Support NeoGAF

[bgassassin]

Will?? Nintendo has been using GL and custom API's since the GC and N64. GL+ extensions, custom API are sure things.

So where is the disagreement at?

I hope they won't, but would you really put it past them?

They hardwired Bump mapping and Normal mapping in Wii's TEV. They won't sacrifice in that area. Playing movie discs aren't related to gaming so that's not justifiable support for the idea of not using an updated tess unit..

 

[watershed]

I think Netflix being such a success on the wii provides even more justification for Nintendo to not include dvd and bluray playback for the wii u. If Nintendo gets it right the wii u will launch with a Netflix app and users will simply carry over to their new console.

 

[MrBelmontvedere]

Do you know what ad hominem means?

You're stupid, therefore your argument is wrong.

That's ad hominem, pointing out your statement as being asinine is not ad hominem.

I hate to contradict you yet again, but "Well that was pretty asinine" leads to the inevitable conclusion that I am therefore wrong. the entirety of your argument against me hinges upon the supposition that my statement was "asinine," and it is therefore wrong. thus it was an ad hominem attack.

unless you were trying to say that my statement was asinine, although nevertheless correct, which seems contradictory to say the least.

from Wikipedia:
An ad hominem (Latin: "to the man", "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it.

that seems to fit this particular circumstance perfectly. "asinine" being the negative characteristic, which leads to the inevitable conclusion that I am therefore wrong.

 

[Dr.Palutena]

^ But he didn't call you asinine, just your statement. How is that ad hominem?By the very meaning you quoted from wikipedia it isn't.

 

[bgassassin]

I hate to contradict you yet again, but "Well that was pretty asinine" leads to the inevitable conclusion that I am therefore wrong. the entirety of your argument against me hinges upon the supposition that my statement was "asinine," and it is therefore wrong. thus it was an ad hominem attack.

unless you were trying to say that my statement was asinine, although nevertheless correct, which seems contradictory to say the least.

from Wikipedia:
An ad hominem (Latin: "to the man", "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it.

that seems to fit this particular circumstance perfectly. "asinine" being the negative characteristic, which leads to the inevitable conclusion that I am therefore wrong.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ad hominem

Definition of AD HOMINEM
1
: appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
2
: marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

So I didn't attack your character.

 

[udivision]

This argument is going on ad nauseam.

 

[bgassassin]

This argument is going on ad nauseam.

Don't worry. I'm forming an ad hoc committee to deal with it.

 

[Javier]

All I know is that when new info comes out, we should find out ad portas.

 

[AceBandage]

These puns feel like they are going ad infinitum...

 

[GDGF]

Last few posts have been hilarious.

Sorry, nothing more to add.

 

[bgassassin]

These puns feel like they are going ad infinitum...

et ultra?

 

[AceBandage]

et ultra?

Et Tu?

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Brut 33 smells horrible.

 

[sfried]

I have never been this disinterested in a Nintendo new system. I was excited at the Gamecube, at the Wii, at the 3DS (I even bought all of them on Day 1)… but for this, this doesn't feel fresh at all. Throwing a screen onto a controller, with a tech that is only comparable to 360/PS3 that we've been seeing for 6 years, is really not that interesting…

I really hope I will be more excited as more is revealed.

Seeing as little else is known about the console appart from a screen on the controller, there's not much to get excited about...yet.

Some part of me believes they held back announcing a feature in Wii U. They were keen on showing controller tech as it seems their competitor's could easily replicate it. But it shouldn't be the only key feature the console has to offer.

All this talk of tech and not many confirmations. The blackout is indeed heavy. They are really tight lipped right now, but I expect a few leaks before E3.

 

[Fantastical]

Okay, I almost made a thread on this that would have been really detailed, but I thought that was a dumb idea so I'll post the abridged version here.

Do you think an educational game could work with Wii U? I was thinking about ways Nintendo could capture the casual market, and one way would be through educational games developed by Nintendo. There have been very many electronic educational tools for children and many of them have actually looked like a video game console or taken a tablet-like form. Brain Age targeted an older crowd, so they could have a more comprehensive educational tool for kids.

I guess it really doesn't expand their market too much since parents would buy a video game console for their kids anyway, but I think it could be a hit and make headlines.

 

[watershed]

I think the wii u is bound to get its own brain age game along with a flood of 3rd party shovelware rip offs. The way I see it the wii u basically allows Nintendo to replicate the same gameplay that was so successful on the ds except now with larger screens, better hardware/features, and hd graphics. We're gonna get more art academy games and probably a wii u flipnote studio as well. Those aren't quite education games but they are expanded audience type software. Nintendogs + Cats + Ponies is also a given I imagine.

 

[bgassassin]

Seeing as little else is known about the console appart from a screen on the controller, there's not much to get excited about...yet.

Some part of me believes they held back announcing a feature in Wii U. They were keen on showing controller tech as it seems their competitor's could easily replicate it. But it shouldn't be the only key feature the console has to offer.

All this talk of tech and not many confirmations. The blackout is indeed heavy. They are really tight lipped right now, but I expect a few leaks before E3.

I think features is more accurate. I can definitely see something like a 70/30 split next E3 for Wii U and 3DS. But I agree that we'll have some leaks leading up to it.

Okay, I almost made a thread on this that would have been really detailed, but I thought that was a dumb idea so I'll post the abridged version here.

Do you think an educational game could work with Wii U? I was thinking about ways Nintendo could capture the casual market, and one way would be through educational games developed by Nintendo. There have been very many electronic educational tools for children and many of them have actually looked like a video game console or taken a tablet-like form. Brain Age targeted an older crowd, so they could have a more comprehensive educational tool for kids.

I guess it really doesn't expand their market too much since parents would buy a video game console for their kids anyway, but I think it could be a hit and make headlines.

I think it can work, but like everything else it would depend on the execution. To me something like that would have to be directed at schools first. That way the premise of the games can be established properly. Then you might have a better chance to make it successful on the home front.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

So where is the disagreement at?

There is no disagreement, you said will. I am saying they do.

I never understand why people get it stuck in their heads that Nintendo buys off the shelf parts and doesn't ask for alteration or modifications. The GPU will be based of an off-the-shelf part but ATI has made some fairly hefty changes in general as well as at Nintendo's request for specific features.

Burnt, Nintendo isn't going to throw in a part that they have to pay out to a consortium on a per console sold basis, nor will they put in a part that will have a third-party dictate any sort of updates or changes. This was one of the major reasons they killed the SNES-CD-ROM with Sony.

 

[sfried]

Burnt, Nintendo isn't going to throw in a part that they have to pay out to a consortium on a per console sold basis, nor will they put in a part that will have a third-party dictate any sort of updates or changes. This was one of the major reasons they killed the SNES-CD-ROM with Sony.

Kinda funny how they got away with using DVD-technology by using proprietary disks (even though the Wii's was esssentially DVD without the logo). Perhaps they're using similar proprietary (as in non-consortium certified) BDs for media in Wii U.

I would wish some third party made video playback available on this new system, but seeing as how BD requires it's own custom firmware, that could be problematic.

 

[[Nintex]]

If Nintendo wants to cater to the hardcore more they should start the hype train, viral campaigns for this thing soonish. I'm not sure what they're thinking right now but even press releases about multiplatform games announced for 2012 never mention the Wii U. Ask any third party about it and it's something like: "Yeah we're thinking about it" even the games announced(Killer Freaks, Assassins Creed, LEGO City Stories etc.) haven't been shown since E3. Instead of plugging Skyward Sword for the 10th time, Miyamoto should've shown the first Wii U Pikmin footage or something at that 3DS briefing. Does Japan even know the console is coming out?

Take the story that Peter Moore visited Nintendo last week to look at the system and discuss the release and whatnot. Nintendo could've at least thrown out some photo's with Moore and Iwata discussing(Iwata Asks with Peter Moore?) Wii U and stuff to tell the world that the system is still in development and moving along nicely. They don't have to show the games yet if they don't want to(that I don't get but it's Nintendo so whatever) but they could at least show something, anything. This is certainly the weirdest "year before launch" hype campaign I've ever seen for a system.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

If Nintendo wants to cater to the hardcore more they should start the hype train, viral campaigns for this thing soonish. I'm not sure what they're thinking right now but even press releases about multiplatform games announced for 2012 never mention the Wii U. Ask any third party about it and it's something like: "Yeah we're thinking about it" even the games announced(Killer Freaks, Assassins Creed, LEGO City Stories etc.) haven't been shown since E3. Instead of plugging Skyward Sword for the 10th time, Miyamoto should've shown the first Wii U Pikmin footage or something at that 3DS briefing. Does Japan even know the console is coming out?

Take the story that Peter Moore visited Nintendo last week to look at the system and discuss the release and whatnot. Nintendo could've at least thrown out some photo's with Moore and Iwata discussing(Iwata Asks with Peter Moore?) Wii U and stuff to tell the world that the system is still in development and moving along nicely. They don't have to show the games yet if they don't want to(that I don't get but it's Nintendo so whatever) but they could at least show something, anything. This is certainly the weirdest "year before launch" hype campaign I've ever seen for a system.

I agree it is weird, because once Nintendo revealed the Wiimote at TGS that hype train was was in full force (even though they didn't even really show it). Unless Nintendo has another ace up it's sleeve regarding hardware/IO/etc of some kind that can spark that fire. Then the hype has to start soon, Dec would be a perfect time for a proper conference.

 

[jump_button]

What they need to do is set them self apart from PS360, I cant see next gen to be that big of a leap so the masses will just see it as the same, and if the games are the same

We need to see Wii U only games to start pop up soon are they really going to wait for next E3?

 

[walking fiend]

What they need to do is set them self apart from PS360, I cant see next gen to be that big of a leap so the masses will just see it as the same, and if the games are the same

We need to see Wii U only games to start pop up soon are they really going to wait for next E3?

they said they
ll start from the next year, may be anytime

 

[[Nintex]]

I agree it is weird, because once Nintendo revealed the Wiimote at TGS that hype train was was in full force (even though they didn't even really show it). Unless Nintendo has another ace up it's sleeve regarding hardware/IO/etc of some kind that can spark that fire. Then the hype has to start soon, Dec would be a perfect time for a proper conference.

Yep, I recall Peter Moore, AMD, Samsung, Rare and like an army of other developers were beating the HD lucid dream Xbox 360 future daily even when they had nothing to say other than some meaningless tech dribble.

 

[AniHawk]

was the hd lucid dream stuff happening in 2004? i don't remember much about the xenon hype until 2005. then it was a very short six months from its official unveiling to launch day. that was pretty weird.

 

[[Nintex]]

was the hd lucid dream stuff happening in 2004? i don't remember much about the xenon hype until 2005. then it was a very short six months from its official unveiling to launch day. that was pretty weird.

I think it started at the beginning of 2005 mostly but after the announcement Microsoft kept throwing out stuff. Nintendo announced the Wii U about 10-12 months before release apparently(that's still the official word from Sega and friends) and haven't talked about it since. You can count on Microsoft pushing the next box like crazy when they announce it and my money is on 'very soon' for that one.

 

[AniHawk]

I think it started at the beginning of 2005 mostly but after the announcement Microsoft kept throwing out stuff. Nintendo announced the Wii U about 10-12 months before release apparently(that's still the official word from Sega and friends) and haven't talked about it since. You can count on Microsoft pushing the next box like crazy when they announce it and my money is on 'very soon' for that one.

i'm placing money on microsoft going next year too, anything to put sony into a shitty position.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

was the hd lucid dream stuff happening in 2004? i don't remember much about the xenon hype until 2005.

Right, I don't think they showed anything officially until that MTV unveiling sometime around E3 2005, about a half year before launch.

 

[TunaLover]

If Nintendo wants to cater to the hardcore more they should start the hype train, viral campaigns for this thing soonish. I'm not sure what they're thinking right now but even press releases about multiplatform games announced for 2012 never mention the Wii U. Ask any third party about it and it's something like: "Yeah we're thinking about it" even the games announced(Killer Freaks, Assassins Creed, LEGO City Stories etc.) haven't been shown since E3. Instead of plugging Skyward Sword for the 10th time, Miyamoto should've shown the first Wii U Pikmin footage or something at that 3DS briefing. Does Japan even know the console is coming out?

Take the story that Peter Moore visited Nintendo last week to look at the system and discuss the release and whatnot. Nintendo could've at least thrown out some photo's with Moore and Iwata discussing(Iwata Asks with Peter Moore?) Wii U and stuff to tell the world that the system is still in development and moving along nicely. They don't have to show the games yet if they don't want to(that I don't get but it's Nintendo so whatever) but they could at least show something, anything. This is certainly the weirdest "year before launch" hype campaign I've ever seen for a system.

I disagree, Nintendo should focus in their current products as they always do, and drop the bomb only few months before launch. It doesn't mean that they couldn't get a bunch of third party games in development for Wii U as we speak, it just mean that there's a possible NDA. If any Nintendo should play to be the underdog, don't mention too much Wii U until they have the console in more advanced state, that way competition don't feel the pressure for jump over Nintendo. I've always prefered that 1-2 punch, when they give an overload of info and hype for E3.

 

[AceBandage]

I disagree, Nintendo should focus in their current products as they always do, and drop the bomb only few months before launch. It doesn't mean that they couldn't get a bunch of third party games in development for Wii U as we speak, it just mean that there's a possible NDA. If any Nintendo should play to be the underdog, don't mention too much Wii U until they have the console in more advanced state, that way competition don't feel the pressure for jump over Nintendo. I've always prefered that 1-2 punch, when they give an overload of info and hype for E3.

Honestly, they're screwed either way.

They keep quiet and do an E3 blowout and people complain that it's about time and they should have been hyping it all along.

They slowly leak info and don't show anything really new at E3 (like what Sony has been doing) and people complain that it was boring.

The truth is, it doesn't matter right now. The vast majority of people that will be buying any system aren't concerned with next gen right now. Not enough is known about it.
Focus on what is out right now and you're golden.

 

[Snakeyes]

My interest in this system is fading... it really seems that this will not be much of a bump above the current gen.

BurntPork, I liked you better with the Ghirahim avy. It complimented your controversial persona very well.

 

[guek]

My interest in this system is fading... it really seems that this will not be much of a bump above the current gen.

what makes you say that?

Personally I think it'll be a modest technical bump that devs will probably appreciate but will be difficult to notice at face value. From what I understand, a 4870 equivalent would be a pretty respectable step up from current consoles. It's almost guaranteed though that the most visually impressive games on the Wii U will be from nintendo and not from 3rd party efforts.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Right, I don't think they showed anything officially until that MTV unveiling sometime around E3 2005, about a half year before launch.

This is correct. All the leaks before hand make it seem earlier though.

 

[snesfreak]

what makes you say that?

Personally I think it'll be a modest technical bump that devs will probably appreciate but will be difficult to notice at face value. From what I understand, a 4870 equivalent would be a pretty respectable step up from current consoles. It's almost guaranteed though that the most visually impressive games on the Wii U will be from nintendo and not from 3rd party efforts.

It's Nintendo, so the worst possible way to see things is the ONLY way to see them.

 

[bgassassin]

There is no disagreement, you said will. I am saying they do.

I never understand why people get it stuck in their heads that Nintendo buys off the shelf parts and doesn't ask for alteration or modifications. The GPU will be based of an off-the-shelf part but ATI has made some fairly hefty changes in general as well as at Nintendo's request for specific features.

Burnt, Nintendo isn't going to throw in a part that they have to pay out to a consortium on a per console sold basis, nor will they put in a part that will have a third-party dictate any sort of updates or changes. This was one of the major reasons they killed the SNES-CD-ROM with Sony.

I with you. I don't understand why some are so stuck on the belief that what we saw a few months ago will stay the same by the time it launches.

Based on the leaked specs of the 7000 series and the possibility of a 28nm GPU, I'm going to make a bold prediction.

The design and performance of the final GPU for Wii U will fall between the Lombok XL and Thames Pro.

 

[AceBandage]

I with you. I don't understand why some are so stuck on the belief that what we saw a few months ago will stay the same by the time it launches.

Based on the leaked specs of the 7000 series and the possibility of a 28nm GPU, I'm going to make a bold prediction.

The design and performance of the final GPU for Wii U will fall between the Lombok XL and Thames Pro.

So between 40 and 50 GameCubes?

 

[guek]

doesn't that run completely against what was seen at E3 though?

I'm with you that a lot probably has been changed since then, but wouldn't that be too drastic of a leap based off what we saw?

 

[Plinko]

My interest in this system is fading... it really seems that this will not be much of a bump above the current gen.

I'm still believing Nintendo changes this thing drastically from what it was when we saw it at E3. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see this system undergo some major changes.

 

[Snakeyes]

I'm still believing Nintendo changes this thing drastically from what it was when we saw it at E3. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see this system undergo some major changes.

They could start with the name by removing the "Wii" part of it altogether and improving the Upad by making it more aesthetically pleasing and ditching the slidepads for true analog sticks.

"Luring back the hardcore while keeping Apple at bay" my ass.

 

[AceBandage]

E3 was definitely not final hardware. It was a pretty sloppily thrown together box with some pretty small tech demos.

What we'll see next E3 will be pretty different.

 

[Übermatik]

^ Agreed.

The design and performance of the final GPU for Wii U will fall between the Lombok XL and Thames Pro.

What does this mean exactly, in terms of performance?
How capable a chip is this?
All I know is that New Zealand, Tahiti, Lombok and Thames are AMD's new 28nm chip code names, but that's it...

 

[Snakeyes]

E3 was definitely not final hardware. It was a pretty sloppily thrown together box with some pretty small tech demos.

What we'll see next E3 will be pretty different.

And by that time the 720 will be revealed and have all the dudebros salivating at its graphics and the 3rd parties jumping ship again. What does Nintendo do then?

 

[Hobbestetrician]

They could start with the name by removing the "Wii" part of it altogether and improving the Upad by making it more aesthetically pleasing and ditching the slidepads for true analog sticks.

"Luring back the hardcore while keeping Apple at bay" my ass.

So all they have to do, in your snake eyes, is change the name and add analog sticks and they win? That is what is keeping you from being excited?

And by that time the 720 will be revealed and have all the dudebros salivating at its graphics and the 3rd parties jumping ship again. What does Nintendo do then?

Oh, you think they shouldn't even bother. Gotcha.

 

[Snakeyes]

So all they have to do, in your snake eyes, is change the name and add analog sticks and they win? That is what is keeping you from being excited?



Oh, you think they shouldn't even bother. Gotcha.

I've stated that power is my main concern. They have to lose money on the hardware in the beginning if they're hoping to deliver on their "system for everyone" promises.

 

[watershed]

A little OT but I'm really curious what the nextbox and ps4's graphical output will look like. Unless Microsoft and Sony really screw up the E3 reveals these consoles are bound to make a bigger splash than the wii u did. But the question in the back of everyone's mind will be "how much more powerful than the wii u is it?"

 

[AceBandage]

And by that time the 720 will be revealed and have all the dudebros salivating at its graphics and the 3rd parties jumping ship again. What does Nintendo do then?

You're talking in complete what ifs that are impossible to know.

Besides, there's no way the 720 is so powerful that the Wii U can't compete.
I'm sorry, but it's impossible.

 

[Hobbestetrician]

A little OT but I'm really curious what the nextbox and ps4's graphical output will look like. Unless Microsoft and Sony really screw up the E3 reveals these consoles are bound to make a bigger splash than the wii u did. But the question in the back of everyone's mind will be "how much more powerful than the wii u is it?"

Pretty sure most people are already convinced they are leaps and bounds more powerful than the Wii U based on nothing more than Nintendo made their last console not as powerful.

It is like in politics where a portion of people will vote Republican or Democrat regardless of who the candidate is or their policy ideas and there are those Independents/people in the middle that can be swayed with facts or rhetoric. Some have their minds made up and there is nothing Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony can do about it and there are those that can be swayed. Nintendo got out of that race and went after people who had never cared to vote before and got them to the ballots and now a large chunk of old voters got upset about it.

 

[[Nintex]]

And by that time the 720 will be revealed and have all the dudebros salivating at its graphics and the 3rd parties jumping ship again. What does Nintendo do then?

Pray to everything that is holy that MS decided to use the AMD Bulldozer and wasn't able to cook up something else fast enough.

It's kinda weird, Nintendo just threw down their cards like this. We know there won't be a Smash Bros. anytime soon since Kid Icarus has to be finished first we also know that Zelda was just a tech demo and not in development yet and at E3 Koizumi was still looking at various ideas and prototypes for a new 3D Mario. It wouldn't surprise me if Nintendo went ahead and made New Super Mario Bros. Mii like shown at E3 along with Pikmin 3 for example. There has to be something out there that we haven't seen yet because I can't see them counting on stuff like Ghost Recon Online, Killer Freaks or Chase Mii to carry the system.

 

[BurntPork]

DVD and Blu-Ray require paying royalties to consortiums, and having a primary disc slot that reads from off-the-shelf disc formats (piracy risk), and allowing format consortiums to dictate hardware design decisions (DVD Playback was dropped from the Wii during development because Nintendo didn't want to add an optical audio port, which the DVD consortium required) in order to provide a service that most of their audience already has a device that plays that format anyway. Blu-Ray would also mean that Nintendo would have to allow Blu-Ray firmware updates, and I don't see them being open to a third party having access to their firmware.

But the casual audience would see it as a major selling point. Chances are that it would have been worth it in the end.

They hardwired Bump mapping and Normal mapping in Wii's TEV. They won't sacrifice in that area.

Hm. I keep forgetting that.

 

[AzaK]

What they need to do is set them self apart from PS360, I cant see next gen to be that big of a leap so the masses will just see it as the same, and if the games are the same

We need to see Wii U only games to start pop up soon are they really going to wait for next E3?

I really do wonder how this thing will be marketted.

We've seen the "casual" or should I say "non enthusiast" marketting in a form of the E3 teaser videos they showed with NSMBMii, Kid on couch, dad on TV, Wii Fit, Shuriken, Baseball catching game etc. But I really didn't see much in the way of super hyping enthusiast (Not just Nintendo fan) gaming fare.

We all pretty much agree it's not going to be a mind blowing graphical powerhouse that's leaps and bounds ahead of the competition so I find it hard to see how they can generate that Hollywood style hype that the other platform holders are good at doing (I'd love to see it marketted that way to be honest). And of course last gen the graphic/power leap was huge so it was easier to blow people away.

But the casual audience would see it as a major selling point. Chances are that it would have been worth it in the end.

I'd see it as a major selling point for me too; the less devices I have under my TV the better. I'd even pay the license fee to enable it.