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Wii U Thread - Now in HD!

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Coolwhip

Banned
Sure, if you're a massive brand name like 'Nintendo'. Retro isn't that, as much as the niche gaming public might adore them. DKCR sold 5+ million copies by being a 2D platformer from a very well known intellectual property, perfect for the Wii market, off the back of a reliable publisher/developer. 'Retro Studios' is not a name that pushes software into millions.

I'm pretty sure 99% of the people think Nintendo made Metroid Prime, not Retro. FPS fans want a traditional game with online multiplayer, MP wasn't that.
 
That's probably the same website Pachter uses. But yeah it doesn't work like that.

Yep. Here's a more thoughtful analysis:

Nintendo (OTC: NTDOY.PK) has had a rough 2012, though it certainly brought some of the pain on itself.

With the Wii home game system getting long in the tooth, Nintendo launched the 3DS system last year to reinvigorate its portable game sales and profits, while putting the final touches on its next generation system for the home.

Unfortunately, things didn’t work out as planned for Nintendo. Smart phones and tablets from Apple (Nasdaq: AAPL ) and Google (Nasdaq: GOOG ) had already gained valuable mindshare in portable gaming, and Nintendo hurt its competitive position by initially setting its price point for the 3DS too high.

Nintendo eventually lowered the price of the 3DS in response, which gave a boost to system sales, and created the large market Nintendo wanted for game titles. But the price cut also means Nintendo is selling the system as a loss leader and relying on game titles to claw back probability.

A catalyst on the horizon
Unprofitable 3DS hardware sales have made profitability elusive for Nintendo over the last 12 months. But I expect better graphics, and new game play Wii U will push the company into the black when it launches this fall. Rumors point toward a November launch, and Nintendo has already said that at least 20 titles will be available at launch, and broad support from third party game developers.

One mystery remains for the Wii U, and that’s its price. This will likely be revealed on September 13, when Nintendo holds a media event in New York. The dynamics of playing games at home mean that Nintendo should have to worry about competition from Apple and Google’s Android for the Wii U, but with new home systems on the way from Sony (NYSE: SNE ) and Microsoft (Nasdaq: MSFT ) in 2013, Nintendo will need to set a price point that makes holiday sales of the Wii U as close to a no-brainer for parents as possible.

I think Nintendo has learned its lesson with the 3DS, and won’t over reach on price with the Wii U. And I like its competitive chances against Sony and Microsoft, too.

The value goes deeper
The Wii U isn’t all Nintendo has going for it. With Mario Brothers, The Legend of Zelda, Donkey Kong, Pokemon, Metroid, and many others under the corporate umbrella, Nintendo has a library of game franchises that hold durable value, and could one day be brought to smartphones or other game systems. To date, Nintendo has chosen to keep its franchises exclusively on Nintendo hardware, but the opportunity to leverage its franchises on other systems in the future is very valuable.

Nintendo also has a strong balance sheet. The financial strength is partly a blessing and partly a curse. With $11 billion in cash on hand, Nintendo can afford to make mistakes, and even the occasional big blunder like it did in pricing the 3DS. But the same security can also make Nintendo complacent, and potentially too stubborn to change and evolve with technology. With the Wii U launch weeks away, I’m giving the company the benefit of the doubt, and taking the fact that Nintendo has 75% of its market cap in cash as a positive. But this is a view I’m willing to reassess.

What could make it a value trap
I think Nintendo is a great value here but, as with most great value stock opportunities, there is also the chance it could turn into a value trap. If the Wii U flops, and Nintendo sticks to its current policy of only developing games for its own hardware, then it could continue to bleed red ink in 2013 and beyond. That will gradually weaken Nintendo’s strong balance sheet, and the share price will likely follow the same downward trend.

If this scenario plays out, and Nintendo shows no signs of using its valuable game franchise to take advantage of the mobile device market, I’ll probably end up selling the shares at a loss. So, early in 2013, I’ll need to make an assessment of the Wii U’s launch, and what direction Nintendo is heading in with its portable platform. If I see signs of the value trap scenario playing out, I’m going to be biased toward selling.

Foolish final thoughts
A great deal hinges on the launch of the Wii U for Nintendo. If that’s all there was going for the company, I would probably watch this event from the sidelines. The ongoing value of its game franchises and strong balance sheet are what have me willing to take a small position in Nintendo ahead of the Wii U’s launch. I’ll be looking to buy shares in the next few days, and will be back next week with another new name for the portfolio, so makes sure you check back next week!

As a reminder, you can follow along with all my real-money Orange Portfolio trades and updates here.
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/08/31/why-im-buying-this-japanese-value-stock.aspx
 

Comandr

Member
You said yourself that you don't want to spend more than 5 seconds with a enemy encounter - in a game that is designed so that every single enemy behaviour is a puzzle in itself. This is no Bayonetta or Super Mario. I'm pretty sure that you can waggle yourself through through the game somehow, but that speedrunner mentality can be used in almost every game. Plus you should take some fucking time with a game like this and play ut like it's supposed to be played. Heck, there was one dude in the forever alone thread who said that he had to dance with a chair to get a co-op achievement in Dance Central :lol

And if some easy hand movements put you off, I recommend you to exercise or whatever. I never saw anybody having to turn their hands like you described. And if nothing helps then re-calibrate your Wii Remote and you are good to go.

With all due respect, who are you to tell me how games are supposed to be played? I play Zelda for the story, the exploration, and the enjoyment of the world. If I had the option, I would have turned motion controls off. If it were up to me, the Wii wouldn't have had motion controls at all. I personally hate motion controls. Most of them are gimicky, and a lot of them are painful to me. I have no reason to like them. If I don't want to spend a lot of my time doing any particular thing, I shouldn't have to. I would much rather be spending my time finding heart pieces or fishing or whatever than spending copious amounts of time battling enemies in some kind of puzzle deathmatch.

IwataPrettyBoy.gif
 

TunaLover

Member
It's quite ironic that Sony is willing to drop big money in the production of PS4, the same company that is bleeding money like crazy, Nintendo being in a much healthy position is extremely conservative by comparison.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I'm pretty sure 99% of the people think Nintendo made Metroid Prime, not Retro. FPS fans want a traditional game with online multiplayer, MP wasn't that.

We'll, they'd be kinda right. Retro is a 100% wholly owned subsidiary of Nintendo. Like EAD and Monolith. They're a component of Nintendo the company itself.

But yeah, most consumers would not recognise Retro, but instead Nintendo. Same goes for 90% of developers for that matter, when it comes to the mass market. Consumers recognise Nintendo as they're a historic company with strong brand recognition.
 

Dr.Hadji

Member
They worked fine for me, too - and I hated them. I was thinking about replaying it today but then remembered that godawful flapping you have to do to fly around. Again: for me the controls worked, and I hated it. So looking forward to buttons.

You're going to one of those people who act surprised when Nintendo announces ZeldaU will again have motion controls when they've said they're heading in that direction for awhile now. Are you just hoping against hope at this point or what?
 
You're going to one of those people who act surprised when Nintendo announces ZeldaU will again have motion controls when they've said they're heading in that direction for awhile now. Are you just hoping against hope at this point or what?
I think it's a realistic expectation for them to offer both controls. Especially if wiimotes don't come bundled with all SKUs of the console and/or game.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Going through all the recent hires paints a picture:

- Two Vigil character artists
- One Vigil creature artist
- Uncharted 3 environment artist
- Black Ops level designer
- Borderlands and Rage lead artist
- Mythic and Bioware MMO engine engineer
- Out-of-core specialist
- Unit13 and InFamous 2 designer

I see first person, open world and fantasy.

ALL those guys are working at Retro now?!
 

Comandr

Member
You're going to one of those people who act surprised when Nintendo announces ZeldaU will again have motion controls when they've said they're heading in that direction for awhile now. Are you just hoping against hope at this point or what?

I really don't see how Nintendo can launch a new console with an amazing new controller and then not take full advantage of it with one of their flagship IPs. It's mind boggling. The notion that Nintendo would have you put the GamePad down and then use a wii remote and nunchuk again is almost unfathomable. No, I firmly believe that the next iteration of Zelda will go back to a traditional control scheme using the gamepad and the touch panel as inventory/map, perhaps integrate the camera for some AR stuff. Maybe you can scan enemies on your TV and it brings up information on them. Who knows. There are motion sensors built into the gamepad, and I can virtually guarantee you thats as far as they'll take it.
 

JordanN

Banned
Anyone else think ZombiU's graphics are underrated?

The wall textures actually look to take advance of the extra memory, there's solid IQ, impressive lens flare and illumination effects, interactive shadow processing, post processing depth of field, nice ragdoll physics (in direct contradiction of Wii U's alleged "10 year old" CPU). If I had to make a complaint, it would only be the limited animations on the Zombie's when they attempt to cross an obstacle.

I would say it ranks second in best looking game built for Wii U (with the first being P-100).
 
I have this pessimistic feeling that regardless of sales the Wii U is not going to live up to the potential offered by the gamepad.

I hope I'm wrong; but the conservative nature of game publishers will mean a generation of baby steps in terms of innovation. The two big "next-gen" titles we've seen (Watch_dogs and 1313) seem to bear this out (with admittedly small peeks so far).

Does anyone agree? Have a great rebuttal?
 

jmizzal

Member
I will not GTFO.

I'd just rather they don't develop in a genre that a dozen other teams inside Nintendo do and do well.

(Nor do I consider it a top-5 2D platformer this generation).

I agree that Retro should not be doing platformers like you said Nintendo has way too many teams that can do those.

Even tho I loved DKCR

Retro needs to be doing more western style games the push the systems hardware, something like a western RPG, Action adventure, 3rd person shooter, FPS, or open world game.

If Retro was bigger they could have a team do DKCR and another do the huge WiiU game
 

Comandr

Member
Anyone else think ZombiU's graphics are underrated?

The wall textures actually look to take advance of the extra memory, there's solid IQ, impressive lens flare and illumination effects, interactive shadow processing, post processing depth of field, nice ragdoll physics (in direct contradiction of Wii U's alleged "10 year old" CPU).

I would say it ranks second in best looking game built for Wii U (with the first being P-100).

I think that, despite all of the speculation and analyzing people are doing right now, picking apart every little thing -- When you're actually playing the game on your TV, it won't matter. You won't notice, or you won't care.

The Wii U (right now from what we've seen) isn't capable of Watch Dogs, or Starwars 1313, or Agni's Philosophy. But years from now, when those games are actually ready to ship, who knows. From everything we understand, the Wii U's full potential has not even come close to being realized. In a year, no one will be talking about Wii U's launch titles. The only reason they are all blowing up right now is because they are the first glimpse we have of Nintendo's next gen console. They are the first glimpse we have of next gen, period. I think everyone is expecting a tremendous graphical leap, but when it comes down to it, and all three systems are out, there won't be a big difference. Maybe people will be disappointed, maybe they'll be surprised, or upset, or relieved; but we have to realize that that technology is starting to plateau.

Edit: Before anyone gets crazy, I understand Agni's is a tech demo, not an actual product in development, but Square has made mention that something like that is totally possible on the upcoming generations given enough memory.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Metroid Prime: A better and more important game than Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time combined.

Should have sold 100 billion copies.
 

jmizzal

Member
Going through all the recent hires paints a picture:

- Two Vigil character artists
- One Vigil creature artist
- Uncharted 3 environment artist
- Black Ops level designer
- Borderlands and Rage lead artist
- Mythic and Bioware MMO engine engineer
- Out-of-core specialist
- Unit13 and InFamous 2 designer

I see first person, open world and fantasy.

Samus all Uncharted up like Tomb Raider and Remember me ;) lol jk

I would love for an open world 3rd person Borderlands type RPG, and if they use a kinda stylized look, they could do a lot more then going ultra realistic and push the WiiU
 

wsippel

Banned
Sounds like a hypothetical. For one thing, we have no indication that TSMC are involved in manufacturing any of the Wii U's components, and for another thing, indications are that Wii U's GPU actually makes use of IBM's eDRAM, so there are hardly going to be any confidentiality problems.
They're quoting Bob Patti, the CTO of Tezzaron Semiconductors - the very company seemingly responsible for the stacking process. And it makes perfect sense. TSMC manufactures GPUs for AMD. Tezzaron is a partner of both IBM and TSMC. And with a stacked chip, the GPU could use IBM manufactured eDRAM. Because the eDRAM would be bolted on top of the GPU in the same package.
 

BD1

Banned
NST is also a thing, although they weren't doing so well after HAMMER and Crush were cancelled. There were rumors of hirings/greenlighting earlier this year, though, no?

Wouldn't shock me one bit if NST was developing the next Donkey Kong Country.

DKCR brought the DK IP back with a vengeance. I can't imagine Nintendo is going to throw a 5million unit seller back in the attic. And NST hired Hirokazu Yasuhara, Sonic co-creator, earlier this year. He's got some serious 2D side scrolling platformer experience.
 

DrWong

Member
So, we're again trapped in the Retro loop discussion? Starfox X nintendoIP rumor incoming?

What have you done Nintendo...
 

Kacho

Member
Anyone else think ZombiU's graphics are underrated?

The wall textures actually look to take advance of the extra memory, there's solid IQ, impressive lens flare and illumination effects, interactive shadow processing, post processing depth of field, nice ragdoll physics (in direct contradiction of Wii U's alleged "10 year old" CPU). If I had to make a complaint, it would only be the limited animations on the Zombie's when they attempt to cross an obstacle.

I would say it ranks second in best looking game built for Wii U (with the first being P-100).

Considering it's a launch title, I think it looks great. I'm not tech junkie or graphics lover, but the game looks fantastic to me.

Metroid Prime: A better and more important game than Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time combined.

Should have sold 100 billion copies.

Now you're talking.
 

Comandr

Member
Metroid Prime: A better and more important game than Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time combined.

Should have sold 100 billion copies.

Not sure if serious... But MP was a super amazing game, and really should have done better. It's too bad that such a tremendous achievement in the series wasn't greeted with better sales. Transforming the world to 3D, nailing so many aspects -- platforming, the visors, the beams... All perfect.

Can't wait for dat eShop.
 

ThatObviousUser

ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
Going through all the recent hires paints a picture:

- Two Vigil character artists
- One Vigil creature artist
- Uncharted 3 environment artist
- Black Ops level designer
- Borderlands and Rage lead artist
- Mythic and Bioware MMO engine engineer
- Out-of-core specialist
- Unit13 and InFamous 2 designer

I see first person, open world and fantasy.

Raven Blade: Resurrection

Metroid Prime: A better and more important game than Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time combined.

Should have sold 100 billion copies.

*pages Anihawk*
 

jmizzal

Member
Keep in mind the first two Metroid Prime games had to work with the crappy GC install base, and the first one on Wii came out very early on, DKCR returns had to work with 80 mil install base. DCKR would have still sold more but Metroid Prime games would have did better with better install base.
 

Kacho

Member
Keep in mind the first two Metroid Prime games had to work with the crappy GC install base, and the first one on Wii came out very early on, DKCR returns had to work with 80 mil install base. DCKR would have still sold more but Metroid Prime games would have did better with better install base.

What about Other M? It came out when there was a huge install base and did quite poorly iirc.
 
The Star Fox vs. Metroid thing doesn't come up enough

I mean, it was obviously fake, but it doesn't come up enough because the board as a whole should constantly be shaming Paul Gale for making news up.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Not sure if serious...

Real talk, Prime is in my top five games of all time, and is in my opinion far and away one of the best video games Nintendo has ever produced. It was to Metroid what Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time were to their respective franchises, and I firmly believe it is in no way a less important game to Nintendo's portfolio.

I really, really like Prime.
 

Lachie007

Member
I thought it was confirmed that wii u zelda would still have motion controls, at least for the sword-something im more than happy about. Theres no way im going back to mashing the b button. They'll probably use the gamepad for like the map or somethin.

Not every game needs to use this controller!
 

Sheroking

Member
Metroid Prime sold well. This was a GameCube game that pushed around two million units.

Of course Donkey Kong Country Returns outsold it. It is far more accessible. It's the same reason New Super Mario Brothers Wii sold more than three times what Galaxy did.

I thought it was confirmed that wii u zelda would still have motion controls, at least for the sword-something im more than happy about. Theres no way im going back to mashing the b button again. They'll probably use the gamepad for like the map or somethin.

Not every game needs to use this controller!

Not only was it not confirmed, Miyamoto pointed out that motion controls were divisive and wouldn't say that they would be featured in the Wii U Zelda.

I would like the option to go back to buttons. I didn't think MotionPlus was mature enough. They worked well comparatively, but were very far from perfect.
 

AndTAR

Member
Speaking of the Metroid Prime series on Wii, I never fully understood Nintendo's choice of marketing for the Wii installment. They included Metroid Prime 3 in the "Wii Would Like to Play" series of ads, if my memory is not completely off. Seems like a weird title to market to a casual crowd. Desperation for sales?

Real talk, Prime is in my top five games of all time, and is in my opinion far and away one of the best video games Nintendo has ever produced. It was to Metroid what Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time were to their respective franchises, and I firmly believe it is in no way a less important game to Nintendo's portfolio.

I really, really like Prime.
I would kill for a Wii U installment that played similarly to Prime 1. Afraid it's never gonna happen though, considering HD development costs + Prime sales + Nintendo's interests in more recognizable franchises (Mario/Zelda/Donkey Kong), I guess.
 

Dr.Hadji

Member
I really don't see how Nintendo can launch a new console with an amazing new controller and then not take full advantage of it with one of their flagship IPs. It's mind boggling. The notion that Nintendo would have you put the GamePad down and then use a wii remote and nunchuk again is almost unfathomable. No, I firmly believe that the next iteration of Zelda will go back to a traditional control scheme using the gamepad and the touch panel as inventory/map, perhaps integrate the camera for some AR stuff. Maybe you can scan enemies on your TV and it brings up information on them. Who knows. There are motion sensors built into the gamepad, and I can virtually guarantee you thats as far as they'll take it.

Fair reasons, all of which ignore what Nintendo has said thus far on the matter. But hey, doesn't bother me. I love all Zeldas.
 
Real talk, Prime is in my top five games of all time, and is in my opinion far and away one of the best video games Nintendo has ever produced. It was to Metroid what Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time were to their respective franchises, and I firmly believe it is in no way a less important game to Nintendo's portfolio.

I really, really like Prime.

Your loving words make me wish for a HD VC GC release...

Fair reasons, all of which ignore what Nintendo has said thus far on the matter. But hey, doesn't bother me. I love all Zeldas.
They haven't said much about it. Point me to anything they've said that suggests motion control again?
 
Annoyingly,that makes a whole bunch of sense. Nintendo did make a point of saying they were focusing purely on launch/window (4months) which implied they were not keen to show us things too far down the line. Showing a teaser for a distant (12 months+) game would have undermined this approach. Then again I've never expected retros game to be out any earlier than late 2013 anyway. Maybe we'll see this pulled e3 teaser on 13th Sept, but it'll be nothing more than a brief trailer imo.

I suspect it was a live on-stage demo which got pulled because someone found a Class A bug at the last minute. If that's true then we could be looking at a launch window title. Going to be interesting to see what we're going to see on Thursday.
 

AniHawk

Member
Real talk, Prime is in my top five games of all time, and is in my opinion far and away one of the best video games Nintendo has ever produced. It was to Metroid what Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time were to their respective franchises, and I firmly believe it is in no way a less important game to Nintendo's portfolio.

I really, really like Prime.

i don't see how prime is more important than sm64 or oot.

sm64 for being the most successful 3d platformer of all-time, and bringing analog stick controls to the masses. oot for z-targeting, which apparently is a thing.

metroid prime has the visor? the storytelling elements that bioshock ripped off? the boring level design that bioshock tried to rip off but then didn't and made an even more boring game somehow?

that last bit was because i was reminded at how hard bioshock sucked.
 
i don't see how prime is more important than sm64 or oot.

sm64 for being the most successful 3d platformer of all-time, and bringing analog stick controls to the masses. oot for z-targeting, which apparently is a thing.

metroid prime has the visor? the storytelling elements that bioshock ripped off? the boring level design that bioshock tried to rip off but then didn't and made an even more boring game somehow?

that last bit was because i was reminded at how hard bioshock sucked.

I think he meant that it was like SM64 and OOT in that it successfully translated a classic Nintendo IP to the 3D space in an inventive way.

And where's this idea that Retro had something to show at E3?
 

marc^o^

Nintendo's Pro Bono PR Firm
Real talk, Prime is in my top five games of all time, and is in my opinion far and away one of the best video games Nintendo has ever produced. It was to Metroid what Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time were to their respective franchises, and I firmly believe it is in no way a less important game to Nintendo's portfolio.

I really, really like Prime.
Prime is like a Zelda dunjon that never ends. Level design at its best.
 

Lachie007

Member
Speaking of the Metroid Prime series on Wii, I never fully understood Nintendo's choice of marketing for the Wii installment. They included Metroid Prime 3 in the "Wii Would Like to Play" series of ads, if my memory is not completely off. Seems like a weird title to market to a casual crowd. Desperation for sales?

To me Nintendo of america really had no idea how to market that game. Why couldn't they do a live action ad like they did 4 prime 1 and other m. The other m commercial was awesome!
 

ChaosXVI

Member
Prime is my favorite game of all time as well, it took nearly everything that made Super Metroid so great and did it in 3D, and added a shit-ton of new things that makes it superior to everything that came before it, and perhaps after it.

An HD re-release of the Prime Trilogy honestly seems like a no brainer to me, but I doubt it'll happen since it wasn't a big seller.
 
An HD re-release of the Prime Trilogy honestly seems like a no brainer to me, but I doubt it'll happen since it wasn't a big seller.

It's one of the hardest games to find on Wii and goes for hundreds used. Might be due to a limited run, but is probably somewhat due to its popularity.
 

Sheroking

Member
I would be fine with just a digital HD release of Metroid Prime.

You have to think that, after the Zelda games, that would make the most sense to remake in HD.
 

I'd hope it means motion control will always be implemented in some way, but not neccesarily be the focus. I'd much rather it was something optional as in Ocarina of Time 3D. You could aim with the gyroscope, but you didn't have to if you didn't want to. I quite enjoyed aiming the arrows/slingshot with movement, because I wasn't forced to.

Also, if he meant all Zelda games would be motion controlled, how would that work for the next 3DS game? You'd throw it at a wall aha.
 
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