Support NeoGAF

[Azelover]

I think I've seen this before in Nintendo's track record. Strangely, more often than not it actually pays off.

 

[Oblivion]

Just remember though gentlemen, the wii isn't meant to be a 5 year system. In 3 years we'll get Wii 2 and it will have 720p support , full backwards compatibility and the general visual capability equal to that of a low end 360 game instead of the current capability which is equal to roughly a middle tier xbox title.

Also within 18 months there'll be some sort of new wii, smaller, including component cables , perhaps something as simple as colored wii's.


I guess all I'm getting at is that the specs don't really matter. The wii was designed for profit first and using lower end hardware achieves that the easiest.

Er...no. Personally, I'd like that, but it'd be a pain in the ass for third parties.

 

[_bla_]

If it is true that the Wii CPU is just an extension of the GC CPU, then it really isnt much more than a G3 with an SIMD like feature. And we know how good the G3 class CPU was compared to a Pentium III classs CPU. More or less equal in most types of applications. So unless the broadway is a new G4 derivate of some sort, I will stand by my opinion that the Wii is a best marginally more powerful than the Xbox. Much more capable than Xbox would be something like a G4 class CPU + 9700 class GPU... Something we have yet to see here.

Well, you shouldn't forget that the Xbox CPU isn't a full Pentium III. It has only 256kb of Cache and according to developers memory bandwidth was always a problem the limiting the performance of the first XBox. The GC Gecko got 512kB Cache. The Broadway also got way faster memory than XBox, with fast 1T-SRAM and GDDR3. I agree that with these specs it isn't much more capable than XBox, but that it is a little bit more capable should be pretty clear.

 

[Lobster]

Nice. I was hoping Xbox level..but what do ya know..Its actually better.

 

[Crow]

Just remember though gentlemen, the wii isn't meant to be a 5 year system. In 3 years we'll get Wii 2 and it will have 720p support , full backwards compatibility and the general visual capability equal to that of a low end 360 game instead of the current capability which is equal to roughly a middle tier xbox title.

Also within 18 months there'll be some sort of new wii, smaller, including component cables , perhaps something as simple as colored wii's.


I guess all I'm getting at is that the specs don't really matter. The wii was designed for profit first and using lower end hardware achieves that the easiest.

First time I've heard of this. This speculation or is there a source?

 

[Andonuts]

That's it, I'm returning mine. 755 Mhz, what the hell nintendo this isn't 1997, get with the times.

 

[Graphics Horse]

First time I've heard of this. This speculation or is there a source?

I've been speculating this for a while, without evidence, and then Reggie says this at launch:

"Tough choices about not including a DVD player at the start, tough choices about not including high-definition capability at the start. That's because we wanted a mass-market price, and we believe the market will validate those decisions come launch day on this Sunday,"

source: http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/news/16048304.htm

 

[rdellw]

Somebody open their Wii and insert a GC disk to see how it takes them.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

First time I've heard of this. This speculation or is there a source?

Yeah the source is his asshole.

 

[frogg609]

Guess I'm not having as much fun with mine because of the slow processor. :lol

 

[EternalDarko]

For comparison, this is what the GC's chips are like.

 

[LCGeek]

Someone should've called the specs BS. Gecko L1 was 64/32 the OP's specs say 32/32 on top of that I know L2 for broadway is 512 and the L1 is 128. Whoever said the TEV was a bitch to do stuff for is off. ERP at B3d has explained the differences along with pros and cons. Shaders on the GC/Wii architecture suck compared to DX in general because it can't do vertex and because there is no HLSL which means developers have to write their own language before they can even begin making effects.

 

[Mr. TV Goggles]

IGN have confirmed at least the clockspeeds and amount of RAM, and honestly that's all that matters. For me anyway.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Shaders on the GC/Wii architecture suck compared to DX in general because it can't do vertex and because there is no HLSL which means developers have to write their own language before they can even begin making effects.

TEV can do vertex. That's how they got fur shading in Star Fox Adventures.

 

[Shompola]

Well, you shouldn't forget that the Xbox CPU isn't a full Pentium III. It has only 256kb of Cache and according to developers memory bandwidth was always a problem the limiting the performance of the first XBox. The GC Gecko got 512kB Cache. The Broadway also got way faster memory than XBox, with fast 1T-SRAM and GDDR3. I agree that with these specs it isn't much more capable than XBox, but that it is a little bit more capable should be pretty clear.

Agreed.


hatorade, while I acknowledge that the TEV is more than people give it credit for.. I dont think it was better than the Xbox implementation of said shaders... Especially considering how the shader is setup in TEV compared to on the Xbox... It looks better on paper.. but in real world circumstances, that kind of setup is not very benefitical compared to on Xbox IMO.

 

[HocusPocus]

If it is true that the Wii CPU is just an extension of the GC CPU, then it really isnt much more than a G3 with an SIMD like feature. And we know how good the G3 class CPU was compared to a Pentium III classs CPU. More or less equal in most types of applications. So unless the broadway is a new G4 derivate of some sort, I will stand by my opinion that the Wii is a best marginally more powerful than the Xbox. Much more capable than Xbox would be something like a G4 class CPU + 9700 class GPU... Something we have yet to see here.

The specs have always been dissapointing. I feel like many who just think that Nintendo should have a more powerful system, and two years down the road when most games look as good as MGS4 on the PS3 and GoW on the Xbox 360 then Nintendo might have a problem competing.

 

[RiZ III]

Branch prediction ftw.

 

[Luckyman]

Considering this specs on topic true.

Wii CPU > Xbox CPU
Wii GPU > Xbox GPU
Wii Memory > Xbox Memory

It's undeniable that Wii > Xbox.

But, if your point is "omg! Wii SUX0X, TEH SHIT GRAPHIX" based on shit screenshoots released so far, i lament.

Honestly..

Xbox GPU >> Wii GPU.

 

[_bla_]

Honestly..

Xbox GPU >> Wii GPU.

Well, even if Wii GPU really is just GC GPU at 1.5X Clock, then it should still offer higher performance, Xbox is limited by memory performance. It is able to do a lot of fancy stuff but due to lack of memory bandwidth it doesn't perform anywhere near its peak performance in real games. So Xbox GPU features > Wii GPU features while Wii GPU fillrate > Xbox GPU fillrate.

Wii GPU got a EDRAM framebuffer and a big texture cache. Both help a lot against running into bandwith problems. Some launch titles already show some fillrate heavy effects.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

Well, even if Wii GPU really is just GC GPU at 1.5X Clock, then it should still offer higher performance, Xbox is limited by memory performance. It is able to do a lot of fancy stuff but due to lack of memory bandwidth it doesn't perform anywhere near its peak performance in real games. So Xbox GPU features > Wii GPU features while Wii GPU fillrate > Xbox GPU fillrate.

Wii GPU got a EDRAM framebuffer and a big texture cache. Both help a lot against running into bandwith problems. Some launch titles already show some fillrate heavy effects.

You know, the sad thing is that Nintendo have even allowed people to have this discussion.

Honestly its hard to believe just how much they skimped.

 

[Fatghost]

I really, really, really hope Wii does not win this gen.


We'd never get decent hardware ever again.

 

[Jacobi]

"If you turn on the Levorution, you'll say wow"

 

[Mr. TV Goggles]

"If you turn on the Levorution, you'll say wow"

I definately said wow. Just not in the way Nintendo wanted. :lol :lol

 

[The Bookerman]

The wii CPU is made at a IBM plant in Quebec, Bromont to be precise.

I learned this in an interview with the general manager of that place.

 

[Sweedishrodeo]

You know, the sad thing is that Nintendo have even allowed people to have this discussion.

Honestly its hard to believe just how much they skimped.

they didnt skimp! they said time and time again graphical prowess was not the goal. SUPRISE the system isnt nearly as powerful as ps3 and 360. caring about the specs at this point is worthless. its here. played wii sports a few mins ago. looks fine. doesnt look great, but looks good, and thats all i was expecting.

 

[Raistlin]

Considering this specs on topic true.

Wii CPU > Xbox CPU
Wii GPU > Xbox GPU
Wii Memory > Xbox Memory

It's undeniable that Wii > Xbox.

I'm not sure it is clear that the GPU is better, is it?

Obviously it is faster, but it doesn't have all the shaders, etc ... so I don't think one can simply compare clock-rate. For some things, it will produce better graphics ... but it is possible that for some things, it will have difficulty pulling off the same effects.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I hear there is some GPU feature the Gamecube had (TEV or something) that was never used.

Wouldn't have made sense not to use it for an entire gen- especially considering it was in third place the entire time.

 

[wsippel]

I'm not sure it is clear that the GPU is better, is it?

Obviously it is faster, but it doesn't have all the shaders, etc ... so I don't think one can simply compare clock-rate. For some things, it will produce better graphics ... but it is possible that for some things, it will have difficulty pulling off the same effects.

Nintendo doesn't use shaders, they use a different, propiertary technology called TEV, which does basically the same thing in a different way. There are things you can do with shaders that aren't possible with TEVs and vice versa. The main problems with Flippers TEV unit was memory performance and the lack of a few operations, but I'd think that at least the first problem should be fixed with Hollywood.

 

[Fatghost]

they didnt skimp! they said time and time again graphical prowess was not the goal. SUPRISE the system isnt nearly as powerful as ps3 and 360. caring about the specs at this point is worthless. its here. played wii sports a few mins ago. looks fine. doesnt look great, but looks good, and thats all i was expecting.

They skimped.


They could, for the 250 price point, easily produced a much more powerful machine. It's one thing to say it wouldn't be at the X360/PS3 class, but it's another thing to produce a machine that is really only barely more powerful than the machine it replaces, for 2 and a half times the cost.

 

[TheIkariWarrior]

Gekko in Gamecube already had twice the L2 cache that the Xbox1 CPU had, which made Gekko better, in many ways, dispite the lower clockspeed. the architecture was better overall so that made up most if not all the difference in clockspeed. although in some ways i am sure the Xbox1 CPU had *some* advantage over the Gekko, but most things were in Gekko's favor. Yet now, with the Gekko-based Broadway in Wii, tweaked and running ~50% faster (not counting any possible architectural upgrades) it well surpasses the Xbox1 CPU.



we still don't know jack about the Hollywood GPU though, other than maybe it's clockspeed which means little *if* its got some architectural upgrades over Flipper, but clockspeed comparison (162 MHz vs ~240 MHz) would mean alot if Hollywood was pretty much identical to Flipper.

for Wii2, lets say Nintendo goes with a moderately powerful GPU for the 2011-2012 timeframe, even if not state-of-the-art, then Wii2 would *seem* like a huge leap beyond Wii.