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[MDX]

and how would this be possible in this day and age of patent/legal wars?

Well I can imagine:
Sony or MS could have set up a "neutral" game studio just to get their hands on their competitor's hardware. There is probably a good reason why Nintendo does not give each developer the same unit. Probably the most trusted ones get the latest kits. Others might get old kits just to throw the competition off.

And that brings me to another thought. What if the WiiU really is a beast, in the same ballpark of Durango and PS4. But developer bias cant see past the reality of this fact. What I mean is, I can see a studio favoring a particular company, getting everything out of their machine, while with the others, they simply half-ass it and finds excuses to claim that the competition's machine has bottlenecks, or various other issues that hamper similar or better results.

 

[Linkhero1]

I know Nintendo's is at the sart of the second day. Microsoft and Sony are on the first day. Any other big studios showing on the first day?

EA and Ubisoft are going to have conferences first day, I believe. I do think they're going to show whatever games they have in development for the Wii U, so they don't have to waste Nintendo's E3 conference time showing their titles.

 

[ColdBlooder]

And that brings me to another thought. What if the WiiU really is a beast, in the same ballpark of Durango and PS4. But developer bias cant see past the reality of this fact. What I mean is, I can see a studio favoring a particular company, getting everything out of their machine, while with the others, they simply half-ass it and finds excuses to claim that the competition's machine has bottlenecks, or various other issues that hamper similar or better results.

The first indicator that speaks for a moderate spec sheet instead of a hardware beast is the price.

Second thing that will propably the best indicator is Nintendos 1st and 2nd party offering. I don´t trust ANY 3rd party to get anything significantly better than current gen out of the box.

And last but not least, Nintendo has the power to make great looking games weaker hardware. Mario Galaxy 1/2 as a prime example.

 

[MDX]

EA and Ubisoft are going to have conferences first day, I believe. I do think they're going to show whatever games they have in development for the Wii U, so they don't have to waste Nintendo's E3 conference time showing their titles.

I seriously doubt it. I think Nintendo initially wants to control how the tablet controller gets presented for each big game that it will be on. I can imagine Nintendo investing with third parties on their marketing to not include WiiU versions of games with the current gen. The WiiU must stand out as much as possible. It must take distance from the 360 and PS3 graphically, how the controls work, and online.

 

[Mithos]

I was talking about CoD and people who play CoD games in general. I don't really play anything else online.

I don't play my FPS'es online either only the singleplayer campaigns ;p

 

[HylianTom]

And that brings me to another thought. What if the WiiU really is a beast, in the same ballpark of Durango and PS4. But developer bias cant see past the reality of this fact. What I mean is, I can see a studio favoring a particular company, getting everything out of their machine, while with the others, they simply half-ass it and finds excuses to claim that the competition's machine has bottlenecks, or various other issues that hamper similar or better results.

If one company tries that half-assing stunt with Nintendo's hardware, they run the risk of another company outshining them in their own graphical effort. Either that, or they run the risk of being called-out as bullshitters.

But really.. nothing would surprise me at this point - except for the Wii U being a beast in the same fold as the Durango.

 

[Linkhero1]

I seriously doubt it. I think Nintendo initially wants to control how the tablet controller gets presented for each big game that it will be on. I can imagine Nintendo investing with third parties on their marketing to not include WiiU versions of games with the current gen. The WiiU must stand out as much as possible. It must take distance from the 360 and PS3 graphically, how the controls work, and online.

Oh I believe that too. I don't see EA or Ubisoft demoing the Wii U tablet at all. I just expect them to finally announce titles for it and show trailers.

I don't play my FPS'es online either only the singleplayer campaigns ;p

You have me beat. I should have said most.

 

[snesfreak]

So what happens when E3 comes and goes, and there still isn't much announced software wise. Do we still cling to a mystery NDA?

We wake up and realize E3 hasn't happened yet and it was just a bad dream?

 

[Penguin]

We're all still sure there's an NDA. Deny it if you want, but it exists.

It's not mysterious if it's really there. I think if there was no NDA in place that we would have seen some announcements for the Wii U unless third party don't want their games on the platform.
.

I think I phrased it wrongly.
I meant that people aren't clinging to a mysterious NDA.. in the sense.. that we know it exists. So it isn't mysterious nor something people are clinging to.
Not that I didn't believe it.

 

[Kamek]

And that brings me to another thought. What if the WiiU really is a beast, in the same ballpark of Durango and PS4. But developer bias cant see past the reality of this fact. What I mean is, I can see a studio favoring a particular company, getting everything out of their machine, while with the others, they simply half-ass it and finds excuses to claim that the competition's machine has bottlenecks, or various other issues that hamper similar or better results.

As much as I want this to be true, do you really think this espionage arms-race esque scenario is plausible? Nintendo throwing off untrusted developers who will leak specs to Sony with old dev kits? Neutral studios being set up? Has this happened before?

 

[UncleSporky]

And last but not least, Nintendo has the power to make great looking games weaker hardware. Mario Galaxy 1/2 as a prime example.

Emulators like Dolphin show that you don't necessarily need beastly hardware to make Nintendo software look (even more) amazing. The primary thing it does to beautify these games is to render them at higher resolutions, and WiiU being 1080p is largely all that will be needed to make their games shine.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Thanks, JJConrad. I have to wonder why so many people misread that comment. If I only meant Wii, I wouldn't say "Nintendo platforms".

Hah, most of us just read the first two responses to your post and ran with that. whoops!

So why are you all so sure RE6 is not hitting Wii U? Something happen?

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/04/
"Unfortunately, RE6 will not be available at this time on the Wii U. Right now we're concentrating on the PlayStation 3 version, 360 version and the PC version of the game."

Some have taken this quote to mean "We can't reveal that we're working on it at this time", that they're being restricted by NDAs. I wouldn't make that assumption, though.

 

[EloquentM]

I had a dream last night about the next Zelda being teased at e3 and It was glorious. If it becomes a reality I might need resuscitation.

 

[MDX]

The first indicator that speaks for a moderate spec sheet instead of a hardware beast is the price.

Thats true, but I recall the base model of the 360 was 299 and the Wii was 249.
At face value one would say that they were pretty close spec wise and far from the PS3 at 599. So we cant count out price that is set for demand, and/or subsidizing the hardware.

Second thing that will propably the best indicator is Nintendos 1st and 2nd party offering. I don´t trust ANY 3rd party to get anything significantly better than current gen out of the box.

That goes without saying. However, for some reason fanboys do not take Nintendo's offering as indicators of the console's true power. And this could be the cartoony nature of many of their games. Of course, we have not seen Nintendo games in HD, and we dont know what direction Nintendo will go to capture the CoD market

 

[lednerg]

If we're going to be able to run games from USB drives, then wouldn't that be a bit of a problem for titles that rely on data constantly being streamed into the levels like GTA? Even the best USB 2.0 drives are just under the speed of the 360's DVD drive, after all. While that might be okay for 360 games, when you increase the complexity of the levels and graphics, I'd think it would start to get in the way.

I'm wondering if they have some kind of big cache solution in place. I don't know if that means having to install games onto the internal SDD drive or what, but there has to be some way to get around this obvious speed issue. Could that be something the large amount of system RAM would be handling? Does anyone have any ideas how this is going to work?

RE: USB 3.0 - Even if Wii U supported USB 3.0, people by and large are still going to be using USB 2.0 drives, especially for the first couple years. Developers will have to assume the user has a USB 2.0 drive.

 

[HylianTom]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/04/
"Unfortunately, RE6 will not be available at this time on the Wii U. Right now we're concentrating on the PlayStation 3 version, 360 version and the PC version of the game."

Yup. That tells me all I need to know.

After the past decade, I'm done trusting in or hoping for the "headliner" titles from third parties. To me, anything of this nature from a third-party that actually does end-up on a Nintendo system is a pleasant surprise and/or a bonus.

 

[ReyVGM]

And that brings me to another thought. What if the WiiU really is a beast, in the same ballpark of Durango and PS4. But developer bias cant see past the reality of this fact. What I mean is, I can see a studio favoring a particular company, getting everything out of their machine, while with the others, they simply half-ass it and finds excuses to claim that the competition's machine has bottlenecks, or various other issues that hamper similar or better results.

That already happened with the Gamecube...

 

[EloquentM]

If we're going to be able to run games from USB drives, then wouldn't that be a bit of a problem for titles that rely on data constantly being streamed into the levels like GTA? Even the best USB 2.0 drives are just under the speed of the 360's DVD drive, after all. While that might be okay for 360 games, when you increase the complexity of the levels and graphics, I'd think it would start to get in the way.

I'm wondering if they have some kind of big cache solution in place. I don't know if that means having to install games onto the internal SDD drive or what, but there has to be some way to get around this obvious speed issue. Could that be something the large amount of system RAM would be handling? Does anyone have any ideas how this is going to work?

RE: USB 3.0 - Even if Wii U supported USB 3.0, people by and large are still going to be using USB 2.0 drives, especially for the first couple years. Developers will have to assume the user has a USB 2.0 drive.

That's wrong, I believe.

 

[Linkhero1]

If we're going to be able to run games from USB drives, then wouldn't that be a bit of a problem for titles that rely on data constantly being streamed into the levels like GTA? Even the best USB 2.0 drives are just under the speed of the 360's DVD drive, after all. While that might be okay for 360 games, when you increase the complexity of the levels and graphics, I'd think it would start to get in the way.

I'm wondering if they have some kind of big cache solution in place. I don't know if that means having to install games onto the internal SDD drive or what, but there has to be some way to get around this obvious speed issue. Could that be something the large amount of system RAM would be handling? Does anyone have any ideas how this is going to work?

RE: USB 3.0 - Even if Wii U supported USB 3.0, people by and large are still going to be using USB 2.0 drives, especially for the first couple years. Developers will have to assume the user has a USB 2.0 drive.

I find it a bit problematic as well. I think the best course of action would be to brand USB 3.0 HDDs with the Wii U logo.

 

[Plinko]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/04/
"Unfortunately, RE6 will not be available at this time on the Wii U. Right now we're concentrating on the PlayStation 3 version, 360 version and the PC version of the game."

Some have taken this quote to mean "We can't reveal that we're working on it at this time", that they're being restricted by NDAs. I wouldn't make that assumption, though.

Any time I read "at this time" from a developer about an unreleased console, I instantly believe they're under NDA.

Not sure what the reason is for all the negativity about this quote.

 

[Linkhero1]

That's wrong, I believe.

You're right. Xbox 360 reads at around 15 MB/s and I believe USB 2.0 is around 50-60 MB/s. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Well I can imagine:
Sony or MS could have set up a "neutral" game studio just to get their hands on their competitor's hardware. There is probably a good reason why Nintendo does not give each developer the same unit. Probably the most trusted ones get the latest kits. Others might get old kits just to throw the competition off.

And that brings me to another thought. What if the WiiU really is a beast, in the same ballpark of Durango and PS4. But developer bias cant see past the reality of this fact. What I mean is, I can see a studio favoring a particular company, getting everything out of their machine, while with the others, they simply half-ass it and finds excuses to claim that the competition's machine has bottlenecks, or various other issues that hamper similar or better results.

Sounds very expensive just to all the info on WiiU

Nintendo owns a bit of Silicon Knights, I'm sure MS owns part of a few 3rd parties out there as well but does not mean they share devkit info so easily when NDAs are signed with these things

 

[Fredrik]

I seriously doubt it. I think Nintendo initially wants to control how the tablet controller gets presented for each big game that it will be on. I can imagine Nintendo investing with third parties on their marketing to not include WiiU versions of games with the current gen. The WiiU must stand out as much as possible. It must take distance from the 360 and PS3 graphically, how the controls work, and online.

Question is, what happens if Sony and/or MS shows a tech demo of an uncoming controller of their own with a touch screen of some sort and graphics waaay past what the WiiU can handle the day before? :/ I don't think it will happen, but I definitely won't rule it out. They're all sneaky.

 

[EloquentM]

You're right. Xbox 360 reads at around 15 MB/s and I believe USB 2.0 is around 50-60 MB/s. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Off the top of my head 2.0 can in theory get close to 60 but mostly averages out around 25-30

 

[Rush2thestart]

Oh its that same old quote from Capcom then. I thought something was revealed.

 

[Linkhero1]

Off the top of my head 2.0 is theoretical 40 but mostly averages out around 20-25

Thanks. Still faster than Xbox 360 disc drive, so I don't think 2.0 should be a problem. Would the Wii U to have 3.0 USB Port.

 

[EloquentM]

Thanks. Still faster than Xbox 360 disc drive, so I don't think 2.0 should be a problem. Would the Wii U to have 3.0 USB Port.

Lol I did some stealth editing. 3.0 would be a godsend though. Nintendo needs it.

For more information:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#section_8

Typical hi-speed USB hard drives can be written to at rates around 25–30 MB/s, and read from at rates of 30–42 MB/s, according to routine testing done by CNet.[69] This is 70% of the total bandwidth available.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Capcom said there were no plans or something.

But, as a result of the NDA. I'm not going to judge the third party lineup till post E3.

Capcom's comments make it sound like they're working on a Wii U version but it probably won't be ready for launch. They've already said that they had to cut the dev time in order to move the date up by over a month, so the studio is already under a good deal of pressure just based on that.

 

[lednerg]

You're right. Xbox 360 reads at around 15 MB/s and I believe USB 2.0 is around 50-60 MB/s. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Those are theoretical figures. In real life it's closer to 25 or 30. But yeah, you guys were right about it being faster than a DVD drive.

Still, the Wii U's Blu-ray-ish drive is almost certainly going to be much faster than whatever USB 2.0 drive you've got. That's really the issue at hand here.

 

[EloquentM]

Those are theoretical figures. In real life it's closer to 25 or 30. But yeah, you guys were right about it being faster than a DVD drive.

Still, the Wii U's Blu-ray-ish drive is almost certainly going to be much faster than whatever USB 2.0 drive you've got. That's really the issue at hand here.

Well we'll know in a month if they made the switch to 3.0

 

[GameplayWhore]

You're right. Xbox 360 reads at around 15 MB/s and I believe USB 2.0 is around 50-60 MB/s. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Xbox 360 DVD is 5X to 12X, I guess depending on where on the DVD the data is.

That translates to 6.925 MB/s to 16.62 MB/s. Note that this is not "real world performance" but is what should be achievable generally.

External hard drive transfer rates five years ago in real-world tests varied wildly but could on some models average at just under 30 MB/s.

The peak transfer rate (including data and control) of USB 2.0 is 60 MB/s, so the upper limit won't go wildly higher than what you saw in that aforelinked test, but I guess there might be drives with ~45 MB/s average rates in more recent times, if you'd care to look more aggressively than I did. I don't know what the typical speed for USB 2.0 is.

This may very well be a limiting factor on the Wii U, but the original assertion of USB 2.0 being slower than the Xbox 360 DVD is certifiably false.

 

[Kandinsky]

So what happens when E3 comes and goes, and there still isn't much announced software wise. Do we still cling to a mystery NDA?

I really, honestly believe that will be the case, and it will be glorious.

That already happened with the Gamecube...

Don't forget small discs, Nintendo always finds a way to alienates itself from competition.

 

[MDX]

As much as I want this to be true, do you really think this espionage arms-race esque scenario is plausible? Nintendo throwing off untrusted developers who will leak specs to Sony with old dev kits? Neutral studios being set up? Has this happened before?

I have no direct facts to back up any of this speculation, only historical cases of corporate espionage. But if we look past the veneer of these companies as simply making our beloved video games... Like with Disney behind their cute mouse, these people mean business. And they play for keeps.

Megaliths like Sony and MS didnt get into the video game business because they wanted to make children and game enthusiasts happy all over the world, they got into the business because it is BIG business. All three probably use their resources and wealth to keep tabs on one and other. And some may use dirtier tactics than others. We know that both Sony and MS have been fighting to dominate the living room space. They spent a lot of money doing so. When you are spending that kind of money, you dont leave anything to chance. This will be round three. And we are already seeing that Sony suffering. If the PS4 doesnt do well, what will happen to Sony as a company?

I think Nintendo played it very smart. They basically rope-a-doped Sony and MS. Up until the Wii was officially announced, everyone expected an HD machine.

 

[HylianTom]

I really, honestly believe that will be the case, and it will be glorious.

I don't know about "glorious," but it will be nice to know where everyone stands, who friends are, who foes are, etc. Even if it's "bad" news, I'm looking forward to just finding out.

 

[MDX]

That already happened with the Gamecube...

And GC had an impressive launch game.

 

[Sadist]

Capcom's comments make it sound like they're working on a Wii U version but it probably won't be ready for launch. They've already said that they had to cut the dev time in order to move the date up by over a month, so the studio is already under a good deal of pressure just based on that.

I hope that's the case. I can always buy the PC version (RE 5 on PC was quite pretty) but I'd rather have a Wii U version. One way or the other, both versions will appear later on the market.

 

[Conor 419]

I'd argue that even in its current state, it's looking like the Wii U will have a fantastic, if not the best, Nintendo launch.

 

[BurntPork]

I know Nintendo's is at the start of the second day. Microsoft and Sony are on the first day. Any other big studios showing on the first day?

Nintendo is last, so nothing about Wii U will be at any other conference.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

I say expect to see Samus reflection in her arm cannon, Super Mario 64 reborn in full 1080p, Wave Race with sone of the most amazing water physics on a console. Smash Bros trailer with new characters and some jaw dropping lighting effects for a 2D fighter. F-Zero with Wii-mote controls similar to Excite Truck, a locked 60fps, amazingly detailed tracks and vehicles, online competition at 60fps.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I don't know about "glorious," but it will be nice to know where everyone stands, who friends are, who foes are, etc. Even if it's "bad" news, I'm looking forward to just finding out.

I would be hating on nintendo like mad because it would make them baldfaced liars and it would be generally embarrassing to boot.

Does that make me a foe?

 

[HylianTom]

I would be hating on nintendo like mad because it would make them baldfaced liars and it would be generally embarrassing to boot.

Does that make me a foe?

The "friends" and "foes" language was in intended for the context of developers. That's all.

(And no.. you can't be a foe!)

 

[AlStrong]

Still, the Wii U's Blu-ray-ish drive is almost certainly going to be much faster than whatever USB 2.0 drive you've got.

Their optical drive is going to be at least 6x (Blu-Ray)?

 

[Kandinsky]

I would be hating on nintendo like mad because it would make them baldfaced liars and it would be generally embarrassing to boot.

Does that make me a foe?

I'd be there right with you fighting the good fight.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Well we'll know in a month if they made the switch to 3.0

how easy is this switch though?

if this was not Nintendo we were talking about I'll say why not go all out and got on Thunderbolt

we should consider ourselves lucky we have 2.0 and they came out on day 1 saying it was 2.0 Nintendo does not like change

 

[MDX]

I say expect to see Samus reflection in her arm cannon, Super Mario 64 reborn in full 1080p, Wave Race with sone of the most amazing water physics on a console. Smash Bros trailer with new characters and some jaw dropping lighting effects for a 2D fighter. F-Zero with Wii-mote controls similar to Excite Truck, a locked 60fps, amazingly detailed tracks and vehicles, online competition at 60fps.

I need to a call 911 to save my wallet

 

[TheCongressman1]

I would be hating on nintendo like mad because it would make them baldfaced liars and it would be generally embarrassing to boot.

Same here. I expect the goods, and we better get the goods.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

The "friends" and "foes" language was in intended for the context of developers. That's all.

(And no.. you can't be a foe!)

I knew that's what you meant but I just wanted to LAY DOWN THE LAW so nintendo knows

I'd be there right with you fighting the good fight.

Same here. I expect the goods.

we riot if not, or just be angry on here

 

[MDX]

how easy is this switch though?

if this was not Nintendo we were talking about I'll say why not go all out and got on Thunderbolt

we should consider ourselves lucky we have 2.0 and they came out on day 1 saying it was 2.0 Nintendo does not like change

The other issue is the WiiU has four USB ports.
Should all four be USB3?
Or only the two in the back? Or front?
Will that confuse the average consumer?

 

[lednerg]

Okay, forget the 360 DVD drive. I had the wrong information about that.

I have a 2TB eSATA/USB 2.0 external drive, and when I benchmarked it, the average for USB 2.0 was around 30MB/s, ranging from 20 to 40. In real world tests (copying large files) it stayed around 20MB/s. While there may be faster drives out there, developers can't assume people are going to have them. Compared to the Blu-ray-based drive Wii U has, USB 2.0 is going to be much slower. Blu-ray at 6x is 27MB/s, and 14x is 63MB/s. This could pose a problem for games that rely on streaming data, so I'm wondering if there could be some sort of caching solution in place to deal with this.

 

[HylianTom]

Same here. I expect the goods, and we better get the goods.

I expect some third party support. Mostly from Japan, and more at the beginning of the generation.

When the PS4 and 720 arrive? Not so sure how support is going to look. Kinda skeptical, to be honest. So we might have friends with us at the start of the generation.. but they might be the kind that stop returning phone calls. The kind that go out on Friday night and "forget" to invite you along.. those kind of friends, haha..

So Nintendo might be telling the truth - about the first year or two. :/