Fourth Storm
Member
It's got a tesselation unit. Probably the same one as all the R700 series. But possibly modified or upgraded. We just don't know how useful it will end up being in the end.
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Wii U clock speeds are found by marcan
- Thread starter Pooya
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It's got a tesselation unit. Probably the same one as all the R700 series. But possibly modified or upgraded. We just don't know how useful it will end up being in the end.
frankie_baby
Member
It probably does
frankie_baby
Member
As i have now said twice, my opinion, be it right or wrong.
NFS: MW / Splinter Cell: Black List / Tomb Raider have been listed by retailers but then again so was MGS4 for the 360 last week.
You have to look at it from a business perspective only and ignore your allegiances completely.
Publisher asks dev to make game, dev says ok what platforms do you want it on, publisher looks at console market and previously seen only two HD consoles capable of running the code so answers - PS360.
Now there is a third console, more than capable of running any multi platform PS360 code, so in a great many cases they will make a version for WiiU, all-be it later.
A game like Dishonored for instance which has now price dropped in the UK could be totally reinvigorated sales wise in the second quarter of 2013 for WiiU. If the console has an instal base of over 5 million by March then i see no reason why any publisher would wish to ignore a possible 1 million additional sales to an 'old' PS360 game that is finished it's main development and only needs ported across.
Of course next gen will be different as the developers will have to put in a lot of extra work to make a 'down ported' version of the games to run on WiiU but until those systems are out, WiiU is a very attractive platform for 90% of third party publishers imho.
Its worth pointing out we know straight right is porting a (likely western) big square enix game to Wii u, so were looking really at either sleeping dogs, hitman or tomb raider
I still stand by my prediction that they'll all bomb. Who is the target audience for a late port Wii U multiplat? One, you have to be excited enough about HD multiplats to spend 350$ on a Wii U. Two, you have to have spent the past years not being excited enough about HD multiplats to spend 250$ on something else.
IOW you didn't care to buy a cheaper system that already has these games; and the games themselves are cheaper to boot. But now you suddenly start caring, just in time with the Wii U launch. That is exactly the target audience. And it hinges on enough internal contradiction of logic that it can't possibly be big enough to make a difference.
Fredrik
Member
Just as a reminder. Some third party ports are worse, but some are better, at least compared to PS3, and this is at launch, it'll get better over time. And first party games might not look like Uncharted but they run oh sooo beautifully. The priority of framerate over details is really really nice and refreshing in an era when you usually can't even expect 30 fps, especially without tearing. Check out third party games like Nano Assault Neo and Trine 2 too and you'll see the best you can get anywhere right now. ZombiU is worth mentioning too, it's not technically impressive graphically, but the atmosphere is amazing, the GamePad usage is quite genious and it all plays a bit like Demon's Souls, in other words perfectly. So does it all matter that much? I mean I don't mind some negativism, but you should be careful and not lose sight of realityThe reality is that right now on the wiiU, you get 3rd party ports that perform worse than on ps360, and 1st party games that look no better than what you get elsewhere. I don't mind a bit of optimism, but you should be careful and not lose sight of reality
Just as a reminder. Some third party ports are worse, but some are better, at least compared to PS3, and this is at launch, it'll get better over time. And first party games might not look like Uncharted but they run oh sooo beautifully. The priority of framerate over details is really really nice and resfreshing in an era when you usually can't even expect 30 fps, especially without tearing. Check out third party games like Nano Assault Neo and Trine 2 too and you'll see the best you can get anywhere right now. ZombiU is worth mentioning too, it's not technically impressive graphically, but the atmosphere is amazing, the GamePad usage is quite genious and it all plays a bit like Demon's Souls, in other words perfectly. So does it all matter that much? I mean I don't mind some negativism, but you should be careful and not lose sight of reality
But his logic still holds- who wants Trine 2 this late for a more expensive machine? Not even going to address the first party stuff you mentioned or the framerate note (the irony), because it descends into fanboy land.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
We don't know this.
I do, for starters not everyone plays games when they come out, second my PC sucks and this seems to be the definitive version. Some people need to realize that not everyone thinks the same way.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Absolutely. This was the problem with the third party ports at launch.
I agree that not everyone thinks the same. But, you can get it on a console that is 100 dollars cheaper. And true, not everyone buys games when they come out, but for retail games, see Batman, they are 60 on the WiiU versus faaar cheaper on other consoles. Its just bad value at the moment, unless the ports start offering far more content.
shinra-bansho
Member
You're not really thinking about it from a business perspective though. And your example, exemplifies this.
A game like Dishonored isn't going to have it's sales reinvigorated by a late Wii U port. And both the absolute number of sales you're suggesting for a late port and your hypothetical attach rate of 0.2 for a late port is ridiculous.
Further to that, demographic considerations come into play. An installed base is irrelevant without an audience within it. If the installed base is largely composed of expanded audience demographics, there may be no sizeable audience for certain third-party titles.
There's an opportunity-cost involved in devoting time, money and human resources into development. Resources committed to a late port, that may not be justified by any ROI, also take away potential resources for DLC or further new game development.
Adding to that, what we now know about the Wii U CPU may suggest that porting isn't as trivial as Nintendo espoused.
This logic would make sense if you bought the console for Trine 2, which I doubt anyone did. Factoring in the price of the hardware doesn't really make sense.
Agreed on Batman though.
Wrestlemania
Banned
I bought it. Didn't play the other versions, both the touch screen and pointer controls suit it better than dual analogue controls as well.
I'll do the same for any other multiplatform ports, late or otherwise, which benefit from the gamepad or Wii remote in someway.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
The PS and 360 can't even share most code. and its obvious the Wii U and other two have different philosophies, as the ps3 and 360 do.
It's not about buying the console for one specific game. But if the Wii U versions are the first ones you consider interesting, it almost directly follows that you made it through the last generation with just a Wii, or no console at all. Which proves that you didn't care all that much about them in the first place.
Figuring out a CPU architecture by running software on it is like figuring out a puzzle on feel alone. You cant just look inside with a magic peice of software and have every inch of the hardware design revealed to you. From his comments we can take it that the CPU is compatible with Broadway, it acts in a very similar way. That does not mean, as some have chosen to assume, that each core is overclocked Broadway with more cache.
I dont want to nitpick, but I just have to say that I believe Nintendos own engineers will certainly know both Broadway and Espresso better than Marcan
frankie_baby
Member
Figuring out a CPU architecture by running software on it is like figuring out a puzzle on feel alone. You cant just look inside with a magic peice of software and have every inch of the hardware design revealed to you. From his comments we can take it that the CPU is compatible with Broadway, it acts in a very similar way. That does not mean, as some have chosen to assume, that each core is overclocked Broadway with more cache.
I dont want to nitpick, but I just have to say that I believe Nintendos own engineers will certainly know both Broadway and Espresso better than Marcan
I've been thinking the code he's running must (I assume ) be running in Wii mode, could that be effecting the results hes getting?
Course main memory is used by GPU. But theres a reason why it primarily renders to high speed low latency internal memory as youll know. Sure youll agree that the idea such extra shader power couldnt be used due to main memory bandwidth is a silly one.
I doubt it, CPU wouldnt run at 1.24ghz in Wii mode. Nothing wrong with Marcan info, just shouldnt take the CPU responding similar to Broadway as "its Broadway overclocked with more cache".
Nintendo already talked about how they found ways to make the new parts for WiiU compatible with Wii parts.
The company is completely dead. Eggebrecht (spelling?) and some of the other tech guys are now making iOS games under the TouchFactor brand. Disney should give them a studio to make Star Wars games to bring them back.
soulassssns
Banned
How so???
Um... what? You do realize that not buying something the second it launches doesn't mean you don't find it interesting right?
I didn't buy Trine 2 or Arkham City, because I have a huge backlog and very little time to play. Eventually I was content with waiting to see if Arkham and Trine 2 would turn out good on Wii U. Arkham doesn't seem worth the extra money and is on Plus right now so I won't get it, but Trine 2 is a great buy on Wii U, I have some time right now and want some cool games to play on it so I'm getting it.
I have a PS3, a 360 and a Wii, play all of them and was interested in those games, like me there are probably a lot of other people. Seriously, you make some wild assumptions.
frankie_baby
Member
Yeah the clockspeed does make me doubt my own hypothesis but even if the clockspeed is real (which i dont really doubt) perhaps his code shows the chip behaving as a 750cl (broadway) when there may be more to it
Has anyone got any technical opinions on die size of broadway compared to Espresso? Im no expert but to me maybe it seems a little large for 3 shrunk down broadways
You can believe what you want, but I never claimed to be an expert or have an insider. All I know is from what I've read and have been told, the GPU does not have 2011 feature set or is pushing 700GFLOPs.
Well if it's not just a menu or the same image mirrored from the TV, it would all depend what's being pushed to the pad to determine how much resources it's taking up.
That's a bit vague for me. Some AMD DX10.1 GPUs had DX11 features such as compute capability. That doesn't mean they have DX11 feature set or the hardware was as capable. The tesselator unit could have been upgraded and that would still fall within the DX10.1+ comments. Without specific details, I'm inclined to believe it's closer to DX10.1 performance and feature-set than DX11 or DX11.1.
AMD GPUs had tesselator units in those times. They even included tesselator units for their early DX10 GPUs and before that toyed with the technology which they called TruForm at the time.
The ports really should end now. If a game can't and won't be release day and date with the other versions it shouldn't be done. Same day multiplatform releases and exclusives from now on. . If they must continue though there really should be extra content and not a straight port. They must run well too. Launch day games can use the "launch day" excuse. That's not going to be acceptable come March or April and certainly not as late as the beginning of summer.
The, what I like to call, the reputation phase will start next year. Perhaps early if Wonderful 101, Pikmin 3, and Monster Hunter end up being great. Where post-launch games and their publishers start being judged. Where markets get established. It's going to mean the difference between Wii U owners (either only or with PS3/360s and possibly looking forward to the PS4/next Xbox) retreating to primarily buying Nintendo published or endorsed games or being open to buying a lot of 3rd party games in addition the Nintendo published/endorsed games. The focus and money should be on upcoming games and not new ports and trying to make quick amounts of money. The long term should be what's looked at. Many publishers/developers regreted not giving the Wii more attention or wish they could have. No is the time to not have that repeated.
Nintendo gamers and those that lean in that direction can be some of the most loyal customers. Why not put in the effort to get their money and make a great impression (which includes trying to actively sell the game to Nintendo hardware owners and not pretend it doesn't exist!!)? Customers aren't going to care what the specs are. All they will know and care about is that the Wii U isn't the Wii in terms of power and will expect the same treatment as the owners of the other consoles on the market. They'll see Nintendo's games and expect at least that standard to be reached or attempted.
Apophis2036
Banned
What about the potential Wii only owners upgrading to WiiU ?, the likes of ME3, Darksiders 2, Arkham City, Ninja Gaiden 3, Assassin's Creed 3, Tekken Tag 2, Black Ops 2, Fifa 13, Madden 13, Sonic Racing 2 ect, will be of great interest to those customers just like the late 2012 PS360 games will be of great interest to those same customers in mid to late 2013 when they are ported to WiiU.
Not every gamer has a PS3 or 360 this generation, i would bet at least half of the Wii owners didn't (a potential 50 million market cannot and shouldn't be ignored).
If you bought a wii and did not care enough to get a ps360 for their HD multiplatform games, my guess is you bought a wiiU for the same reason: nintendo games.
lwilliams3
Member
Funny that you mentioned Trine 2. Gamers seem to be buying the game, and the the company appears to be happy with the sales so far.
That is another thing though: ports to the Wii U may not cost as much as it was to make completely new games for the Wii, so games may not have to sell too much to get profit from it. That was the ironic thing about the Wii: The original idea was it to reduce development cost for third-party companies, but it was so different in control scheme and architecture from the other systems that it cost time and development to rewrite the game for it.
For the Wii U, usually very small teams are responsible for porting the game to it, so R&D cost are likely not that high. There has been several porting issues, but that should improve as devs get more experience with the final hardware.
Fredrik
Member
Isn't that usually the case on all platforms though?
Don't know about you but...
I bought a DC to play Sega games, plus playing the first wave of games in a new generation.
i bought an Xbox to play MS/Rare games.
i bought a PS2 to play Sony's first party stuff, plus Tekken, Ridge Racer, MGS and FF (which essentially was essentially like first party exclusives back then)
i bought a GC to play Nintendo games.
i bought a 360 to play MS/Rare games, plus playing the first wave of games in a new generation.
i bought a PS3 to play Sony first party plus MGS/FF (and a bunch of games which was essentially PS exclusives back then but turned multi format during the generation)
i bought a Wii to play Nintendo games, plus playing in a new way.
And finally, I bought a WiiU to play Nintendo games, plus playing in a new way, plus playing the first wave of games in a new generation.
And I'll buy a PS4 to play Sony games and MGS (FF, Tekken, RR, etc is pretty much multi format now)
And I'll buy a X720 to play MS games (Rare is pretty much dead)
Anything else is a bonus imo
I get what you're saying, but I would still buy a ps360 even if they'd stop publishing exclusives.
test_account
XP-39C²
Sure, but since Miyamoto already said in 2008 that the controls worked fine already at that stage, and the game was up and running then (although most likely a very early build, the developement might have started even before that. But who knows how much work that was done on it before it moved to WiiU. As long as the final game looks good, it probably wouldnt matter much that it started out on the Wii, regardless of how far the developement came on the Wii version
Neff
Member
Judging from the extremely competitive performance of (some of) the games released already, and the hardware analysis from rational, tech-savvy people, and the fact that Nintendo knows what it's doing, it's probably safe to say not.
depends entirely on your expectations of the system.
I thought I'd include this link here since this guy from Digitally Downloaded seems to know what he's talking about in terms of how Wii U's architecture would fundamentally work with its GGPU/ MCM. The apparently low CPU may not be quite as bad as it seems.
http://www.digitallydownloaded.net/2012/12/breaking-wii-u-down-what-each-bit-means.html
http://www.digitallydownloaded.net/2012/12/breaking-wii-u-down-what-each-bit-means.html
lightchris
Member
This article is quite superficial and sometimes downright wrong. Some parts are explained well enough and I don't want to generally badmouth the author who most likely had only good intentions. But it's just too apparent that he doesn't really know what he's talking about when it goes a little bit above the basics.
Saint Gregory
Member
Has Marcan or anyone else been able to confirm that the three cores of the CPU are identical? I remember there being some speculation about that but I can't remember if that was based on anything concrete.
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