly, is wrong with holding a dash button to run?

Depends on the button. Holding a face button to run means you can't aim and run at the same time. Holding down a stick button to run is fatiguing and makes aiming that stick more difficult. Holding down a shoulder/trigger to run is fine but shoulder/trigger real estate is at a premium for the reasons previously mentioned.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

re: GTA (IV and V)

The games potentially make up for the jank with the physics and possibilities brought about by the game engine and detailed open world. You can shoot an oncoming car with a rocket launcher and one of its doors can fly off and kill somebody else — that is supremely dope, and just one of thousands of possibilities at any given moment.

In actuality, the single player for these games too often features scripted and linear missions that don't capitalize on the games' systems and potential. It's why I have a soft spot for multiplayer in the latest GTA games, but hate how they're either barebones, or structured in a terribly unfun, restrictive way.

Give me a GTA with a proper approach to multiplayer and no terrible limits and no focus on grinding, and I'm set brah

 

[ffejeromdiks]

I don't really give a shit about responsive controls in a GTA game, I don't need every single game to respond to input the same precise and instant way counter strike does. GTA4 and 5 would be significantly worse games without it's heavy emphasis on animation, i can keep myself occupied for hours just fucking around with the ragdoll.

Max Payne 3 is arguably the best third person shooter ever made and guess what....input delay. There's absolutely nothing wrong with animation priority, it can be done right like Rockstar has shown multiple times. I won't defend Asscreed though, that game plays like total shit and its incredible that they haven't really improved much in the decade(?) since the first game.

On the other hand MGS5 does play like an absolute dream as far as minimal input delay goes, but I wouldn't want that same type of fluidity in a psuedo-realistic crime simulator like GTA. I mean if you want responsive controls...play any other open world game on the market, not every genre needs to me streamlined to the point where every fuckin' game plays the same.

 

[WillyFive]

Depends on the button. Holding a face button to run means you can't aim and run at the same time. Holding down a stick button to run is fatiguing and makes aiming that stick more difficult. Holding down a shoulder/trigger to run is fine but shoulder/trigger real estate is at a premium for the reasons previously mentioned.

The only time I feel it is appropriate to have a run button is when your gameplay design has the need to give the player a choice of running or walking and you have no analog stick on your controller. If you have an analog stick, there's no need for a run button at all. If your game only controls digitally (like say FPS on KB+M), then it's appropriate only if the gameplay requires two different movement speeds. Anything else, and you are just wasting buttons and increasing complexity for no reason.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

As someone who played AC Black Flag, AC Rogue, AC Unity and AC Syndicate, the controls are worse in Unity and Syndicate compared to BF and Rogue. Ubisoft needs to switch it back to what it was in Rogue and simply fine tune it to make it tighter, more responsive and more intelligent when free running. Holding down the R2/RT button to free run and just using the analog stick for which way you want to go/jump was the best setup and just needed fine tuning. Instead, Ubisoft changed the entire control scheme and sorry but despite being a huge Ubisoft fanboy, it sucks. Arno/Jacob/Evie never go where you want them to go and trying to go inside an opened window is beyond frustrating. Hoping the extra year they took off allows them to go back to what the scheme was and just fine tune it as that's all they needed to do. Just add in a crouch button to the BF/Rogue control scheme and done.

 

[sn00zer]

MGSV is the best controlling game I've ever played...truly incredible it being open world, and totally agree there is no excuse anymore. That game did a lot of things wrong, but it kicked the expectations for gameplay in an open world into the stratosphere.

 

[BigTnaples]

Eh, I think most if not all those games control just fine.

 

[NCR Redslayer]

MGS 5 bankrupt kojima.
Seriously it went through a lot of iterations. Metal Gear Rising died and got rebranded in that time frame.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

The AC games have always had somewhat shitty controls. Unity had some improvements but you'd be right to say it's still easy to run into blocks and things that ruin your flow. After some thinking, the main issue seems to be it's not easy to read the environments regarding what is and is not possible to traverse, and it's not that uncommon for you to start climbing up something, only to find that there's some annoying block that you can't easily get past and have to find an alternate way around. It's like in Mass Effect 1 with the mako, the system of traversal is so flexible and can do such ridiculous angles that when you do run into an edge case that you can't get past you've often committed a fair bit of time to getting where you are and now have to turn around.

By the end of Unity I was better at it, but it still never felt fully comfortable particularly in cases where you're trying to navigate transitions between outdoors and indoors.

 

[UncleMeat]

Before MGSV came along I thought Sleeping Dogs was about as good as you could do open world. I mean it's not perfect and the driving is too arcade-like but the shooting is underrated (stringing together bullet time moves is a lot of fun) and the combat is one of my favorites; it aped arkham system but I liked it better.

Mad Max on xbox one has the worst input lag of any game I've ever played. Completely ruined the game for me.

 

[Daeoc]

GTA movement/controls is probably why I think GTA past San Andreas is a struggle to play. IV was terrible, V was better but not there yet.

For Witcher 3, the Alternate movement and the dodge button save the feel of the game for me.

Nothing open world beats MGSV.

 

[hydruxo]

I just hate how GTA still makes you rapidly press A / X to sprint. I don't know if they just stuck with it because it's a GTA thing at this point or what but it's annoying as hell. I've always felt that GTA gets too much of a pass when it comes to its controls.

 

[Cave Johnson]

I just hate how GTA still makes you rapidly press A / X to sprint. I don't know if they just stuck with it because it's a GTA thing at this point or what but it's annoying as hell. I've always felt that GTA gets too much of a pass when it comes to its controls.

They always do.