Support NeoGAF

[SliceSabre]

Because it is still more difficult than console gaming by just enough that I don't feel like dealing with the hassle.

Friends always say "Dude we can help you build one." Then I look up CPUs, GPUs, RAM etc and I just say "Fuck it." turn on my ps4 and move on down the street. I realize that it is possible to make PC gaming as comfortable as console gaming but the initial cost to entry is way higher than I'd like it to be.

 

[Swarna]

It's a non-issue that solves itself. People who think PC gaming is difficult should frankly stay away from it for everyone's sake. I'd argue that there are too many people playing on PC's when they shouldn't be and they end up cluttering places like the steam forum with useless content. Brb can't max out a game so that means it's unoptimized, brb game exposes the cooling flaw in my rig but that means the game is killing my GPU, brb still using 4-8GB RAM in 2017 and wondering why my games stutter, brb brb brb. Stop introducing it to people it is unsuitable for, jeez.

It only feels like work if you don't embrace the strengths of the platform itself. Basically bare options upon options and getting the exact experience you personally want instead of something arbitrarily chosen by someone else who doesn't know you. Gaming outside of this platform has been irrelevant to me in a long time simply due to how stifling it can be in many regards. Like, basic shit like custom binds are a rarity. Everything is played on laggy-ass v-sync @60hz with no alternatives. FPS games feel like shit on controllers compared to the pure bliss of a super-light mouse with a high-end sensor on a 35 inch-wide mouse pad with low sensitivity. If I have drunk friends over and one of them really wants to use a dildo with buttons and a usb port as a game controller I can't do shit about it on PS4. Also, the amount of downtime due to loading screens and the like. PC gaming is just much faster and more convenient than consoles to someone who uses it as their main platform. It's not for everyone, that's for sure, but it's fucking awesome for the intended audience.

 

[John Kowalski]

Older games can be a hassle

 

[pa22word]

I think it's obvious it is more difficult and requires more tinkering compared to consoles. Now is it complicated? Depends entirely of how much you enjoy understanding it and putting things together. There will always be people that just can't be bothered to devote their time to it, and that doesn't make them stupid or lazy for not putting their gaming PC together.

Being able to build a pc isn't a prereq for being stupid and lazy at all.

Check out any high end game thread from around the turn of the console launch to see straight tears at going to the settings screen and setting everything at ultra and being upset their systems couldn't run it as well as they /thought/ it should.

If you want some hilarious laughs from PC gamers on stupidity check out the Shadow of Mordor 6GB VRAM thread.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

I've had a gaming PC since 2015. Why did I wait so long? Because the simple act of building one was fucking rocket science to me. And that is still the case. I was lucky enough to have a friend that did it all for me. I told him my budget and he got all the parts for me and put it all together for me. If I didn't have this person then no way in hell would I even think about doing this myself. The fact is that it's too complicated for me. And I'm NEVER going to upgrade this thing myself. If I ever feel it's necessary I'll just have to hope this same friend will do it for me.

Now, since having this PC built for me, my issues have been limited. For the most part it's download game, run game, done. I don't tinker with shit. Major issues have been rare and are usually just with older games. But the entry was a huge barrier for me and always will be for many other people that don't have someone willing to do the building for them and know what the fuck you're even supposed to get.

 

[nOoblet16]

You have an intel processor and an nvidia gpu.

Now seriously, problems will happen more often with PCs, especially in cheap ones.

Well there are only 4 CPU-GPU combinations out there anyways.

 

[mjp2417]

The tech support thread is not about tinkering. Those are real world problems.

Show me the posts I ignored that solves the PC issues in that thread (or various PC performance threads), because that is a strong evidence that many are trying hard to ignore or divert from. Your single trouble-free PC experience won't cancel them out.

Most PC Performance threads are about tinkering with graphics settings to get optimum performance. I'm not going to pretend like more crashing issues don't exist on PC than on console (they do), but I genuinely can't remember the last new release that was actually complicated to get running at a basic console level. Even stuff like Arkham City, Quantum Break, and Forza Horizon 3 you could lock to 30 FPS and be done with it. Crashing, in my experience, tends to result from new drivers + legacy games rather than new drivers + new games and performance threads tend to be largely about coaxing significantly better than console performance out of new games. When that isn't possible (see the 3 aforementioned games) those threads are on the front page for weeks.

 

[Widge]

Being able to build a pc isn't a prereq for being stupid and lazy at all.

Check out any high end game thread from around the turn of the console launch to see straight tears at going to the settings screen and setting everything at ultra and being upset their systems couldn't run it as well as they /thought/ it should.

If you want some hilarious laughs from PC gamers on stupidity check out the Shadow of Mordor 6GB VRAM thread.

You know what, I didn't even think about the settings side of things. I've tried to prime my dad about resolution, aliasing, AF... all that sort of stuff, but it's just a different world for so many people. Self discovery tools don't always work either. His 1060 equipped machine deemed that Oblivion should run at Medium. It also fired up to black screen in game, which I had to resolve.

 

[Business]

Being able to build a pc isn't a prereq for being stupid and lazy at all.

Check out any high end game thread from around the turn of the console launch to see straight tears at going to the settings screen and setting everything at ultra and being upset their systems couldn't run it as well as they /thought/ it should.

If you want some hilarious laughs from PC gamers on stupidity check out the Shadow of Mordor 6GB VRAM thread.

I really wonder how you got that from my post? :/

 

[mjp2417]

It is well above original PS4 (which had something like 7870), but not above PS4 Pro (which has double GPU resources)

A 970 is faster than a 470. The PS4 Pro's GPU is an under clocked 470. A 970 is simply faster than the PS4 Pro's GPU. It just is. I don't know what to tell you here.

 

[Izuna]

His 1060 equipped machine deemed that Oblivion should run at Medium.

Lmao

 

[Izuna]

Well there are only 4 CPU-GPU combinations out there anyways.

The same way there are only 3 consoles since 2002?

 

[Jamiaro]

The reality of playing on a PC is that you're occasionally going to have to troubleshoot a game that doesn't work or doesn't work properly.

I wouldn't say it's difficult. If you can google, you can generally get along fine most of the time. But despite developers releasing broken games, it's still generally more of a crapshoot on PC than on console.

I feel the same way. I'd just get annoyed.

 

[Bulbasaur]

Yes. Yes it is.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Sometimes reading forums with majority console population it makes me feel like I'm a master engineer certified with sound card driver updates and floppy disk alternatives.

Older games can be a hassle

But you can play older games.



Oh and if people still use the argument that building is hard there's a ton of shops that do custom PC assembly and upgrades.

 

[hersheyfan]

I think that aside from cost considerations and fear of tinkering with expensive parts, theres a stigma that lingers from the people who actually WERE PC gamers back in the day and migrated to console in the PS1 era.

I know I lived through those times, and the ease of use of the console experience (and the tantalizing prospect if getting out of the hardware rat race) convinced me to stop upgrading my PC and get a PS1.

- Hardware was evolving at a much faster rate at the time, and a PC you bought this year would really be nigh on useless in two years. People from my dad's generation (in their 60s) still believe this up to now, even the non-gamers, and many from my generation (early 30's) still do as well because its what their parents taught them.

- PC games you bought off the shelf at launch usually had some pretty funky performance issues that you needed to troubleshoot, especially if you werent rocking bleeding edge hardware. The worst part was, getting a patch was a lot harder at the time as internet speed was still trash tier.

Of course, I've since seen the light and have migrated back to being a primarily PC gamer (with heavy doses of Sony and Nintendo on the side), but given that my perspective was colored by the statements above, it was one helluva leap of faith dropping the cash to give PC gaming another shot. I imagine a lot of people have a similar situation.

 

[pa22word]

I really wonder how you got that from my post? :/

I'm agreeing with you, take the yes and move on man >.>

 

[Garibaldi]

From a totally personal point of view...

I gamed on PC for the best part of a decade, up to about 4 years ago. I loved building PCs and knowing I had the best parts I could afford and playing the best possible version of a title I could find.

But...

....I found I just wasn't playing most of the games I bought. I was too busy trying to eek out every last bit of pretty I could before the fps caused issues. Tweaking ini files, downloading and configuring countless mods. I remember the breaking point when I bought Dishonored day 1 and I don't think I made it past the opening in the first few days. I was too busy maxing it out the best I could.

While I enjoyed doing it, it became the game for me. Rather than playing the actual game, the game was how much I could push it. Skyrim with it's countless mods was another.

I moved home shortly after. Bought a new entertainment system and a PS4 and never looked back. I play games now.

Just my personal reasons.

 

[nOoblet16]

You continue to miss the mark by fixating on how pointless you think it is to game on PC if you can't have the best possible visual experience backed by the strongest available hardware.

Beyond that, what does it matter if something like Infinite Warfare has an improved engine over its predecessor? The improvements over Advanced Warfare, on my PC that played Advanced Warfare, will be exactly as apparent as IW's improvements on PS4 were over how AW looked on the same PS4. Why wouldn't they be? It's the same PC.

That's not how it works all the time though. Older hardware ends up being capable of doing less because of lack of driver support, game wise optimisation and architectural advantages. I'll give you an example the 780Ti was more powerful than the 970 but these days the 970 will always outperform the 780Ti. Why? Because the 970 has newer drivers, newer architecture and 780Ti hasn't received any optimisations on game by game basis for a while.

Consoles having custom hardware compared to stock hardware also means that at times you could come across a situation halfway through the console cycle where the developers are utilising techniques in their game engines that just wouldn't work well with older PC hardware even if that PC hardware is just as good if not slightly better in raw power. A similarly powered PC from around PS360 launch years that performed just as well if not better than the consoles around 2005-2007 would have a lot of trouble running a late gen 2011-2013 PS360 title (sometimes it won't even run it) simply because over time game engines adapted to build around the console hardware while the PC hardware from that time got completely outdated in terms of architecture as whatever advantages it had was not being utilised at all.


I'm not saying this will always happen but that it can and does happen and just because you have a hardware equivalent to console does not mean it'll remain the same until the end of the console cycle because of several factors.

 

[nkarafo]

Older games can be a hassle

So you'd rather not have the option to play old games at all?

I'll take the hassle if it means i have the chance to play them.

 

[pa22word]

You know what, I didn't even think about the settings side of things. I've tried to prime my dad about resolution, aliasing, AF... all that sort of stuff, but it's just a different world for so many people. Self discovery tools don't always work either. His 1060 equipped machine deemed that Oblivion should run at Medium. It also fired up to black screen in game, which I had to resolve.

Auto settings are generally always trash. If you want simple as possible best way is to go apply ultra > is playable? keep playing. is not playable? apply high. So on and so forth.

Manually tweaking is really for experienced users and not really necessary at all for 99% of people playing games.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Because it's a bit more complicated than just plugging in and pressing the power button like on consoles.

I'm a PC gamer myself and have been one for almost all my life but I don't kid myself into thinking that it's easy for everyone to get into. Some people are so computer illiterate that the simplest things will throw them off when it comes to PC gaming. Also in my PC gaming career I've had to troubleshoot things I doubt your average console player would ever want to with my PCs.

It's just what it is, some people will never get into PC gaming because it's either not for them or they feel it's too complicated. There's no need to be bothered by it or to try to change them. It's their personal preference and they aren't right or wrong for avoiding PC gaming.

 

[Savantcore]

This cuts to the heart of it for me. Frankly, I don't know the difference between a GPU, PSU and CPU.

When I bought my PS4 I had four options. 500GB, 1TB, 500GB pro, 1TB pro. Buying a PC I have a million options, and I don't know what my of them mean, and I don't think the benefits of PC gaming are worth the weeks it'd take to find out.

But I do know that these results I get if I try and buy a 'gaming PC' ready made are probably sold at a huge markup and I'd be throwing money away. But I have no idea who's a trusted seller and manufacturer in this space. Again, that's more research I have to do. To be honest, I do research every day for my dissertation. For my hobbies I just wanna plug and play.

Yep, exactly. I'm sure that once I do some research, get the PC built (by someone else), get it home and up and running, it will be great. Or I could just buy a PlayStation...

 

[nOoblet16]

The same way there are only 3 consoles since 2002?

He was talking about hardware combos, not how many variations exist within that combo.

 

[Renekton]

I genuinely can't remember the last new release that was actually complicated to get running at a basic console level.

Are you aware of Nier Automata whitescreen crashes in the PC performance threads?

 

[kyser73]

People complaining about having to upgrade PCs is hilarious now that Sony and MS expect you to dump hundreds of dollars "upgrading" your console every 2-3 years. Especially given how the upgrades are rather unsubstantial for the cost.

The actual cost of staying on top of console gaming these days is about $800 per gen. Add in the price of another console if you want basic functionality like online multiplayer, so more in the area of $1150-1200. Plus games.



My man.

Yeah, Sony totally 'expected' me to buy a Pro.

 

[ViolentP]

Ignorance is the primary reason.

 

[nkarafo]

That's not how it works all the time though. Older hardware ends up being capable of doing less because of lack of driver support, game wise optimisation and architectural advantages. I'll give you an example the 780Ti was more powerful than the 970 but these days the 970 will always outperform the 780Ti. Why? Because the 970 has newer drivers, newer architecture and 780Ti hasn't received any optimisations on game by game basis for a while.

Still though, this is a PC vs Console issue. The 780ti is a 2013 card that was released alongside the PS4. Today it still has enough left over power to brute force through these un-optimized drivers in order to still have better results than a PS4. At least the base PS4.

What i'm trying to say is that you got your money's worth. You could have this card for 3+ years and it would still be better than a PS4, correct?

 

[LinLeigh]

Because of Windows.

Recently I upgraded my laptop to Windows 10. But my resources kept hitting a 100% and my laptop would slow down to almost not being usable.

I had to deactivate the search function and it helped. Although searching isn't as easy.

I still have a major issue with my WiFi though. Sometimes I just lose the connection and I can't reconnect. I have to restart the laptop. I have googled and it seems I'm not the only one but so far none of the solutions have helped.

My grandfather called me the other day. All his desktop icons and start had disappeared. After some googling it turned out to be a know issue and after some trouble shooting and updating it worked again.

I think people on GAF underestimate how much time they spend on getting things to work or are very lucky. In my mind there is no doubt that PC still requires more effort than a console.

It feels like an argument between home cooking and take away. Ofc everyone can learn to cook and ofc there are short cuts to make it easier. And perhaps we can even argue that people should take the time for it. But the moment someone says it is as easy to home cook as it is to order food they lost the argument. It is not as easy and it won't be in the forseeable future.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Well congratulations on your magical PC.

The rest of us generally encounter issues every once in a while.

I would argue since last gen crashes on consoles arent really that uncommon anymore though.

 

[KJRS_1993]

My personal preference is that I like having all of my games, chats, friends lists, trophies etc all on one unified service rather than spread out across two or three of them (and I don't mind paying a certain amount a year to keep it that way). I also like having only one input device rather than having to keep numerous around me at all times.

In that sense, consoles definitely remain a lot simpler of use for me personally. Some people may completely disagree on it, you have to decide which works best for you personally.

Ignorance is the primary reason.

This post is some serious wank.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Ignorance is the primary reason.

This shit...

The primary reason is that no matter how much the PC crowd likes to claim to the contrary, it is never going to be as easy and as cheap as a console.

I'm amazed this thread pops up over and over and over.

 

[nkarafo]

I would argue since last gen crashes on consoles arent really that uncommon anymore though.

IMO, the biggest issues in console games aren't the crashes. For me it's something like Bloodborne's frame pacing issues. That's something you could fix on a PC.

 

[Elephant]

My brain relates gaming on the PC to work. I spend all day sat at a desk staring at a computer. So when it comes to gaming, being sat at a desk doesn't relax me.

Yes I can connect my TV to my PC and throw myself on my sofa with a controller, but if I'm playing online it's not a level playing field. If I am playing PC games, I don't particularly want to NOT use a mouse and keyboard, and feck those little lap keyboard thingys. Console is just simple and fits all my needs. Also all my friends play on console.

I have both, like gaming on both, but my PS4 gets way more mileage than my PC.

 

[Widge]

Auto settings are generally always trash. If you want simple as possible best way is to go apply ultra > is playable? keep playing. is not playable? apply high. So on and so forth.

Manually tweaking is really for experienced users and not really necessary at all for 99% of people playing games.

I know. I've tried to prime my dad with the basics of resolution and textures but I just think he is switched off to that. He's coming up for 80 so I can give him a break there. He only lives in Elder Scrolls games thankfully, so I've done it once and he should be good.

Just to clarify about my dad, I once found he had installed windows twice on his laptop, so I had to wipe and repair that fun situation for him.

 

[Ritzboof]

so many wires!!! i just want to start game and play

My brain relates gaming on the PC to work. I spend all day sat at a desk staring at a computer. So when it comes to gaming, being sat at a desk doesn't relax me.

Yes I can connect my TV to my PC and throw myself on my sofa with a controller, but if I'm playing online it's not a level playing field. If I am playing PC games, I don't particularly want to NOT use a mouse and keyboard, and feck those little lap keyboard thingys. Console is just simple and fits all my needs. Also all my friends play on console.

I have both, like gaming on both, but my PS4 gets way more mileage than my PC.

i watch caddicarus, and this was basically his reasoning for preferring consoles to PC for video games generally. i think its a p legit and respectable reason

 

[bennibop]

PC gaming is a hassle, messing with setting on the PC and game sliders just to maintain a decent fps is irritating. When you think you have it right only to get halfway through the game and fps drops like a rock (Rise of the tomb geothermal valley.) Poor ports also add to the issue recent games such as Dishonoured 2 + Arkham Knight.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

This shit...

The primary reason is that no matter how much the PC crowd likes to claim to the contrary, it is never going to be as easy and as cheap as a console.

I'm amazed this thread pops up over and over and over.

And on the other hand you have "bait" threads like "Well. I bought a 50.000$ PC but I rather play on my PS4. No game refused to run. At all. Every game had a whitescreen".

This is still an enthusiast forum and I am quite sure if you could get free games by doing some VPN stuff on consoles, a lot of people suddenly would research that. Man. During the PS3 era, GAF checked out how to console share to get free games.

 

[Arulan]

While it is understandably derived from the topic of the thread, I always find it odd that the goal post in these discussions is more often than not attempting to demonstrate that the PC can adhere to a set of console characteristics, that are supposedly desirable. A lot of these comparisons of characteristics follow a similar trend, the console offers a singular choice, while the PC offers numerous. The singular choice is viewed as convenient and hassle-free by one side, while extremely limiting and akin to child-locks by another. The discussion naturally then attempts to demonstrate that one of those numerous choices is as, or roughly as convenient and hassle-free as the former.

Personally, I do think consoles are slightly more convenient, but that difference is just that, slight. More importantly, that slight convenience comes at such a great cost to functionality and user-choice that I can't see the benefits to any but the strictest of the former school of thought. That is those who value singular choice, never having to configure or fix anything, even if it means it won't ever get fixed, and generally letting a corporation make decisions for them.

 

[Fredrik]

Because it is still more difficult than console gaming by just enough that I don't feel like dealing with the hassle.

Friends always say "Dude we can help you build one." Then I look up CPUs, GPUs, RAM etc and I just say "Fuck it." turn on my ps4 and move on down the street. I realize that it is possible to make PC gaming as comfortable as console gaming but the initial cost to entry is way higher than I'd like it to be.

That last thing is very true. I know you can build a console-level PC without breaking the bank but that's not why you enter PC gaming imo. I jumped into PC gaming because I was tired of seeing 30fps even in faster games, and Steam sales. The cost to get up to 100fps without scaling back the graphics to low is definitely high. Add a G-sync monitor into the mix and it'll be even worse. Go for a triple screen setup for racing bliss and you'll cry whenever you look at you bank account. Etc. :/
But PC gaming is not diffcult, hasn't been for me at least, pretty much plug and play from day 1 to 4 years later.

 

[ViolentP]

This post is some serious wank.

This shit...

The primary reason is that no matter how much the PC crowd likes to claim to the contrary, it is never going to be as easy and as cheap as a console.

I'm amazed this thread pops up over and over and over.

1. Ignorance is not an insult. Relax.
2. The comparison to a console is irrelevant when discussing the level of difficulty required when using a PC
3. Tinkering is for the most part, optional. Reserved mostly for those who want to finetune performance. For those that cannot be bothered with that, go auto-detect or go console.

 

[MilkyJoe]

And on the other hand you have "bait" threads like "Well. I bought a 50.000$ PC but I rather play on my PS4. No game refused to run. At all. Every game had a whitescreen".

This is still an enthusiast forum and I am quite sure if you could get free games by doing some VPN stuff on consoles, a lot of people suddenly would research that. Man. During the PS3 era, GAF checked out how to console share to get free games.

 

[Ertai]

Just open your general PC performance thread of any recent game and you should be able to understand where that feeling comes from

 

[MysteryM]

Because they want consoles to win.

Come on, I've owned pc's from the 386 days and in the early part of this was quite use to juggling conventional memory, and running QEMM etc. for gaming

Gaming on pc's has become simpler, but its no means plug and play as console gaming is. Just go look at the forza horizon pc performance gaf thread and the "I need to reformat my pc again" posts.

We have about 6 i5 pcs at home, but I don't game on any of them unfortunately and no its not because I want consoles to win.

 

[nkarafo]

That last thing is very true. I know you can build a console-level PC without breaking the bank but that's not why you enter PC gaming imo. I jumped into PC gaming because I was tired of seeing 30fps even in faster games, and Steam sales. The cost to get up to 100fps without scaling back the graphics to low is definitely high. Add a G-sync monitor into the mix and it'll be even worse. Go for a triple screen setup for racing bliss and you'll cry whenever you look at you bank account. Etc. :/

Well, you get what you pay for. Better things cost more, that applies to everything. Is anyone expecting a good gaming PC that delivers a better gaming experience than a console to cost as much as a console?

 

[Chairmanchuck]

What I mean is people say "Oh. I have to google to fix that issue.", but whenever somethings free here (like AC3 in the Chinese store) googling how to do that doesnt seem to be a problem.

Well, you get what you pay for. Better things cost more, that applies to everything. Is anyone expecting a good gaming PC that delivers a better gaming experience than a console to cost as much as a console?

A lot of people somehow do. Remember when the 970 launched and a lot of people built their first gaming PC or first gaming PC in years and they were 100% sure it will run everything at ULTRA for years?

 

[fireflame]

It <was harder for me at the beginning. I did not understand why my laptop could not run all games and what was the importance of gpu, cpu. I struggled to run some games that were compatible for older versions of Windows. With time, i learnt to search, solve issues to run games, run a game letting a single cpu core activated when it is necessary, edit cfg files,etc.

I invested in a gaming pc which cost more than a regular console, but compensated the investment by getting 99% of games only when they are on sale. This combinated with the free games deéals that happen, convinced me to sta y on pc, because i do not like the situation on consoles.

I slowly grow a taste for having some control on games i play, much more control than on a console game, which you cannot customize, patch with unofficial fixes, or mod. For example, being able to fix a quest bug weeks before the offical release of a patch allowed me to get the endings i wanted in fallout new vegas.
Wheni think about it, the pros exceed the cons. It is not on a console that i could get as many free good games, especially not with Nintendo.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

My brain relates gaming on the PC to work. I spend all day sat at a desk staring at a computer. So when it comes to gaming, being sat at a desk doesn't relax me.

Yes I can connect my TV to my PC and throw myself on my sofa with a controller, but if I'm playing online it's not a level playing field. If I am playing PC games, I don't particularly want to NOT use a mouse and keyboard, and feck those little lap keyboard thingys. Console is just simple and fits all my needs. Also all my friends play on console.

I have both, like gaming on both, but my PS4 gets way more mileage than my PC.

This is one big setback for me when it comes to online shooters. I only use controllers. I just don't find mouse keyboard comfortable. If I try to play an online shooter on PC I'm fucked. It just isn't balanced. Now I don't consider that a particularly huge loss since I don't play many multiplayer shooters anyway, but the few I would like to play I pretty much cant. Hurts my excitement for COD WW2 a fair bit. Don't pay for PS Plus anymore either so that option is out the window too. Sucks.

 

[Eumi]

Because every time I plug a controller into my PC it crashes and I have to reboot.

If you wanna pretend the people who have issues with PC's don't exist and are lying, sure, go for it.

 

[Arulan]

This is one big setback for me when it comes to online shooters. I only use controllers. I just don't find mouse keyboard comfortable. If I try to play an online shooter on PC I'm fucked. It just isn't balanced. Now I don't consider that a particularly huge loss since I don't play many multiplayer shooters anyway, but the few I would like to play I pretty much cant. Hurts my excitement for COD WW2 a fair bit. Don't pay for PS Plus anymore either so that option is out the window too. Sucks.

You could always use the Steam controller. It's not a mouse, but it's an intermediate between the terrible analog stick for aiming and the mouse. It's a great controller too.